“The Last Jedi” Is the Most Divisive Star Wars Movie Between Fans and Critics

Mark H. spoke the truth when he said, "Remember kids, it';s not important if it's of high quality; only if it makes money."

I wonder what people were expecting; Hollywood is a cesspool - part of the Swamp that needs draining ...
 
I didn't hate it nor did I love it. It was entertaining enough for me but I am not a Star Wars nerd that cry's when stories don't go the way I wanted. A solid 7.5 form me.
 
travisty said:
it's your own fault for
1 not seeing the movie sooner
2 going on a forum with a title which will produce discussions and arguments where 'spoiler' tags will never get used
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1) Wrong - I saw it on Thursday as part of a double feature starting at 3PM. Common courtesy to everyone else on the forums isn't all that hard.
2) Wrong - No it's really not, in the Media subforum, we're having an extended convo about this exact subject, and spoiler tags are being used all over the place.
 
travisty said:
Oh hey look at that you've confirmed my assertions. The media subforum is the perfect place for those that have not seen the movie to go.

News forum with a controversial title? Not so much.

You can move along now :)
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so what you're openly admitting is that you and others in this thread are too fucking lazy to use the tag. Got it.
 
Saw TLJ earlier today and have to say...

I'm not the biggest Star Wars fan in the world. I'm an 80s kid and saw the originals as a kid and saw Phantom Menace when it premiered in theaters. I loved them but was not as crazy about them as other things growing up, like Batman or kung fu movies or Arnold/Sly stuff or just action movies in general.

BUT OMFG DID I LOVE THE ORIGINAL 6 TEN TIMES BETTER THAN THIS DOGSHIT I HAD TO SIT THROUGH FOR NEARLY 3 HOURS!

I'm gonna keep it spoiler free, but if you call yourself a Star Wars fan, please don't even fucking tell me that this compares in any way to the daring originality of the George Lucas-helmed films, as flawed as many of them may be. This is Star Wars for SJWs and idiots who can't even see when the ENTIRE MOVIE is a rehash/remix of the originals to the point of insult. The worst thing though -- beyond even the extremely dialogue heavy shitofascript and characters like Rose who I really just wanted to die as soon as seeing them get shoehorned in for the China market -- is that the movie ends with the WORST villain of the series, an emo fucking pansy who wouldn't be worthy to apply as a fluffer for even Anakin's crybaby ass, anticlimactically DOING NOTHING EVIL.

I hated this shit movie so much, it officially made me a Star Wars fan for life. OF THE ORIGINAL, NON-DISNEY FILMS!
 
Xinmosni said:
...The worst thing though -- beyond even the extremely dialogue heavy shitofascript and characters like Rose who I really just wanted to die as soon as seeing them get shoehorned in for the China market -- is that the movie ends with the WORST villain of the series, an emo fucking pansy who wouldn't be worthy to apply as a fluffer for even Anakin's crybaby ass, anticlimactically DOING NOTHING EVIL.

I hated this shit movie so much, it officially made me a Star Wars fan for life. OF THE ORIGINAL, NON-DISNEY FILMS!
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That was one of the whiniest conservative SJW posts I've ever read.

At least watch the movie you're going to troll before you start trolling. seriously...
 
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Finding myself HATING packed theaters as I get older.
So I put off seeing it until a low-volume premium theater 11:25PM showing.
Total people in the theater. 7.
No noise. No distractions.

It's almost 4AM at this point and I'm kinda cooked.
Went into the film expecting nothing (CERTAINLY not ESB).
Still processing what I watched.

Will probably have more to say later today.
 
Haters gonna hate. I'm a Star Wars fan and TLJ just dethroned ESB as my favorite in the series.
 
htpc_user said:
Because they ignored stuff from the books.
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Well, to be fair, I understood that, it still was just annoying knowing there could have been the possibility for some serious badassness that woulda put this flick over the top. :D
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Oh please. Did you even see the fucking movie? His deception of Snoke was one of the best scenes in any of the Star Wars films.

You sound like people posting 'where was the Republic fleet?' when Episode 7 came out because they either missed the destruction scene or didn't even see the movie.

Maybe if people would pay attention and watch the movie instead of looking for reasons to be butthurt they'd enjoy movies more...
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So much this. A lot of things people are complaining about are because they were not watching the actual movie: they were observing the movie through their lens of expectations.
 
The Force does not give you super powers. The Force does not make you a super hero from the Marvel universe.
 
I saw it Thursday night-on my B-day, which was a double win. Been a fan of Star Wars since I was 4 years old and saw the original at a drive in theater.

I liked it better then Force Awakens, which IMO was a retreaded A New Hope with fan service. Not bad-but not great.

