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“The Last Jedi” Is the Most Divisive Star Wars Movie Between Fans and Critics
- Thread starter Megalith
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Not that I don't understand your point and somewhat agree.... I just have to say this anyway.
Those people clearly missed the memo in 2015... when Disney said you can take your EU and forget it. Nothing pre Disney is canon anymore. They haven't been shy about that... they have no plans to try and work any of that stuff into their future plans. People craving movies based on the old republic ect should also adjust their hopes, as it will never happen. Lots of great stories in the EU stuff I know, I have enjoyed plenty of them as well... but they are not part of the movie canon.
While there is a lot of content there I’m totally cool with them moving on.
They aren’t trying to recreate Lucas’ dream but expand on it further. I also think there is enough out there about the EU to keep people happy.
cthulhuiscool
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Nice Battlestar Galactica reference!
I am looking forward to a future SW movie that has nothing at all to do with anything that came before other then the universe. I mean a Han solo movie I'm sure will be fun... and Rouge one Almost Almost got there. I would love to see more movies like Rouge one but without all the death star skywalker or even solo baggage. As you say the EU has a lot of great stories and the best ones I remember where the ones that at most touched on the movies events and characters. Even a some of the video games got it right. The old republic... I know will never happen in movie form but it was new, and they where able to tell a story with notes but not direct groan inspiring connections to the skywalkers solos vaders ect... I mean hell I was half expecting Hux to have a scene with a picture of Grandpa Tarkin in his quarters or something.
Well I guess we'll just have to hold out hope. (and yes I know how bad a SW pun that is considering TLJ)
kidstechno3
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The prequels were infinitely better than TFA and TLJ. By leaps and bounds. Rogue One was fantastic though.
DeathFromBelow
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What holes?
I spent 'large amounts of time in the EU' and concluded that most of it was pretty awful, TBH. They have clearly been borrowing elements and visual cues from the prequels (lots of throwbacks to Episode III in this film, just look at Ren) as well as good EU material like KOTOR. Even little things like the Porgs, they're unique to this story arc, but they act like the stowaway Gizka that rode the Ebon Hawk to the Unknown World in KOTOR 1.
Dayaks
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Yeah no shit. Along a lot of the comedy seemed forced.
I actually didn't mind most of the comedy bits...the only one that I really didn't like was after Kylo had all the cannons etc fire at Luke and then Luke appeared out of the smoke unhurt and he did that move where he wiped his shoulder which is a way of taunting him that he didn't hurt him
Damar
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Born in 1970 so I grew up with 4, 5 and 6. Always liked them (liked, not loved, I was never a fanatic about it, never read the books or the EU stuff).
1, 2, and 3 were painful to watch. I've seen them once and it was hard to sit through those. I have no desire to watch them again.
7 I enjoyed, probably because it felt a lot like 4 did. It wasn't jaw dropping awesome but had parts that felt familiar along with some new bits that were, for the most part, easy enough to swallow. I don't envy the job JJA had in making that film.
8 wasn't as bad as 1, 2 or 3, but it was a chore to sit through. I know RJ wanted to do the old "burn it to the ground and reform" thing, but it could have been done much, much better than this. By the time it was over I was glad to get out of the theatre, and that's not a good thing. (thank God for $5.50 matinee shows).
I don't mind it when characters die, or things get changed if it suits the story, but the shift from 7 to 8 was just far too sharp for me. It still could have done what it needed to do and struck a much better overall tone than it did I think.
Some of the battles were epic, the Porgs were cute, but the slog of the overall story, was more tiring than exciting. I may watch it again once its out on home video just for some of the battles, but I'll be making liberal use of the fast forward button through a lot of the rest of it. That'll turn it into about a 20 minute speed flick when I've got some time to kill at work between updates.
For those that enjoyed it, I'm glad. Not one thing is going to appeal to everyone, so thankfully, there's a variety in life to find something we all do enjoy.
1, 2, and 3 were painful to watch. I've seen them once and it was hard to sit through those. I have no desire to watch them again.
7 I enjoyed, probably because it felt a lot like 4 did. It wasn't jaw dropping awesome but had parts that felt familiar along with some new bits that were, for the most part, easy enough to swallow. I don't envy the job JJA had in making that film.
8 wasn't as bad as 1, 2 or 3, but it was a chore to sit through. I know RJ wanted to do the old "burn it to the ground and reform" thing, but it could have been done much, much better than this. By the time it was over I was glad to get out of the theatre, and that's not a good thing. (thank God for $5.50 matinee shows).
I don't mind it when characters die, or things get changed if it suits the story, but the shift from 7 to 8 was just far too sharp for me. It still could have done what it needed to do and struck a much better overall tone than it did I think.
