Rift S

Discussion in 'VR & Head-Mounted Displays' started by westrock2000, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. ryno9100

    ryno9100 Limp Gawd

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    I just bought a CV1 a couple months ago!
    I'm not sure how I feel about the move away from external tracking. Inside-out tracking is cool, and makes for a MUCH easier set-up, but also isn't near as full as an external solution, namely when reaching straight down, or behind you. Maybe the 5th camera will help in that regard.
    My biggest concern, however, is the lack of manual IPD scaling. I have a high IPD, and the CV1 was the only headset I could actually adjust that on. I suppose I'll just have to wait for user reviews from fellow big heads.
     
  2. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not sure why anyone would buy this over the HP Reverb...
     
  3. TroubleMagnet

    TroubleMagnet Gawd

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    Hopefully they will allow external trackers to be available as an optional upgrade for the inside out tracking. This applies to both Oculus and anyone else using inside out tracking from the headset for the controllers. As long as the inside out headset tracking requires line of sight to the controllers we'll keep having controller tracking issues. I have't seen any tracking systems that are not LOS based that work well and don't cost more than the rest of the system. The closest was the sixsense magnetic tech in the Hydra, but it had some major issues and they have't had a follow on come out yet, in spite of doing a Kickstarter for it.
     
  4. ryno9100

    ryno9100 Limp Gawd

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    $200 is a pretty good reason for some.
     
  5. ryno9100

    ryno9100 Limp Gawd

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    This is my second biggest concern, and probably the biggest reason I don't regret having bought a Rift so recently. Inside-out is cool, but LoS tracking isn't.
     
  6. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    Software.

    The OG Rift is as close as one can reasonably get to "it just works" in this space, currently. SteamVR, and to a lesser extent WMR, involve some level of frustration in getting the software to work right.
     
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  7. misterbobby

    misterbobby 2[H]4U

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    Just sold my Rift on the Facebook Marketplace during my lunch break. I am so glad to get rid of the three sensors and all that clutter associated with it.

    Now to wait gor the Rift S to get released and check out some reviews.
     
  8. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    For those into sims, the HP Reverb definitely looks like the best option. I really want to see what Valve comes out with though... The Rift S just seems to under deliver as a potential upgrade contender.
     
  9. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    OLED in Rift 1 have awesome colors. I highly doubt they put wide-gamut LCD's in Rift S but just another W-LED which I do not like to put it lightly and straight hate to put it properly. Besides even despite Rift 1 doesn't have perfect black it have much better contrast ratio than LCD's
    Also 90Hz have lower input lag than 80Hz.
    Also to get good motion performance on strobed LCD's need some time to switch state before backlight is flashed. I suspect input lag due to this must be higher than what is achievable on OLED displays in Rift 1 because OLED have not switch time at all, just time to refresh their state which is the same for all matrix displays (and can be optimized by adding a lot of blacking time)
    Another thing is that inside-out tracking is much easier to do than outiside-out, especially having fast transfers. There is a reason why priginal Rift creator left company. He was visionary and perfectionist...

    God rays do not bother me at all. They are hardly visible during normal gameplay and give visuals distinctive look especially since sub-pixels in Rift 1 have very high saturation.
    I have color->taste/smell synesthesia makes me be very sensitive in positive way to this. These colors alone gives me so much pleasure from using my Rift I would never ever want anything that didn't have it and instead used some LCD with W-LED backlight and I highly suspect this because Go displays are said to be sRGB by people who used it.

