The Road to PS5 - Deep Dive into PlayStation 5's system architecture

HockeyJon

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That's kinda why I think it will all come down to price. There were news reports that Sony was having trouble getting the price of the PS5 down to $500 with just parts alone costing around $450. Not seeing how Microsoft can get the Xbox Series X down that low unless they are willing to take a substantial initial loss. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-with-playstation-5-price-due-to-costly-parts)
It’s entirely possible that’s the case. It wouldn’t be the first time MS sold Xbox hardware at a loss to move software.
 

cybereality

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I didn't watch the whole talk. But did Sony mention if PS4 titles would be enhanced by playing on PS5?

I've got a nice collection of PS4 games I never played, would be cool if they ran at like 60fps and full 1080p.
 

Flogger23m

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If I go all Ebay then I'd buy used GPU's like a GTX 1070 or a Vega 56. My PC is comprised of mostly used parts off Ebay. The 2700X was $180 off Ebay used...
And you can buy used consoles off ebay to, doesn't mean you can regularly get those prices. Plus they're used, so the quality from item to item isn't the game, lack of warranty. Or was used by someone who was a heavy smoker. I received an item like that (not a PC part) and it fucking stunk. Comparing used to new is absolutely moronic.

But ebay can have some good deals. A few years back you could easily grab a new Xbox One S for $178-183 frequently. Cheapest I saw it was $163 shipped before taxes from an authorized Microsoft seller (they had sold around 20,000 of the consoles). GPU deals in general don't seem to be as good on ebay though. At that price I was tempted, figured the controller is worth $40 at least, it would be like paying $135 for a console. Thankfully Halo can to PC, so that killed half my desire to own an Xbox.
 

cybereality

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I think there are good reasons to play on PC, but price is not one of them. For me, I like tinkering with machines, building the hardware myself, tweaking thing like I want, and getting weird stuff working.

Like one time I wanted to play an old Windows 3.11 game I got. So I loaded DOSBox under Windows Vista, then installed the real Win 3.11 and was able to play the game. Fun stuff like that will never work on console (without hacks).
 

Mylex

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I just like that the consoles are both beefing the specs up, but I still think most developers are going to continue being lazy shits and use the extra power as an excuse to not need to optimize their games. Most are just greedy and like to ship broken a pos just to hit a ship date knowing they will only fix some things based on the level of complaints.
 

Verge

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I just like that the consoles are both beefing the specs up, but I still think most developers are going to continue being lazy shits and use the extra power as an excuse to not need to optimize their games. Most are just greedy and like to ship broken a pos just to hit a ship date knowing they will only fix some things based on the level of complaints.
The last of us
horizon zero dawn
deaths stranding
uncharted 4


I found no bugs... which games are you referring to exactly?
 

vegeta535

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I just like that the consoles are both beefing the specs up, but I still think most developers are going to continue being lazy shits and use the extra power as an excuse to not need to optimize their games. Most are just greedy and like to ship broken a pos just to hit a ship date knowing they will only fix some things based on the level of complaints.
It is not the developers fault most the time. It is time crunches set by publishers to make there quarterly numbers and not giving developers time to do a proper QA job.
 

Mylex

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Take your pick of most games from Ubisoft, Bethesda, EA or insert any AAA game with day 1 patches that are almost as big as the original game. My comment is just that most development studios don't optimize their stuff. A large amount don't even bother putting as much time QA testing because of the I can fix it in post attitude.
 

odditory

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Take your pick of most games from Ubisoft, Bethesda, EA or insert any AAA game with day 1 patches that are almost as big as the original game. My comment is just that most development studios don't optimize their stuff. A large amount don't even bother putting as much time QA testing because of the I can fix it in post attitude.
You're not wrong. I've been to a few studios. Most of these guys look like the extended family of Jack Black; they show up in pajamas, they get coffee and walk around saying hi to everybody for two hours and maybe talk about something they saw on Reddit, and then they go home. This is the life of a game developer.
 

