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Starcraft II

lobski2 said:
I must've have missed your post.

Also, if I HAVE to lose a few games before progressing, I think the ranking system is broken and/or stupid. Why does it not permit players that win often to progress? Why must they lose a bit?

Anyway, I don't think I want to lose a few on purpose. I just got three wins! :p
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Yeah makes no sense whatsoever to me either. I won 8 in a row and something like 15 of 16 over a few days and no movement whatsoever...I can't wait for Season 2.
 
lobski2 said:
I must've have missed your post.

Also, if I HAVE to lose a few games before progressing, I think the ranking system is broken and/or stupid. Why does it not permit players that win often to progress? Why must they lose a bit?

Anyway, I don't think I want to lose a few on purpose. I just got three wins! :p
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You don't have to lose by any means. It's just a myth.

I've already said it before in this thread several times, but promotion is based off a confidence interval. It just so happens that if you lose when the system expects you to lose, then even if you lose a little bit of MMR, your lower bound could very well increase enough to put you above the promotional threshold.
 
Yeah, there's a Blizzcon discussion panel that describes how the system works. The rank itself really isn't that important, as your opponents don't suddenly jump in difficulty. It will always be a gradual rise in difficulty. Though it's not something you could "grind" your way up, you still have to play far more than 20 games for the system to "know" you. There's also the fact that the amount of points you get depend on the relative ratings of your opponents. You basically just have to have the confidence as a player to keep churning out games, not as someone trying to eek out a promotion. :p
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
You don't have to lose by any means. It's just a myth.

I've already said it before in this thread several times, but promotion is based off a confidence interval. It just so happens that if you lose when the system expects you to lose, then even if you lose a little bit of MMR, your lower bound could very well increase enough to put you above the promotional threshold.
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Maybe Im misunderstanding you but are you contradicting yourself? :confused:

I dont see how you can get promoted if you dont lose. I was stuck for a long time because i was barely losing.
 
ThumperSD said:
Maybe Im misunderstanding you but are you contradicting yourself? :confused:

I dont see how you can get promoted if you dont lose. I was stuck for a long time because i was barely losing.
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I never said you will be guaranteed to be promoted if you don't lose. It may be difficult to be promoted if you never lose based on matchups, but it's not impossible. I have a 31-0 platinum team that is stuck in plat.

This is my 4v4 diamond division:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/265412/1/ZannX/ladder/9875#current-rank

There are three teams on there that are undefeated and plenty with very high win/loss.

Along the lines of what I said earlier, your best bet is to simply play according to the system and realize how it works. In that respect, beat teams you are favored/even against and if you're going to 'throw games', then throw them against teams that are favored against you. I was actually in a very similar situation a week ago with my friend in 2v2. We were aiming for diamond (his first 2v2 diamond team), and we went something like 24-2. We then threw a few games against favored teams and won against even / teams we were favored against. Lo and behold we were put in diamond. It took 37 games (not the usual ~30), which is why we played the system after we realized that we were missing the 30 game checkpoint.
 
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Jump on Day[9] and check out the DreamHack StealSeries Tournament finals between Naama and MaNa. The games are amazing.
 
Wow don't you guys hate players that just bark out orders all game long? They think they're just damn good and everyone else is awful. I ran into a guy like that last night in... of all places... 3v3 coop.

He started off with a failed cannon rush against the AI and started barking orders to me and our other teammate. I bailed him out of the failed cannon rush and he was still on my ass telling me what he wanted me to do and pinging everywhere. I had enough and told him I knew how to play and to just chill out. We won the game easily without his 'leadership'... not sure what the big deal was.

He then retorted and started telling me I'm awful and 'couldn't wait to profile my bronze ass'. Oh the irony. I hope he really did profile me after the game.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Wow don't you guys hate players that just bark out orders all game long? They think they're just damn good and everyone else is awful. I ran into a guy like that last night in... of all places... 3v3 coop.

He started off with a failed cannon rush against the AI and started barking orders to me and our other teammate. I bailed him out of the failed cannon rush and he was still on my ass telling me what he wanted me to do and pinging everywhere. I had enough and told him I knew how to play and to just chill out. We won the game easily without his 'leadership'... not sure what the big deal was.

He then retorted and started telling me I'm awful and 'couldn't wait to profile my bronze ass'. Oh the irony. I hope he really did profile me after the game.
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lol... having orders screamed around (not in noobish way, however) works wonders in Star Base. Otherwise, noobs die very easy in that map/match.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Wow don't you guys hate players that just bark out orders all game long? They think they're just damn good and everyone else is awful. I ran into a guy like that last night in... of all places... 3v3 coop.

He started off with a failed cannon rush against the AI and started barking orders to me and our other teammate. I bailed him out of the failed cannon rush and he was still on my ass telling me what he wanted me to do and pinging everywhere. I had enough and told him I knew how to play and to just chill out. We won the game easily without his 'leadership'... not sure what the big deal was.

He then retorted and started telling me I'm awful and 'couldn't wait to profile my bronze ass'. Oh the irony. I hope he really did profile me after the game.
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Yea yesterday one guy was like "why are you making colossi against stalkers?" He was a zerg player and clearly doesnt understand PvP.
 
