“The Last Jedi” Is the Most Divisive Star Wars Movie Between Fans and Critics

Additionally, the use of the force by Leia and Luke and even Rey is placed as a plot hole filler. Does not follow any logic. Being savant with the force does not grant you anything without a minimum of training. Anakin and Luke did need training to move things and do Jedi tricks. Kyle Katarn needed training too.

Dan_D said:
No, that was a lesson that Luke had to teach Rey about himself. Although, that does actually add nicely to the lesson that the Jedi Order's downfall was because of it's own hubris. Which is true. The Jedi always taught that the darkness was a danger and emotion should be avoided, but this like many things the Jedi thought was not entirely true as it isn't an absolute. I think Luke was still caught up in the belief that it was during that lesson.
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Dan_D said:
In the context of Star Wars, a Mandalorian war seems unlikely. There are very few Mandalorians around at present. 40 years from Episode IV's time frame isn't enough to change that without another clone wars. I don't think we'll see Rey and Kylo go down that road. I think Kylo will be the bad guy going foward into the new movie. It doesn't make much sense to introduce a new one for the final installment of this trilogy. They've made a few missteps but that's not one I see them making.
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I think the force sensitive child reveal at the end of TLJ and Ren's desire to 'destroy the past', Rey being hot and bothered by a shirtless Ren could lead into a new generation of Jedi/Sith relations.

I wouldn't be surprised if the final film of this current trilogy ends up playing setup for Rian's original Star Wars movie trilogy. And I wouldn't be surprised if that setup involves a hint at an unknown threat via Marvel's Thanos-style.
 
It's a good movie. Rehashes a bit too much from Empire Strikes Back (especially the final battle, which is really similar to the one on Hoth), but still good. One of the better Star Wars films in my opinion, and way better than anything in the prequel trilogy.

From a morality standpoint, it's more nuanced and morally grey, and less black and white, good vs evil than previous Star Wars films. Maybe that's what people are divided on?

Could also be alt right 4chan trolls upset that it features a diverse cast. That wouldn't surprise me at all either.
 
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Dan_D said:
They aren't well written, nor are they original. In many ways, they echo the original triligy. Hell, Episode I has the same exact structure as ROTJ.
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The prequels SHOULD have echo's of the Originals, they are the prequels foretelling the story's end! I have my misgivings about the prequels, but they PALE in comparison to The Force Awakens. I enjoyed TFA's cinematics and familiar nostalgia, but it failed me miserably with story, script, acting (by many, not all), and any emotional investment in the new characters,
 
SeymourGore said:
I think the force sensitive child reveal at the end of TLJ and Ren's desire to 'destroy the past', Rey being hot and bothered by a shirtless Ren could lead into a new generation of Jedi/Sith relations.

I wouldn't be surprised if the final film of this current trilogy ends up playing setup for Rian's original Star Wars movie trilogy. And I wouldn't be surprised if that setup involves a hint at an unknown threat via Marvel's Thanos-style.
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or they go full retard and have Galactus threaten the starwars universe and the combined power of the force and the guardians of the galaxy is needed
 
Dan_D said:
Of all the issues I can take with the film, no, that's not really one of them. The First Order isn't the Galactic Empire. They seem to value their resources more than the Empire did. Ostensibly because they are far more finite. Despite the First Order being more massive than anyone could have imagined, it's still not the Galactic Empire.

The Rebels have far more finite resources. In fact, we pretty much saw the whole Rebellion in the movie. The problem is that they were put into situations where they had little choice but to expend those lives. Po even gets chewed out and demoted for taking unnecessary risks.
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The first order wouldn't have lost any ships lol. Leia's ship was a sitting duck with no front or side shields. The movie ends so fast without Hollywood creating that stupid situation.
 
