NVIDIA NDA & HardOCP - POLL

HardOCP Signs the NVIDIA NDA for 2080 Launch Access?

  • Yes

  • No

Results are only viewable after voting.
Kyle, I don't need the lack of NDA to trust [H].
As long as you guys can give us an honest review, that is all that matters. And I'm very sure that you would not have contemplated this idea if you knew you could no longer provide us with an honest review.

It is irrational to expect you guys to continue forking out huge amount of money just to provide us with all these reviews.
I don't mind waiting for reviews, but I'm not going to expect you guys to take a financial hit due to some perception that [H] will somehow lose their integrity because of some NDA.
 
Renegotiate. Tell them witch parts are unreasonable. And tell them to remove those.
 
Hi Kyle

Ordering 2x RTX 2080ti and 2x RTX 2080 + NV-Link bridges is a Big No Thanks to your NDA Nvidia :)
Stay true to you philosophy on reviewing [H]ardware as you have for the last 20 years, it's what we are coming back for every day (y)
now there is that patreon link :LOL:
 
IMHO this is where the rubber meets the road. I see it as a sign of you keeping your integrity if you refuse to sign the NDA. However, that USD4300 is not my money - well a bit of it is because I'm a patreon supporter, but you get my point.

I voted no, but this really is your call Kyle, because it's both your integrity and your business.
 
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I voted no, because...well nVidia history doesn't shine any positive light on them in anyway, so why would this NDA be any different
However its easy for me to click a button and not fully understand the financial burden of said choice.

Initial cost is high, but maybe you could offset part by selling off the review samples as fast as possible to [H] members.
I'm sure there would be takers, therefore the initial hit would be lessened
 
Voted "NO". You already ordered the cards, and, besides, $4500 is not even that big of a deal in the end. I'm pretty sure there are enough [H] fans that might buy the cards from you, just look at all the people signing up on Patreon ;)
 
Skyblue said:
Why? Their image would improve a whole lot better with a cooperation with [H] than none. A reasonable NDA would be in everyones best interest.
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You understand Nvidia told [H] to fuck off because the GPP coverage right?
 
JStamsek said:
You understand Nvidia told [H] to fuck off because the GPP coverage right?
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Yes, having a CS degree leads to much understanding. I do however also understand that many influencers visit [H] and so it would be in Nvidias interest to have a good and profesional relationship with one of the few truly independent and fair review sites.

What [H] did with the GPP was protecting the consumer. Whether you're an AMD fan or an Nvidia fan (like me). This was great for us!

Now we need to normalise the relationsship again. And surely, if asked nicely, Nvidia can produce an NDA that covers their products in a reasonable manner, instead of this sort of multiyear all encompassing one. As one mentioned on page 11, their NDA looks like something you would send to some inexperienced kids and hope they sign it. Hence, I think the best approach would be to call them and say thanks, but can we have a talk about this and that?

If then, Nvidia tells [H] to fuck off, well, I wouldn't sign. In the 20 years [H] have existed, many of its users have grown up, gotten jobs, and mortages and stuff. But surely, some Patreon campaigns to finance hardware buys is a better approach than signing your soul away?

I have in my time told many lawyers to f. off with their initial contracts. In almost all of the cases, the final contract was revised heavily. In one case, I just said "how about NO?". And that was that. The deal went through, they payed me, and there was no NDA.
 
DPI said:
I think you missed the point. New video cards = review Superbowl. Day one reviews of highly anticipated product launches, and the days that immediately follow, is peak time and generates a lot of traffic and visibility for a review site.

I'm pointing out that most of the people voting No here have no real conviction, meaning they won't stand in solidarity and ignore all the day one reviews until the [H] review is posted a week or two later. Impossible to ignore anyway, since people will be posting links here to the external reviews.

There's an opportunity cost for Kyle to consider in turning away launch window traffic/visibility.

Personally I want both: the [H] review, ON day one. Boom. If example RTX sucks and it's a gimmick, nothing in the NDA stops Kyle reporting that.
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While Kyle would miss out on the day one review sweet spot, it's not like it's his only way of revenue unlike other sites. There are many other newsworthy reporting to read in the meantime. Plus unlike other review sites, there are usually follow up's to the initial review (SLi testing, etc) that will recoup some of that loss. Even if the review came out on day one, it's not like everyone is going to just come here to read the review, they are still going to check all the other review sites either way. Kyle will still get the views once his own review goes live even a week later as people will want to know his opinion if this is the place they trust for reviews. Pre-order arrival times are ridiculous now and I'm sure AIB partner boards will be difficult to get as well in that time frame to lose anticipated day one review traffic numbers. And if you already preordered before even one benchmark is reported, what does seeing Kyle's review on day one matter anymore? You've already decided.

