The Road to PS5 - Deep Dive into PlayStation 5's system architecture

1_rick

[H]ard|Gawd
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Unless that person has loads of cash on hand and can live on nothing while trying to find a new job, that isn't even remotely a reality for the majority of any workers out there, let alone game/software programmers and designers.

Today I learned it's not possible to look for a new job while you're still at your current one and switch with no downtime.
 

Snowdog

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The people that play on xbox usually have a gaming pc too. The PlayStation guys were former pc gamers that are more casual now.

I haven't owned a console in decades, but if I had a decent gaming PC, and was going to buy a console as well, I would get a PS5 since most of the Xbox exclusives will also be on PC, and it would be more redundant, while a PS5 would give me different games to play.
 

T4rd

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The people that play on xbox usually have a gaming pc too. The PlayStation guys were former pc gamers that are more casual now. And the tiny difference in specs will be less noticeable now than it even was for the ps4 and xbone. With the exception of the fact that the ps5 will load faster, check box in the advantage column of the casual.

Uhh....Got any proof to back that one up?

Yeah, that didn't make too much sense to me. I have all consoles and a gaming PC, but pretty much stick to PS4 and Switch exclusives on those consoles and play everything else on PC. The Xbone is mostly used for older 360 BC and arcade games anymore or as a UHD BD player.

Up until this year, I prolly put more time into my PS4 Pro than any other platform too when I did have time to play any games in the past few years, just because of its exclusives and they've certainly been some of the best games I've played even compared to recent PC games I've been playing lately. But I really couldn't care less about the hardware and will buy whatever I need to play the games that intereste me the most, because I enjoy games and the hardware is just the means to play them. I definitely prefer to support the developers of those stellar games as well by buying the consoles and their games, rather than make excuses about greedy publishers and lazy developers putting microtransactions (which pretty much no Sony exclusives have) or missing bugs in their games (again, Sony exclusives generally take the lead here but no game is bug-free), or the relatively small amount of console failures (as if PC parts don't fail just as commonly either), in order to justify pirating/emulating them as one indivudual in this thread does.

My time is also much more valuable to me than his apparently, because I definitely apprecaiate that I can just turn the console on and play a game, rather than mess with an emulator that most certainly wouldn't be as stable or perform as well as the console (at least for PS4 emulation - I'm sure Switch/Wii-U emulation would be a bit easier to run) and also be tied to my PC for it and not have any online functionality on any games either. You don't get that convenience even on a lot of native PC games, which I've ran into a lot lately when I went back to play some older PC games like Wolfenstein The New Order (HUD elements glitch out on ultrawide resolutions and you can't run the game over 60 FPS without breaking game speed), or Crysis and Crysis Warhead (constant crashing, sporatic performance, etc.). Or even in newer games like CoD MW when it first launched and cut scenes were out of sync and the game was crashing, which apparently didn't happen in the console versions, and I had to completely blow away the 100+ GB game and redownload it to fix it as a few others in the game's thread here reported they had to do as well. It's times like that I'd much rather just play it on console providing it supports keyboard and mouse controls than have to mess with troublshooting the PC game even if I have a 2080 and 120 Hz 1440p ultrawide to play it on.
 
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Derangel

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next-Jin

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If you think I/O improvements and SSD transfer speeds are going to in any way make up for a notable lack of raw GPU horsepower compared to XSX when it comes to rendering, I have a magic 2MB of SDRAM (or a new DirectX version), or a "cell" processor etc., etc. to sell you. It may speed up load times, but saying SSD speeds is going to help in-game FPS is pure marketing drivel.

I'm no Xbox fan (don't like their exclusives, don't like their prior attempts to force always-on DRM, detest their rushed QC), but they look to have Sony squarely beat in the performance department this round.

You misunderstood what I meant. I’m talking about “what” can change with those speeds, not sheer horsepower. If I’m not mistaken the PS5/XSX power difference is less than what it was for PS4/XBO. I’m fully aware they (MS) have a TFLOP advantage.