Iceshot said:
The prequels SHOULD have echo's of the Originals, they are the prequels foretelling the story's end! I have my misgivings about the prequels, but they PALE in comparison to The Force Awakens. I enjoyed TFA's cinematics and familiar nostalgia, but it failed me miserably with story, script, acting (by many, not all), and any emotional investment in the new characters,
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o_O your problem with TFA vs the prequels is in part the ACTING?? :ROFLMAO:

I have issues with TFA, but imho nothing is as bad as those that shall not be named.
 
interesting how hollywood has had no real artistic creativity for the past ho many years now, to put out anything but "it was ok" movies ... wait, here it comes: Wizard of OZ redo version 6.0 or is it Kung Fu Panda 7 ?
 
_l_ said:
interesting how hollywood has had no real artistic creativity for the past ho many years now, to put out anything but "it was ok" movies ... wait, here it comes: Wizard of OZ redo version 6.0 or is it Kung Fu Panda 7 ?
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Its been known for a while that film producers are terrified of taking risks, as production budgets are so large, they go for the broadest audience and most guaranteed return. There was a large exodus of talent to television a few years ago as they could be more creative.

Still there are gems, they are what I live for (entertainment wise).
 
If the critics love it and audiences are luke warm to a great franchise, the movie is doomed.

Way to fuck it up JJ. The franchise is officialy a money whore and dead much like transformers and trek. Thanks for shitting on a once great thing.

Somebody remove the directors chair from this clown.
 
This was by far my least favorite Star Wars movie. If this wasn't Star Wars, I'd give it a thumbs down. But just for the fact it's Star Wars I'll say it was enjoyable. It made me realize how much I enjoyed the prequels.

There is so much either wrong or out of character (Hux and Poe's communication in the beginning) in this movie.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
If the critics love it and audiences are luke warm to a great franchise, the movie is doomed.

Way to fuck it up JJ. The franchise is officialy a money whore and dead much like transformers and trek. Thanks for shitting on a once great thing.

Somebody remove the directors chair from this clown.
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You really seem to think internet trolls posting negative things in comments sections are representative of most people. They aren’t. I bet this movie smashes all kinds of sales records.
 
sirsad said:
7) Rose was added just to add an Asian to the movie. Ok.
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I'm guessing that was Disney pandering to the Chinese market. You see that in a lot of big budget films now.


Saw it, spoiler wrap.

TLDr;
- Some dialogue and choreography was cringe inducing.
- Physics are turned on or off depending the scene requirements, apparently.
- Big tease of a battle turns into a "JK, peace out" moment.
- Mutiny? All is forgiven!
- We have enough fuel to fly for 18hrs or do 1 lightspeed jump. JK, we can lightspeed jump on near empty! Fuck your math.

It wasn't bad, it wasn't good. It was OK.

The opening scene (very first dialogue) was absolutely cringeworthy acting wise. There were moments where the bad acting and poor dialogue seemed like it may have been intentional.

The bombing scene was cool, but StarWars seems to have an alternative dimension for physics, because how was there gravity for the bombs (and the person) to fall? They were clearly in space. How does Leia get sucked into the vacuum of space and survive? No-one else survived. Force bubble or something? There's no explanation of that. The First Order cannons appear to fire with an arc .. in space .. where there's no gravity or horizon.

The final battle was interesting until it turned into a big tease of "oh, we're just joking, this epic battle is actually with a hologram." And then he just vanished?

The lightspeed ramming was interesting. But again, led to a weird plot hole. One, in all of their advanced technology they don't have an autopilot, so the purple haired lady had to stay behind? That seems convenient. She then sits around for 10 f-ing minutes just watching the transports get destroyed before deciding to do something.

Also, they continued to update us on the fact power was critical and they could only do one lightspeed jump, so they decided to flee traditionally .. yet, when we're again reminded their power is critical and all but empty (given the constant updates they feed us), they suddenly have enough power to do a lightspeed jump (ram)? As cool as it looked .. that makes no sense, that would be the lightspeed jump isn't that power hungry. If you can only afford one jump or to fly for 18 hours at normal speed, that stands to reason that the lightspeed jump is greater than the 2 or less hours of energy you had left.

They stop a mutiny and yet all was forgiven?

Don't even get me started on the tactics deployed. Or the obvious choreography in some of the bigger fight scenes.


