Thinking About Windows 10 Alternatives

SmokeRngs said:
Actually, I'd be wiling to bet quite a few people would like to know how you do it. You supposedly work at a mega bank. You supposedly have a kick ass gaming rig that you play on. You supposedly have multiple computers around the house as well as messing with tablets and yet you seem to be on here posting all day every day. I know damn good and well there's no way in hell I could possibly do that. In a way I'd say it's relevant due to the fact that I believe you've said you work in IT at a megabank rolling out Win10 to I believe 100,000 systems and use that as the basis for your expertise.
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LOL! I don't have any kids and am constantly in front of computers. Not exactly as big of deal as you may think when you have an uncomplicated life.
 
BulletDust said:
Of course there's differences! How is that even an argument?

The thread topic relates to preferences, not differences.
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No, the thread is about alternatives to Windows 10, the differences in ecosystems is by far the biggest issue with anyone of those alternatives that isn't another version of Windows. The one that multiple people in this thread have pointed out repeatedly.
 
heatlesssun said:
No, the thread is about alternatives to Windows 10, the differences in ecosystems is by far the biggest issue with anyone of those alternatives that isn't another version of Windows. The one that multiple people in this thread have pointed out repeatedly.
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I don't agree, but your entitled to your opinion.

If people want to assume this comment is arrogant, I can assure you that's not it's intention.
 
BulletDust said:
I don't agree, but your entitled to your opinion.

If people want to assume this comment is arrogant, I can assure you that's not it's intention.
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The thread is about Windows 10 alternatives, noting to disagree about on that one. And if one is considering Linux as alternative to it, the biggest problems are going to be around applications. Can you think of anything that would be a bigger stumbling block? And no one here said that everyone would have that problem. It's been conceded time and time again that most basic PC users would probably not have a hard time moving from Windows to Linux. The people with the hardest time are going to be around those who need access to certain applications. And considering the vast number of Windows applications out there without Linux versions, I think it's obvious that this is where the biggest sticking point would be in a Windows to Linux transition on the desktop.

You're to be making a lot more out of what people who aren't seeing it exactly you way have actually said. The only sticking point is that I think you're WAY understating just how big of a deal Windows' software support is. Even if you're one that may not want of need anything Windows specific right now, that can change. Again, not that it would affect most basic users, but there's no way to know at what point that might effect some of them.

If someone wants to run Linux, no one here that you've called biased told them not too or said that they shouldn't. That's their choice. It looks like everyone in this thread gets the gist of the issues around this debate and is doing exactly the thing that works for them in regards to hardware and software choices for desktop needs and wants.
 
heatlesssun said:
The thread is about Windows 10 alternatives, noting to disagree about on that one. And if one is considering Linux as alternative to it, the biggest problems are going to be around applications. Can you think of anything that would be a bigger stumbling block? And no one here said that everyone would have that problem. It's been conceded time and time again that most basic PC users would probably not have a hard time moving from Windows to Linux. The people with the hardest time are going to be around those who need access to certain applications. And considering the vast number of Windows applications out there without Linux versions, I think it's obvious that this is where the biggest sticking point would be in a Windows to Linux transition on the desktop.

You're to be making a lot more out of what people who aren't seeing it exactly you way have actually said. The only sticking point is that I think you're WAY understating just how big of a deal Windows' software support is. Even if you're one that may not want of need anything Windows specific right now, that can change. Again, not that it would affect most basic users, but there's no way to know at what point that might effect some of them.

If someone wants to run Linux, no one here that you've called biased told them not too or said that they shouldn't. That's their choice. It looks like everyone in this thread gets the gist of the issues around this debate and is doing exactly the thing that works for them in regards to hardware and software choices for desktop needs and wants.
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Whatever you want the believe Heatlesssun.
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows has pretty much handled defragging in the background since Windows 7 I believe? Sure, there's a lot of cheaper stuff out that running slow mechanical drive. I doubt any distro of Linux would make those kinds of systems run anywhere near as those based on solid state storage. This is much more about hardware than software.
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heatle SSDs are great and all... but I'm not storing terrabyes of client data on them. If you think a lot of people are, I'm sorry your living in a dream world.

Linux file systems like EXT4 / BtrFS / XFS ect will not fragment unless you are stupid enough to fill every last megabyte of a drive. If I fill a drive to 90% capacity it will NOT fragment. Even if I go back and delete half of that data and copy as much back 20x over. It simply will not fragment as long as I leave that small bit of space on the end.

Yes SSDs have masked some of the faults of the NTFS for the average gaming PC user. I don't deny that... for people dealing with large files I'm sorry very few are running 10+ terrabytes of SSD storage. The bottom line is right now I can pick up a 5TB drive for the price of a 256gb SSD. So sure the SSD is fine for my OS drives perhaps... not for my storage drives. My storage drives like most peoples are still spinning. Until the day comes when I can buy 5 GBs of SSD storage for the same cost that isn't going to change either.
 
