“The Last Jedi” Is the Most Divisive Star Wars Movie Between Fans and Critics

[SeymourGore]

- Who is Snoke! We get absolutely no background information on the most powerful enemy. Where did he come from? How did he become Supreme Lider? What is he?

I didn't expect him to last long but was expecting his origins to be expanded upon. Thought for sure he'd end up being a deformed clone of Palpatine (which would explain his quick rise and control of the First Order).

 

[Makaveli@BETA]

I saw it on Thursday. I really liked it. It's far from the best SW movie, but very entertaining. It's felt more like the original trilogy than EP 1-3. But there were a couple of things that really bothered me:

*Spoilers ahead*

- Apparently there's gravity in space in SW's universe. Just look at how the bombs "fall" on the ship. Oh, and a hatch opens for the bombs to exit the ship, but apparently space has atmosphere too! That or the crew can breathe in the vacuum of space.
- Leia flying back to the ship, Superman style. WTF!
- Who is Snoke! We get absolutely no background information on the most powerful enemy. Where did he come from? How did he become Supreme Lider? What is he?
- Luke's death was kinda lousy.

Overall I'll give it 7.5/10

While I agree that bombing scene had issues there is gravity in space.

 

[__hollywood|meow]

When they came out, they were fine, nobody bitched about anything.

i went to see them in theater & was completely let down, but okay. youre correct otherwise...the young george lucas magic was completely gone by the time the prequels came out. honestly i dont think theres anything to be done to fix it, as nobody cares to do justice to the source material who is in a position to do so.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

Just got back from seeing it again. It's fantastic

Funny that the same people who bitched about TFA being too similar to ANH are bitching about this one being too different from the other films. Everybody has to whine about something, I guess.

- Apparently there's gravity in space in SW's universe.

Pretty sure gravity works outside the atmosphere in our universe, too.

 

[Iceshot]

What went wrong? Star Wars is being produced by Disney who only cares about profitability and marketing. Good story telling and originality are "at best" a distant 3rd. Check out these two brilliant, amusing, yet sadly true messages about Disney that get at the heart of what I'm attempting to convey...

 

[Daishi123]

People aren't bitching because its different, they are bitching because:

1.) All the seeds planted in TFA was thrown into the shitter.
2.) Legit character assassination on Luke.
3.) Forced absolute crap characters on us with that stupid Casino/Hack Bullshit.
4.) Etc.

 

[mUdliLLy]

****POSSIBLE SPOILER OR TWO*****

I saw it last night and thought it was just OK. Definitely nothing more than average. I thought Rogue One was many times better. I'm ok that they want to move on from the old characters, generations come and go. However the deaths of the ones they have killed off have been very uneventful. Not setup well at all, no real emotion's attached to the death scene's. There were some just laughable parts in the movie. Biggest of which were Leia floating through space like superman. As others have said, having hollywood give the characters answers to problems by adding new things is awful. As in the new force powers.


Humor in some places are ok, however I personally believe they went overboard. Especially when Poe contacted the Empire's ship, just plain stupid. The fact they have a rebel base with a back entrance and had no clue it was there. All it took to find it is basically Poe saying there must be one there somewhere. One thing that really turns me off is Kylo Rhen (Napolean Dynomite) as the main antagonist. Yes, I know Adam Driver didn't play that part but he could have. Very poor casting. Also as someone mentioned already. It sure feels like they basically created the character of Rose just to insert an asian into the cast. I don't mind an array of gender and nationalities making up the cast at all, it gives it much better feel. However don' t cast people based on political correctness.

The last thing I will mention is Laura Dern had ABSOLUTELY no business in the Star Wars universe. She stuck out like a sore thumb and her nominal part was just plain terrible. Oh, as a footnote. Quit trying to insert cute cuddly "things" in every Star Wars movie.

By the end it started feeling less and less like Star Wars and was feeling more like an entirely new space adventure.