So yeah, too many plot holes.
 
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I love how everyone is psychoanalyzing this movie on the basis of critic & audience reviews a day after it came out when the majority of people haven't even seen it yet. LOL.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
If the critics love it and audiences are luke warm to a great franchise, the movie is doomed.

Way to fuck it up JJ. The franchise is officialy a money whore and dead much like transformers and trek. Thanks for shitting on a once great thing.

Somebody remove the directors chair from this clown.
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As much as I don't like JJ reshash of A New Hope in Force Awaken, he had no part in the Last Jedi, you can blame that on Rian Johnson who directed and written the story for the Last Jedi.
 
Read the entire story for the Last Jedi but haven't seen it yet.

I think there really is only one way to salvage the story.

Kylo Ren is set up as the "New Emperor" - not in terms of power but just simply in terms of station. He is the bad guy of the entire series and we just witnessed his assent.

Luke however stays on as a force ghost and instead of coaching Rey, attaches to the last known Skywalker, kylo/Ben, as sort of a living conscience, now forever trying to bring him back to the light, and kylo can't do shit about it because Luke's already one with the force.

The actress who plays Rey says she will not be back unless perhaps somewhere in the distant future after the next movie, so she goes off and trains the next generation of Jedi off screen.

Basically, we don't have super powerful mega lord Jedi and Sith. Everyone is fairly weak, and kylo is only Strong by comparison to the current generation.

Kylo becomes this Generations emperor, while we get stories of perhaps Chewbacca taking the falcon and scouting force-sensitives to bring back to whatever hidden planet Rey has settled on to train the next Generations of Jedi.

Kylo also starts Gathering forces sensitives and indoctrinates them into his Knights of Ren.

No more Sith rule of two, and now we have the Star Wars Universe wide open with force-sensitives in the light and dark sides battling each other.

Think Star Wars, the Old Republic in terms of scope. Depending on how they do this and how they treat this, I think this could work especially since Disney wants to reboot and make everything wide-open apparently.
 
If "The Last Jedi" was a stand-alone movie I'd give it a 85%. I applaud the fact that once it started, it never stopped. Though come on First Order, send half the fleet ahead via hyperspace, turn around, hyperspace back and wipe the rebellion out quickly.

Sadly the movie is not stand-alone. It exists in a far larger universe than just movies. While that universe did shrink considerably when Disney acquired Lucas Arts, the expanded universe has grown considerably.

Those who went to see this movie for the movie itself, they'll be pleased.
Those who went to see the movie to continue the Star Wars store line will not be pleased.

I overall give it a 45% as the continuity and the willful trashing of so much of the cannon was pathetic.



If all of this leads Ray to Ahsoka Tano in some way in Episode IX i will forgive Episode VIII and admit it was for the greater good.


P.S. I am very aware that Ahsoka will be in her eighties in this time frame and that Togrutas have the same life span of humans.
 
I enjoyed TLJ. I go in not expecting too much, though, and I know none of the new Star Wars movies will feel like the originals or be as good as Empire. Yeah, some of the criticisms are justified. There was a bit of cheesiness and contrived story, and the writers sometimes seem to pull stuff out of their butts to make the plot work, etc, but I still enjoyed it.
 
Spidey329 said:
I'm guessing that was Disney pandering to the Chinese market. You see that in a lot of big budget films now.


Saw it, spoiler wrap.

TLDr;
- Some dialogue and choreography was cringe inducing.
- Physics are turned on or off depending the scene requirements, apparently.
- Big tease of a battle turns into a "JK, peace out" moment.
- Mutiny? All is forgiven!
- We have enough fuel to fly for 18hrs or do 1 lightspeed jump. JK, we can lightspeed jump on near empty! Fuck your math.

It wasn't bad, it wasn't good. It was OK.

The opening scene (very first dialogue) was absolutely cringeworthy acting wise. There were moments where the bad acting and poor dialogue seemed like it may have been intentional.