Some of the battles were epic, the Porgs were cute, but the slog of the overall story, was more tiring than exciting. I may watch it again once its out on home video just for some of the battles, but I'll be making liberal use of the fast forward button through a lot of the rest of it. That'll turn it into about a 20 minute speed flick when I've got some time to kill at work between updates.
For those that enjoyed it, I'm glad. Not one thing is going to appeal to everyone, so thankfully, there's a variety in life to find something we all do enjoy.
Zion Halcyon
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There is an excellent Robot Chicken skit of Anakin killing jar jar. Force ghost of Jar Jar then torments him for eternity even jabbering while he's trying to sleep.
I think Force ghost Luke attached to kylo even if he were this Generations Emperor would add a very interesting and Different Twist on the whole thing.
Imagine a forest goes to Luke hanging around kylo and offering alternate points of view slowly trying to bring him back to the light even as kylo is trying to go full dark. Even if he is never fully redeemed, having a kylo ren who is even they're willing to consider some of Luke's viewpoints eventually over time would allow him to grow in the movies as a very complex and interesting villain.
Crazy immature kylo could be excused he grows into a much more interesting villain due to his proclivities to the dark side and Luke counseling him and trying to redeem him to the light.
Plus for those upset about the Skywalker lineage, and feel Luke deserved better, having him hanging around and being all Luke as a force ghost will help reconcile things.
DeathFromBelow
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Luke: I... I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you fail.
Lifting rocks is within the realm of logic, but holding a thin bubble of air is not? Same with pulling things towards you vs floating towards something in a weightless environment? It was totally unexpected, but I don't think it was outside the realm of logic for the Star Wars mythology.
Luke: If I don't make it back, you're the only hope for the Alliance.
Leia: Luke, don't talk that way. You have a power I don't understand and could never have.
Luke: You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have.
IMO it was actually a neat little way of fulfilling Luke's prophecy.
Leia: Luke, don't talk that way. You have a power I don't understand and could never have.
Luke: You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have.
IMO it was actually a neat little way of fulfilling Luke's prophecy.
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Just got back from seeing it again. It's fantastic
Funny that the same people who bitched about TFA being too similar to ANH are bitching about this one being too different from the other films. Everybody has to whine about something, I guess.
Pretty sure gravity works outside the atmosphere in our universe, too.
Well, what I meant was the way the bombs behave in the movie is physically incorrect. They are in deep space. The bomber is "above" the big ship and the bombs "fall" to the ship. There is no planet/moon/sun below to attract mass. The big ship's mass is insignificant in terms of gravitational force.
There's also a apace battle scene where various ships are hit, and they "fall down" after being hit. I just laughed at that.
Now that I look at the past movies, Star Wars has never been much about scientific accuracy. Maybe it did not bother before because I was a kid and didn't care. Or maybe I've been spoiled by the "Martians" and "Interstellars".
naib
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Exactly and we don't know what happened between RotJ and TLJ ... maybe Leia figured some of it out, maybe luke taught her a few tricks
In the immortal words of Jay-Z
If you feeling like a pimp
Nigga, go and brush your shoudlers off
DeathFromBelow
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The Dreadnought was lining up to bomb the base, it was above the planet. If the rebel bombs weren't gravity guided I think we already agree that there can be a suitable in-universe explanation, the details of which are unnecessary to the story.
The pull of Earth's gravity is almost as strong up at the International Space Station as it is at the surface. The astronauts are only weightless because they have so much horizontal velocity that they're literally falling around the Earth. In Star Wars the ships use magical repulsorlift tech, when disabled they would presumably start falling towards the nearest massive object.
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This is fair to say. While I enjoyed the movie, I was disappointed with the direction of the film in certain places. I don't hate what they did with Luke's character, but I felt there were some missed opportunities there.
You evidently missed the fact that Disney threw the EU out back in 2015. None of it is cannon. However, the newer films and Star Wars Rebels do draw from the EU from time to time. Essentially, the EU has a lot of garbage in it that comes across like fan fiction rather than a natural extension of the Star Wars mythos. There was also more EU than Disney knew what to do with so they threw it out to give filmmakers the freedom to tell the stories they wanted to without being boxed into an EU that's too massive to keep track of. Also, fitting into the confines of the EU would have prevented people who weren't super Star Wars nerds from understanding and enjoying all the material. Did you even watch the Force Awakens or Rogue One? Both threw out the EU by contradicting them. The events of Rogue One are in opposition to Kyle Katarns exploits in the Dark Forces video game. Hell, the prequel trilogy created issues for events in Heir to the Empire. The Force Awakens contradicts the Last Command Novel which was part of the Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn. The Last Jedi is largely in contradiction with anything told in the Jedi Academy and New Jedi Order stories.