I am a zerg guy and constantly see colossi get pwned by stalkers. Is there something wrong with that.... perhaps I dont get it?
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Wow don't you guys hate players that just bark out orders all game long? They think they're just damn good and everyone else is awful. I ran into a guy like that last night in... of all places... 3v3 coop.

He started off with a failed cannon rush against the AI and started barking orders to me and our other teammate. I bailed him out of the failed cannon rush and he was still on my ass telling me what he wanted me to do and pinging everywhere. I had enough and told him I knew how to play and to just chill out. We won the game easily without his 'leadership'... not sure what the big deal was.

He then retorted and started telling me I'm awful and 'couldn't wait to profile my bronze ass'. Oh the irony. I hope he really did profile me after the game.
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That's awful. Hope this doesn't poop on your experience with coop, as it can be a bit fun, and works great as a testing ground for new strategies. Personally, I haven't ran into douche bags like that. I do occasionally get the "leader" type guy in a party, but it's never obstructive. Not yet, anyway. Wish you a better luck next time.
 
Deluded said:
I am a zerg guy and constantly see colossi get pwned by stalkers. Is there something wrong with that.... perhaps I dont get it?
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Stalkers are relatively large (compared to say marines and Hydras) so Colossi hit less of them with each attack.

Stalkers can blink into range of a colossus and focus fire it down quickly.

Stalkers are relatively high hp and low dps which is the opposite of units that colossi are made to roast.

That said though... Colossi are still pretty good against stalkers if you control them properly and use forcefields strategically.

That's awful. Hope this doesn't poop on your experience with coop, as it can be a bit fun, and works great as a testing ground for new strategies. Personally, I haven't ran into douche bags like that. I do occasionally get the "leader" type guy in a party, but it's never obstructive. Not yet, anyway. Wish you a better luck next time.
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Oh I wasn't phased by it at all. Coop is still by far the best place to find calm and friendly players though. I've played over 750 coop games (almost 250 with T and Z, got 250 with toss a few days ago). So out of that many games and only 1 asshole isn't bad at all. The 3rd guy was my friend so we just laughed it out in PM's.
 
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How the hell does Blizzard push a patch and consider the Thor targeting ground units over medivacs enough of a balance change? Thors with SCVs are still GD invincible and units still attack the Thor instead of the units repairing it. Bullshit.
 
petertew said:
How the hell does Blizzard push a patch and consider the Thor targeting ground units over medivacs enough of a balance change? Thors with SCVs are still GD invincible and units still attack the Thor instead of the units repairing it. Bullshit.
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That wasn't a balance change... It was more just polishing AI. You can trick thors using overlords and such since they target air units from much further away.
 
woah, fungle growth got a bit nerfed... though I never had a lot of situations where air units could be stopped effectively with fungal growth. Makes it the same as forcefield, now, though it still causes damage :D
 
jeremyshaw said:
woah, fungle growth got a bit nerfed... though I never had a lot of situations where air units could be stopped effectively with fungal growth. Makes it the same as forcefield, now, though it still causes damage :D
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Blizzard clearly wanted phoenix to be the go to harassment unit as protoss (removed VR move speed upgrade, heavily buffed phoenix build time).

The problem is that they forgot about ZvZ. FG + Hydras were the only real response to mutas. If the mutas can't be FG'd anymore, then it's going to just be a shitshow. Z has too many easy to pick off targets like overlords and queens. Static defense is too costly because it eats up drones. Previously the muta player had to be very cautious or at least not over commit to mutas since one well placed FG would be game ending.

Can someone please be so kind and post the changes here ? Thanks in advance
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There's A LOT of notes... I'll post the non-bug fixes and the non-map editor changes (although personally I found a lot of the map editor changes very good / interesting, but I guess most people wouldn't have a clue).

General

Battle.net


• Battle.net Chat Channels have been added:

-- Players can now join others in both public and private channels.

-- Added in-game chat bar command to whisper to other players. Using the /w command will pop up an auto-complete list which includes: friends, party members, chat channels, and other players within your current game.


• Added a Battle.net option to auto-join previous private channels.

• Added a Battle.net option to prevent chat channel text from appearing in the in-game chat display.


Custom Maps


• Map makers can now use custom UI layout files to create new UI or override existing game UI.


Gameplay


• Stalemate Detection has been added:

-- The game will end in a tie for all remaining players if no players have income, production, or destroyed any structures for three consecutive minutes.

-- A countdown timer will now appear when the game detects this scenario.


• Several help dialogue and tech tree improvements have been made:

-- In-game help is now available in Battle.net.

-- The help dialog’s tech tree has been improved.

-- Unit information in the help dialog now displays abilities and upgrades.


• Selecting different units in quick succession will now fade out existing replies to play the most recent reply.

• When selecting a Vespene Geyser, the number of current harvesters will be displayed in the info panel.



Graphics


• An Extreme graphics option has been added:

-- Players can now configure screen space ambient occlusion.

