• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Starcraft II

ThumperSD said:
The first and last games were all-ins. I dont think any of the games in between were all-ins though. When you send all of your SCVs to attack, that's an all-in.

Nestea's play was perfect in game 7 as he got some clutch surrounds which saved him the game
Click to expand...

Well I'm not 100% certain on the definition of all-in. I figured it was about an all-or-nothing attack. The game on Steppes of War felt the same way, but delayed. NesTea didn't bring his drones with him, but he certainly decided to build an army for a single attack instead of staying back and build his economy up by droning. He didn't have a lot of drones left mining after the attack anyway, so it was a huge commitment to try and end the game with everything on the line. Of course, it was probably the best decision to make since Terrans become very strong later on. Perhaps the same could be said with fake boxer, since he couldn't defend against Baneling busts in the mid-game.
 
All-ins are plays when you try to end the game during a certain time which will leave you virtually no chance of coming back if the attack fails. Basically no plan B.

Nestea was trying to end the game because on that map, once the terran gets takes on the lower ground, it's GG. It is IMPOSSIBLE to defend that area once you have tanks with a bunch of BIO units to support. A flawed map if you ask me, kind of like LT. I would not say it is an all-in (thought it was close) for Nestea though since he did have plenty of drones left but he would be without an expansion once Foxer got his tanks to take out his natural. However he did realize that he will have no chance to win the game if he get his natural taken out. It's a terran friendly map. Quite honestly I dont think the tanks will get a re-buff because of these types of maps. It's too easy to abuse.
 
So I'm wondering something might be wrong with my account. I jumped into 1v1 against a plat rank 1, and the game said I was in favor... I am in silver rank 7. After beating him, he messaged me and said he was only pitted against diamonds and plats, and he never played against a silver in weeks. He thinks my MMR is quite high, yet the game "doesn't know" where to place me. Does this make any sense?
 
lobski2 said:
So I'm wondering something might be wrong with my account. I jumped into 1v1 against a plat rank 1, and the game said I was in favor... I am in silver rank 7. After beating him, he messaged me and said he was only pitted against diamonds and plats, and he never played against a silver in weeks. He thinks my MMR is quite high, yet the game "doesn't know" where to place me. Does this make any sense?
Click to expand...

It never makes sense, when it comes down to it the zeros and ones love to throw a wrench in the scheme of things. GJ on beating him though.
 
Yeah, I'll buy that for a hundred. You probably haven't hit your "re-evaluation" range yet, and so you haven't moved up. But your MMR justifies you being matched up with some better players.
 
Ive been bronze (for the lulz) and played against (and beat) diamond players on my laddering account. He will probably get promoted as soon as he loses 3+ in a row and win one right after that.
 
TheWeazmeister said:
Yeah, I'll buy that for a hundred. You probably haven't hit your "re-evaluation" range yet, and so you haven't moved up. But your MMR justifies you being matched up with some better players.
Click to expand...

Exactly WHEN do I hit my "re-evaluation"?

http://www.sc2ranks.com/team/7113630

31 won, 12 lost, ratio of 72.09%

The last 25 games I have played against high ranking diamonds and plats (and won). This is getting more and more annoying.
 
Rant:

Fuck Mutas, seriously those shits fly 10 000 mph acceleration cost very little... as a protoss im fucked, voids cant do much since i ll be greatly outnumbered and they r slower, ht are slow ass and those flying fuckworms move at the speed of light, stalkers suck at them even with blink... they easily outrun stim pack marines

They need to balance that, those things can fuck ur base before u can even resond... make them cost 150 min 150 gas and have their speed need upg and overall speed reduced

Rant over
 
Brownstone said:
Rant:

Fuck Mutas, seriously those shits fly 10 000 mph acceleration cost very little... as a protoss im fucked, voids cant do much since i ll be greatly outnumbered and they r slower, ht are slow ass and those flying fuckworms move at the speed of light, stalkers suck at them even with blink... they easily outrun stim pack marines

They need to balance that, those things can fuck ur base before u can even resond... make them cost 150 min 150 gas and have their speed need upg and overall speed reduced

Rant over
Click to expand...
I'll insert the typical don't less them mass mutas right here. That said, I just lost a game to mass muta. I saw an early expansion, I killed it and then had to retreat, it came back up so I got it again. So of course I think I have this, I sniped the spire earlier and I'm feeling great. Little did I know (watching the replay) he was sotckpiling larva and gas so the first back of mutas came out 8 at a time. Wait a bit more, had 12. There are few units in SCII where there is a critical mass that you won't beat but mutas are the one (IMO) exception.
 