    I do not care for Rift S itself because it is no upgrade to Rift 1 but for Rift CV2 to carry out subpar performance and cost cutting measures.
    I see no reason why they couldn't allow using inside-out tracing with headset that have outside-in tracking other than cost cutting. It would require putting few goddamn LED's on headset to do properly and they most probably didn't do it on Rift S and won't do on Rift 2... I just hope I am wrong here... :(
     
  10. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well then I'm a fool - I had a Rift+touch for 2 years so know exactly what it's capable of, and got rid of it after getting the Odyssey+, which is WMR. I was worried the tracking would be a deal breaker, but it wasn't, quite the opposite, it's really good. However, both the Odyseey+ and Reverb made the improvement of adding BT to the headset for the controllers to use for communication instead of it being on the PC, which makes a rather larger difference to the controller tracking as the BT never has to go around/through your body. They only lose tracking if well out of view of the integrated cameras for more than a few seconds, which is pretty rare in most games I play. The tracking in view is excellent. I do think the Rift S will have better tracking, but I already decided the image quality of the O+ was more important for immersion and enjoyment than the ability to track the controllers accurately when completely out of view. I could see it being an issue for archery games, but honestly that's not a big passion of mine. I spend most of my VR time in Onward, iRacing and some War Thunder. I've also played through Kona and started on Lone Echo using Revive with the O+. The O+ works perfectly in all of those. If the Touch controllers and tracking was that much better that they were worth the reduced visuals, I'd still have them.

    Fwiw, I had both the Odyssey+ and Rift for about 4 months. I used the Rift exactly twice, when I had company come over and wanted to do multi-player. Otherwise it sat in it's box while I enjoyed the Odyssey+. I buddy of mine started getting into iRacing so I gave him my Oculus to try VR, and I was quite happy to take down all of the USB cables running through my man cave. I loved the Rift and it was great, but the visuals of newer sets are just too much better. I'd like to try the Rift S, if the display quality can get close while having superior range of tracking it'd be worth it, but I don't think it's going to match the Odyssey+ for visuals, let alone the Reverb, unfortunately.
     
  11. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    If Rift S was using same screens as Odyssey+/Vive Pro and on top of that we could use existing sensors for improved tracking in these situations where normally we could loose tracking it would be awesome VR headset and even reason to get one.
    Outside-in tracking of controllers can be probably added even if it is not supported yet but I doubt they will change anything once they made decision.

    BTW. Idea od not having headphones but some speakers: do not like.
     
  12. ryno9100

    ryno9100 Limp Gawd

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    This was initially a concern for me, but they also said it has a 3.5mm jack integrated. This means I can just take a pair of in ears I have lying around (I have like 3 pair just lying around since I went bluetooth, though I know that's not the same story as everyone else), wrap them with a twist, and leave just enough hanging that they can reach my ears. If I end up with a Rift S (still on the fence, big time), that's what I'll end up doing.

    I think at this point, the huge questions haven't been answered. How will the tracking be with the addition of the extra cameras, how will lower resolution screens affect us, and most importantly... What will Valve/HTC do in response to this. Will we see a Valve 1.5 to answer to Rift 1.5? And if so, will Vive's Knuckles controllers be a part of that? If so, I might hop right off the Oculus train.
     
  13. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    If the resolution was higher I might have bought it. Not much over the regular Rift. The in out tracking gets rid of the sensors which isn't bad.
     
  14. misterbobby

    misterbobby 2[H]4U

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    What is this fixation that so many of you have with just the resolution? Not only is it a bump in resolution , the subpixels structure has changed so it's actually a substantial Improvement when it comes to screen door effect. Please go look at the videos posted of the Oculus Go review as that is the screen that the Rift S will use. That screen looks better than the Vive Pro even though the Vive pro has a higher resolution. And also they're using much better lenses which gets rid of nearly all the god rays.
     
  15. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    It is also LCD so worse colors and contrast and response times and more input lag
    I do not want any VR with LCD panel period
     
  16. misterbobby

    misterbobby 2[H]4U

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    And again go look at the review of the Oculus Go. It looks just fine and even the black levels are just fine. Some of you are just acting like drama queens for nothing. And what I find laughable is that so many of you are saying that you will now get the HP Reverb because of the high resolution. So it's okay for that to have an LCD screen and no IPD adjustment but not the Rift S. Not to mention the crappy wmr tracking and much worse controllers. Really some of you just are not making any sense at all in this sub forum. Bottom line is it may not be exactly what many of us want or think we want but the screen used in the Oculus Rift S is from the Oculus Go which is a damn fine screen.
     
