Calculator comes from the store, MSPaint didn't go anywhere due to the backlash MS received on removing it and the taskmanager is still there. The start menu is there, just not in a good form. I'll give you that one. I don't know anything about Linux as I haven't used it in years. Every time I have, its been far from a decent experience.
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Theoretical maximum specs for AMD cpu based platform under Windows 7
- Thread starter spacedrone808
- Start date
Calculator comes from the store, MSPaint didn't go anywhere due to the backlash MS received on removing it and the taskmanager is still there. The start menu is there, just not in a good form. I'll give you that one. I don't know anything about Linux as I haven't used it in years. Every time I have, its been far from a decent experience.
Hagrid
[H]F Junkie
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Really? Linux is just is easy as windows. Years ago I set up linux computers to save money in apartment business centers for the residents. I had no problems and
there were some people who probably could not turn on a computer. I just had the icons on the desktop screen.
IdiotInCharge
NVIDIA SHILL
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This depends entirely on what you're trying to do, and how far down the rabbit hole you are willing to go.
The best way to compare them is 'different', and that's the same from one distro and DE to another, too. Make a list of stuff that an enthusiast would need to install and be able to do on a computer, and you'll run into stuff that is not 'easy' on Linux pretty quick relative to any modern Windows version.
The year of the Linux desktop is not 2019.
I am not sure who changed it though, I can't say for certain it was a Microsoft change or an nVidia/AMD driver change I just don't have access to any hardware sufficiently old to test it.
Apart for the CPU USB driver who needs a simple hack of the AMD drivers, Ryzen 3000 CPU, including 3900X seem to run fine on Windows 7 Pro. This is great.
Most interesting among micro-ATX motherboards seem to be Asus 450M TUF series (Pro and Plus) as they should both handle without problems all the current needed on the future 3950X.
Most interesting among micro-ATX motherboards seem to be Asus 450M TUF series (Pro and Plus) as they should both handle without problems all the current needed on the future 3950X.
spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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I found another contender for top level CPU on Windows 7 but that is not from AMD.
Intel recently drop of prices for yet to come Cascade Lake - X line on Desktop and supposedly server/workstation Xeon.
You can get the full speed 18c/36t 4 channel on X299 chipset for less than 1000$ and you can get the same Xeon for 1300$ and C422 motherboard also on LGA 2066 socket (you can find great ones at less than 500$). The big thing with C422 and X299 chipsets is that they are old enough so you could find from some motherboard manufacturer or Intel all the chipset drivers needed for Windows 7 64 bit. Mind that 7 Pro or Ultimate are recommended (Home has some limitations). Also the Xeon plateform permits registered ECC RAM, which is much current and less expensive than Unbuffered ECC and very close to non ECC, but there are up to 128GB RAM RDIMM you can easily find on internet. However Windows 7 Pro is limited to 192GB, but that could be 6x32GB (nevermind not feeding one channel RAM).
This would need to be tested but I am quite sure this is ok, with less fuss than any Ryzen configuration. the C422 drivers for Windows 7 can be found at Gigabyte old C422 motherboard support (2017).
Intel recently drop of prices for yet to come Cascade Lake - X line on Desktop and supposedly server/workstation Xeon.
You can get the full speed 18c/36t 4 channel on X299 chipset for less than 1000$ and you can get the same Xeon for 1300$ and C422 motherboard also on LGA 2066 socket (you can find great ones at less than 500$). The big thing with C422 and X299 chipsets is that they are old enough so you could find from some motherboard manufacturer or Intel all the chipset drivers needed for Windows 7 64 bit. Mind that 7 Pro or Ultimate are recommended (Home has some limitations). Also the Xeon plateform permits registered ECC RAM, which is much current and less expensive than Unbuffered ECC and very close to non ECC, but there are up to 128GB RAM RDIMM you can easily find on internet. However Windows 7 Pro is limited to 192GB, but that could be 6x32GB (nevermind not feeding one channel RAM).
