NVIDIA NDA & HardOCP - POLL

HardOCP Signs the NVIDIA NDA for 2080 Launch Access?

  • Yes

  • No

Results are only viewable after voting.
katanaD said:
i have wondered why it isnt more prominently displayed. even a small logo/sign on ones name showing they are patrons
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Patreon does not have an API that links in with our Xenforo forum software. If I could get this done, I certainly would. The problem is getting the two systems to talk to each other. It is too big of a job to handle by hand. I would love to have a Patron banner akin to the Staff banner you see under my user name.

I think one Patreon button is enough, even people gripe about it being there. Would be great to be able to not show that button to folks that are already Patrons.
 
Draver said:
I’m sorry if this was already mentioned, but since the communication channels have reopened, would it be possible to ask for the “standard” NDA to be slightly modified to remove the problematic parts and thus make it acceptable for Kyle et. al. to sign it?
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Why would nvidia do that? They have hundreds of sites, youtubers, and bloggers that give them coverage they need and of course signed the NDA.
 
DPI said:
Fun fact: Guess where all the "No, Kyle dont give up your morulz!" screamers are going to be on launch day? Off reading the reviews and benches at all the other sites that signed the NDA.

No one is actually going to change their own behavior to be congruent with their posturing here, they're simply declaring that they're fine with Kyle missing out.
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Got to disagree, there are no other sites whose reviews I trust. Until [H] does the review, it hasn't been reviewed in my book. I started following this back when anandtech, sharkyextreme and even Tom's hardware was worth reading. The current crop of YouTube personalities and "review" sites are nowhere like it was, when reviews were legitimate, fair and critical when they needed to be. Now it's circle jerk trying to get the first clicks and biggest epeen erection from the hardware they received. Fuck that. I want to know if it's worth my money, not whether it not it's boosting the sites advertisement click through rates.

Like others here, I have put up my own hardware. I'd do it again in the future as well, no hesitation.
 
Nimisys said:
Got to disagree, there are no other sites whose reviews I trust. Until [H] does the review, it hasn't been reviewed in my book. I started following this back when anandtech, sharkyextreme and even Tom's hardware was worth reading. The current crop of YouTube personalities and "review" sites are nowhere like it was, when reviews were legitimate, fair and critical when they needed to be. Now it's circle jerk trying to get the first clicks and biggest epeen erection from the hardware they received. Fuck that. I want to know if it's worth my money, not whether it not it's boosting the sites advertisement click through rates.

Like others here, I have put up my own hardware. I'd do it again in the future as well, no hesitation.
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yeah I have only ever totally trusted [H] for true reviews everyone else is just previews.
 
Jim Kim said:
Are you so desperate to buy a gpu that waiting another month would kill you?
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It's not about that, it's about being in the tech journalism business and coming out with a review/article on a "new" product a month after it released and everybody was well aware of it's performance.

Yeah you really stood up for muh morals but you're a month behind your competition and now publishing basically irrelevant articles.

It's great [H] has diehard fans that will wait for them to put out their review, I'm one of them. Unfortunately most GPU customers aren't diehard [H] fans and won't care as much about a 2080 review a month after they're out and there have been hundreds of reviews already floating around the last month.

Hate to say it but Nvidia is a lot bigger player than HardOCP. [H] being the lone holdout on signing the NDA isn't going to hurt anybody but [H].
 
My answer is no.
[H] is my personal #1 site about hardware, oc, and stuff. And that nda is too restricting, for upholding quality reviews imo.
I know, that means a lot of hard earned $$ for 2080's, and some more in the future.
But, I've just been convinced to support [H] on patreon. And it'll be great, if all members supporting decision about not signing nda, do the same with their wallets.
It's worth it, seriously :)
 
MacLeod said:
It's not about that, it's about being in the tech journalism business and coming out with a review/article on a "new" product a month after it released and everybody was well aware of it's performance.

Yeah you really stood up for muh morals but you're a month behind your competition and now publishing basically irrelevant articles.

It's great [H] has diehard fans that will wait for them to put out their review, I'm one of them. Unfortunately most GPU customers aren't diehard [H] fans and won't care as much about a 2080 review a month after they're out and there have been hundreds of reviews already floating around the last month.