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  17. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    If you already have a huge Rift library!

    Remember folks this was not meant for cv1 owners. It was meant for those with no VR. If you have a 2017 car is it worth getting a 2018 car of the same model? It's that kind of idea.

    In may or may not try it. Depends. I am.partially blind in my left eye that happens to weirdly magnify the SDE. Maybe a higher resolution will reduce the SDE as I perceive it. I'm laying some caution against LCD over OLED though.
     
  18. misterbobby

    misterbobby 2[H]4U

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    It is certainly not just for new people. I am glad as hell I already sold my Rift so I can get this. The screen door effect is massively reduced and the god rays are nearly eliminated. And according to the reviews of the Go, the black levels will be right on par with the current Rift's OLED. So essentially it is overall upgrade in visuals. And just getting rid of the ridiculous 3 sensor setup and all that cable clutter was a massive reason for me to get this.
     
  19. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    For me the most essential thing to get rid of is god rays... god I hate those things. I will buy this rift just for that damn feature alone. I cant stand being in a dark space like in a horror game and have all these damn god rays beaming me in my retina and a half lol

    Any idea when the thing is going on sale? When CV1 was launched it was on Mar 28 which is tomorrow.

    --- Let me also add this. I was watching a Facebook err Oculus employee talking about this thing at a recent show. He made a comment around the likes of "you might not want to get rid of your oculus sensors just yet". It is possible, if I am reading him right, that we can use our existing rift sensors to further enhance the S, possibly? That would make sense right. You know like add more resolution to the room scale functionality.
     
  20. misterbobby

    misterbobby 2[H]4U

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    Yeah rumors point to at least some release date info for tomorrow. My guess is pre orders will go up tomorrow with the actual launch being at least a month from now.
     
  21. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    That would be awesome (y)
    Especially that if they offer compatibility now it is that much more possible that CV2 will also have support for external sensors and since I already have four I could just leave two in corners and have this extra bit of help to support these cases when inside-out would fail me.
    Since these sensors are just infrared cameras and directly connected to PC compatibility is just a matter of Oculus software.

    While you already mentioned HP Reverb: if Oculus decided put 2160p screens in S this could be considered an real upgrade or even CV2.
    With 1440p screens there is not really that much of a difference to 1200p to warrant upgrade even despite better subpixel layout and optics and this is side-grade.
    Black level is one thing and I might accept it being downgraded a bit but considering OLEDs in Rift 1 have so damn fine and saturated colors and I see no way Rift S with LCD panels at 80Hz to not have worse input lag I am not interested. And why I would be?
     
  22. misterbobby

    misterbobby 2[H]4U

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    You are greatly discounting the benefit of having the extra subpixel. Again going back to the MRTV video, the Go screen has less screen door effect than even the Vive Pro. Really do the math as 2560x1440 with 3 subpixels on the Rift S is over TWICE the subpixels of the Rift with its 2160x1200 and 2 subpixels. Yes an even higher res would be nice but it is still a decent improvement and will be no more demanding to boot.
     
  23. misterbobby

    misterbobby 2[H]4U

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  24. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Oh let me also
    If it drops tomorrow I'll get it at Bestbuy or microcenter. If I dont like it... ill return it. I'm probably gonna love it. Cant get enough Elite Dangerous ha!

    Now I'll have to get a VR motion chair.
     
  25. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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  26. Oniigumo

    Oniigumo Limp Gawd

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    Look forward to your take on it. I actually ordered the O+ waaaay back on like 2/25 when it hit 299, but it's so back-ordered that I don't even have a shipping notification at this point. I feel like it'll be close, but the O+ will just edge it out in image quality while the new rift will just edge it out in tracking. Good time to be into VR, there's so many good options it feels like you can't really go wrong.
     