Brownstone said:
Rant:

Fuck Mutas, seriously those shits fly 10 000 mph acceleration cost very little... as a protoss im fucked, voids cant do much since i ll be greatly outnumbered and they r slower, ht are slow ass and those flying fuckworms move at the speed of light, stalkers suck at them even with blink... they easily outrun stim pack marines

They need to balance that, those things can fuck ur base before u can even resond... make them cost 150 min 150 gas and have their speed need upg and overall speed reduced

Rant over
Click to expand...

Make 4 phoenix. Kill 30 mutas. Profit??
 
lobski2 said:
Exactly WHEN do I hit my "re-evaluation"?

http://www.sc2ranks.com/team/7113630

31 won, 12 lost, ratio of 72.09%

The last 25 games I have played against high ranking diamonds and plats (and won). This is getting more and more annoying.
Click to expand...

LOL @ you being stuck in silver, my friend is in Platinum with a 4W, 2L record with easy placement matches. I don't like this system myself.

I also wish you had the choice to stay in a tier of your own choosing and not face people much better than you if you wanted to. Sometimes I just want to have fun and not get assraped because the system can't find anybody else but a 2000 game Diamond player to play me, a bronze.
 
Spare-Flair said:
I've tried that on the unit test maps, you need more phoenixes than that an a lot of micro to keep them separate to avoid muta bounce damage. Protoss needs anti-air buff.
Click to expand...

Run in the opposite direction. Phoenix shut down muta play. It's not even a matter of opinion, it's a fact. If the zerg continues to make mutas, he will lose. Period. After you get 4-6 phoenix out, repel the mutas and start picking off overlords then tech to colossus / HT (whichever you prefer to counter the hydras that he has to make). This is an established strategy against mutalisk and it's very effective.

LOL @ you being stuck in silver, my friend is in Platinum with a 4W, 2L record with easy placement matches. I don't like this system myself.

I also wish you had the choice to stay in a tier of your own choosing and not face people much better than you if you wanted to. Sometimes I just want to have fun and not get assraped because the system can't find anybody else but a 2000 game Diamond player to play me, a bronze.
Click to expand...
A lot of this is irrelevant on so many levels. What league you're in has nothing to do with who you match against. It's mostly blizzard's mistake for making these leagues which gives the ill-informed the misconception that leagues actually matter. If you knew how the system worked you'd realize that the 'league' of someone who is 4-2 is completely meaningless. In any sort of ladder / rating system, the ladder or rating is only meaningful if players actually play enough games. It should be an obvious fact. Perhaps blizzard should have made placement 15 games. However, in this day and age of gamers with short attention spans and people who want immediate rewards, clearly that's not going to be optimal. It's the same scenario with the guy who's 'stuck' in silver. If he actually wanted to be competitive on a ladder, playing less than 50 games is trivial and you shouldn't care what your league is at that point.
 
Judging by the korean ladder -- ladder means nothing. So many "high rated" koreans on ladder did not qualify in GSL.
 
Give me a break counter 30 mutas with 4 phoenixes... if that's the distribution he won't even care about your phoenix, he'll fly in and annihilate anything on the ground and take his lumps while your phoenixes pew pew. Also if you can micro 4 phoenixes against mass mutas and not lose any... it's time to head to the gsl qualifiers. It's VERY hard to do against a player who 1) tweaks his mutas back and forth and 2) splits them into two groups. That 1 range advantage is a razor thin edge.

Not saying phoenix don't counter mutas - they do. But I generally chronoboost out of 2 stargates when I suspect/know that mutas are coming.

It's like there is two groups of people, those that think "omg mutas kills everything there is no counter ahhh" and "lul mutas make phoenix you win gg".
 
Aix said:
It's like there is two groups of people, those that think "omg mutas kills everything there is no counter ahhh" and "lul mutas make phoenix you win gg".
Click to expand...

:(

I guess I am in the "gg... please?" group.

Thanks for the hints! :D
 
lobski2 said:
Exactly WHEN do I hit my "re-evaluation"?

http://www.sc2ranks.com/team/7113630

31 won, 12 lost, ratio of 72.09%

The last 25 games I have played against high ranking diamonds and plats (and won). This is getting more and more annoying.
Click to expand...

I told you that you have to lose 3+ games and win 1 game after that. You will be promoted. Try it. You can either throw away 3 games or you can keep playing until you lose 3 straight. I had this very same problem.
 
Making so many phoenixes to deal with 20+ mutas is not practical. In small numbers, phoenixes do work on mutas though. In large numbers, I'll take the corsair over phoenix any day.
 
People need to understand what the Phoenix is and what it isn't against Zerg. It is not a unit designed to inflict massive amounts of damage and win you big head-on conflicts. Against Zerg, phoenix are an excellent pinning unit and help dictate the course of action your opponent is forced to take with regards to build order.