 

[Mav451]

Just got back from seeing it again. It's fantastic
Funny that the same people who bitched about TFA being too similar to ANH are bitching about this one being too different from the other films. Everybody has to whine about something, I guess.

Yeah I watched TFA at least 3x within the space of two weeks, but I'm not sure I'll repeat for TLJ. Doesn't mean I didn't love ALOT of the scenes (if you've seen it, you'll know there are some truly epic moments in this film). Put together, the film is actually less than the sum of its parts - if you get what I mean. I don't hate it, but I don't love it - but still necessary viewing.

The reddit threads comparing it to the prequels - that's just lots of reee from fans that built their expectations too high

I've said it elsewhere, but there was such a build-up to TFA, such catharsis, that nothing they do for Ep8 or 9 will really reach that same peak again.
People are searching for a high, somewhere, but they won't find it here.

 

[Business6]

I didn't expect him to last long but was expecting his origins to be expanded upon. Thought for sure he'd end up being a deformed clone of Palpatine (which would explain his quick rise and control of the First Order).

I imagine people would have been more happy with it overall if, instead of the goddamn casino subplot, that time was spent on detailing Snoke's background and throwing more Captain Phasma into the mix. I certainly would have preferred his situation to be more imposing and made him, ultimately, look like less of a chump. And again they completely fumbled with Phasma's character and had every chance to make her a powerful, vicious threat. I mean, if we see her again it's just for comedic purposes with "dying" twice. As they obviously have no idea what to do with her they might as well leave her be.

Worst scene: Leia's jesus moment. Best scene: Light speed shipsaw. Everyone in the theater gasped or said "oh shit," myself included. It was breathtakingly badass. It was a two for one scene as Dern's character was finally silenced.

Yes, I feel a lot of things were, for lack of a better term, hammy, but it was enjoyable overall. I'll see it again and make sure that if I have to hit the bathroom I'll do it during the casino nonsense.

 

[naib]

****POSSIBLE SPOILER OR TWO*****

I saw it last night and thought it was just OK. Definitely nothing more than average. I thought Rogue One was many times better. I'm ok that they want to move on from the old characters, generations come and go. However the deaths of the ones they have killed off have been very uneventful. Not setup well at all, no real emotion's attached to the death scene's. There were some just laughable parts in the movie. Biggest of which were Leia floating through space like superman. As others have said, having hollywood give the characters answers to problems by adding new things is awful. As in the new force powers.


Humor in some places are ok, however I personally believe they went overboard. Especially when Poe contacted the Empire's ship, just plain stupid. The fact they have a rebel base with a back entrance and had no clue it was there. All it took to find it is basically Poe saying there must be one there somewhere. One thing that really turns me off is Kylo Rhen (Napolean Dynomite) as the main antagonist. Yes, I know Adam Driver didn't play that part but he could have. Very poor casting. Also as someone mentioned already. It sure feels like they basically created the character of Rose just to insert an asian into the cast. I don't mind an array of gender and nationalities making up the cast at all, it gives it much better feel. However don' t cast people based on political correctness.

The last thing I will mention is Laura Dern had ABSOLUTELY no business in the Star Wars universe. She stuck out like a sore thumb and her nominal part was just plain terrible. Oh, as a footnote. Quit trying to insert cute cuddly "things" in every Star Wars movie.

By the end it started feeling less and less like Star Wars and was feeling more like an entirely new space adventure.

pretty much my feelings as well. Humour is all well and good but they went a bit OTT in this (kids loved it so meh...).
I quite like Adam Driver as Kylo he is playing the anguishing role of a sith convert well. The original 3 was all about Luke becoming a Jedi, The prequals all about the conversion to the darkside. The turmoil of the darkside was never touched upon and for this I like what Adam is doing (as long as this is the intent, otherwise he is just another Disney princess)

I wasn't expecting a massive backstory on Snoke but damn they could have let out who is he, now he could just die and be gone as the disney princess takes command...