But with recent third party sourced comments from industry reporters and other insider information the SSD speed difference is influencing aspects of game design even from third party developers.

We will see soon enough but the faster loading may only be relevant for the XSX, the PS5 (especially first party developed titles) might have games that’s not quite possible on XSX.

I don’t exactly know what that looks like but given 2x the I/O bandwidth it is a significant difference.

The higher clock speed comments are in reference to Cernys discussion on clock speed vs CUs. I don’t put a lot of faith in that but it seemed like a legitimate justification. I personally think it’s a PR response because they used most of their R&D on the I/O and need to meet a specific price bracket.
 

sabrewolf732

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Even the rank and file as you say bares some weight. Yes leads, publishers and people that probably haven't touch code set the process but you don't have to work for a company that puts you in that position. Find a job at a different studio... until then since you are willing to cut the corners they order you to do you are lazy. Its called integrity, there are studio's that are willing to say its not done so we will push the release back in order to put out a better product. Find a job that meets all your requirements takes effort if you are one of those people that say "I'm going to stay here doing something I don't agree with because bills" just reinforces that you are lazy.

lol in before you're 17 and haven't had a job in the real world yet.
 

Derangel

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Rather large leap you're making.

Really? So what's the counter to them not being able to leave without losing the proof that they worked on the game? What's the counter to there not being another AAA developer they can go to that is any better? And don't suggest going to different industries either, because most creative industries treat employees like shit.
 

1_rick

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Really? So what's the counter to them not being able to leave without losing the proof that they worked on the game? What's the counter to there not being another AAA developer they can go to that is any better? And don't suggest going to different industries either, because most creative industries treat employees like shit.

I wasn't addressing that, obviously. Let's go back and look at the first part of Red Falcon's post that I quoted: "Unless that person has loads of cash on hand and can live on nothing while trying to find a new job". That's not necessarily true. It is certainly possible to be looking for a new job while at your current one, but (obviously) won't apply universally.

AAA game programming certainly seems like a job with a lot of cachet but given how many studios burn their employees out, it's not something I'd personally ever be interested in.
 

Mylex

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lol in before you're 17 and haven't had a job in the real world yet.
Well I'm 40, I work 2 full time jobs that pay well. I enjoy both and they work with my time schedule(was supposed to be temporary 4 years ago while they found another administrator but they would rather keep me on with working remotely). I tend to stay at jobs that I enjoy for 5+ years. If I don't enjoy or agree with it then I find one I think I will like.
 
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IdiotInCharge

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I haven't owned a console in decades, but if I had a decent gaming PC, and was going to buy a console as well, I would get a PS5 since most of the Xbox exclusives will also be on PC, and it would be more redundant, while a PS5 would give me different games to play.
I had the first Xbox... bought when I couldn't have a PC, and once I could have a PC again, I didn't pick the Xbox back up.

It's entirely personal for me, and it boils down to the games I want to play being more available on the PC and better played with a mouse and a keyboard. If that were not the case, I wouldn't mind a console.

And yeah... it'd probably be a PS5 too, all things considered. Whatever performance a console is perceived to have in its run up to release is always erased by the next round of PC hardware releases. It's about the difference in experience, between controller-centered with a TV and playing at a desktop more than anything else.
 

Aurelius

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I had the first Xbox... bought when I couldn't have a PC, and once I could have a PC again, I didn't pick the Xbox back up.

It's entirely personal for me, and it boils down to the games I want to play being more available on the PC and better played with a mouse and a keyboard. If that were not the case, I wouldn't mind a console.

And yeah... it'd probably be a PS5 too, all things considered. Whatever performance a console is perceived to have in its run up to release is always erased by the next round of PC hardware releases. It's about the difference in experience, between controller-centered with a TV and playing at a desktop more than anything else.