It's never been about what Kyle can say in the review of product for Nvidia. Of course he can say what he wants whether it's good or bad. It's the journalistic side of reporting news beyond the scope of just reviews about Nvidia. If a juicy story lands on Kyle's lap like the GPP one, Nvidia will more than likely be able to filter or gag Kyle from reporting what is right. Even just a hint that Kyle's wording he usually makes of it when walking a thin line Nvidia will wipe that shit out. He'll only be able to do what most other sites did when they signed Nvidia's new NDA is just link the story, but not bother to dig further themselves or have an opinion as they were too worried they be in deep shit. Hell even Linus tip toed through this subject on the WANshow so that goes to show you something isn't right with this new NDA. Most of them were like "here's a story, don't know what to make of it, let's move on." Who would be able to report a story that Nvidia wants to bury if everyone is on this new NDA, especially one whom has years and years of proven integrity (Phantom comes to mind)? It's not the timeframe of the NDA, it's all about the control of investigating and reporting stories beyond the scope of just getting review samples. We'd be down to WCCFtech or Videocardz for breaking news and who really trusts all the stories from them?
 
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I said yes because while 5 years is a long time, IF you only have to sign one every 5 years, then it would seem you would be granted access to cards every launch of a new product during that time without having to fork out the cash to buy it yourselves.
 
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I would put cold hard cash on the fact that every single person on this thread will go elsewhere on launch day to read a review of the cards if there isn't one here. We will all most likely read the [H] review a week or so later, but the shine, the fun, the interest in the review will be diminished, because you're going to have a broad idea of what the card is like by then. Sure, it’s a compromise to sign the NDA, but I think it’s an even bigger compromise for a mainstream site like this to be a week late with a review.
 
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I voted yes. I'm sure Kyle and company have been under NDA's before, and I've never felt that has affected how they present their reviews.

IF the NDA has some bullshit about actually controlling what can be said in a review once the embargo date is lifted, then I would tell them to shove it.
 
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DraginDime said:
I voted yes. I'm sure Kyle and company have been under NDA's before, and I've never felt that has affected how they present their reviews.

IF the NDA has some bullshit about actually controlling what can be said in a review once the embargo date is lifted, then I would tell them to shove it.
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As Kyle has stated before, he has never been under a NDA with Nvidia before and this has nothing to do with his reviews.
 
CombatChrisNC said:
A few points.

  1. Don't sign.
  2. My MOST important point is this: I don't come here for the first reviews. I come here for the best reviews.
  3. You shelled out a ton of cash for those cards. It's a bummer, I'm sure. I'm also damn sure you can sell them for what you paid as soon as you're done with them. Hell, put a signature on one of the coolers and add some value to a seller on this forum. Yea, the fanbase is that strong.
  4. This is a good reminder that I really should help fund you guys on Patreon. Even if it's just a few bucks a month - I spend as much time on this site reading reviews, news, deals, and 'for sale' each day as I do in the car listening to NPR.
  5. Also, why no 2070 order? Oh yea, you already spent an assload of money on the other cards.
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Holy cow, people. Most liked post ever? My 'alerts' button has been non-stop.

I followed through.

upload_2018-8-22_8-13-22.png


Yea, it's not much. But every little bit, right? Ok, you 58 people who liked - lets see you follow suit. It's easy. It adds up. And it helps.

59 people * $2 * 12 months = $1,416 a year.
There! Let this one post inspire enough low level grassroots support to cover 1(+) top-tier video card a year.


And yes, having read at least 1/2 of this thread, I still feel this way. Especially after the feedback from Kyle's lawyer.

EDIT: 62 likes now, people. I want to see 62 new Patreon subscribers. If $2 a month is too much, chip in a buck. It helps. Put your money where your 'likes' are.
 
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Having experience with these terms before.

Signing an NDA usually prevents you from showing a few things. There might be certain games you have to keep off the test suite or certain settings. Nvidia usually includes a reviewers guide and they highlight what things you should cover. Upside free cards, and pre launch access to hardware.

Downsides- Doctored content to suit NDA/ reviewers guide
Positives- free stuff

I personally no longer sign NDA's. Except when traveling and it is needed to attend an event (Ryzen tech day) was the last. Freedom of press is more important to me than taking a few pages out of X companies marketing book.
 
Skyblue said:
Nvidias interest to have a good and profesional relationship with one of the few truly independent and fair review sites.
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They have nothing to gain from fair. If their product is good then it doesn't matter that you're fair if their product is bad fair is bad for them. They don't want fair, they want marionetts.
 
ebduncan said:
Having experience with these terms before.

Signing an NDA usually prevents you from showing a few things. There might be certain games you have to keep off the test suite or certain settings. Nvidia usually includes a reviewers guide and they highlight what things you should cover. Upside free cards, and pre launch access to hardware.

Downsides- Doctored content to suit NDA/ reviewers guide
Positives- free stuff
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This is nonsensical. The NDA doesn't stipulate you have to follow their review guide or some pre-approved list of games/settings. If that were somehow the case then obviously Kyle should say forget it, but I'm not sure where you're pulling that out of.
 