Daisy (aka Rey) cannot act... The couple of scenes on the island with Luke was just monologuing

 

[SeymourGore]

I'm not sure how they could've saved Captain Phasma's character after her cowardly appearance in the Force Awakens. It was cool to see her armour reflect blaster fire, but after her cowardice that lead to the destruction of the Starkiller from TFA, I couldn't take her seriously as a villain.

One thing I'll add, I enjoyed the lightsabre battles in this one more than the prequel battles. Prequel duels looked phony whereas the battles in TLJ felt better (more visceral or something).

 

[cthulhuiscool]

Spoiler:
Deleted final scene

 

[DeathFromBelow]

I imagine people would have been more happy with it overall if, instead of the goddamn casino subplot, that time was spent on detailing Snoke's background and throwing more Captain Phasma into the mix.

Snoke was handled perfectly. It was a total surprise and the guard fight afterwards was great.

Phasma was like Fett. What else did she really have to contribute to the story at that point?

Ill see it again and make sure that if I have to hit the bathroom I'll do it during the casino nonsense.

I didn't care for the casino/infiltration scene either until I realized how everything is tied together in this film. The greatest teacher, failure is.

 

[SixFootDuo]

Kansas City has one last TRUE IMAX Screen left ( 6 Stories Tall with Steep Stadium Styled Seating ) at the Extreme Screen Union Station.

Any of you young guys here in your 20's and maybe even early 30's have never seen a true IMAX screen. They took the IMAX brand name and plastered in on normal fucking screens well over a decade ago.

Seeing it there tomorrow at 1130AM for $5 dollars a person. All very modern.

I'll make up my own mind tomorrow and see how many agree with me. I'm more than capable of deciding on my own if a movie is good. I do not let others decide for me.

 

[MacLeod]

i went to see them in theater & was completely let down, but okay. youre correct otherwise...the young george lucas magic was completely gone by the time the prequels came out. honestly i dont think theres anything to be done to fix it, as nobody cares to do justice to the source material who is in a position to do so.

They weren't perfect and he went way overboard with CGI that made it feel like a cartoon but they were still good movies and nothing like the hate they get nowadays from all the cool kids.

I think you're right tho that it's not gonna be fixed. They should just sever these new Abrams movies from Star Wars altogether. They'd make much better sci-fi movies than Star Wars movies.... And yes there is a difference.

 

[sirsad]

if you've seen it, you'll know there are some truly epic moments in this film)

What epic moments?

 

[Mav451]

Sounds like they weren't epic to you then

It's all a matter of perspective I suppose.

 

[Dan_D]

THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS and may hurt fans feelings. You have been warned.

Spoiler: Don't read this shit.

I blame pre-game hype, plot holes large enough to slide a DreadNought through lengthwise and the frozen Peter Quill mary poppins finger twitchey spaceflight bullshit.

SPOILERS OVER
Hey, but it was long.

The scene you are referring to is the only thing I had any major problems with in the movie. There are things I would have liked to have seen handled differently, but they didn't do a bad job with the movie. I think I understand what it is that people don't like about it, but that really can't be discussed without getting into spoiler territory.

 

[naib]

What epic moments?

the hyperspace suicide comes to mind. The director did a good job in silencing everything. however epic it is, it does cause some continuity issues... this should not be possible and raises the question ... why wasn't this used until now? hyperspace missiles could have taken out the deathstars...

 

[Dan_D]

the hyperspace suicide comes to mind. The director did a good job in silencing everything

My only issue with that, is that it was easily the most predictible moment in the film. That said, I agree with you in that it was handled very well.

 

[Iceshot]

While I have not yet seen The Last Jedi, I know how much I detested The Force Awakens. Screen Junkies nailed it (see below) so I have very low expectations for The Last Jedi. Disney is the EA of motion pictures, it's where great Intellectual Property goes to die and be reborn into shameless cash grabs and marketing ploy's.

 

[naib]

My only issue with that, is that it was easily the most predictible moment in the film. That said, I agree with you in that it was handled very well.