This would need to be tested but I am quite sure this is ok, with less fuss than any Ryzen configuration. the C422 drivers for Windows 7 can be found at Gigabyte old C422 motherboard support (2017).
spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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Why?
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i9-7980XE-vs-AMD-Ryzen-9-3900X/m352013vs4044
3rd gen TR will crash even more expensive intel cpu's.
Less fuss - agree.
Less performance and anyway priceyer. This is greedy intel
So, not interested even with discount.
As for ram : 192Gb is very good reserve.
Currently while 3d rendering i am using around 48Gb out of 64Gb. So 128Gb will be 100% sufficient in future.
Love capabilities of win7!
Yes but will Threadripper 3 support Windows 7 when there are problems with Threadripper 2 ? Mind that Threadripper 3 will be based from the beginning on a new chipset, TRX 40. And high level TR above 32 cores will be close to Epyc.Why?
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i9-7980XE-vs-AMD-Ryzen-9-3900X/m352013vs4044
3rd gen TR will crash even more expensive intel cpu's.
Less fuss - agree.
Less performance and anyway priceyer. This is greedy intel
So, not interested even with discount.
As for ram : 192Gb is very good reserve.
Currently while 3d rendering i am using around 48Gb out of 64Gb. So 128Gb will be 100% sufficient in future.
Love capabilities of win7!
Only alternative quite safe is Threadripper 1 aka 1950X. But there is no huge difference left in price. New Xeon who is quite the same renamed previous line, runs faster than previous line and costs one third of the price (On HEDT i9 X299 line it's only half the price).
I was using 64GB PC on BIM works (buildings) but some works may need 128GB. The difference on the last project is very meaningfull and crashes from time to time on the 64GB PC. However I still can open and watch the project on a 16Gb laptop, even make some changes, but the efficiency is not nearly on par.
So modern workstations for real 3D CAD need those 128Gb and even more will be helpful.
Working with 64GB limitation is starting to look unprofessional, and I wouldn't have said that maybe 6 months ago, but this is real now. I also see my partners upgrading to huge workstations. This is the way now. And mind that I'm staying on Windows 7 Pro which is okay for me and my software for now, and maybe I'll go Linux, trying to escape Windows 10.
If someone used BIM version of Bricscad and has some returns and would be glad to share the experience... Bricscad BIM suite works on Linux.
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spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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Currently i am running 1950x without any problems. No point to switch to intel.
But really interested in TR2 and TR3. It would be very neat if some one shares his experience with Windows 7...
But really interested in TR2 and TR3. It would be very neat if some one shares his experience with Windows 7...
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I don't know what stops people from installing W7 on TR 2. If you install by the book with PS keyboard/mouse (the motherboard must support) from a DVD on sata and sata SSD/hard drive including raid 1 mode, it should work just fine. People have experienced problems with PCIe 3.0 and so need to slow in BIOS to PCIe 2.0 which is fine with all GPU even the best. Now I bet the problems are for people using exclusively usb key to install from scratch and also want to install on NVMe SSD directly.
pendragon1
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I actually ran into that usb issue on a a320 board. clients old hdd was left as a secondary for storage, something caused the bios to pick it instead of the nvme drive as the boot device. it fired right up into her old windows 7 and nothing worked, not even the usb2 ports.
Furious_Styles
Supreme [H]ardness
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We will eventually. Currently using a W7 install from several years ago on my desktop. No problems with multiple hardware changes along the way. Luckily DX12 has been such a lackluster update that there's been no compelling reason to switch since I mostly use my desktop to game.
spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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100%, No reason to switch, i am satisfied with 1950x performance.
3950X on B450 in Ncase M1 on air .
https://postimg.cc/H81ZxKyr
Zero testing, just updated BIOS & drivers (some missing USB one) and replaced CPU, in BIOS it sits over 10C lower than 1700X...
.https://postimg.cc/H81ZxKyr
Zero testing, just updated BIOS & drivers (some missing USB one) and replaced CPU, in BIOS it sits over 10C lower than 1700X...