The bombing scene was cool, but StarWars seems to have an alternative dimension for physics, because how was there gravity for the bombs (and the person) to fall? They were clearly in space. How does Leia get sucked into the vacuum of space and survive? No-one else survived. Force bubble or something? There's no explanation of that. The First Order cannons appear to fire with an arc .. in space .. where there's no gravity or horizon.

The final battle was interesting until it turned into a big tease of "oh, we're just joking, this epic battle is actually with a hologram." And then he just vanished?

The lightspeed ramming was interesting. But again, led to a weird plot hole. One, in all of their advanced technology they don't have an autopilot, so the purple haired lady had to stay behind? That seems convenient. She then sits around for 10 f-ing minutes just watching the transports get destroyed before deciding to do something.

Also, they continued to update us on the fact power was critical and they could only do one lightspeed jump, so they decided to flee traditionally .. yet, when we're again reminded their power is critical and all but empty (given the constant updates they feed us), they suddenly have enough power to do a lightspeed jump (ram)? As cool as it looked .. that makes no sense, that would be the lightspeed jump isn't that power hungry. If you can only afford one jump or to fly for 18 hours at normal speed, that stands to reason that the lightspeed jump is greater than the 2 or less hours of energy you had left.

They stop a mutiny and yet all was forgiven?

Don't even get me started on the tactics deployed. Or the obvious choreography in some of the bigger fight scenes.


So yeah, too many plot holes.
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For the final battle didn;t you see it coming? I mean when Luke moved around the ground didn;t turn red like when everyone else walked on it.
 
naib said:
the hyperspace suicide comes to mind. The director did a good job in silencing everything. however epic it is, it does cause some continuity issues... this should not be possible and raises the question ... why wasn't this used until now? hyperspace missiles could have taken out the deathstars...
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That's just a lack of imagination. Maybe doing that kind of damage requires extremely powerful shields and or a high mass ship pointed with high accuracy, perhaps even a force-sensitive pilot at close range, thus limiting the ability to use capital-ship hyperspace ramming as a weapon from a distance.

It really doesn't matter. Some people just want something, anything they can put on a list of things they supposedly hate about the movie. It's sad. The whole theater went silent for the ramming scene, it was epic.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
That's just a lack of imagination. Maybe doing that kind of damage requires extremely powerful shields and or a high mass ship pointed with high accuracy, perhaps even a force-sensitive pilot at close range, thus limiting the ability to use capital-ship hyperspace ramming as a weapon from a distance.

It really doesn't matter. Some people just want something, anything they can put on a list of things they supposedly hate about the movie. It's sad. The whole theater went silent for the ramming scene, it was epic.
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You can always pick scenes apart like that if you really want to look for reasons to hate a movie. I only dislike scenes that are way too far out of any realm of logic to be plausible. There is one such scene in the movie that comes to mind. Aside from that, I enjoyed it.
 
Business6 said:
Best scene: Light speed shipsaw.
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As I saw the ship turn around I *knew* that was gonna happen and I was like "NO. F'N. WAY." Totally redeemed that character since up to just before that I thought she was kind of lame.

The whole casino scene was very SPECIAL EFFECTS FOR RUNTIME and the battle in Snoke's chambers felt totally unnecessary except to give some forced Kylo+Rey fanservice. If they wanted that there were probably better ways to execute it. What was the motivation of the guards to even bother fighting?

I also hope that dude that sold them out gets his in the next movie. I almost liked him.
 
Sonicks said:
Spoilers:

You seem to confuse the director with the screenwriter. Place your hate on the latter.

The bit with Snoke is easily explainable if you bothered to listen to what he Soke was saying. He said he could see in Kylo that he would kill the person that deserved it (paraphrasing). To Kylo that was Snoke himself but Snoke misinterpreteted that as being Rey. He saw it coming he just read it wrong.

Pretty elementary stuff.
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you do realize that Rian Johnson is both the writer and director of Last Jedi??

your interpretation does not address my comment at all...you're looking at it in terms of Kylo's point of view...my comment was how come Snoke, who we see is extremely powerful, does not see it coming?...he's able to create bridges in time and space to manipulate Kylo and Rey's minds but cannot see that Kylo is moving a lightsaber sitting a few inches from him??...
 