There is no way you could have seen these movies and not noticed they threw the EU out the window a long time ago. Frankly, it's a decision that I agree with for the most part. While I think 75% or more of the EU is fine, the rest of it is total garbage and has no place in the Star Wars mythos. So far, the writers of the films and TV show have done a good job picking from the good stuff and throwing out the bad. That's not to say they couldn't do better, but I'm happy with the choices in a broad sense of what they pull and discard from the EU.
I couldn't agree more. While I liked the movie, I was disappointed by what I had imagined could have been done in this story and felt that it didn't live up to my expectations. However, that's my issue. I don't hold it against the filmmakers besides thinking there were some missed opportunities here. In a lot of ways the movie serves as a lesson going forward of what to do with future films and what not to do. Never the less, I enjoyed the film immensely despite the one really questionable scene. When I have some extra time I think I'll break the film down a bit with spoilers abounding and go over what I thought of it, and what I liked and didn't like. However, I thought they got more right than wrong.
naib
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Last Jedi is the first Star Wars movie to NOT feature any lightsaber duels (from the main SW movies, so Rogue One not included)...meaning 2 characters facing off with lightsabers...disappointing
in case anyone was wondering about the classic line "I got a bad feeling about this" which has been featured in every SW movie to date...Rian Johnson has confirmed that it was in the movie...only it wasn't spoken in English...BB-8 said the famous line during the opening battle...
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...r-wars-easter-egg_us_5a343517e4b01d429cc8bd59
in case anyone was wondering about the classic line "I got a bad feeling about this" which has been featured in every SW movie to date...Rian Johnson has confirmed that it was in the movie...only it wasn't spoken in English...BB-8 said the famous line during the opening battle...
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...r-wars-easter-egg_us_5a343517e4b01d429cc8bd59
naib
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which means they forgot and found a convenient get out of jail
I guess i was not clear when I said legacy (meaning pre-Disney (their classification of the old EU)) and current cannon. I am well aware of the trashing of the legacy cannon...
I am well aware of the legacy EU. Slight correction to your statement though, the Clone Wars series is still cannon (which is great)
I more or less included the legacy EU along with the current cannon to reinforce the fact that there is breadth to Star Wars far beyond the movies.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon
For those curious here's the Disney's cannon:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_media
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demondrops
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coz it's dosney. fck those fuckers! lol. george lucas made star wars cause he had a love and intelligence for making movies not for making profits, and most importantly is also the time he made those movies, they had a completely different impact at the time. george lucas star wars so far all the way from 1-6 it feels it have also some meaning maybe a deeper one also at times, but also some sort of depth to it.. they are going diehard milkyway so early, they have 1 spin-of another one coming. an entire new triology will come aswell. at this rate it will end up as friday the 13th 13 or something like it, they going to kill it of like they killed pirates. good CGi and great directors ++ and mindless action pacing isnt always a recipie for a great movie. maybe for young ppl but when u grow up and have watched so many movies, u get tired of the generic insert superhero movie, with basically same plot just different setting. boiled down, it's prety much as said actionblasting, world to save, giggles, bad guy, dead bad guy. but yeah i can still enjoy those movies, that is something else. im in no rush to watch the new movie, but i will. last one was decent i feel. but i think 3,4,5,6 was probably the best, u really get an idea of how he became darth vader and at the last moment of his life he finally as best as he could redeemed himself and was free from the dark side, that is why he have a force ghost at the ending.
Dayaks
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I felt like it would have been better for the movie if Leia had really died right after Kylo made that choice.
It feels like they try to do what they think the fans want all the time. I don't think I was ever shocked the entire 2.5 hrs.
It feels like they try to do what they think the fans want all the time. I don't think I was ever shocked the entire 2.5 hrs.
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4saken
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Pretty much this. I'd almost lump TLJ in with the prequels as far as quality goes. I left pretty disappointed.
Carrie Fisher died after filming so they couldn't really go back and change anything without having to change the whole movie...I think she will appear in Episode 9 as a force ghost along with Luke...I'm wondering if she will die off-screen during the movie or if they will make it so she died sometime in the years between Last Jedi and Episode 9
yup. this weekend some TV channel (I forget which) is playing one after another; saw :
The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, The Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith
and if I rearranged the order I just typed out and watched them in that new order without seeing the title at the beginning of the movies I'd be hard pressed to know which title went with which movie ... super boring CGI money making crapola movies. Action scenes mixed with many love scenes so they would suck in guys and gals alike ...
Star Trek The Movie and Into Darkness are excellent but Star Wars movies lost their zing years ago. Last release was good but not enough for me to watch it more than twice
regarding Spock's hand sign, did you know Leonard was a Hebrew and that hand sign is a real religious symbol? When I think about all the Atheists that have made that hand sign I have to chuckle at the imagery
It seems to me the people behind the movies are intent on not giving the fans what they'd like to see. "We know you'd like to see 'this', but we're not going to do that."