Oh I have issues with the scene (I edited my last post) but cinematic-ally it was nice

 

[ChadD]

People hate the prequels cause its cool to hate the prequels.

People hate jar jar cause everyone else says they hate jar jar. Ya I didn't love that one... but everything in star wars looks a bit silly to adult eyes.

I had kids that where at the right age to enjoy the prequels and they did. I was the right age to enjoy the 4 5 6... and I did. I have a daughter who is the exact right age to love these and she has... she loves Rey. I read all the Mary Sue BS comments back with TFA and thought fuck all you guys... cause the its no different then the shit that happened in the first one. Unless we are all to believe that one day with Old Ben was somehow in depth jedi training and Luke didn't pull that death star kill shot out his ass. When TFA came out and it was clear they where remixing and the new Luke was Rey... the huge grin on my daughters face sold me instantly. She had the same grin I did when I watched the first one as a 7 year old. She loved TLJ when we went last night... and yes it reminded me how I felt seeing empire as a kid. NOOOOO. If we where all 30-40 somethings in 1977 we would have likely been shaking our heads at the silly space movie the kids seem to be loving with the stupid taking golden suit wearing men.

 

[Filiprino]

In the prequels you get Yoda making an awesome duel and use of the force.
In the sequels you don't even get Luke to do a proper physical appereance, just a projection which kills him because that drains his midiclorians' Force.
Bullshit.

Old Ben waited until Luke was ready to train him, but died before he could do so. Luke went after Yoda and there he received proper training. Both Ben and Yoda had to be hidden because the Empire wanted to kill them.
Luke hides because he feels sorry for not being able to stop Kylo from falling to the dark side. Oh, come one! Obi-Wan could not stop Anakin doing so. And he did not went into depression. He continued to be a Jedi Master, like Yoda and like any other Jedi would do.

On top of that you see Leia surviving space and using the Force to return to a ship. That is plainly impossible. Leia has not been trained in the Force before. She does not have any Force power beyond what Anakin had as a child (a connection with the Force, prediction of immediate future and in Leia's case, a connection with his brother).

This drives us to the fact that Rey can manipulate the minds as if she was trained. And we know that it is not possible unless something they invent in Episode IX. Given how the series have developed until now, we can not expect anything half decent unless they shoot a 5 hours long movie. She can do everything.

Do you need in your plot hole to have a character doing something? BAM You got it! The Force Just Made It For You! (TFJMIFY).

 

[sfsuphysics]

What went wrong? Star Wars is being produced by Disney who only cares about profitability and marketing. Good story telling and originality are "at best" a distant 3rd. Check out these two brilliant, amusing, yet sadly true messages about Disney that get at the heart of what I'm attempting to convey...

Because Episodes 1,2,3 still owned by Lucas were such masterpieces ?

 

[Dan_D]

People hate the prequels cause its cool to hate the prequels.

People hate jar jar cause everyone else says they hate jar jar. Ya I didn't love that one... but everything in star trek looks a bit silly to adult eyes.

I had kids that where at the right age to enjoy the prequels and they did. I was the right age to enjoy the 4 5 6... and I did. I have a daughter who is the exact right age to love these and she has... she loves Rey. I read all the Mary Sue BS comments back with TFA and thought fuck all you guys... cause the its no different then the shit that happened in the first one. Unless we are all to believe that one day with Old Ben was somehow in depth jedi training and Luke didn't pull that death star kill shot out his ass. When TFA came out and it was clear they where remixing and the new Luke was Rey... the huge grin on my daughters face sold me instantly. She had the same grin I did when I watched the first one as a 7 year old. She loved TLJ when we went last night... and yes it reminded me how I felt seeing empire as a kid. NOOOOO. If we where all 30-40 somethings in 1977 we would have likely been shaking our heads at the silly space movie the kids seem to be loving with the stupid taking golden suit wearing men.