Because a few phoenix dominate small numbers of mutas you can use them to great effect in the early game to harass your opponent and keep him in his base defending (similar to what Zerg does with mutas). If he leaves with his muta force, fly into his base and lift off a queen or start picking off ovies. As the game progresses your opponent has a couple of readily apparent options available to him.

1. Build a bunch of mutas; Protoss probably won't be able to keep up a parity in air production and even if he does phoneix are garbage against most ground units.
2. Build a bunch of anti air units like spore crawlers, queens and hydras. Phoenix are simply not a cost effective way to battle against a lot of hydras and queens and they can't attack spore crawlers.

They key here is that at some point you will cease your phoenix production, but the threat (meta game here) of your phoenix will often cause your opponent to overcompensate. If you see your opponent going heavy muta to counter your 5 or 6 phoenix, wonderful. Get a ton of zealots and stalkers and a few sentries and roll into his base and wipe him out. If he starts getting corrupters, even better. Do the exact same thing, only now you don't have to worry about his air army hitting your ground units. While your ground army destroys his base, take some time to micro your 5 or 6 phoenix and pick off his mutas that are probably countering you or attacking your ground army.

If he goes the other route of a huge ground army of hydras, keep him pinned in his base by constantly threatening to attack with your phoenix. This will give you time to build up 4 or 5 colossi (remember to cut phoenix production) and a supporting stalker ball or to tech up to carriers with a supporting stalker and zealot ball. If you go the carrier route you get the added benefit of increasing damage of both your carriers and phoenix as you upgrade, making your phoenix that much more of a threat.
 
refraxion said:
Judging by the korean ladder -- ladder means nothing. So many "high rated" koreans on ladder did not qualify in GSL.
Click to expand...

That's because most professional SC players in Korea train in-house. This is not the case in the North American and European servers.
 
If the zerg keeps massing mutas, I don't see the problem with massing phoenixes. In fact, I think that's the surest solution, and I've come back from a base down doing that.
 
Aix said:
If the zerg keeps massing mutas, I don't see the problem with massing phoenixes. In fact, I think that's the surest solution, and I've come back from a base down doing that.
Click to expand...

Of course I can't speak to your specific experience in that game where you were able to come back, but there are some issues with massing phoenixes as a response to massed mutas.

If your opponent begins massing units like zerglings or ultras while you continue to mass phoenix because of the threat of mutas you could very well over-invest in your phoenix army you will can be overrun on the ground. Yes the phoenix is a "sure" solution to mutas, but they fail against pretty much everything else Zerg can throw at them.

Don't discount the meta game. Even just the threat of a unit can turn the tide of a game. That is one thing that makes mutas and reapers so effective. A few of them convince you that you need to stay in your base and protect it, or you need to build canons before you feel safe to move out (so you build 6 cannons instead of expanding or pushing with a bigger army).
 
petertew said:
Of course I can't speak to your specific experience in that game where you were able to come back, but there are some issues with massing phoenixes as a response to massed mutas.

If your opponent begins massing units like zerglings or ultras while you continue to mass phoenix because of the threat of mutas you could very well over-invest in your phoenix army you will can be overrun on the ground. Yes the phoenix is a "sure" solution to mutas, but they fail against pretty much everything else Zerg can throw at them.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is very true. Massed mutas can do huge damage to most ground *and* air. Phoenix massing does counter large numbers of mutas but is absolutely useless against a Zerg who sees the Phoenix and switches to any combination of ground units in response.

The Phoenix is a good harassment unit, it really is. As a Zerg I can say few things are as annoying as having a group of them buzzing around sniping queens and overlords, but every time I've seen them overproduce on Phoenix I've won because they didn't have enough pop left for gateway/robo units to defend sufficiently on the ground.
 
The natural compliment to phoenix is to simply make a ton of zealots since you'll have plenty of minerals. This combination will dominate any muta / ling play. Phoenix SHOULD grant you air control. If he is stubborn and keeps making mutalisk despite seeing phoenix on the field, the game is honestly yours to lose. I've only seen continued mutalisk play fail against phoenix play. There's no reason that the zerg should be able to field ultralisk after making so many mutalisk if you control the map. Something else went wrong other than unit choice if you allowed the zerg to do that.

The most natural follow up to muta -> phoenix is Hydralisk. At that point almost every protoss will segway into colossi / HT to deal with the inevitable Hydralisk production.