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spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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Can't enlarge picture.3950X on B450 in Ncase M1 on air
View attachment 203285
Zero testing, just updated BIOS & drivers (some missing USB one) and replaced CPU, in BIOS it sits over 10C lower than 1700X...
Axm77 thanks for sharing!
Please keep us updated regarding the progress.
ps i suppose that performance is a tad bit better than 1950x?
Well, I have bad and good news. Bad news is, motherboard on previous screen shot crap out with new BIOSes for 3000 series. Basically it "killed" my W7 installation after couple restarts, but W7 wasn't alone: same way it treats W10, so consensus is Asrock B450 ITX motherboard can't handle 3000 series, and I'm not alone with this problem.
After that I got Gigabyte X570 and to my supprise, with some help I was able to install W7 on NVMe drive with all USB working. Only exception is Intel WIFI/BT M.2 card, but I don't like them anyway (always have some problem with BT - not sure it is Intel specific or problem with newer BT revisions and my stuff).
After that I got Gigabyte X570 and to my supprise, with some help I was able to install W7 on NVMe drive with all USB working
. Only exception is Intel WIFI/BT M.2 card, but I don't like them anyway (always have some problem with BT - not sure it is Intel specific or problem with newer BT revisions and my stuff).
spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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Neatttoooo!! AXm77 thank you so much for sharing. For eg. BT/WiFi do not play any role for me, so everything is looks like up!Well, I have bad and good news. Bad news is, motherboard on previous screen shot crap out with new BIOSes for 3000 series. Basically it "killed" my W7 installation after couple restarts, but W7 wasn't alone: same way it treats W10, so consensus is Asrock B450 ITX motherboard can't handle 3000 series, and I'm not alone with this problem.
After that I got Gigabyte X570 and to my supprise, with some help I was able to install W7 on NVMe drive with all USB working
View attachment 208854
I wonder is there any possibility to run TR3 series cpus? This will be God's gift, if so.
Why?
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i9-7980XE-vs-AMD-Ryzen-9-3900X/m352013vs4044
3rd gen TR will crash even more expensive intel cpu's.
Less fuss - agree.
Less performance and anyway priceyer. This is greedy intel
So, not interested even with discount.
As for ram : 192Gb is very good reserve.
Currently while 3d rendering i am using around 48Gb out of 64Gb. So 128Gb will be 100% sufficient in future.
Love capabilities of win7!
I don't know why anyone references that site. It's data is basically trash. Also, the 7980XE isn't the same thing as a 9980XE or 10980XE, which have higher clocks and much more overclocking headroom. You have to delid the 7980XE and even then, they won't clock like their newer counterparts. Also, the 10980XE crushes a 3900X when overclocked. In fact, the 10980XE can beat a Ryzen 9 3950X most of the time when clocked high enough.
I wouldn't make any bets on getting Windows 7 to install on a TRX40 motherboard with a third generation Threadripper. I'm not sure I'd want to see that either. Windows 7 doesn't have the scheduler improvements that Windows 10 has in later builds. There will certainly be issues installing the OS on an NVMe drive. As for your partners upgrading to huge workstations, well sticking to Windows 7 is starting to be a huge limitation. I'm not even sure why you'd want to stick to an OS after it goes EOL for production work either. I sure as hell wouldn't.
Well, except that Intel's offerings are faster than the 1st generation Threadrippers when comparing like for like core counts. The 1950X also has weak performance in many applications. The same is true of the 2nd generation CPU's. 2nd generation Threadrippers are barely any faster than their first gen counterparts. They got a modest boost in clocks. Basically, they can clock to 4.2GHz instead of around 4.1GHz. Boost clocks on some models go to 4.3GHz. In contrast, Intel's HEDT parts don't have the same performance penalties running desktop applications and games that TR1 and 2 do. Be happy with what you have, fine but there is a point to switching to Intel. If you buy high end enough, it would be an upgrade for you.