No, I hate the prequels because they are genuinely bad. The basic story for them is fine, but the devil is in the details and those details, bad writing, and groan inducing dialog make them worse than the other Star Wars films. Many of it's characters are beyond annoying. Jar Jar is lame because he's irritating. He is meant to be funny but he isn't. The Gungans were all annoying when you get down to it. Episode II is bad because of the forced romance and bad casting decisions. Some of the dialog is bad and the movie suffers from horrible pacing in spots. Conceptually it's fine. It's the execution that's lacking. Episode III is almost a good movie but the last 15 minutes of it ruin the rest of what would have been a decent film. The Force Awakens, for all the shit it gets is a decent movie. It's not terribly original but Star Wars has always been about how cyclical things are. The Last Jedi illustrates this theme perfectly.

I even liked Rogue One. As a story and an addition to the Star Wars universe, I have to say that it was a good entry. In many ways it's a better movie than pretty much all the Star Wars films. The problem with that movie is that it doesn't have enough of that magic that the other movies do. There is something about them that's hard to quantify. If I think about The Force Awakens vs. Rogue One objectively, I think the latter was a better movie. However, The Force Awakens entertains me more.

 

[Sonicks]

**Last Jedi spoilers**

Rian Johnson must wield some real power over at Disney because he basically threw away every major concept that JJ Abrams started Force Awakens with--- Snoke, Captain Phasma, Luke etc...I think it's also obvious that he wants to move on past the Skywalker saga and create his own SW universe...he basically treated Admiral Ackbar like a redshirt death, didn't give Luke the respect he deserved, gave Leia goofy Superman powers etc...wouldn't the final scene on that red mineral planet been so much better if the real Luke had been battling those First Order troops and Kylo Ren...we would finally get to see the most powerful Jedi ever show his full powers...would have been something George Lucas would have definitely shown...instead we get some crappy Jedi projection...I mean he dies anyway so why not have him die in a blaze of actual glory

and what's up with Snoke??...they made him look like a total idiot by him not realizing that Kylo Ren was about to use Rey's lightsaber to kill him...makes the whole character look like a waste of time...I saw it on a Dolby Cinema screen and the visuals were amazing...the battle sequences were also really impressive...overall I give Last Jedi an 8/10 if I'm being generous but really it's more of a 7.5

Spoilers:

You seem to confuse the director with the screenwriter. Place your hate on the latter.

The bit with Snoke is easily explainable if you bothered to listen to what he Soke was saying. He said he could see in Kylo that he would kill the person that deserved it (paraphrasing). To Kylo that was Snoke himself but Snoke misinterpreteted that as being Rey. He saw it coming he just read it wrong.

Pretty elementary stuff.

 

[ChadD]

Luke hides because he feels sorry for not being able to stop Kylo from falling to the dark side.

(I don't know if there is any point in saying spoilers if anyone is really reading this thread not having seen this movie)

Luke wasn't hiding because Kylo fell. He was hiding because he fell. You seem to have been watching a different movie then the one I watched. Luke came within a breath of putting a lightsaber through his Sister and best friends kid. HE is the one who fell. He has at this point found the jedis first temple and read all their books... he knows now exactly why Jedi must have no attachments. It is logical that he would come to the conclusion (and the movie I thought was clear about that) that the jedi must end because NO one will ever be able to live completely in the light. He understands that believing it possible is hubris... and that is the down fall of every jedi (and sith). The only solution is to end it all... which I thought was fantastic as it was very much the same conclusion Kylo came to as well. (although he still seems to want to rule the universe anyway).

 

[ChadD]

No, I hate the prequels because they are genuinely bad. The basic story for them is fine, but the devil is in the details and those details, bad writing, and groan inducing dialog make them worse than the other Star Wars films. Many of it's characters are beyond annoying. Jar Jar is lame because he's irritating. He is meant to be funny but he isn't. The Gungans were all annoying when you get down to it. Episode II is bad because of the forced romance and bad casting decisions. Some of the dialog is bad and the movie suffers from horrible pacing in spots. Conceptually it's fine. It's the execution that's lacking. Episode III is almost a good movie but the last 15 minutes of it ruin the rest of what would have been a decent film. The Force Awakens, for all the shit it gets is a decent movie. It's not terribly original but Star Wars has always been about how cyclical things are. The Last Jedi illustrates this theme perfectly.