We also have to remind ourselves that it all comes down to the games, and that's where Sony is likely to dominate. The best PlayStation exclusives are often magnum opuses; the best Xbox exclusives frequently feel like they were designed by committee. And given that cross-platform titles will often be targeted at the lowest common denominator in terms of hardware, Microsoft's claimed advantage might not amount to much -- you may get the same game visually, it just runs slightly better (maybe!). And if the Xbox Series X costs substantially more than a PS5, it may not matter how much faster Microsoft's console is.
 

IdiotInCharge

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We also have to remind ourselves that it all comes down to the games, and that's where Sony is likely to dominate. The best PlayStation exclusives are often magnum opuses; the best Xbox exclusives frequently feel like they were designed by committee. And given that cross-platform titles will often be targeted at the lowest common denominator in terms of hardware, Microsoft's claimed advantage might not amount to much -- you may get the same game visually, it just runs slightly better (maybe!). And if the Xbox Series X costs substantially more than a PS5, it may not matter how much faster Microsoft's console is.
Based on past performance... I agree completely.

If I were to offer a different potential result, I'd be looking at the desire for developers to build scalability into their games (and engines) from the start; thus, the more powerful console might actually both look and play better for cross-platform games, if not as much better as may be intuited from first-party games.

But that's not a given, of course.
 

Verge

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The speedrun itself isn't what's important but the methods people employ. Games have bugs and that includes console games. Just because you don't aknowledge speedruns doesn't mean the bugs that people use don't exist. Here's an episode of GameGrumps where they used a pause jump bug with Knuckles to infinitely jump as high as they want. Not a speed run just GameGrumps playing Sonic Boom.


That's not what i'm saying, i'm saying normal people playing a game for fun, generally don't encounter these.
 

Flogger23m

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We also have to remind ourselves that it all comes down to the games, and that's where Sony is likely to dominate. The best PlayStation exclusives are often magnum opuses; the best Xbox exclusives frequently feel like they were designed by committee. And given that cross-platform titles will often be targeted at the lowest common denominator in terms of hardware, Microsoft's claimed advantage might not amount to much -- you may get the same game visually, it just runs slightly better (maybe!). And if the Xbox Series X costs substantially more than a PS5, it may not matter how much faster Microsoft's console is.

Microsoft does have some new developers, but we'll see how that pans out. Obsidian Entertainment is certainly a good one but their games are typically AA. Maybe Microsoft will give them a big budget to make something AAA and let them have at it. In which case we may see some truly good games come from them. But if they micromanage them then we'll get the same results. Xbox's best games were made by other companies they licensed or adsorbed with few exceptions. Halo - bought Bungie, Gears of War, done by Epic. Then they just kept reiterating over and over again. Will be interesting of OE can jump around genres like they have in the recent past or if they'll be forced to pump out sequels.

As for the better performance I think it will be less of an issue with Freesync. Previously you had to tie things to 30 FPS typically, so the slightly extra power would typically go to a slight resolution upscale on the PS4. Now you no longer need to worry about that, so if anything even if graphics are the same you can probably get a few extra frame rates on the new Xbox which is always good.
 

Marees

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Is it possible that PS5, PC and Xbox Series X cross-platform titles are relatively similar, but PlayStation’s (already highly coveted and praised) first party games get even better and are able to do even more wildly technically impressive things?

— Paul Tassi in Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...ential-catch-about-the-ps5s-crazy-custom-ssd/

PS5' fast SSD has the potential to make the big first party PS5 hits like Horizon Zero Dawn or God of War or The Last of Us even bigger and more impressive, but if we’re talking about cross-platform titles, we may not see the full potential of the PS5’s technical changes able to be utilized due to development concerns

Richard Meredith (@rtm223) Tweeted:
Cerny talked convincingly about level design considerations WRT streaming going away in next gen, but that's not gonna happen for anything running on PC as well.

It's gonna be incredible for PlayStation's 1st party AAA extravaganzas, but outside of that? I can't see it happening

https://t.co/3J5TwTS5v8

https://twitter.com/rtm223/status/1240335292483227654?s=20
 
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