Hate to say it but Nvidia is a lot bigger player than HardOCP. [H] being the lone holdout on signing the NDA isn't going to hurt anybody but [H].
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but the people that are gonna buy it right away aren't waiting for even those "reviews". so it doesn't really matter if [H] is "late".
 
In theory an NDA should protect both parties. I work in the marine industry and see a lot of design concepts at an early stage. We sign NDA's to promise we will not share each other's information. Both sides have work that is proprietary and and an NDA can be protective for both parties. I am far from a lawyer, but I would not sign any NDA unless it was beneficial to me as well. So Kyle if this NDA does not protect YOU as well as Nvidia, then I would not sign it.
 
Jim Kim said:
Are you so desperate to buy a gpu that waiting another month would kill you?
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At these prices, I am unlikely to buy anyway. However, if every other site has reviews a month earlier than H, there will be less traffic reading the review.
 
If it didn't have ANYTHING beyond the launch date for time frames I'd say what the hell sign it.

But signing anything at all that can hamper what you do or say for months or 5 YEARS after? How can the readers here expect that it wouldn't color the reviews? Of course it would. Everything gets filtered through the lens of "could that possibly be interpreted as being related to the NDA?" And topics that even get close will be axed out of fear of legal retribution.

No guys. Don't sign anything that goes beyond launch day.
 
I think I agree the cards can be sold. $4k, no joke for sure.
Voted no, but Kyle and HardOcp have my respect on a permanent basis*


*Unless mayor crimes are committed.
 
Jim Kim said:
You say that, but the GPP would still be a thing if it was not for Kyle Bennett and his [H]ardOCP.
Nvidia definitely got hurt in that case and it was by a "little bitty" player.
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How do you figure they got hurt by GPP? How are you measuring that, because as it was playing out, demand for their GPUs was the highest in history and shelves were empty for months. And their 20xx preorders just sold out in minutes.

Despite the impression that the anti-GPP echo chamber here gave that it was something universally reviled and on every gamer's mind, the problem with that narrative was GPP didn't affect framerates. And when people aren't posturing on a forum and they're alone with the Newegg/Amazon buy button in front of them, the politics give way to framerates.

I agree GPP was boneheaded btw, but only because they were already destroying the competition 10:1 and so why bother. It smelled like something that idle fratboy marketing majors dreamt up somewhere in the bowels of corporate.
 
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Just sign it!
 
DPI said:
How do you figure they got "hurt" by GPP? How are you measuring that, because as it was playing out, demand for their GPUs was the highest in history and shelves were empty for months. And their 20xx preorders just sold out in minutes.

I agree GPP was boneheaded btw, but only because they were already destroying the competition 10:1 and so why bother. It smelled like something that idle fratboy marketing majors dreamt up somewhere in the bowels of corporate
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GPP was a PR disaster for nVidia but considering their market execution currently, so what? The performance, or lack of, for the RTX 20xx is an infinitely bigger deal.
 
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dunno if a decision has been made, but I'd say to sign it. currently it is nvidias world and their game and their rules, at least until they get some competition. to be competitive you need to have review samples so you can have reviews ready at launch. as long as the NDA does not stifle the review process I don't see an issue. That and $money. These cards are monstrously expensive and preordering requires quite a bit of optimism.
 
I vote sign it. It is a waste of money to shell out thousands of dollars of your own money just to do a review. Even through donations, that to me is also a waste. I would rather you take that $4k or $5k and donate it to the charity or help the needy. Or save it for future [H] improvements and hard times.
 
I voted yes and here is why:

Kyle, you wouldn't sign anything that would interfere with your review style or information. I trust that with your reviews. If this NDA doesn't change anything about your review except for a date for release, then it would be silly not to sign it.

However, if that does change or there is something fishy about your NDA, don't sign that shit. Buy the cards, put your signature on the cards and auction the cards here!
 
I'm late to the party, but if they are just wanting you to drop bringing up the GPP crap, that's fine. (It'll live forever on the internet anyway) If that NDA in ANY way has ANY clause that would make you omit or not report something in reviews and news, then FUCK NO.
 
