The Road to PS5 - Deep Dive into PlayStation 5's system architecture

nguyen704

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Did I miss it, or did they still not show the console yet? Gamescom is still going on this summer, so maybe the final design will be revealed there. Sony and Microsoft are probably still trying to "out wait" each other on revealing pricing.
The console was not shown. Lol.
 

vegeta535

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That's kinda why I think it will all come down to price. There were news reports that Sony was having trouble getting the price of the PS5 down to $500 with just parts alone costing around $450. Not seeing how Microsoft can get the Xbox Series X down that low unless they are willing to take a substantial initial loss. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-with-playstation-5-price-due-to-costly-parts)
MS is going to take a big loss and release it at the $500 price point. They will dominate next gen if they do that. MS has the cash to do it. Sony can't and that's why the specs are lack luster since they are not trying to take the hit even if they could afford it.
 

5150Joker

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MS is going to take a big loss and release it at the $500 price point. They will dominate next gen if they do that. MS has the cash to do it. Sony can't and that's why the specs are lack luster since they are not trying to take the hit even if they could afford it.
Sony will still get the lions share of the global market and therefore dictate the direction of gaming for another decade. They have a cult like following in the console world outside NA. It doesn't matter what kind of hardware or online ecosystem MS provides, people want their 5th or whatever iteration of GoW and 20th iteration of Grand Turismo. MS only really has Halo going for it.

MS shouldn't even bother with Japan, they support their own companies there and won't give a western console maker a chance. Maybe S Korea and China could open up to MS depending on whether or not MS gets into exclusive deals with Chinese and Korean publishers.
 
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Derangel

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Did I miss it, or did they still not show the console yet? Gamescom is still going on this summer, so maybe the final design will be revealed there. Sony and Microsoft are probably still trying to "out wait" each other on revealing pricing.
There's also whatever MS originally had planned for E3 in June and Sony probably originally had something planned for around then as well. unless they do a Gamescom keynote.
 

kirbyrj

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If MS prices the XBX at $499, Sony is going to have to price the PS5 at $399 based on those specs I would think. At $599 for the XBX, the PS5 will be $499.
 

Marees

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2/3 the CUs as the Series X running at 6/5 the speed. The clock speed isn't going to make up for the severe deficit in shaders. Interesting they went this way considering the original Xbox One was widely blasted for its own weak GPU compared to the PS4. I wonder if Sony is going this way to undercut Microsoft on price.
Sony claims that frequency can act as a bottleneck & slow down entire system. So they are happy with their narrow & deep design compared to XsX wide & shallow model

One thing that concerns me is the power & cooling

Consoles use lesser space compared to PCs & AMD gpus consume more power, as the frequencies are cranked up
 

Revdarian

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ouch that turned from a sure buy to a tough sell. and as i have stated (and can be checked back to 2013) i am mostly a sony fan... darn i didn't expect this, hilarious in a way, hopefully there will be a price difference notorious at that pro sony ps5 :p
 

kirbyrj

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Sony claims that frequency can act as a bottleneck & slow down entire system. So they are happy with their narrow & deep design compared to XsX wide & shallow model

One thing that concerns me is the power & cooling

Consoles use lesser space compared to PCs & AMD gpus consume more power, as the frequencies are cranked up
In theory, the newer RDNA2 architecture is supposed to use 50% less power than the RDNA1 found in the current 5700 series which is 50% less power than previous Vega. I've seen a drastically reduced power draw in the 5700 compared to a Vega 56 (as a comparison), so it sounds like they are on track for their goals if they are putting RDNA2 in new consoles.
 

vegeta535

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Sony will still get the lions share of the global market and therefore dictate the direction of gaming for another decade. They have a cult like following in the console world outside NA.
Eh true but Japan itself is not even a huge market anymore. The PS4 only sold around 8 million there. Still the EU market is also huge for Sony. They won't struggle this gen but MS is pulling out all the guns to win it. Then they will fuck it up the following gen like they did with the Xbone lol.
 