Derangel

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Take your pick of most games from Ubisoft, Bethesda, EA or insert any AAA game with day 1 patches that are almost as big as the original game. My comment is just that most development studios don't optimize their stuff. A large amount don't even bother putting as much time QA testing because of the I can fix it in post attitude.
Yes, how dare those lazy developers not make a perfect game. I mean it's not like AAA developers are working 100+ hour weeks, under constant stress, under constant threat of losing their jobs, have the constant knowledge that as soon as the project is over they're out of work, are forced to work so hard they have to get hospitalized. The nerve of those lazy people. They should just work harder.

PS: This was obviously sarcasm, because I know some of you would miss it.
 

Mylex

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Yes, how dare those lazy developers not make a perfect game. I mean it's not like AAA developers are working 100+ hour weeks, under constant stress, under constant threat of losing their jobs, have the constant knowledge that as soon as the project is over they're out of work, are forced to work so hard they have to get hospitalized. The nerve of those lazy people. They should just work harder.

PS: This was obviously sarcasm, because I know some of you would miss it.
This is why we get shit storms like Anthem or Fallout 76 or the you can bet its going to run like crap initially version of Assassins Creed, its ok to say that the game is not done and we will release it when it's ready. In most other lines of work you wont get a pass for doing a piss poor job because you had to work over time. Because I was rushed or busy is still an excuse point blank. The people making the decisions to forgo testing and the optimizing of their code/ and or engines arent doing us any favors.


And yes even while working 100+ hours a week you can be lazy if you just take to the short way or cut corners just to be done.
 
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Derangel

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This is why we get shit storms like Anthem or Fallout 76 or the you can bet its going to run like crap initially version of Assassins Creed, its ok to say that the game is not done and we will release it when it's ready. In most other lines of work you wont get a pass for doing a piss poor job because you had to work over time. Because I was rushed or busy is still an excuse point blank. The people making the decisions to forgo testing and the optimizing of their code/ and or engines arent doing us any favors.


And yes even while working 100+ hours a week you can be lazy if you just take to the short way or cut corners just to be done.
You act as if the developers have a say in the matter. Point the blame stick at the fucking publishers, not the overworked people that are in no condition to do their best job.
 

Red Falcon

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No mention of enhancements. They're not even committing to all PS4 games working.
Of course not, why would they do that when they can resell the same games as "remastered editions" which will just be the same game, only running at 60fps.
If it were Bloodborne, though, I would buy it again for 60fps. :D
 

Mylex

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You act as if the developers have a say in the matter. Point the blame stick at the fucking publishers, not the overworked people that are in no condition to do their best job.
No, I act as if its all their(top to bottom) fault and ours for still giving them a pass. Its called integrity they know its lacking and either cave or just don't care enough.
 

Revdarian

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Just a FYI, from Microsoft renders of their own soc the PS5 and the XSX has the same amount of RBE units in charge of rasterization, these are separate from the CUs, so it is accurate to say that the XSX has more shading power (including RT) but the ps5 has more rasterization power, the final power balance may be slightly less than the 20% apparent difference in the end, but I don't think it will close the gap enough.

A thing pointed by developers is that due to the streamlining of the ssd solution for the ps5 its benefits are on areas beyond the perceived 2x bandwidth, what this will mean on third-party is something like a setting that in ps5 you can diminish the preloaded assets cache size and thus with the extra memory load higher level assets for further objects. Again this won't be a performance parity thing but a trade off of sorts between the two consoles.


As I say this I only hope to actually see this in play, the implications could mean slightly more effects on the XSX VS slightly more high lvl assets on the ps5, the resolution difference may be lesser than 20% ( let's say 1970p VS 2160p). Throw the buckets of salt at the maybes everywhere.
 

cybereality

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Yeah, I've seen speed runs, but they usually exploit hard to find bugs. Sometimes bugs that stayed hidden for years.
 

cybereality

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sabrewolf732

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This is why we get shit storms like Anthem or Fallout 76 or the you can bet its going to run like crap initially version of Assassins Creed, its ok to say that the game is not done and we will release it when it's ready. In most other lines of work you wont get a pass for doing a piss poor job because you had to work over time. Because I was rushed or busy is still an excuse point blank. The people making the decisions to forgo testing and the optimizing of their code/ and or engines arent doing us any favors.