  27. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not worth it still over my Rift. I can wait for next gen. By then maybe Nvidia will have fixed their cards and have a new high end GPU. Hopefully the min goes up.
     
  28. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Are there any actual dates of release? I'm so interested in the new lenses. I have no center vision in my left eye and my left amplifies the shit out of God Ray's. I hope the new mask is available soon or else I'm gonna shift toward the Valve hmd.
     
  29. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

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    People are saying that Best buy has started receiving shipments of both the rift s and quest, best guess is April 30 if the rumor is true
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  30. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Reviews are trickling, well inside type reviews, and they are looking good!

    The tracking works very well indeed even straight up and down.

    Also the LCD of course has 3 sub pixels per pixel. Oled doesnt have sub pixels arranged the same thus the LCD is making text and details much higher quality looking.

    So far the things are looking good.

    Also dont forget that the Valve headset is being officially announced in may.
     
  31. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    As to an actual HMD upgrade for folks that already have a VR rig, the Valve Index may turn out to be more along the lines of what I am after. I'm expecting slightly better resolution, FOV, as well as better tracking than what the Rift S will deliver. New users just starting out in VR will be served just fine by the Rift S, which I expect will also come in at a price point that may be a bit less than the Index. I'm much more interested in the Quest from Oculus than the Rift S. It should be a fun alternate to PC VR even with its power/graphics limitations.

    If the Valve Index disappoints, I may just pick up the HP Reverb and and a pair of Knuckle controllers. I already have the lighthouses and it seems one can Frankenstein knuckle controllers over other HMD's via SteamVR and a couple of Valve dongles as shown in the following example using a Rift:

     
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  32. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah, the specs on the Rift S were not making me jump to it.
    Is it feasible for a company to make 2 HMD's and make money? One for low end GPU's and one for high? I feel having a 1060 as the minimum is hurting some of the performance? A 1080 minimum would be much better!
     
  33. Hakaba

    Hakaba Gawd

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    I actually had more issues getting the Rift to work than the Vive, on both the software and hardware level. I like the Rift headset a little better, though I miss the 3.5mm jack. But I love the Vive sensors, was a 5 min process vs 20 on the Rift. Additionally, I did not need the third one and a 16’ USB cable running around the room.

    But before jumping on the Rift S I want to see some consumer reviews, also I will wait to see the Vive Index? I am looking for a more portable setup, my next assignment informed me I will have a lot of TDYs.
     
  34. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah, the Rift sensor setup sucks, but with 4, it is really good. Prone or behind the back, no problem.
     
  35. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

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    The rift setup actually goes very fast once you find out you can just skip the sensor placement section. It never likes where I place the sensors but it always works lol
     
  36. Hakaba

    Hakaba Gawd

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    That was the section I had the most issues with, constantly complaining about positioning or loseing comma with a sensor. Though it still showed up and worked.
     
  37. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

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    Ya the default it demands is setup for smaller spaces, I found that just placing my cameras in the corners and pointing them all the start at the center of my playspace is the ideal placement. Just point them to center and hit skip and it will be fine.
     
  38. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    Really?

    I had all sorts of issues getting my Vive Pro working. It mostly boiled down to the house thing crashing for some inexplicable reason, and taking SteamVR and Steam down with it. Only solution after that was a reboot. Even once I figured that out, though, it takes a painfully long time to get all the various parts started up and working.

    I'm with you regarding the rear Rift sensor, though. The need to have that nasty cable strung across the room is one reason my Rift is now on a shelf, even though I like it better in a lot of other ways.
     
  39. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    More pre/reviews trickling in. The s looks pretty good and may not be a side grade if anything a moderate upgrade. Do more research. Dont jump to conclusions.
     
  40. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's not a side grade, but not really a moderate one. It's good for new people, but not worth it if you have a HMD already. Unless you just want it because it's new.