Armenius

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Sony claims that frequency can act as a bottleneck & slow down entire system. So they are happy with their narrow & deep design compared to XsX wide & shallow model

One thing that concerns me is the power & cooling

Consoles use lesser space compared to PCs & AMD gpus consume more power, as the frequencies are cranked up
By that logic the 2080 Super should trounce the 2080 Ti with its 270 MHz advantage 🙃
 

Snowdog

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In theory, the newer RDNA2 architecture is supposed to use 50% less power than the RDNA1 found in the current 5700 series which is 50% less power than previous Vega. I've seen a drastically reduced power draw in the 5700 compared to a Vega 56 (as a comparison), so it sounds like they are on track for their goals if they are putting RDNA2 in new consoles.
XBSX has ~400W PSU which is MUCH more thant XB1X. They are going to need a LOT of cooling.
 

Snowdog

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Sony claims that frequency can act as a bottleneck & slow down entire system. So they are happy with their narrow & deep design compared to XsX wide & shallow model

One thing that concerns me is the power & cooling

Consoles use lesser space compared to PCs & AMD gpus consume more power, as the frequencies are cranked up
What? If anything the low clock speed bottleneck thing applies more to CPUs and Sony is running their CPU slower.
 

GreenOrbs

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One thing that will be interesting coming out of this is whether or not fast SSD's will become more important in the PC space. Right now, you get barely any gaming advantage by going from say a high quality SATA SSD like the Samsung EVO to nVME since games are all currently designed with slow console HDD's in mind. Now that both consoles are moving to SSD's as fast or faster than PC drives, we might actually see a tangible benefit to having purchased a nice NVME drive.
 

vegeta535

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XBSX has ~400W PSU which is MUCH more thant XB1X. They are going to need a LOT of cooling.
Have you seen the XBSX cooling? It is pretty beefy. The PS5 won't need nearly as much with those specs. Honestly I am fine of they make it huge like the Xbox just so it will be quite.
 

Derangel

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XBSX has ~400W PSU which is MUCH more thant XB1X. They are going to need a LOT of cooling.
Could have sworn I read somewhere that it was 300w, but now I can't find it. Do you have a source for 400w?
 

SeymourGore

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Nothing too surprising or exciting - XSX really took the wind out of the PS5s sails spec-wise, but I do appreciate the use of more standard SSD than XSX's proprietary memory card (for its 'loaded' drive).

Curious to see how close pricing will be, not sure if early generation software will show that much of an improvement from XSX to PS5.

Either way, should be a good fight. Sure, MS has the better specs but Sony has their proven 1st party studios (though MS is shoring up their own studio portfolio).
 

Aurelius

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If MS prices the XBX at $499, Sony is going to have to price the PS5 at $399 based on those specs I would think. At $599 for the XBX, the PS5 will be $499.
This is what I think people don't understand. It feels like a repeat of what Sony and Microsoft have been doing since 2013: Sony is trying to hit the sweet spot, Microsoft is trying to make the more powerful system even if it costs more. And unfortunately for Microsoft, people would generally rather save money than eke out a bit more performance that will likely be lost on cross-platform titles.

Let's also not forget exclusives. Microsoft's big problem with the Xbox One was its mediocre exclusives compared to Sony. Yeah, you have ReCore and Crackdown 3, but who gives a damn about those? It's like Microsoft's chronic lack of cool managed to infect its game studios.
 

Snowdog

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Could have sworn I read somewhere that it was 300w, but now I can't find it. Do you have a source for 400w?
Here:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-just-how-big-is-xbox-series-x-really

Just like Xbox One X, the PSU module we saw for the Series X (which - we stress - may not be final) supports multi-voltage and for 50Hz electrical supplies, the spec is 200-220v at 2.2A up against 200-220v at 1.3A for Xbox One X. That's a ballpark 70 per cent increase in power delivery.
I know they are peak values, but 200V at 2.2A is 440 Watts, so calling it ~400W PSU seems fair, though it may not be final.
 

Viper87227

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I get that this was meant for GDC, and thus meant more for industry professionals than consumers, but still... what a boring presentation.

Microsoft has been really forthcoming about what they are working on. Sony has not. It's very strange to me. Under normal circumstances, we'd get all this info closer to E3, but since that's not happening, why wait? Much of the world is at home instead of work right now, they have a captive audience who'd love having some good news to get hyped about.

I'm wondering if they are more worried than they are letting on about the ability to ship this year.
 

Derangel

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I get that this was meant for GDC, and thus meant more for industry professionals than consumers, but still... what a boring presentation.

Microsoft has been really forthcoming about what they are working on. Sony has not. It's very strange to me. Under normal circumstances, we'd get all this info closer to E3, but since that's not happening, why wait? Much of the world is at home instead of work right now, they have a captive audience who'd love having some good news to get hyped about.