I waited since Return of the Jedi to see what happened afterwards, and we end up with the First Order who is almost a carbon copy of the Empire. I forgave that; I enjoyed The Force Awakens.
But I cannot say the same for Episode VIII. This is the Luke I've waited for? This is how powerful he's become? For all the hate on the prequels, they got the jedi correct. They got the different worlds right; they got different aliens right.
Fans want to see characters from other media, but no we're not going to do that. You're kidding yourself if you think Ahsoka or Ezra or someone will show up. At this point, it looks like we'll never see the Jedi order rebuilt on-screen. At this point I'm wondering if we'll see Rey become anything more than what she is.
Episode IX has a lot of redeeming to do in my eyes.
I waited since Return of the Jedi to see what happened afterwards, and we end up with the First Order who is almost a carbon copy of the Empire. I forgave that; I enjoyed The Force Awakens.
But I cannot say the same for Episode VIII. This is the Luke I've waited for? This is how powerful he's become? For all the hate on the prequels, they got the jedi correct. They got the different worlds right; they got different aliens right.
Fans want to see characters from other media, but no we're not going to do that. You're kidding yourself if you think Ahsoka or Ezra or someone will show up. At this point, it looks like we'll never see the Jedi order rebuilt on-screen. At this point I'm wondering if we'll see Rey become anything more than what she is.
Episode IX has a lot of redeeming to do in my eyes.
viscountalpha
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I agree...Luke is supposed to be the most powerful Jedi ever and I've been waiting to see him unleash his full powers...instead all we get is a hologram projection of him in battle and then he dies...and the Sith were way more interesting then these Knights of the Ren/First Order groups...and Emperor was way more bad ass then Snoke or Kylo...they really screwed up the villains in this new trilogy
Damar
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I think for a lot of the things Rian Johnson did, he thought he was being clever, whereas from the fans point of view he was just being a big dick.
Whole thing was still a snoozefest overall from my POV with only a couple of exciting moments.
Whole thing was still a snoozefest overall from my POV with only a couple of exciting moments.
naib
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D
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That video above is practically haunting, seriously, and Hamill makes a lot of great points - I mean, the character doesn't belong to him, and he did an excellent job playing Luke Skywalker (personal opinion) so I can see why he's changed himself just as Luke did over time and ended up feeling betrayed by his very existence (meaning the character) along with Hamill himself thinking it would end in a much better manner.
Just my take on the situation.
Just my take on the situation.
Guarana [BAWLS]
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All I'ma say here is that a whole bunch of y'all dense motherfuckers need to learn how to use the SPOILER TAG.
Seriously, don't be dicks. USE THE FUCKING TAG.
Seriously, don't be dicks. USE THE FUCKING TAG.
Not really, just making a fucking point. USE THE GOD DAMNED TAG.
4saken
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I recall Luke taking Star Destroyers out of the skys in the books. So why couldnt he come back and wreck the first orders shit. That i dont get.
Meh, if you want to avoid spoilers Guarana, don't read threads about them. I managed it back with TFA for a couple of months just fine. But then the prequels and my distrust of Jar Jar Abrams and Disney made that fairly easy.
I am getting a good laugh out of some of these defenses though. 4 boobied alien cows, carrie poppins, ww2 bombers in space scenes, corny jokes (prank calls bro!) can be ignored away I suppose. Yet the new two movies basically taking 3 childhood heroes for a generation or two of people, turning them into bitter loser failures and killing them off doesn't cheese you guys off? I've mostly lost interest in new star wars stuff over the past 15 years and even I'm amazed that disney went this route. Oh, and all the questions you had from TFA? Yeah, they don't get answered or are just tossed away. Why should I care about any of it? Reading spoilers and hearing reviews from people who saw it tell me all I need to know. Its dreck.
I am getting a good laugh out of some of these defenses though. 4 boobied alien cows, carrie poppins, ww2 bombers in space scenes, corny jokes (prank calls bro!) can be ignored away I suppose. Yet the new two movies basically taking 3 childhood heroes for a generation or two of people, turning them into bitter loser failures and killing them off doesn't cheese you guys off? I've mostly lost interest in new star wars stuff over the past 15 years and even I'm amazed that disney went this route. Oh, and all the questions you had from TFA? Yeah, they don't get answered or are just tossed away. Why should I care about any of it? Reading spoilers and hearing reviews from people who saw it tell me all I need to know. Its dreck.
Because they ignored stuff from the books.
it's your own fault for
1 not seeing the movie sooner
2 going on a forum with a title which will produce discussions and arguments where 'spoiler' tags will never get used