I even liked Rogue One. As a story and an addition to the Star Wars universe, I have to say that it was a good entry. In many ways it's a better movie than pretty much all the Star Wars films. The problem with that movie is that it doesn't have enough of that magic that the other movies do. There is something about them that's hard to quantify. If I think about The Force Awakens vs. Rogue One objectively, I think the latter was a better movie. However, The Force Awakens entertains me more.

I too really liked Rouge one... and almost would have rather gotten Star Wars universe stories non stop then 7 8 9.

In general I agree with you about the prequels. I would simply say that if we are really really being honest. Empire is perhaps the only SW movie that ever seemed to rise above its campy nature. Jedi for sure had the same sort of overly cute, and somewhat annoying aliens... General Akbar sure we all love him but come on he is pretty ridiculous, we simply saw him first though our kid eyes. (I'm assuming like me you where a kid at the time)

 

[SeymourGore]

So, now that it seems pretty obvious that Kylo and Rey will fall in love, balancing the Force by combining the Jedi and Sith religions - I wonder who the new big bad will be?

I wouldn't mind seeing a new Mandalorian war.

 

[Iceshot]

Because Episodes 1,2,3 still owned by Lucas were such masterpieces ?

I have my fair share of criticisms about them, but on the whole they were original, well written, produced & acted, and you cared / got sucked into the story. Not as epic as say Lord of the Rings, but I looked forward to the next installment. The Force Awakens was cinematically stunning, but little more than A New Hope retold (see 6 minute video I posted above) with different characters and lots of bad acting / story. I honestly finished The Force awakens and was disgusted with it. I'm no Lucas fanboi or Star Wars purist. Just really disappointed about with new films under Disney's vision.

 

[Dan_D]

Spoiler: Spoilers you shouldn't read unless you want to read my response and see how wrong this statement was.

In the prequels you get Yoda making an awesome duel and use of the force.
In the sequels you don't even get Luke to do a proper physical appereance, just a projection which kills him because that drains his midiclorians' Force.
Bullshit.

Old Ben waited until Luke was ready to train him, but died before he could do so. Luke went after Yoda and there he received proper training. Both Ben and Yoda had to be hidden because the Empire wanted to kill them.
Luke hides because he feels sorry for not being able to stop Kylo from falling to the dark side. Oh, come one! Obi-Wan could not stop Anakin doing so. And he did not went into depression. He continued to be a Jedi Master, like Yoda and like any other Jedi would do.

On top of that you see Leia surviving space and using the Force to return to a ship. That is plainly impossible. Leia has not been trained in the Force before. She does not have any Force power beyond what Anakin had as a child (a connection with the Force, prediction of immediate future and in Leia's case, a connection with his brother).

This drives us to the fact that Rey can manipulate the minds as if she was trained. And we know that it is not possible unless something they invent in Episode IX. Given how the series have developed until now, we can not expect anything half decent unless they shoot a 5 hours long movie.

Someone wasn't paying attention.

Spoiler: More spoilers you shouldn't read.

First off, no one ever said Luke drains his midiclorians. In fact, the midiclorians aren't the force. They are what allows some people to control the force. Nothing more. He doesn't deplete them, he does something that's so taxing that his body gives out. This is even keeping with the lore. He's an old man buy that point. Aged 40 years after Return of the Jedi.

Your second point isn't really a point at all because Luke had very little formal training in the force. Most Jedi trained for decades during the height of the Jedi Order. However, some people are savants with the force and pick things up quickly. Kylo and Rey were both said to be this way. The force is an aspect of nature in the Star Wars universe. One that is self-balancing. Yoda's final lesson to Luke in this film is that the books and texts of the Jedi Order do not make Jedi what they are. Ultimately, what Luke needed to teach Rey was about failure. Furthermore, both Yoda and Obi-Wan, two of the greatest Jedi of their time both went into hiding as Luke did. These were his mentors, it stands to reason that he might follow suit.

