New SFF gamers case: presentation and advices

diduknowthat said:
And also, is there any possibilities that a version of the case come with no preinstalled fans. A lot of who are really into cases probably have their own set of fans already. Why not cut down the price a bit and let us decide what fans we want to use?
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I second this!
 
It would be possible to cut the price down without the fans, but most people want the fans installed. I would say that, in general, a commercial version would have to be shipped with fans. We could alsways have one with VERY cheap ones that would have to be replaced.:D
We took some time, lots of efforts and also money, to select quiet fans with substantial airflow. I don't think you will be that disappointed with what you get. But of course, everybody is welcome to put their own. :p
 
You can offer the 2 case options, fans installed and fans optional. Then you can sell the fans on your site, for people that didn't get them. I personally would want them installed.
 
Meh, for the fans just give them the option to pick what ones they want from a pre-determined list.
Over-kill is overkill afterall...
 
mattinv said:
It would be possible to cut the price down without the fans, but most people want the fans installed. I would say that, in general, a commercial version would have to be shipped with fans. We could alsways have one with VERY cheap ones that would have to be replaced.:D
We took some time, lots of efforts and also money, to select quiet fans with substantial airflow. I don't think you will be that disappointed with what you get. But of course, everybody is welcome to put their own. :p
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Offer them cheap fans. Don't forget to include a cheap "1000W" psu:D

I like your time and effort put into this detail, though.
 
Don't cheapen the case by adding sub-par fans. Either leave them out or put good ones in :)
 
People are gettin hella picky. Haha, gotta understand that they are a new company and dont have a ton of money to make a lot of revisions.
 
Steeeeve said:
Don't cheapen the case by adding sub-par fans. Either leave them out or put good ones in :)
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I agree with Steeeeve somewhat. Many buyers will not want to bother with yanking out fans to replace them with better or adding fans to a case that has none so you'd be better off putting in good quality fans and if the person doesn't like them then they can do whatever. Most likely if they do replace them he/she will be an enthusiast and will not think twice about it. Most buyers will not be enthusiasts though and won't be happy paying $160 for a case that doesnt even have fans. I know I'd be unhappy to pay that much money and get no decent fans at all.
 
Skott said:
I agree with Steeeeve somewhat. Many buyers will not want to bother with yanking out fans to replace them with better or adding fans to a case that has none so you'd be better off putting in good quality fans and if the person doesn't like them then they can do whatever. Most likely if they do replace them he/she will be an enthusiast and will not think twice about it. Most buyers will not be enthusiasts though and won't be happy paying $160 for a case that doesnt even have fans. I know I'd be unhappy to pay that much money and get no decent fans at all.
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But if you're shelling out $160 for a SFF case shouldn't you be an enthusiast? I really don't see your average joe going out and buying a cube case, it's really not that standard of a form factor after all.
 
diduknowthat said:
But if you're shelling out $160 for a SFF case shouldn't you be an enthusiast? I really don't see your average joe going out and buying a cube case, it's really not that standard of a form factor after all.
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Actually AMD released some data the other day (well, they published an industry study) showing smaller cases are becoming the standard. In fact Anandtech recently had a review saying mATX is the new ATX and mini-itx is the new mATX. I wouldn't be surprised if you see more of this.
 
diduknowthat said:
But if you're shelling out $160 for a SFF case shouldn't you be an enthusiast? I really don't see your average joe going out and buying a cube case, it's really not that standard of a form factor after all.
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No, not really. Just because you buy something expensive doesn't make you an enthusiast. You could be an average person just buying the best case. My prediction is if they leave out the fans or put in crappy ones there will be more complaints than praise about it. Even an enthusiast will complain about it.
 
Skott said:
No, not really. Just because you buy something expensive doesn't make you an enthusiast. You could be an average person just buying the best case. My prediction is if they leave out the fans or put in crappy ones there will be more complaints than praise about it. Even an enthusiast will complain about it.
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But you also have to consider where this product is being sold. Probably not at your local Best Buy or Microcenter. It's on the same level as SG03's and such, it's geared more towards the enthusiast crowd. It'd make more sense if there's a base model, and then you have the option to order fans that come with it.
 
Skott said:
No, not really. Just because you buy something expensive doesn't make you an enthusiast. You could be an average person just buying the best case. My prediction is if they leave out the fans or put in crappy ones there will be more complaints than praise about it. Even an enthusiast will complain about it.
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I totally agree. Having said that I can also see where having a no fan option might appeal to some buyers as well. I would not include low quality fans under any circumstances. The options may be limited by his distribution chain though. I would include the fans if only one option is feasible.

I agree that "Da Box" does not appeal to me. Massive Overkill's MOM idea is much better. I would actually call it the MOM though. And have the full name be secondary. I actually like micro MOM and mini MOM. The full name could be the micro Massive Overkill Mobile V1 or something like that. So we would have Lan Gear's micro MOM v1. Or the Massive Overkill Mentality 01. You get the idea. I just like saying micro MOM and mini MOM though ;). And then you could have an add on external port multiplied or RAID box Mod for extra drives or some other add on that you could call DAD! Dangerous Additional Disks or some such. Also...then we could say...have you seen Lan Gear's Mom yet?" and "You guys don't stand a chance today...I brought my MOM and DAD!"

I am not as big a Gamer as my teenage son. He likes the MOM name too by the way. I was glad to see you are adding an option for a full 5.25 opening on the case. Now I can use it for many other purposes without a Mod! Liked the slanted fan idea in the back top of the case and think it will actually help airflow having it vent out the back instead of out the top. A fun case using some neat ideas. Loved the Red interior idea with the ASUS maximus III gene board and I usually only like all black. Is the Red SE idea out the window already?

And yes...I am new to this forum. Signed up to join the discussion on this amazing little case. Very nice work and fun forum.
 