ChadD said:
heatle SSDs are great and all... but I'm not storing terrabyes of client data on them. If you think a lot of people are, I'm sorry your living in a dream world.

Linux file systems like EXT4 / BtrFS / XFS ect will not fragment unless you are stupid enough to fill every last megabyte of a drive. If I fill a drive to 90% capacity it will NOT fragment. Even if I go back and delete half of that data and copy as much back 20x over. It simply will not fragment as long as I leave that small bit of space on the end.

Yes SSDs have masked some of the faults of the NTFS for the average gaming PC user. I don't deny that... for people dealing with large files I'm sorry very few are running 10+ terrabytes of SSD storage. The bottom line is right now I can pick up a 5TB drive for the price of a 256gb SSD. So sure the SSD is fine for my OS drives perhaps... not for my storage drives. My storage drives like most peoples are still spinning. Until the day comes when I can buy 5 GBs of SSD storage for the same cost that isn't going to change either.
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Again, vastly exaggerated (NTFS is better than FAT), and almost irrelevant today.

The key Difference:
NTFS - Tends to put files down contiguously close to each other.
EXT4 - Tends to spread files all over the drive.

There are pros and cons to each method.

EXT has more room for files to grow before fragmenting. The can increase in size in still have more room left in their current location.
NTFS has more open Big Contiguous areas for large new files.

NTFS is not as good for a working drive with files changing size all the time, but it is Perfectly fine for big media storage drives.

Why this advantage is largely moot today.

Common layout today (and the one I use) is:

SSD OS/Working drive + Big HDD (media storage).

You have most of your working files that are likely changing in size on your SSD drive where fragmentation is completely irrelevant.

You store your big media files on your big HDDs where these tend to be quite stable in size and don't cause fragmentation.
 
heatlesssun said:
LOL! I just find that last part hilarious because Chad is more pro-desktop Linux than you was pointing alternative software to Photoshop that a macOS and Windows version but no Linux version. And most all of the alternatives you mention have Windows versions.
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heatle... the fact that Linux developers aren't as$holes doesn't make windows better.

If I write a fantastic piece of Linux software, I can in around 10 min compile it for Windows... so the only reason I would keep my Linux software from you was if. 1) it did something that simply didn't apply to you. or 2) I was a jerk.

As I have said many times. With very few exceptions if you are running ANY Free software in Windows... its Linux software. In general people that write software for Linux tend to believe software should be free and usable by everyone. So sure we tend to compile it even for you.

I brought up Affinity... after you for the 20th time said photoshop photoshop photoshop. So yes I pointed out one of the reasons the macs have been selling to developers in higher numbers the last year or so... is in part due to Affinity photo. MacOS has always been popular with developers, and Affinity has made lots of in roads the last year. A large number of professional users of Affinity are using it on a Mac not on Windows.
 
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ChadD said:
As I have said many times. With very few exceptions if you are running ANY Free software in Windows... its Linux software. In general people that write software for Linux tend to believe software should be free and usable by everyone. So sure we tend to compile it even for you.
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I would say, lots of exceptions. Here are my installed defaults/favorites for some categories(definitely not Linux Software):

Media Player software: MPC-BE.
Tax Software(CDN): Studio Tax.
Development Env: Visual Studio Express.
Picture Viewer: Irfanview.
Graphics edit/touch up: Paint.net

I have a ton of little utils for bench-marking and stress testing (like FurMark) that are mostly Windows only. I won't bother to list.


I do also use some software that has Linux Versions, but contrary to popular belief, these did not start on Linux:

Firefox is my Main browser
Handbrake is my main encoder
Libre Office is becoming my main office suite.
 
ChadD said:
heatle... the fact that Linux developers aren't as$holes doesn't make windows better.

If I write a fantastic piece of Linux software, I can in around 10 min compile it for Windows... so the only reason I would keep my Linux software from you was if. 1) it did something that simply didn't apply to you. or 2) I was a jerk.
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3) Or you didn't want many to use your desktop software if you were targeting only Linux user. And it's not really Linux software, it's cross platform.

ChadD said:
As I have said many times. With very few exceptions if you are running ANY Free software in Windows... its Linux software.
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There's TONS of free Windows only software out there.

ChadD said:
In general people that write software for Linux tend to believe software should be free and usable by everyone. So sure we tend to compile it even for you.
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And that's great but even free costs, at least time to the developers. Anything I use much I will throw some money to, I've given to GIMP and LibreOffice.

ChadD said:
I brought up Affinity... after you for the 20th time said photoshop photoshop photoshop. So yes I pointed out one of the reasons the macs have been selling to developers in higher numbers the last year or so... is in part due to Affinity photo. MacOS has always been popular with developers, and Affinity has made lots of in roads the last year. A large number of professional users of Affinity are using it on a Mac not on Windows.
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Affinity one the Mac came out two years ago and just last summer on Windows. Looking at their blog, a Windows version was about the most heavily asked for thing even when they were in beta on the Mac.
 
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