The part about Leia I agree with in part. We have no evidence that Leia had no training in the force. Over 40 years it stands to reason that she did. It was clearly not something she made a priority in her life. That doesn't mean she's incapable of using it even to significant degree.

However, I do agree that the scene was bullshit. If she had ample time to prepare for getting spaced, I could maybe see her being able to do something like that. She was freezing and crystalizing when she suddenly woke up and then used the force to propell herself back to the ship. That's why that scene is bullshit. A Jedi can be surprised and killed. We've seen other Jedi get spaced and die.

Again, Rey is a savant in the force. Something which is hardly unprecidented. It's happened many, many times in the EU which these films draw from to an extent. We've also seen it with Anakin and the Skywalker line. We've also seen it from others in the various canon material from time to time. The force isn't necessarily hereditary. As Snoke puts it: "When darkness rises, light will rise to meet it." The force is self-balancing like the rain cycle on Earth. That's just how it is. A teacher isn't required. Someone had to discover the force and learn of it's mysteries on their own in order to create the Jedi Order. She's simply the first of a new generation of Jedi. Luke passed on the most important lesson to Rey. He taught her what failure looks like and made her understand why the Jedi Order failed. He taught her not to be overconfident and believe in your own legendary status. It's the same lesson that cost him his right hand and later, his Jedi Academy and students.

 

[Dan_D]

I have my fair share of criticisms about them, but on the whole they were original, well written, produced & acted, and you cared / got sucked into the story. Not as epic as say Lord of the Rings, but I looked forward to the next installment. The Force Awakens was cinematically stunning, but little more than A New Hope retold (see 6 minute video I posted above) with different characters and lots of bad acting / story. I honestly finished The Force awakens and was disgusted with it. I'm no Lucas fanboi or Star Wars purist. Just really disappointed about with new films under Disney's vision.

They aren't well written, nor are they original. In many ways, they echo the original triligy. Hell, Episode I has the same exact structure as ROTJ.

 

[sirsad]

The scene you are referring to is the only thing I had any major problems with in the movie. There are things I would have liked to have seen handled differently, but they didn't do a bad job with the movie. I think I understand what it is that people don't like about it, but that really can't be discussed without getting into spoiler territory.

You didn't have a problem with how those Tie Fighters would have easily taken out Leia's Ship but they were called off to save them? The rebels treated their pilots as disposable when that is what evil would have done.

 

[Dan_D]

So, now that it seems pretty obvious that Kylo and Rey will fall in love, balancing the Force by combining the Jedi and Sith religions - I wonder who the new big bad will be?

I wouldn't mind seeing a new Mandalorian war.

In the context of Star Wars, a Mandalorian war seems unlikely. There are very few Mandalorians around at present. 40 years from Episode IV's time frame isn't enough to change that without another clone wars. I don't think we'll see Rey and Kylo go down that road. I think Kylo will be the bad guy going foward into the new movie. It doesn't make much sense to introduce a new one for the final installment of this trilogy. They've made a few missteps but that's not one I see them making.

 

[Dan_D]

You didn't have a problem with how those Tie Fighters would have easily taken out Leia's Ship but they were called off to save them? The rebels treated their pilots as disposable when that is what evil would have done.

Of all the issues I can take with the film, no, that's not really one of them. The First Order isn't the Galactic Empire. They seem to value their resources more than the Empire did. Ostensibly because they are far more finite. Despite the First Order being more massive than anyone could have imagined, it's still not the Galactic Empire.

The Rebels have far more finite resources. In fact, we pretty much saw the whole Rebellion in the movie. The problem is that they were put into situations where they had little choice but to expend those lives. Po even gets chewed out and demoted for taking unnecessary risks.