And yes even while working 100+ hours a week you can be lazy if you just take to the short way or cut corners just to be done.
Jesus, the sense of entitlement.

"no one cares if you work 100 hours, work harder"

You're blaming the wrong person, as stated above by Derangel .
 

Mylex

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Jesus, the sense of entitlement.

"no one cares if you work 100 hours, work harder"

You're blaming the wrong person, as stated above by Derangel .
Not entitled at all, just pointing out the facts. If you cut corners that is by the definition of being lazy. Another fact it is possible to be on the clock or at work for 100 hours and still not really work, once again being lazy. Give them all the excuses you would like and I will still see it the same. Saying EA, Ubisoft and the like tend to put out shit games with lazy ass QA and alot of the time terrible optimization is not entitled.
 

Derangel

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Not entitled at all, just pointing out the facts. If you cut corners that is by the definition of being lazy. Another fact it is possible to be on the clock or at work for 100 hours and still not really work, once again being lazy. Give them all the excuses you would like and I will still see it the same. Saying EA, Ubisoft and the like tend to put out shit games with lazy ass QA and alot of the time terrible optimization is not entitled.
They cut corners because they're forced to in order to meet strict deadlines. Stop pretending that rank and file devs have a say in release dates or how long they're allowed to QA a game. You act like people in their position are in the physical and mental shape to produce their best work day in and day out. They're not, not even close. Humans that get overworked get sloppy, they're not able to keep up the same pace or quality when they're suffering from extreme stress and sleep deprivation. It is not the fault of the rank and file developers that shit is buggy or poorly QA'd. I'd imagine most studios have a big QA list before a game goes out the door but demands from above their heads don't give them time to fix it.
 

Verge

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Speed runs use bugs to make things go faster. They even made animations showing the hilarity of these bugs.
I'm not watching that, and i'm not watching people endlessly play the same game over and over trying to be faster. That's quite stupid. The person i responded to said there was buggy software, i asked for which titles and i've been provided none.

Fucking speedrunning is a strawman, it has little to nothing to do with my arguement, logic, point, direction, or anything really in my cognitive thought process.
 

harmattan

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...

After watching Digital Foundry’s assessment the TFLOPs might not be such a huge issue. I guess there is some validity to higher clock rates and the sheer amount of SSD speed and I/O improvements may make the overall experience better.

I still don’t really understand the Boost rates, I like MSs approach there but they said it’ll be fine.

Their I/O stuff looks really impressive.
If you think I/O improvements and SSD transfer speeds are going to in any way make up for a notable lack of raw GPU horsepower compared to XSX when it comes to rendering, I have a magic 2MB of SDRAM (or a new DirectX version), or a "cell" processor etc., etc. to sell you. It may speed up load times, but saying SSD speeds is going to help in-game FPS is pure marketing drivel.

I'm no Xbox fan (don't like their exclusives, don't like their prior attempts to force always-on DRM, detest their rushed QC), but they look to have Sony squarely beat in the performance department this round.
 

Mylex

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They cut corners because they're forced to in order to meet strict deadlines. Stop pretending that rank and file devs have a say in release dates or how long they're allowed to QA a game. You act like people in their position are in the physical and mental shape to produce their best work day in and day out. They're not, not even close. Humans that get overworked get sloppy, they're not able to keep up the same pace or quality when they're suffering from extreme stress and sleep deprivation. It is not the fault of the rank and file developers that shit is buggy or poorly QA'd. I'd imagine most studios have a big QA list before a game goes out the door but demands from above their heads don't give them time to fix it.
And that just makes it all right and acceptable, got it.
 