Skyblue said:
Why? Their image would improve a whole lot better with a cooperation with [H] than none. A reasonable NDA would be in everyones best interest.
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Because everyone else signed it as it
Jim Kim said:
You say that, but the GPP would still be a thing if it was not for Kyle Bennett and his [H]ardOCP.
Nvidia definitely got hurt in that case and it was by a "little bitty" player.
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Really? I don't think so. Ultimately it was big OEMS like Asus and MSI who brought GPP down. I mean, the ones that were really affected by it.

As much as I respect [H], I don't think they have that kind of power.
 
BTW stop with the GPP bull, its over, its dead. Get over it already.
 
Stoly said:
Because everyone else signed it as it


Really? I don't think so. Ultimately it was big OEMS like Asus and MSI who brought GPP down. I mean, the ones that were really affected by it.

As much as I respect [H], I don't think they have that kind of power.
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You are wrong. They already had products and packaging for GPP guidelines.
Kyle breaking the story, and then every other tech site covering his story, along with the general outrage of the collective is what brought GPP down.
 
Jim Kim said:
You say that, but the GPP would still be a thing if it was not for Kyle Bennett and his [H]ardOCP.
Nvidia definitely got hurt in that case and it was by a "little bitty" player.
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Not the same thing. Kyle breaking a story on a bullshit policy like GPP isn't the same thing as him cutting himself off from all free products and samples from the manufacturer of 85% of the GPU market.

Kyle still would've broke that story even with the NDA because it was based on his own work and nosing around and not based on information provided to him confidentially by Nvidia.

So yes, HardOCP not signing the NDA and having to wait and pay retail for all Nvidia products won't hurt Nvidia at all but will hurt HardOCP. Nvidia will still get plenty of coverage and reviews out there while [H] has to sit and wait for retail releases then cough up $4000+.
 
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MacLeod said:
Not the same thing. Kyle breaking a story on a bullshit policy like GPP isn't the same thing as him cutting himself off from all free products and samples from the manufacturer of 85% of the GPU market.

Kyle still would've broke that story even with the NDA because it was based on his own work and nosing around and not based on information provided to him confidentially by Nvidia.

So yes, HardOCP not singing the NDA and having to wait and pay retail for all Nvidia products won't hurt Nvidia at all but will hurt HardOCP. Nvidia will still get plenty of coverage and reviews out there while [H] has to sit and wait for retail releases then cough up $4000+.
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Unless they tell him about a program like GPP. Then he is bound by the NDA he signed as it is CI they provided.
 
tdkuhl said:
Unless they tell him about a program like GPP. Then he is bound by the NDA he signed as it is CI they provided.
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Maybe that's true but I can't see them do that. They start up another program like GPP but they tell everybody that's signed the NDA "confidentially" to keep it secret? Yeah they can't report on it but we're talking about what, 20-30 sites? All it takes is one "anonymous tip" to a blogger that didn't sign the NDA and its out in the open and no longer bound by it.

So while I see what you're saying, I don't think that would happen. Way too many tech sites, bloggers and YouTubers out there to keep it a secret.
 
Voted yes - mostly to save you the out-of-pocket, all predicated on your ability to maintain impartiality. I will say, reading the NDA had my Spider-sense tingling a bit on that front, especially as Section 2 (shall not disclose confidential information without prior written approval) relates to Section 3 (Recipient shall use Confidential Information solely for the benefit of NVIDIA). I fear that those two could be combined to give Nvidia read-first approval over publishing of your review, and if they don't like what you're reporting, be able to quash it. Would hate for your labors to go to waste at the very least and miss out on the truth at worst.
 
MacLeod said:
Not the same thing. Kyle breaking a story on a bullshit policy like GPP isn't the same thing as him cutting himself off from all free products and samples from the manufacturer of 85% of the GPU market.

Kyle still would've broke that story even with the NDA because it was based on his own work and nosing around and not based on information provided to him confidentially by Nvidia.

So yes, HardOCP not singing the NDA and having to wait and pay retail for all Nvidia products won't hurt Nvidia at all but will hurt HardOCP. Nvidia will still get plenty of coverage and reviews out there while [H] has to sit and wait for retail releases then cough up $4000+.
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No he 100% would not have broke the story. (ok I should not speak for him... but his lawyers advice I am quite sure would have been to not go forward)

Go read his link to the Nvidia NDA. Had he signed that prior he would not have broke the story cause his lawyer would have told him, if you do Nvidia will destroy you and [H].