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Glock24 said:
I saw it on Thursday. I really liked it. It's far from the best SW movie, but very entertaining. It's felt more like the original trilogy than EP 1-3. But there were a couple of things that really bothered me:

*Spoilers ahead*

- Apparently there's gravity in space in SW's universe. Just look at how the bombs "fall" on the ship. Oh, and a hatch opens for the bombs to exit the ship, but apparently space has atmosphere too! That or the crew can breathe in the vacuum of space.
- Leia flying back to the ship, Superman style. WTF!
- Who is Snoke! We get absolutely no background information on the most powerful enemy. Where did he come from? How did he become Supreme Lider? What is he?
- Luke's death was kinda lousy.

Overall I'll give it 7.5/10
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I asked my wife in the movie if a ship that big would have gravity (snokes) or be able to mimic it ( ship beams)
 
Have not seen the new one but I can't imagine it being as bad as The Force Awakenings--by far the worse Star Wars film in my opinion. Only actor I liked was Hans Solo the dude which they end up just killing. Overall crappy characters and acting and so much seemed unrealistic while copying the previous films with nothing new. Rey just knows everything and good at everything with no training or knowledge and they fight off a trained Sith... WTF. Rogue One was much better.
 
You guys do know that anything with mass in space will have gravity right? Granted, the effect it would have on another object should generally be minimal, but things in space do have it. The bomb scene might work if there was something actively propelling the bombs towards their target. That's not what it looks like, but then again science has never been Star Wars's forte. Ships fly in space the way they would in an atmosphere. Designs like the TIE/In which wouldn't work in atmosphere do, etc.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
Luke however stays on as a force ghost and instead of coaching Rey, attaches to the last known Skywalker, kylo/Ben, as sort of a living conscience, now forever trying to bring him back to the light, and kylo can't do shit about it because Luke's already one with the force.
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That would be pretty entertaining, especially if Ghost Luke brought Yoda in for the fun of haunting poor Ben. Having the ghosts pop up at the worst times would be a lot of fun.

"Ohh, new Emperor this is? Small wiener, he has! Ohohohoho!"
 
The real reason why there’s so much hate is people have their own vision of what Star Wars is and if a movie doesn’t validate their view it’s usually “garbage” which is funny.

I loved the movie, many things pissed me off and I’ll get over that. But I thought it was great and Mark Hamil is my hero.
 
Cmdrmonkey said:
You really seem to think internet trolls posting negative things in comments sections are representative of most people. They aren’t. I bet this movie smashes all kinds of sales records.
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Sales records don't mean quality. All Star Wars movies are riding on the nostalgia of the original series.

Frankly, I thought the movie was a let down. There are too many loose ends, poor dialog, underdeveloped characters and just a plain letdown of what we do know (and expected). The movie, in and of itself, was enjoyable, but in Star Wars continuation/lore, it didn't hold up well.

Frankly, one of the very best sequences of describing the force happened in the animated Clone Wars series with episode 16 called 'Altar of Mortis'. In it's entirety the Clone Wars did much to fill in plot holes from episode 2 to 3 as well. It made Anakin's actions in episode 3 more understandable.

Star Wars Rebels does a good job of describing the force too, especially with the Bendu.
 
Glock24 said:
- Apparently there's gravity in space in SW's universe. Just look at how the bombs "fall" on the ship. Oh, and a hatch opens for the bombs to exit the ship, but apparently space has atmosphere too! That or the crew can breathe in the vacuum of space.
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I'll try to explain it in not quite so massively scientific terms or anything:

If you had a ship like that, with a bunch of those "bowling ball bombs" all stacked in a few dozen racks, with a dozen or more balls per rack and the inside of the ship has a gravity field - which it obviously does lest the people and objects inside the ship would spend all their time just floating around or whatever - and you opened the hatch (protip: force fields, learn 'em, love 'em) and then basically pull out the stops on the racks preventing the bombs from falling to the floor of the ship then yes, at that time, at that moment considering the gravity inside the vehicle the bombs would do precisely what they did:

Fall to the bottom of the ship aka the deck, floor, whatever.