I'm wondering if they are more worried than they are letting on about the ability to ship this year.
Sony has always been a very "play things close to the chest" company, much like Nintendo. I imagine it's just an old Japanese business ideology.

Sony was never going to have an E3 presentation anyway, so who knows when they actually plan to introduce more. The logical thing to do, originally, would be have a big reveal stream right after MS' E3 conference. But since that isn't happening and MS is now trying to plan out a way to hold their conference digitally....*Shrug*
 

Viper87227

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Sony has always been a very "play things close to the chest" company, much like Nintendo. I imagine it's just an old Japanese business ideology.

Sony was never going to have an E3 presentation anyway, so who knows when they actually plan to introduce more. The logical thing to do, originally, would be have a big reveal stream right after MS' E3 conference. But since that isn't happening and MS is now trying to plan out a way to hold their conference digitally....*Shrug*
I knew they wouldn't be having an E3 conference this year, but I guess I assumed they would still fully unveil the PS5 around that time. They have to know that's when MS is going to go all-out, and when major studios are going to start showing off their next-gen titles. Not being a part of that would be a mistake. I expect we will still see a digital presentation around that time from them. It just surprises me that they see Microsoft showing things off and generating some hype, and they don't want a piece of that. They should have throwing something to the consumer today. Even just a tease of what it looks like.
 

Derangel

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I knew they wouldn't be having an E3 conference this year, but I guess I assumed they would still fully unveil the PS5 around that time. They have to know that's when MS is going to go all-out, and when major studios are going to start showing off their next-gen titles. Not being a part of that would be a mistake. I expect we will still see a digital presentation around that time from them. It just surprises me that they see Microsoft showing things off and generating some hype, and they don't want a piece of that. They should have throwing something to the consumer today. Even just a tease of what it looks like.
"Can't disrupt PR's precious plans, even when everything is falling apart around your ears." That seems to be Sony's mantra.
 

5150Joker

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Nothing too surprising or exciting - XSX really took the wind out of the PS5s sails spec-wise, but I do appreciate the use of more standard SSD than XSX's proprietary memory card (for its 'loaded' drive).

Curious to see how close pricing will be, not sure if early generation software will show that much of an improvement from XSX to PS5.

Either way, should be a good fight. Sure, MS has the better specs but Sony has their proven 1st party studios (though MS is shoring up their own studio portfolio).
MS could win the console wars outright if they just bought out EA/Activision or one of the other major publishers. I'm surprised they haven't done this yet.
 

kirbyrj

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This is what I think people don't understand. It feels like a repeat of what Sony and Microsoft have been doing since 2013: Sony is trying to hit the sweet spot, Microsoft is trying to make the more powerful system even if it costs more. And unfortunately for Microsoft, people would generally rather save money than eke out a bit more performance that will likely be lost on cross-platform titles.

Let's also not forget exclusives. Microsoft's big problem with the Xbox One was its mediocre exclusives compared to Sony. Yeah, you have ReCore and Crackdown 3, but who gives a damn about those? It's like Microsoft's chronic lack of cool managed to infect its game studios.
Except that's not what MS did in 2013. They launched a weaker console for more money and included a mandatory accessory nobody wanted. The PS4 was definitely the more powerful console out of the gate and was for several years.
 

Armenius

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I get that this was meant for GDC, and thus meant more for industry professionals than consumers, but still... what a boring presentation.

Microsoft has been really forthcoming about what they are working on. Sony has not. It's very strange to me. Under normal circumstances, we'd get all this info closer to E3, but since that's not happening, why wait? Much of the world is at home instead of work right now, they have a captive audience who'd love having some good news to get hyped about.

I'm wondering if they are more worried than they are letting on about the ability to ship this year.
Cultural difference, most likely, with Sony still being a Japanese-controlled company.

Microsoft already said that the Series X launch is not being delayed.
 

Derangel

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MS could win the console wars outright if they just bought out EA/Activision or one of the other major publishers. I'm surprised they haven't done this yet.
Yeeeah the cost for either of those would be way too expensive. MS might be worth a trillion dollars but that doesn't mean they have tens of billions in cash just laying around.
 

vegeta535

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Yeeeah the cost for either of those would be way too expensive. MS might be worth a trillion dollars but that doesn't mean they have tens of billions in cash just laying around.
I can see it being at least 100 billion easy to buy EA alone.
 

kirbyrj

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Yeeeah the cost for either of those would be way too expensive. MS might be worth a trillion dollars but that doesn't mean they have tens of billions in cash just laying around.
Actually, they have some $133 billion cash on hand and the market cap of EA is $25.5 billion. They could easily buy it, but would it be worth the investment? Probably not. Ubisoft might be a better buy at around an $8.6 billion market cap.