GPP was no a secret they detailed enough information in public... and enough for your eyes only emails to NDA holders to tie their hands. Their NDA allows them to control what is said about programs and products they detail to NDA holders for a period of 5 years. Kyle would not have had an option to go and report about unnamed sources. Ect.
 
MacLeod said:
Maybe that's true but I can't see them do that. They start up another program like GPP but they tell everybody that's signed the NDA "confidentially" to keep it secret? Yeah they can't report on it but we're talking about what, 20-30 sites? All it takes is one "anonymous tip" to a blogger that didn't sign the NDA and its out in the open and no longer bound by it.

So while I see what you're saying, I don't think that would happen. Way too many tech sites, bloggers and YouTubers out there to keep it a secret.
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They almost got away with GPP 1.0.

There was not a ton of Legit news sites willing to back Kyle. A handful and that is all. The vast majority of the tech news is all NDAd up.
 
pendragon1 said:
but the people that are gonna buy it right away aren't waiting for even those "reviews". so it doesn't really matter if [H] is "late".
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Yes but the people that are pre-ordering now are a small portion of the market compared to those that are waiting on reviews and even the casual gamers that don't know the release is coming til launches. Again, the diehard fan like us are the minority.

ChadD said:
No he 100% would not have broke the story. (ok I should not speak for him... but his lawyers advice I am quite sure would have been to not go forward)

Go read his link to the Nvidia NDA. Had he signed that prior he would not have broke the story cause his lawyer would have told him, if you do Nvidia will destroy you and [H].

GPP was no a secret they detailed enough information in public... and enough for your eyes only emails to NDA holders to tie their hands. Their NDA allows them to control what is said about programs and products they detail to NDA holders for a period of 5 years. Kyle would not have had an option to go and report about unnamed sources. Ect.
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That NDA only bound you by information officially provided by them and deemed as confidential. Information Kyle dug up through sources at other manufacturers, AIB partners and even off the record sources in Nvidia would not be bound. And since Kyle dug up the story based on good old fashioned investigative journalism and not "confidential information given to him by Nvidia", it would not have been bound by the NDA.

ChadD said:
They almost got away with GPP 1.0.

There was not a ton of Legit news sites willing to back Kyle. A handful and that is all. The vast majority of the tech news is all NDAd up.
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Yes, a handful. All it would take is one person of that handful to drop an anonymous phone call to some random YouTuber that Nvidia had never heard of and hadn't signed the NDA and whammo, it's now out in the public domain and will get more attention and then eventually picked up by the major sites.
 
MacLeod said:
That NDA only bound you by information officially provided by them and deemed as confidential. Information Kyle dug up through sources at other manufacturers, AIB partners and even off the record sources in Nvidia would not be bound. And since Kyle dug up the story based on good old fashioned investigative journalism and not "confidential information given to him by Nvidia", it would not have been bound by the NDA.

Yes, a handful. All it would take is one person of that handful to drop an anonymous phone call to some random YouTuber that Nvidia had never heard of and hadn't signed the NDA and whammo, it's now out in the public domain and will get more attention and then eventually picked up by the major sites.
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This is what you don't understand. Nvidia with GPP detailed a public program, they sent info to NDA holders. There NDA does not expire when something is made public BY nvidia. You can not go and say unnamed source told me X if your in the loop at all. Its spelled out very plain in their NDA. To publish Kyle if he was under NDA would have had to ask permission for a period of 5 years.

And some random You tuber isn't going to mean jack if no real new site is going to back them. There are tons of conspiracy theories on youtube right now. They don't have the sway some one like Kyle does >.< Even with Kyle a lot of people claimed he was full of it.

If he signs hey its his choice. He has earned most folks respect no matter what he chooses to do. But legally I get why his own lawyer has said its a bad idea for him. Their NDA is clearly designed to quash any investigative reporting by NDA signatories. In their defense.... devils advocate it would put the dampers on Rando youtubers with minor review access from turning into Conspiracy sites with just enough info to be annoying.
 
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