Having said that, and since the hatch/door was now open but the ship's atmosphere was protected by a force field - you see this shit in most any science fiction movie or TV show constantly, really, it's not some miracle at all based on the technology of said movies and TV shows, Star Wars has done it multiple times (and now again), Star Trek (most every series related), Stargate, etc etc on and on - the bombs would "fall" exactly as they are shown to do in the movie.

There's nothing directly contradicting this, and there could even be some mechanism in the racks that shoots the balls out of the ship just the same way a bowling ball itself is moved along an alley from the well (where the pins are) back to the throwing platform, along moving rubber lines. Just think of that done in a purely vertical sense "ejecting" the bombs from the bottom of the ship. And of course once they leave the ship with some trajectory they will maintain that trajectory because of the now micro-gravity environment outside the ship means there's nothing to stop them so...

tl;dr YES IT WORKS THAT WAY :)
 
polonyc2 said:
your interpretation does not address my comment at all...you're looking at it in terms of Kylo's point of view...my comment was how come Snoke, who we see is extremely powerful, does not see it coming?...he's able to create bridges in time and space to manipulate Kylo and Rey's minds but cannot see that Kylo is moving a lightsaber sitting a few inches from him??...
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Oh please. Did you even see the fucking movie? His deception of Snoke was one of the best scenes in any of the Star Wars films.

You sound like people posting 'where was the Republic fleet?' when Episode 7 came out because they either missed the destruction scene or didn't even see the movie.

Maybe if people would pay attention and watch the movie instead of looking for reasons to be butthurt they'd enjoy movies more...
 
polonyc2 said:
you do realize that Rian Johnson is both the writer and director of Last Jedi??

your interpretation does not address my comment at all...you're looking at it in terms of Kylo's point of view...my comment was how come Snoke, who we see is extremely powerful, does not see it coming?...he's able to create bridges in time and space to manipulate Kylo and Rey's minds but cannot see that Kylo is moving a lightsaber sitting a few inches from him??...
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Overconfidence... Hubris >.<

It's a consistent theme in EVERY star wars movie since 1977.

From Tarkin not evacuating in a new hope because... I think you over estimate their chances. To obi-wan yoda mace and no one else noticing Anakin doing a 180 in the prequels.

This one says it all....
Your overconfidence is your weekness,
Your faith in your friends is yours.
Neither is wrong... and its born out in every SW story to date.

 
My take? Too many attempts at comedy that seemed forced. I was very pleased with the story and the characters. I give it a 8.5.

(I feel strongly that the directors saw the success Marvel has had with humor in their recent films, and tried to follow that formula. Sadly, most of us wanted to see a return to the original three films style, where humor was usually generated by the foibles of druids, or the occasional bit of snark - "I love you" - "I know".)
 
seems alot of hate for the movie, all I can say is I had a ton of fun watching it, the movie theater was packed today and tons of cheering and laughing at the right times seemed every one there had a good time watching it as well.

Really do like this movie, cant wait for part 9
 
People keep using the word "hate" for people who didn't like the movie.

I would say "hate" is incorrect in many cases.

"Disappointed" is a better word to use in this regard.

As I said earlier. Those who wanted to see an action one-off movie with some history/future on it will enjoy the heck out of it. Those who have spent large amounts of time in the expanded universe (current and/or legacy) will more than likely be disappointed with the movie as it did nothing to reinforce the EU. Instead, for the most part, put it all to the side and did it's own thing. Which wouldn't be bad if there weren't so many holes which Disney has a panel of people to prevent.

TLJ was good in some regards and bad in others.

Did i love it or hate it? No. I was glued to my seat as it was a jam-packed ride of a movie.

Overall was I disappointed? Yes

P.S. I am well aware the majority of the pre-Disney cannon is no more (hence Disney calling it legacy) The Clone Wars TV series is included in the post-Disney cannon
 
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