Not say it didn't have its shortcomings, which the biggest one was the complete lack of filling out Snokes background and killing him off.

Overall I'd give it an 8.5 and it be in the top 4-5 out of all the Star Wars movies.
 
Filiprino said:
The Force does not give you super powers. The Force does not make you a super hero from the Marvel universe.
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Force sensitives can pick up and throw massive objects, but can't form a thin bubble of air or pull themselves towards something in a weightless environment?

 
1) Superman Leia - WHAT? Dumb as fuck.
2) Why are cannons lobbed in space towards a cruiser, what happened to lasers? Dumb as fuck.
3) Snokes death? Dumb as fuck.
4) Luke teaching Rey - could have been cool but was terribly written - Dumb as fuck.
5) Casino - trying to compete with Jabba's scene, never going to compete and left huge holes. Dumb as fuck.
6) Trying to re-create the Hoth battle on a salt land? Dumb as fuck.
7) New AT-AT's cannot destroy old school rusty salt speeders? Dumb as fuck.
8) Rose? Dumb as fuck.
9) Invincible Jedi's? Dumb as fuck.
10) No good light saber battle? Dumb as fuck.

Dumb as fuck. That's why it's got a shitty score.

4/10 for me. Episode 1 was better, and that's saying a LOT.
 
I was entertained. Visually and audibly, it was Star Wars. Great action scenes and some humor that actually worked.
.... and, that's about it. Story was shit. Worst character arcs in the history of film? Debatable.

Go back to 1983 and what we knew then. Now imagine the first time we see Palpatine in Return of the Jedi. He walks up to his chair but misses a step, hits his head and dies. That's what they did with this reboot IMO. Absolutely stupid and a big WTF what was the point. Anti-climatic on a whole new level.

Given Luasfilm resources and a week, anyone reading this thread could have come up with a better script.
 
Saw it last night. I didn't think they could make it worse than 7, I was wrong. Terrible characters, dull plot, too many things that simply made no sense. 6/10
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Force sensitives can pick up and throw massive objects, but can't form a thin bubble of air or pull themselves towards something in a weightless environment?
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That is right. The Force does not allow you to survive in hostile environments for the organic life form race you belong. Think of scuba diving. If they could just pick up with them an oxigen bubble then they would never need the devices which allowed them to breathe under water in Episode I and III.

The Force augments your physical strengths and allows you to interact with things you can normally interact: solids, electricity, ground (long jumps). But does not allow you to invoke storms or manipulate gases and liquids because that is something you can't do even with a physically feasible volume for a standard human. And of course it does not allow you to fly. You can not attract or repel your self to an object by manipulating gravity. Leia coming back from space is then not allowed. Reminds me then why they needed masks in Episode IV when they were hiding in the mouth of a giant space-resistant animal.

Only those which become one with the Force can teleport or be everywhere, like for example Qui Gon in Episode II when Anakin slaughters the tusken camp, including children. Or Obi Wan in Episode V and VI and Yoda in VI. Yoda in Ep. 2 only can sense that Anakin is suffering (a Force disturbance). Luke projecting himself across the galaxy is out of scope and plot filling.
 
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Filiprino said:
The Force augments your physical strengths and allows you to interact with things you can normally interact: solids, electricity, ground (long jumps). But does not allow you to invoke storms or manipulate gases and liquids because that is something you can't do even with a physically feasible volume for a standard human. And of course it does not allow you to fly. You can not attract or repel your self to an object by manipulating gravity. Leia coming back from space is then not allowed. Reminds me then why they needed masks in Episode IV when they were hiding in the mouth of a giant space-resistant animal.
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Leia was in zero-G. A simple force push/pull shouldn't have been any kind of problem.
 
HeadRusch said:
I haven't even seen it...so Kylo turns on Luke as Vader turned on Kenobi.....and then Ben went off to be a secluded hermit on HEY WAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT A MINUTE....THEY JUST *COPIED* THE SAME MOVIE DIDN'T THEY! ;)
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Hey, guys, stop with the spoiler bullshit. You want to say something about the what happens at least try and warn us
 
Star Wars is okay but it's science fiction in name only. Basically magic in space.

Now it's being designed by committee into cookie cutter money printing crap.

Can we please get something that isn't insulting to the audience and is actually different?

I don't hate the franchise. I just think it's completely overrated.

Literally any Star Trek series has more hours of content than all of the Star Wars movies combined. And yet literally every movie has fans creaming their pants. I don't get it.
 