I'm not recommending Intel BTW. I'd stick to AMD's X570 and a Ryzen 9 3950X or go up to TRX40 and a Threadripper 3960X for a little bit more. You'll either get close to Intel's performance with a ton of money and power saved, or spend more money to save power and gain even more performance.
spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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Not recommending? Why are you speak about them so much? Intel and Win 10 are trash things to work with Blender. Win 10 is about 20% slower then Win 7 in renderings. And intel is an overpriced cr#p from the past.
I was making a point in reference to your comment.
This is an interesting point. It seems the scheduler on Windows 7 is okay and that it is only Windows 10 and until 1903 update, that has a scheduler bug. So, as long as you can get a CPU with more than 16 cores running on W7 pro or Ultimate, it may work. This is really something to be tested. There may be some people with a dual Xeon E5-2697 (2x14 cores) and Windows 7 Pro/Ultimate who could test.
One thing that 1903 and 1909 have is that they are now aware of Ryzen's design topology. The goal being that they confine tasks to a single CCD unless absolutely necessary to move to the next one. This helps reduce the performance / latency penalties that occur when crossing CCD's. With 1st and 2nd generation CPU's, it tries to limit threads to single CCX's where possible for the same reason. CPPC2 is also designed to allow the CPU's to perform better in burst tasks that see quick spikes in CPU utilization. This effects application opening speeds and things like that.
That's a little detail.Up to 16 core everything's okay, but on those after 16, the OS is going to make continuous task permutations on the remaining cores which will be busy with those permutations. This is also happening when using Windows on Linux and the other way round with too many cores. There is a youtube channel and anandtech describing what they think is the problem (a bug). But they only tested on Windows 10. Nothing to do with CCX and Ryzen architecture. Problem is that it's difficult to test on Windows 7 with officially supported CPU but this has never been brought to attention on Windows 7 pro. Also Windows 7 Pro is very difficult to install on Threadripper with Bioses supporting Threadripper 2000 series, clearly unsupported at BIOS level on some boards when Threadripper 2000 support has been introduced.
Randall Stephens
[H]ard|Gawd
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I installed win7 on my 3900x this weekend. I haven't done the CPU USB driver fix yet, but using a ps2 keyboard, dvd drive, and mechanical hard drive, it was the easiest windows install I've ever done. I ran a quick blender run and results seem to be in line with the windows 10 reviews. Updated Bios on my X470 strix f to the 5220.
Kind a no brainer here, including 3950X. But what about 3960X, 3970X and TRX40. This would be interesting on Windows 7. Just knowing the 16 cor/32threads limitation on performance on W10 up to 1903 is not present in W7 Pro/Ulitmate would be great news.
Bit late to party komrades due to build delays ( 6X noctua fans/gpu etc) . I confirm TR2 2950X working perfectly on Win7/Sp1 with few select updates. Initial tests with cinema 4d, blender, reaper confirmed with solid stability.
Many thanks to spacedrone808,Axm77,Jandor and especially the naysayers for keeping our fight alive
1) Threadripper 2950X (slight undervolt for testing)
2) Asrock x399 Taichi bios P3.50
3) Gskill 128GB RAM
4) Aorus 1080Ti ( unsure of 2080Ti stability with win7, one thing at a time)
5) SATA, nvme, HDD approx 30TB ( 2 more nvme slots are still available for testing)
6) Corsair 1000W PSU
3) For "Unsupported hardware fix" :
https://github.com/zeffy/wufuc
4) Through "hosts" file block MS update servers :
https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows/
5)Regarding MS updates please refer to sister thread:
https://hardforum.com/threads/threadripper-and-windows-7.1947921/page-3#post-1043404268
6) SHA256 signing: More and more applications are demanding SHA256 driver signing e.g. HWINFO requiring KB3033929 and this particular KB refuses to install/infinite boot loops on existing Win 7 install.
1) https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...ry-availability-of-sha-2-code-signing-support
2) https://www.computerworld.com/artic...rors-80004005-800b0100-80070002-80070005.html
The suggested fix is try to install KB3033929 as the first manual update on a fresh Win 7 installation.
https://www.sevenforums.com/windows-updates-activation/403863-kb-3033929-kb-3035131-issue.html
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com...dism-to-install-a-hotfix-from-within-windows/
7) Will test KB3033929 on fresh Win 7 install shortly
Cheers.