Again, speaking from personal experience as Z as well as my roommate being a top 200 protoss... continued mutalisk production after phoenix are on the field is almost a guaranteed loss for the zerg. The most natural response is again, Hydralisk. There's a window where the protoss will not have the proper ground counter since he went phoenix. The best thing for Z after seeing phoenix is to cut his losses with the mutas and seriously just hide them somewhere. The spire isn't a complete waste since if you expect colossi to follow after you make hydras, then corruptors are available.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
The natural compliment to phoenix is to simply make a ton of zealots since you'll have plenty of minerals. This combination will dominate any muta / ling play. Phoenix SHOULD grant you air control. If he is stubborn and keeps making mutalisk despite seeing phoenix on the field, the game is honestly yours to lose. I've only seen continued mutalisk play fail against phoenix play. There's no reason that the zerg should be able to field ultralisk after making so many mutalisk if you control the map. Something else went wrong other than unit choice if you allowed the zerg to do that.

The most natural follow up to muta -> phoenix is Hydralisk. At that point almost every protoss will segway into colossi / HT to deal with the inevitable Hydralisk production.

Again, speaking from personal experience as Z as well as my roommate being a top 200 protoss... continued mutalisk production after phoenix are on the field is almost a guaranteed loss for the zerg. The most natural response is again, Hydralisk. There's a window where the protoss will not have the proper ground counter since he went phoenix. The best thing for Z after seeing phoenix is to cut his losses with the mutas and seriously just hide them somewhere. The spire isn't a complete waste since if you expect colossi to follow after you make hydras, then corruptors are available.
Click to expand...

All very true. The key, in my opinion, is the not over-commit to your pinning/harassing unit, in this case phoenix. You also need to continually scout your opponent's base and structure mix. The natural progression from ling/muta play is into mass hydra, but that doesn't mean your opponent has to go that route.

This all goes back to Day9's hatred of "the counter". Some units are good against others, but it's all situational and you have to factor in the effectiveness of the units you are building in the long haul of the game.
 
i might be alone on this but i enjoy using infestors vs. phoenix. mind you, more than one infestor is necessary but given enough gas i rather have 4 infestors over 8 hydras. i'm not sure if this is a viable option for 1v1, however. i play 4v4 and 3v3 only.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
northrop said:
i might be alone on this but i enjoy using infestors vs. phoenix. mind you, more than one infestor is necessary but given enough gas i rather have 4 infestors over 8 hydras. i'm not sure if this is a viable option for 1v1, however. i play 4v4 and 3v3 only.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
Click to expand...

Infestors are a great option. They can lock down retreating/attacking phoenix patrols with fungal while spewing invested marines and they are still a good unit to have in the late game, especially if you can get some in good position for mind controlling carriers or colossi.
 
petertew said:
I if you can get some in good position for mind controlling carriers or colossi.
Click to expand...

I found out it doesn't work well the hard way due to the amount of limited time Infestors have control over a unit. I wish Infestors acted the same way as UD Banshees in WC3.
 
Sixthsense said:
I found out it doesn't work well the hard way due to the amount of limited time Infestors have control over a unit. I wish Infestors acted the same way as UD Banshees in WC3.
Click to expand...

hotkey all army to the same hotkey, then also hotkey infestors to another hotkey. That way, you move them as one (or however else possible), and the infestors will be mixed in with a cluster of units so targeting them will not be as easy, yet you can still have control over your infestors. Infestors work really well against out of position armies.
 
Yeah Im aware of ctrl binding. Im just referring to the limited amount of time infestors have control over a unit. I've seen some cases where it works well when Dimanga (sp) used it against Thors and Rines. It's hard to justify the cost for the limited amount of time you have when you take possession.
 
Sixthsense said:
Yeah Im aware of ctrl binding. Im just referring to the limited amount of time infestors have control over a unit. I've seen some cases where it works well when Dimanga (sp) used it against Thors and Rines. It's hard to justify the cost for the limited amount of time you have when you take possession.
Click to expand...

right! I forgot they got nerfed down to ~10sec or so. I don't use infestors nearly enough since that (beta?) patch :p

I kinda get slaughtered in late game, so that's just a general failure I have. :(
 
I've used the mind control a total of 5 times probably, so I'm no expert on the subject, but in every situation I've positioned my infestors on the high ground, and controlled the units below.

Now that I think about it... you know what would be pretty cool? Fungal Growth the protoss army and take control of the HT's and blast away with the storms! A bit micro intensive, but I've got to try it one day.
 
True, but I'd rather use his storms on his troops, than have him use it on my Hydras ;)
 
ThumperSD said:
I told you that you have to lose 3+ games and win 1 game after that. You will be promoted. Try it. You can either throw away 3 games or you can keep playing until you lose 3 straight. I had this very same problem.
Click to expand...

I must've have missed your post.

Also, if I HAVE to lose a few games before progressing, I think the ranking system is broken and/or stupid. Why does it not permit players that win often to progress? Why must they lose a bit?

Anyway, I don't think I want to lose a few on purpose. I just got three wins! :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top