Filiprino said:
That is right. The Force does not allow you to survive in hostile environments for the organic life form race you belong. Think of scuba diving. If they could just pick up with them an oxigen bubble then they would never need the devices which allowed them to breathe under water in Episode I and III.
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Vader was able to use the force (really his rage) to allow himself to breathe without the help of his suit. He is seen in the original movies doing as much. When he is sitting in his Pod thing without his helmet on. True Vader was not able to maintain this for extended periods of time, however, his ability to do this could be extrapolated upon.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Force sensitives can pick up and throw massive objects, but can't form a thin bubble of air or pull themselves towards something in a weightless environment?

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As I said, I wouldn't have had a problem with this if she had a chance to shield herself ahead of time and wasn't seen frozen in space, unconcious at the very least. Her propelling herself with the Force isn't the problem with that scene. It's being frozen and the coming back to life because: "reasons."
 
Dan_D said:
As I said, I wouldn't have had a problem with this if she had a chance to shield herself ahead of time and wasn't seen frozen in space, unconcious at the very least. Her propelling herself with the Force isn't the problem with that scene. It's being frozen and the coming back to life because: "reasons."
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There was a moment to prepare. We see several cuts back and forth between the two characters with her thinking and then you see her brace before the impact. Not enough time to clear the bridge, but enough to do what she did. I didn't think she was completely frozen, I thought it was frost in her air bubble. Once the shock of being sucked out wore off she pulled herself in.

It surprised me too, but it actually works just as well as the Yoda/xwing scene.
 
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DigitalisAkujin said:
Star Wars is okay but it's science fiction in name only. Basically magic in space.

Now it's being designed by committee into cookie cutter money printing crap.

Can we please get something that isn't insulting to the audience and is actually different?

I don't hate the franchise. I just think it's completely overrated.

Literally any Star Trek series has more hours of content than all of the Star Wars movies combined. And yet literally every movie has fans creaming their pants. I don't get it.
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I'm not sure if you get what Science Fiction is all about. Maybe you do, I'm just not sure so I'll lay this out anyway and you can decide for yourself if the shoe fits.

Science Fiction was originally only written, books. What the science fiction venue provides is a vehicle that a writer can use that allows him the freedom to address real world issues in a make believe world, so that people can't claim "it's impossible" ... because it's fictional.

For instance, look at the first Star Trek series with William Shatner as Kirk. Look at some of the episodes, two guys that hate each other because one is black on the left side of his face and the other is black on the right side. They are addressing racial bigotry and hate and how stupid it is.


See, if you get into any racial debate today, you have to drag along and carry a few thousand years of history that gets thrown into your face by both sides just in order to try and get to a simple point, that we need to start treating each other better. Or one side says that we must make up for past wrongs by forcing a level field, it's not enough to just start treating everyone the same. But you can't talk about the basic issue without all the rest thrown in, unless you use science fiction in order to isolate and focus on your issue.

Science Fiction isn't, and never really was, about science or the future.

But even leaving this aside, there is a fundamental difference between Star Trek and Star Wars, for the TV series, they continue with an approach that is more like the real purpose of science fiction, bringing up issues, social issues, issues about risking a planet's future, etc. Things that you can find relevant to today's issues on Earth. Star Wars is just a story, a great story in a fast universe, but a big exciting story all the same.

So I agree that Star Wars isn't so much science fiction, but I think I disagree for a different reason.
 
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Dan_D said:
As I said, I wouldn't have had a problem with this if she had a chance to shield herself ahead of time and wasn't seen frozen in space, unconcious at the very least. Her propelling herself with the Force isn't the problem with that scene. It's being frozen and the coming back to life because: "reasons."
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Force Healing is a thing and scientifically the human body can survive in space for 15 to 30 seconds.

Anyways can't believe people are thinking about it that deeply for a series that has space wizards shooting lightning from their hands.
 
polonyc2 said:
** more Last Jedi spoilers***

they really ruined the Luke Skywalker character...the real Luke from the original trilogy would never become a hermit, lose hope and shut himself off from the world because Kylo turned on him...if anything that would only make him more determined to fight them...at least with Yoda it made sense why he went into exile- he was waiting for Anakin's son to grow up so he could train him to defeat Vader and the Emperor...with Luke the reasons are completely selfish
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he was a hermit because he turned on Kylo Luke puled out his saber on his nephew and Ben defended himself and turned to the dark-side. Luke was ashamed of his actions.
 
Kinsaras said:
Force Healing is a thing and scientifically the human body can survive in space for 15 to 30 seconds.

Anyways can't believe people are thinking about it that deeply for a series that has space wizards shooting lightning from their hands.
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I know Force healing is a thing. I know that space won't instantly kill you. However, she was out there with floating debris long enough to have ice crystals all over her. She seemed to be out for more than 30 seconds. The same concept and scene might have worked better, if ti was handled a little differently.
 
Ah, it's so enjoyable seeing people debate things like what the Force can and can't do without any stopping along the way to realize you're all fucking arguing about a fictional energy field that doesn't exist because it - and everything related to it including all the movies and characters and storylines over the decades - are fictional too.