Mylex

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I'm not watching that, and i'm not watching people endlessly play the same game over and over trying to be faster. That's quite stupid. The person i responded to said there was buggy software, i asked for which titles and i've been provided none.

Fucking speedrunning is a strawman, it has little to nothing to do with my arguement, logic, point, direction, or anything really in my cognitive thought process.
Oh were you wanting for someone to do a search for you? Anthem bricked some ps4s on launch others it just caused it to get in a boot loop. The performance patch for Control on launch, the Witcher 3 and Skyrim required patches to allow quest progression. Fallout 4 also had patches for quest progression. Hell the division 2 has missions and bounty's that don't work, gear and skills that are bugged also with the developer Ubisoft acknowledging it and telling players it will get to it later. If you really wanted to know it's easy to find.
 

Mylex

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Where the fuck did I say it was alright? I said to point the blame where it belongs, which is not the rank and file developers that have no control over this shit.
Even the rank and file as you say bares some weight. Yes leads, publishers and people that probably haven't touch code set the process but you don't have to work for a company that puts you in that position. Find a job at a different studio... until then since you are willing to cut the corners they order you to do you are lazy. Its called integrity, there are studio's that are willing to say its not done so we will push the release back in order to put out a better product. Find a job that meets all your requirements takes effort if you are one of those people that say "I'm going to stay here doing something I don't agree with because bills" just reinforces that you are lazy.
 

Derangel

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Even the rank and file as you say bares some weight. Yes leads, publishers and people that probably haven't touch code set the process but you don't have to work for a company that puts you in that position. Find a job at a different studio... until then since you are willing to cut the corners they order you to do you are lazy. Its called integrity, there are studio's that are willing to say its not done so we will push the release back in order to put out a better product. Find a job that meets all your requirements takes effort if you are one of those people that say "I'm going to stay here doing something I don't agree with because bills" just reinforces that you are lazy.
"Find another job" is shit advice. EVERY AAA studio is like that. There is not a single one out there that doesn't have conditions like I described, or worse. Also, leaving a position mid-development is very bad because you will no longer get a spot in the credits of a game, which is the only way to prove you actually worked on a game. Being able to say "I worked on these games" is vital in the industry as it shows experience and knowledge. Beyond that, most people working on games are temp workers. They finish the job and get fired, having to hope they can find another job at another studio for a few months/years before doing it again.
 

Mylex

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"Find another job" is shit advice. EVERY AAA studio is like that. There is not a single one out there that doesn't have conditions like I described, or worse. Also, leaving a position mid-development is very bad because you will no longer get a spot in the credits of a game, which is the only way to prove you actually worked on a game. Being able to say "I worked on these games" is vital in the industry as it shows experience and knowledge. Beyond that, most people working on games are temp workers. They finish the job and get fired, having to hope they can find another job at another studio for a few months/years before doing it again.
You act like find another job is not an option. It is they choose to stay there if they don't want to remove themselves from that situation they don't get to cry poor me. At least I guess the entitled people like myself refuse to work in conditions that I don't agree with, I play games to relax my brain around my two fulltime jobs and having me be your free beta tester isn't ok. Following orders so that the product you get to say you worked on but was released as a pos then I feel bad for your lack of self respect.
 

Derangel

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You act like find another job is not an option. It is they choose to stay there if they don't want to remove themselves from that situation they don't get to cry poor me. At least I guess the entitled people like myself refuse to work in conditions that I don't agree with, I play games to relax my brain around my two fulltime jobs and having me be your free beta tester isn't ok. Following orders so that the product you get to say you worked on but was released as a pos then I feel bad for your lack of self respect.
You act like upping and leaving a job is an option for most people, especially in expensive cities where most of these studios are. Most people in this country work at jobs they hate because it pays bills and going without a job and without money is not a viable option.
 