Sony is in a much worse financial predicament than MS. PS is one of the few divisions that makes them money.
 

Derangel

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Actually, they have some $133 billion cash on hand and the market cap of EA is $25.5 billion. They could easily buy it, but would it be worth the investment? Probably not. Ubisoft might be a better buy at around an $8.6 billion market cap.
Ubi could be a bit pickup. Though, grabbing a big Japanese name could be worth a go as well. Someone like Capcom or Sega (though the later is probably more expensive than their game library alone is worth).
 

Domingo

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Not sure any of this impacts my decision making at all. I still plan on playing all MS titles on the PC and I still want to play Sony's exclusive games.
 

kirbyrj

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Not sure any of this impacts my decision making at all. I still plan on playing all MS titles on the PC and I still want to play Sony's exclusive games.
I understand that side of things. But for better or worse, high end consoles push gaming development. I think we'd be stuck in a rut if Sony turned into Nintendo with their underpowered console but great IP.
 

odditory

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Yeah, no. They're not going to release a console that expensive. Also, do you seriously think Sony and MS aren't aware of what the other is doing before anything is announced?
Undoubtedly each has info leakers in the other company and they won't be blindsided, but doesn't change anything. The X they're talking up right now will be more expensive than $499. I'd wager a $250 PayPal bet plus my password to Thunderjugs or AirtightGrannies (your choice but only one, not both).

The hardware in both Series X and PS5 really makes me think Sony and MS are done with the $299 or $399 pricepoints. "Teenagers are spending $1200 on iPhones, why kill ourselves stuffing mediocre hardware into another $299 box?"
 
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jeremyshaw

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Ubi could be a bit pickup. Though, grabbing a big Japanese name could be worth a go as well. Someone like Capcom or Sega (though the later is probably more expensive than their game library alone is worth).
Japan and France, two countries that are likely to block any takeover attempt.
 

Sycraft

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MS is going to take a big loss and release it at the $500 price point. They will dominate next gen if they do that. MS has the cash to do it. Sony can't and that's why the specs are lack luster since they are not trying to take the hit even if they could afford it.
Well part of what will determine dominance is exclusives. It shouldn't be how things work... but it is. MS has been trying to shore up in that area however for the XOX/PS4 era, Sony had more of them and more desirable ones and that helped a lot.

Also well have to see how bad the massive recession that is coming fucks over sales ><
 
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DukenukemX

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He probably PC games exclusively lol
Don't we all? Who games on PC and console? Especially when you have emulators.

Because most people don't want to buy a PC to play games on. How is this a hard concept for people to understand?
Can you say that with a straight face looking at those specs? It looks like a list of parts someone is going to use to build a PC. If someone didn't tell me that was a PS5, I would assume that's a Ryzen 3700 AF with a Radeon 5700 XT and someone wrote GDDR6 instead of DDR4 by mistake.

And L3 cache, which was rumored to be gutted.
 

Derangel

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Can you say that with a straight face looking at those specs? It looks like a list of parts someone is going to use to build a PC. If someone didn't tell me that was a PS5, I would assume that's a Ryzen 3700 AF with a Radeon 5700 XT and someone wrote GDDR6 instead of DDR4 by mistake.
And? It's still not a PC nor is it PC gaming. You're not making a counter argument.
 

Nightfire

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Looks to be the same performance difference as the PS4 pro to One X. PS5 achieves 10.3 TF at 'variable frequency'. Probably closer to 9.0 TF under reasonable frequency.

The One X has a nice bandwidth advantage as well which it will need for the additional shaders.

Overall the Series X has a much better foundation for future refreshes. It could always bump those shaders to PS5-like speeds and have closer to 15 TF of performance. Same goes for the 320 bit memory should they upgrade with GDDR6 16 GB/s.
 

Ranulfo

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So, from what I've read here the PS5 comes with an 825GB ssd in m.2 but that is replaceable with a newer drive by the user? Or is there 2 m.2 slots or the 825GB drive is soldered on the mainboard?
 
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