Protip: the Force can do whatever a writer says it can do when the words are put down.

This shit is more fun to watch than the movies, seriously. :D
 
XvMMvX said:
How was it shat on?
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From reading the EU books......many many mnay books, Luke was always the one who would do whatever was needed to save the day, do what needed to be done.

Here, we see him give up after one failure. Vastly different.
 
thebufenator said:
Here, we see him give up after one failure which nearly costs him his soul, costs the galaxy all the remaining Jedi, cost the Rebellion more defeats and many many more lives lost, and leaves a big fucking empty hole where his heart used to be so he's somewhat entitled to his own feelings even in spite of viewers thinking otherwise. Vastly different, absolutely without question but quite understandable at the same time.
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FTFY :D
 
lcpiper said:
I sure if you get what Science Fiction is all about. Maybe you do, I'm just not sure so I'll lay this out anyway and you can decide for yourself if the shoe fits.

Science Fiction was originally only written, books. What the science fiction venue provides is a vehicle that a writer can use that allows him the freedom to address real world issues in a make believe world, so that people can't claim "it's impossible" ... because it's fictional.

For instance, look at the first Star Trek series with William Shatner as Kirk. Look at some of the episodes, two guys that hate each other because one is black on the left side of his face and the other is black on the right side. They are addressing racial bigotry and hate and how stupid it is.


See, if you get into any racial debate today, you have to drag along and carry a few thousand years of history that gets thrown into your face by both sides just in order to try and get to a simple point, that we need to start treating each other better. Or one side says that we must make up for past wrongs by forcing a level field, it's not enough to just start treating everyone the same. But you can't talk about the basic issue without all the rest thrown in, unless you use science fiction in order to isolate and focus on your issue.

Science Fiction isn't, and never really was, about science or the future.

But even leaving this aside, there is a fundamental difference between Star Trek and Star Wars, for the TV series, they continue with an approach that is more like the real purpose of science fiction, bringing up issues, social issues, issues about risking a planet's future, etc. Things that you can find relevant to today's issues on Earth. Star Wars is just a story, a great story in a fast universe, but a big exciting story all the same.

So I agree that Star Wars isn't so much science fiction, but I think I disagree for a different reason.
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Damn you wrote ALL that but said very little. Like thanks for explaining what Scifi is about. The thing is I reject your premise right at the door. Science Fiction can be about exploring the human condition sure. But it's not always the case. Your assertion that Science Fiction isn't, and never really was, about science fiction or the future is just blatantly wrong. It can be both, neither, or one or the other, plus many other things. Stop pigeon holing the genre into your own personal definition.

Over the past decade I've been an avid consumer of scifi. From Star Trek, Stargate, BSG, The Expanse, The Martian. They are all superior in multiple ways over Star Wars.

Heck even videogame science fiction stories blow away Star Wars. Mass Effect, Half Life, Eve Online, Portal, Spore, Deus Ex, Halo.

I'll take hundreds of hours of gameplay over a 3 hour movie any day.
 
SPOILERS!!!! Big ones!!
Some funny things people missed and did not get after reading the reviews:

Luke was never on Kryat He used the force to project himself this is why he looked younger and using his blue saber the one ray and Kyle had just broke in two and its why he was so badass: Kylo says to Ray the second time they see each other through the force "you cannot be projecting yourself it would kill you" so using the force like this is a known killer of Jedi.

Ray stole all the Jedi books this is why Yoda says ray has everything she needs from the temple and its why Yoda is laughing at Luke's shock as all Yoda did was blow up an empty tree! :) you see the books on the falcon when Finn looks for a blanket for Rose.
 
DigitalisAkujin said:
Damn you wrote ALL but said very little. Like thanks for explaining what Scifi is about. The thing is I reject your premise right at the door. Science Fiction can be about exploring the human condition sure. But it's not always the case. Your assertion that Science Fiction isn't, and never really was, about science fiction or the future is just blatantly wrong. It can be both, neither, or one or the other, plus many other things. Stop pigeon holing the genre into your own personal definition.

Over the past decade I've been an avid consumer of scifi. From Star Trek, Stargate, BSG, The Expanse, The Martian. They are all superior in multiple ways over Star Wars.

Heck even videogame science fiction stories blow away Star Wars. Mass Effect, Half Life, Eve Online, Portal, Spore, Deus Ex, Halo.

I'll take hundreds of hours of gameplay over a 3 hour movie any day.
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Hmmm, should I take all those titles and point out the "issues" that each poses?

The TV series are more exhaustive because each one tends to stand on it's own. The movies, they're a one-off and pretty easy.
 
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