 

[HotBBQ]

Kansas City has one last TRUE IMAX Screen left ( 6 Stories Tall with Steep Stadium Styled Seating ) at the Extreme Screen Union Station.

The Mugar Omni Theater at the Museum of Science, in Boston, begs to differ.

 

[sirsad]

the hyperspace suicide comes to mind. The director did a good job in silencing everything. however epic it is, it does cause some continuity issues... this should not be possible and raises the question ... why wasn't this used until now? hyperspace missiles could have taken out the deathstars...

It's no different than adding a bigger explosion to a death star. Hollywood showboating

 

[Filiprino]

The Jedi Order did not believe having a legendary status and they did not teach to be overconfident. They always said the dark side is always a danger. Yoda himself told Luke so.

In ROTJ Luke avoided the temptation of the dark side and attachment was precisely what allowed Darth Vader to return to the bright side of the force, and become again Anakin Skywalker.

Someone wasn't paying attention.

Spoiler: More spoilers you shouldn't read.

First off, no one ever said Luke drains his midiclorians. In fact, the midiclorians aren't the force. They are what allows some people to control the force. Nothing more. He doesn't deplete them, he does something that's so taxing that his body gives out. This is even keeping with the lore. He's an old man buy that point. Aged 40 years after Return of the Jedi.

Your second point isn't really a point at all because Luke had very little formal training in the force. Most Jedi trained for decades during the height of the Jedi Order. However, some people are savants with the force and pick things up quickly. Kylo and Rey were both said to be this way. The force is an aspect of nature in the Star Wars universe. One that is self-balancing. Yoda's final lesson to Luke in this film is that the books and texts of the Jedi Order do not make Jedi what they are. Ultimately, what Luke needed to teach Rey was about failure. Furthermore, both Yoda and Obi-Wan, two of the greatest Jedi of their time both went into hiding as Luke did. These were his mentors, it stands to reason that he might follow suit.

The part about Leia I agree with in part. We have no evidence that Leia had no training in the force. Over 40 years it stands to reason that she did. It was clearly not something she made a priority in her life. That doesn't mean she's incapable of using it even to significant degree.

However, I do agree that the scene was bullshit. If she had ample time to prepare for getting spaced, I could maybe see her being able to do something like that. She was freezing and crystalizing when she suddenly woke up and then used the force to propell herself back to the ship. That's why that scene is bullshit. A Jedi can be surprised and killed. We've seen other Jedi get spaced and die.

Again, Rey is a savant in the force. Something which is hardly unprecidented. It's happened many, many times in the EU which these films draw from to an extent. We've also seen it with Anakin and the Skywalker line. We've also seen it from others in the various canon material from time to time. The force isn't necessarily hereditary. As Snoke puts it: "When darkness rises, light will rise to meet it." The force is self-balancing like the rain cycle on Earth. That's just how it is. A teacher isn't required. Someone had to discover the force and learn of it's mysteries on their own in order to create the Jedi Order. She's simply the first of a new generation of Jedi. Luke passed on the most important lesson to Rey. He taught her what failure looks like and made her understand why the Jedi Order failed. He taught her not to be overconfident and believe in your own legendary status. It's the same lesson that cost him his right hand and later, his Jedi Academy and students.

 

[Dan_D]

The Jedi Order did not believe having a legendary status and they did not teach to be overconfident. They always said the dark side is always a danger. Yoda himself told Luke so.

In ROTJ Luke avoided the temptation of the dark side and attachment was precisely what allowed Darth Vader to return to the bright side of the force, and become again Anakin Skywalker.

No, that was a lesson that Luke had to teach Rey about himself. Although, that does actually add nicely to the lesson that the Jedi Order's downfall was because of it's own hubris. Which is true. The Jedi always taught that the darkness was a danger and emotion should be avoided, but this like many things the Jedi thought was not entirely true as it isn't an absolute. I think Luke was still caught up in the belief that it was during that lesson.