Red Falcon

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You act like upping and leaving a job is an option for most people, especially in expensive cities where most of these studios are. Most people in this country work at jobs they hate because it pays bills and going without a job and without money is not a viable option.
Exactly, the real world doesn't operate like that.
Unless that person has loads of cash on hand and can live on nothing while trying to find a new job, that isn't even remotely a reality for the majority of any workers out there, let alone game/software programmers and designers.
 

Flogger23m

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You act like upping and leaving a job is an option for most people, especially in expensive cities where most of these studios are. Most people in this country work at jobs they hate because it pays bills and going without a job and without money is not a viable option.
And moving from say, MA to CA or NC isn't exactly super easy. Easier than moving to a new country, but can be a massive headache.
 

DukenukemX

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I'm not watching that, and i'm not watching people endlessly play the same game over and over trying to be faster. That's quite stupid. The person i responded to said there was buggy software, i asked for which titles and i've been provided none.

Fucking speedrunning is a strawman, it has little to nothing to do with my arguement, logic, point, direction, or anything really in my cognitive thought process.
The speedrun itself isn't what's important but the methods people employ. Games have bugs and that includes console games. Just because you don't aknowledge speedruns doesn't mean the bugs that people use don't exist. Here's an episode of GameGrumps where they used a pause jump bug with Knuckles to infinitely jump as high as they want. Not a speed run just GameGrumps playing Sonic Boom.

 

deruberhanyok

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this thread is hilarious. You guys are all making the same arguments at each other over and over and over again like you think you’ll be able to get anyone to change their mind.

this is [H]. The userbase here will generally prefer pc gaming. they bought 980tis and sold those to pay for 1080tis and sold those for 2080tis and they’ll sell those for 3080tis (or whatever). We build PCs like it’s second nature.

Everyone arguing consoles are a better value has to understand: a list of parts from pc part picker, a trip to micro center, RGB fans, reading a half dozen power supply reviews, wringing of hands over whether the gpu will fit in the case you really like... this is all normal for [H]. You will never be able to convince them otherwise. We get addicted to spending the cost of a console on a new gpu every year. Sometimes twice a year. We think it’s reasonable.

and everyone arguing for PCs needs to understand: some people just want to go to Best Buy and get a damn PlayStation. They don’t want a steam account, gog account, Bethesda account, driver updates, variable refresh rates, ray tracing, they don’t care about 900p vs 1080p, 4K or hdr, they just want to play some games without having to upgrade their video card every year.

but neither side will ever really acknowledge it, so you just keep going in circles.
 

Derangel

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this thread is hilarious. You guys are all making the same arguments at each other over and over and over again like you think you’ll be able to get anyone to change their mind.

this is [H]. The userbase here will generally prefer pc gaming. they bought 980tis and sold those to pay for 1080tis and sold those for 2080tis and they’ll sell those for 3080tis (or whatever). We build PCs like it’s second nature.

Everyone arguing consoles are a better value has to understand: a list of parts from pc part picker, a trip to micro center, RGB fans, reading a half dozen power supply reviews, wringing of hands over whether the gpu will fit in the case you really like... this is all normal for [H]. You will never be able to convince them otherwise. We get addicted to spending the cost of a console on a new gpu every year. Sometimes twice a year. We think it’s reasonable.

and everyone arguing for PCs needs to understand: some people just want to go to Best Buy and get a damn PlayStation. They don’t want a steam account, gog account, Bethesda account, driver updates, variable refresh rates, ray tracing, they don’t care about 900p vs 1080p, 4K or hdr, they just want to play some games without having to upgrade their video card every year.

but neither side will ever really acknowledge it, so you just keep going in circles.
I've been playing on consoles and PCs for nearly 30 years now, I find the whole "War" between them ridiculous. Each has their place and there benefit and not everyone wants one or the other. Like you said, the market for both tends to be radically different.
 

Zedicus

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The people that play on xbox usually have a gaming pc too. The PlayStation guys were former pc gamers that are more casual now. And the tiny difference in specs will be less noticeable now than it even was for the ps4 and xbone. With the exception of the fact that the ps5 will load faster, check box in the advantage column of the casual.
 
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