Easy for us to say no, its not our money being spent. I say do what’s in the best interest of HardOCP from a financial stand point.
 
Voted no.

I'm here for honest reviews and samples. In a perfect world, all of the stuff reviewed should be from retail stock (Seasonic for example gets a lot of props from me because of their sourcing), but obviously component costs makes it hard to do so without manufacture intervention. However, It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Nvidia didn't golden sample the review pool of cards just to get more gold awards.

The NDA just makes it harder for review sites to give solid reviews. The only advantage I see here is that it would give a more direct channel to Nvidia to sort out issues that may harm performance or stability since they review the review and would make suggestions to gain more performance, but ONLY if they allow you to say that you experienced issues and Nvidia worked with us to sort it out. if reviewers have to remove issues they may have experienced with the card because Nvidia doesn't like it in the article, then all we're going to see is "RTX is the best card ever" reviews.
 
No.
We come here for the truth and best reviews.
Earliest has no bearing on this and an NDA will limit truthfulness / integrity.

Stick with what you are if possible.
Ask for loaner cards from your members, it cant hurt to ask.
 
ontariotl said:
As Kyle has stated before, he has never been under a NDA with Nvidia before and this has nothing to do with his reviews.
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I have signed NDAs with NVIDIA before, but those have always been product specific, and were what I would call Embargo NDAs. We are going to give you product X to test, and you cannot disclose information about it till this date. Never before have I seen an NDA of this type that covers years of nonspecific information about anything and everything NVIDIA.
 
I did send an email to NVIDIA last night asking if the NDA was negotiable. Waiting for an answer. I am not going to pay my lawyer to mark it up if they are just going to say "No."
 
No. That is a bullshit agreement. They and everyone else knows it but they will not likely allow you to change or specify changes to it because then they would have to bend to everyone else wanting to do the same. 5 years is insane. If it were once the product or technology is publicly available then no problem. Otherwise it gives them a potential reason to sue you years later for maybe saying something about something you looked at a few years before. You then have the responsibility to keep track of every single bit of information that the NDA might apply to and make sure never to make an error with that information for years.

Review the publicly available card when you get them, then sell them.
 
D'Octy said:
... $4500 is not even that big of a deal in the end. I'm pretty sure there are enough [H] fans that might buy the cards from you, just look at all the people signing up on Patreon ;)
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The money isn't a big deal, the lack of early access and therefore lack of time to prepare the reviews is likely [H]'s only real concern.

I hope they allow it to be a product specific NDA and work with Kyle on that. Then we all win.
 
DPI said:
Fun fact: Guess where all the "No, Kyle dont give up your morulz!" screamers are going to be on launch day? Off reading the reviews and benches at all the other sites that signed the NDA.

No one is actually going to change their own behavior to be congruent with their posturing here, they're simply declaring that they're fine with Kyle missing out.
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I was thinking the same thing. Everyone up in arms but he's really the only one being affected.
 
I think the real issue with the cards that just got released is that the benefits of owning one are largely subjective...and the NDA can influence how those limitations and benefits are presented. If you are just looking at raw numbers with CURRENT games, these cards are going to be pretty underwhelming...only IF a game supports their raytracing tech, AND the user is willing to trade both framerates and resolution for pretty shadows and reflections is this card at all worthwhile...and I think honest reviewers are going to hammer these cards...but I am betting that all who signed the NDA will present the products in glowing terms. We will see here very shortly, but I would bet cash money I am right.
 
The multi-year agreement is a no-go in my opinion. But I'll continue to support [H] with whatever decision is made.
 
GoodBoy said:
...l, the lack of early access and therefore lack of time to prepare the reviews is likely [H]'s only real concern.
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I really have to wonder, what is the % of people on these forums that have preordered the cards and will cancel their preorders in case of negative reviews or the other way around, that are waiting for early reviews to preorder a card before they are in stores. Judging by the outcry regarding the prices, my guess is, very few people. So waiting two more weeks for a proper review makes no difference.

I believe that those with 1080s or 1080tis are probably in no rush to upgrade (myself included). And those who are measuring ePeens will get the new card(s) regardless of the reviews, just so they have the latest & greatest.

What I'm *REALLY* curious is how 2080ti compares to 1080ti and V100 in ML tasks. If NV is to believed, those who rushed to get their hands on 1080tis now will probably cry in a corner :)
 
Only 387 patrons for [H] this morning...while it is an increase from yesterday, we can do a whole lot better! You saw the math in a prior post on this thread, even $2.00 from every voter in the poll would mean $1902/ month for Kyle and team to continue to do what they do independently. Look around, the internet landscape is vastly different from when this site first launched. We have seen reliable sites sold off and pimped out; we need to support good sites so it makes it an easy decision to turn down questionable "strings."

Kyle, can you place a patron button at the bottom of the page too?
 
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