Many thanks to spacedrone808,Axm77,Jandor and especially the naysayers for keeping our fight alive
1) Threadripper 2950X (slight undervolt for testing)
2) Asrock x399 Taichi bios P3.50
3) Gskill 128GB RAM
4) Aorus 1080Ti ( unsure of 2080Ti stability with win7, one thing at a time
)5) SATA, nvme, HDD approx 30TB ( 2 more nvme slots are still available for testing)
6) Corsair 1000W PSU
3) For "Unsupported hardware fix" :
https://github.com/zeffy/wufuc
4) Through "hosts" file block MS update servers :
https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows/
5)Regarding MS updates please refer to sister thread:
https://hardforum.com/threads/threadripper-and-windows-7.1947921/page-3#post-1043404268
6) SHA256 signing: More and more applications are demanding SHA256 driver signing e.g. HWINFO requiring KB3033929 and this particular KB refuses to install/infinite boot loops on existing Win 7 install.
1) https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...ry-availability-of-sha-2-code-signing-support
2) https://www.computerworld.com/artic...rors-80004005-800b0100-80070002-80070005.html
The suggested fix is try to install KB3033929 as the first manual update on a fresh Win 7 installation.
https://www.sevenforums.com/windows-updates-activation/403863-kb-3033929-kb-3035131-issue.html
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com...dism-to-install-a-hotfix-from-within-windows/
7) Will test KB3033929 on fresh Win 7 install shortly
Cheers.
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cyklondx
Limp Gawd
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nvme raid0 is possible; and been done on even older systems like XP using asmedia's asm2824 switch on the pci-e slot to connect 2 - 4 chips, and run them in raid0, raid1.
U2 controller pci-e card can also be confirmed since it contains drivers for win7, and win2008.
msi's pro carbon x470 board works without any issue with win7 -> on baremetal, or in kvm. nvme raid is also possible with pci-e card 2x 4x nvme, or internal m.2 + pci-e 1x 4x nvme.
spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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Thanks for providing valuable information.
Btw, don't know about SHA256 problem.
Jan 14 is coming - stay strong! Hope esu will keep os afloat.
spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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So now you have K18I like your CPU-Z screen: AMD K17
)
spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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Fact is that if you don't use your W7 PC to run an Internet server or for Internet browsing, you really don't need those security updates. In fact you mostly need Windows 7 because there is some expensive software or some peculiar software better on Windows 7 or not made anymore, or for some reason you also need Windows XP virtualization that is implemented on Pro and Ultimate. Also Antivirus updates like with Antivir that still run on Vista 64 now, and a well configured Comodo Firewall and also advanced filtering through hosts.ini would make you much safer than counting on security updates from Microsoft. I would also be very doubtful on getting those updates as Microsoft "believes" there is no AMD Zen CPU on this service.
So this EOL thing is not EOL at all, just continuation !
I am still very doubtful that the Windows 7 Pro kernel had any limitation on the 16 core support like Windows 10 had until 1909. Mind that this limitation wasn't very easy to see until the Threadripper WX2990 came out. So, my opinion is that it is very possible that WIndows 7 could handle very well the 32 cores of a 3970X, provided the TRX40 platefrom could run on Windows 7 using standard AMD drivers and probably needing to downgrade PCIe 4 to 3 ou 2.0. Maybe a hack for USB CPU like on Ryzen 3000 would be necessary.
spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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Will definitely try the edge, later on.
Well, you are wrong, look like the bug is heritage of multi-socket HCC Xeons, but you can easly fight it with CorePrio.
@spacedrone808 yes you can install Win7 on WX (2970 tested) Threadrippers.
spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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AXm77! You rule! Thanks mate!
I wonder if it is possible on 64 cores threadrippers?
I wonder if there is something that prevents the TRX 40 chipset and the 3990X from running on W7 Pro.
spacedrone808
Limp Gawd
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+1