-- Unit information in the help dialog now displays abilities and upgrades.



Interface


• Customizable Hotkey Support has been added.

• Mouse buttons can now be bound to the Push-To-Talk hotkey.

• System Alert panel has been moved to the top of the screen – duration of most system alerts has been reduced.

Added a hotkey to Pause/Resume game for both single-player and multiplayer (Pause/Break key).

• Added a toggle button to the in-game replay panel to show or hide duration information.

• Added a hotkey indicator option to show the primary hotkey on top of command buttons.

• Added an option to disable any error sounds. The Response Sounds checkbox now controls whether unit-specific audio is used for error sounds instead of a generic buzz.



Leagues and Ladders


• A new Master League has been added.

-- This league now represents the highest tier of ladder players.



Replays


• Several Save/Replay File dialogue improvements have been made:

-- Prints current directory name above file list.

-- Added sort order icons to Name and Date columns.

-- Added the ability to rename.

-- Added filters for Autosave and Unsaved.

-- Added an option to permanently save all replays. Checking this option will mark all unsaved replays as being saved.


• Camera following behavior for observers and replays has been improved.



Balance

• PROTOSS


-- Hallucination research time decreased from 110 to 80.

-- Observer

Cost decreased from 50/100 to 25/75.

-- Phoenix
Build time decreased from 45 to 35.

-- Void Ray

Now deals 20% more damage to massive targets.

Flux Vanes speed upgrade removed.


• TERRAN


-- Bunker

Build time decreased from 35 to 30.

This is only a temporary change for the patch 1.2.0 PTR.


-- SCV

Repairing SCVs now assume the same threat priority as the unit they’re repairing.

SCV construction movement made more consistent.


• ZERG


-- Infestor

Fungal Growth no longer affects air units.
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Yeah, I'll have to see what the pros come up with to counter this. I have little imagination of my own :p
 
My favorite spell is getting a huge nerf :( Not too happy about that. I hope this change will not get approved.
 
lobski2 said:
Void lost speed upgrade.


THE TEARS OF VOID SPAMMERS NEVER TASTED SO GOOD
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They want people to realize that phoenix aren't to be made when battlecruisers are fielded. They always intended voids to be anti-massive units (the real reason behind the dmg behavior as opposed to leveling a command center in 20 seconds). They always intended phoenix to be the harassing unit. There's no reason for voids to move fast if they aren't meant to be a hit and run harassment unit.
 
-- SCV

Repairing SCVs now assume the same threat priority as the unit they’re repairing.

halle-goddamn-lujah
 
fullvietFX said:
Does this mean they'll attack whatever is attacking what they're repairing? :confused:
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no it means you attack whatever is repairing what you're attacking, if they're the nearest enemy in range. so what they will do is kill all the scv in range, then go for the thor. this way you lose at least half of any scv you repair with, unless you micro them only to repair from behind.
 
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mas said:
no it means you attack whatever is repairing what you're attacking, if they're the nearest enemy in range, as long as you just do an attack-move instead of force attack.
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what was it previously? Did the unit AI (not the game AI) prioritize SCVs higher? Or the repaird unit higher?
 
jeremyshaw said:
what was it previously? Did the unit AI (not the game AI) prioritize SCVs higher? Or the repaird unit higher?
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Previously, if you did a attack move, and if there was a single thor with 6 SCV repairing it, all units would attack the thor and completely ignore the SCV.

This is definitely welcome.
 
it used to be enemy units always had higher priority, so scv was repairing untouched as long as the thor survives. now it won't be as effective since this priority will be reduced to a range factor whenever you assign them to repair.
 
Deluded said:
Previously, if you did a attack move, and if there was a single thor with 6 SCV repairing it, all units would attack the thor and completely ignore the SCV.

This is definitely welcome.
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It made planetary fortresses and early thors with an SCV entourage pretty much unassailable. And it raged the hell out of me.
 
psychogee4o8 said:
:( no more void harassing! :(

or not as much.. :)
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Personally I'm a little saddened by this change. I rarely use voids in any of my games, but they were one of the few units you could use to keep an enemy pinned in his base as a Protoss. This makes them so much less versatile, and honestly I can't see the necessity for the change. Are people losing to void cheese in Plat and Diamond or something? Cause I'm not seeing that in any of my games.
 
Yeah, the Void Ray speed upgrade disappearing seems like an answer to a question nobody asked.

And I take some issue with the Fungal change, but only because it's an overreaction. It clearly needs to be balanced in some way, but making it ignore air units entirely seems like a gross overreaction.

Don't make it ignore air, just change it's effect on air to a speed reduction instead of freezing things in place. That would allow things like Phoenix to stay far more viable than they are right now, but still allow the Zerg some form of viable counter.

Plus I hate to imagine how much more boring ZvZ is going to get if you can't use Fungal to slow down Muta harass. It'll just turn into a war of who has the most mutas in every game :(
 
kind of like how PvP is war of the worlds? so tired of hearing the zerg crying about mutas as a P. Impossible to deal with them mutas as a P. Well, not anymore!
 
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