Thank you for all your support, once again, I hope you are suggesting the product to New Egg because I'm getting ready to call them personally and talk business (https://secure.newegg.com/FeedBack/ShallWeCarry.aspx).
We are a very small company at this point, but I'll do my best to see if we can make a version without the fans. Would you like the version without the fans to be the all black one or the one not anodized inside (price would decrease of around $10 for each I would anticipate)?
I'll do my best to bring you this baby at the lowest price possible.:D Volume is everything, so the more orders we get, the lower the sticker price.
 
I can't wait until this comes out. The MOM will be the mother of all matx cases.

Any word on a release date?
 
mattinv said:
We are a very small company at this point, but I'll do my best to see if we can make a version without the fans. Would you like the version without the fans to be the all black one or the one not anodized inside (price would decrease of around $10 for each I would anticipate)?
I'll do my best to bring you this baby at the lowest price possible.:D Volume is everything, so the more orders we get, the lower the sticker price.
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If you decide to offer a non fan version I would rather it be the non-anodized (inside) version. The fully anodized then provides the extra value of interior color and fans. You could also offer a fan upgrade kit on your own website for slightly more than the cost difference. You could even include a coupon in the packaging offering 10% off accessories or some such at your web site. For extra face plates, fans, covers with windows etc. The 10% is just marketing of course. Make sure you adjust the price accordingly to ensure a fair margin.

Would that 10 dollars really scare any of you away though?

I am ready to send Lan Gear $200 for my micro MOM right now cuz it looks like such a fun case to mess around with. They can keep the change too. Just tell me where to send it. Consider it an R and D donation.

I would like to know if the first production run will have that fully open 5.25" bay in front though. I would want that option for my purposes. You mentioned it earlier but I am not sure it was totally clarified when that option would be available.

And the reason I like micro MOM instead of just MOM is it tells us a model size and is still easy to say. That way a mini MOM could be next.
 
If people don't like Massive Overkill Mobile for "MOM"...it could stand for Mother of (all) Mobiles similar to what WILSONRDFL said about it being the mother of all mATX.

Just for consideration...my wife liked "DA BOX" much better than "MOM". But she will never be in the demographic that purchases one. Something to think about.
 
Novatech said:
If people don't like Massive Overkill Mobile for "MOM"...it could stand for Mother of (all) Mobiles similar to what WILSONRDFL said about it being the mother of all mATX.
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I was just about to put your check in the mail too :p

BTW Mattinev, I live a mile from Performance-PC's. They're a perfect outlet as they cater to higher-end customers. If they won't buy an evaluation model, I'll gladly take the one I buy over and show it to them.
 
diduknowthat said:
Just a quick question and suggestion about the case. Is the Accelero 1 rev 2 graphics card heatsink going to fit in this case?
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Judging solely from the images mattinv has posted and from my experiences owning an Accelero S1, I think it would fit if the exhaust fan was removed. I could be wrong.

Novatech said:
I would not include low quality fans under any circumstances.
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I concur. Decent quality or nothing.
 
MassiveOverkill said:
I was just about to put your check in the mail too :p

BTW Mattinev, I live a mile from Performance-PC's. They're a perfect outlet as they cater to higher-end customers. If they won't buy an evaluation model, I'll gladly take the one I buy over and show it to them.
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I'll keep them on the contact list. I have to admit, I'm way busy right now polishing the design, and I'm waiting to finalize some details before I contact any retail outlets. But I promise, we are putting all our effort to get it out as soon as possible, and start sending the production samples for reviews. I just don't know how fast we will be able to start producing them and shipping them depending on the demand.:p

For the temperature testing, I'm going to run a series of test using this (sitting outside of the case):
11-992-004-11.jpg


But we also have a special set of sensors which is a bit more accurate and gives us some nice graph.
 
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The Accelero S1 should fit. But you might have to remove the inclined bracket to mount the video card instead of just sliding it in. No big deal I guess, just 4 more screws.
 
kencheeto said:
White anodized inside with black anodized outside, machined steel case feet with white LEDs would be a sale on my count.
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I would definitely have to purchase that case as well, that matches my tastes exactly!

Very nice case design mattinv, one of the few I have ever liked aside from Lian Li and Silverstone
 
[REMOVED by me]

Thanks again everybody for all your support. We are making last minute changes to optimize cost and bring it to you as soon as we can.
 
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for the "preheat air" he was probably looking at the 92hdd intake being so close to the psu exhaust.
maybe using the back 120 as intake and exhausting with the 92mm would negate the pre heat air
 
asiandunn30 said:
for the "preheat air" he was probably looking at the 92hdd intake being so close to the psu exhaust.
maybe using the back 120 as intake and exhausting with the 92mm would negate the pre heat air
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In the final version, it will be fixed in such a way that it will be very unlikely, unless it happens outside of the case and warm air stop naturally rising up. But in the current setting, we have not seen any impact even without the final modification (PSU outside of the case, front PSU intake and PSU exhaust hole plugged up).
So I'm not sure how to reassure the few of you having this concern except saying that the tests don't show any impact so far (but I haven't tried to load the PSU to its maximum, which is asking a lot considering the 750W PSU I'm using right now and the micro ATX limitations to a SLI/Crossfire of 2 cards).
And no, I don't have 2 5870, but I welcome donations - or loans.:D
 
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"I'm just saying that there's nothing innovative about the design"
I haven't seen a true SFF case with a standard Full ATX PSU on the front, the HDD slots over the ram, in a case small enough to fit full size CPU heatsink. All that in a well ventilated case.

According to wikipedia, Lan Gear Innovated. It did not invent. I quote:
"An innovation is a new way of doing something. It may refer to incremental and emergent or radical and revolutionary changes in thinking, products, processes, or organizations. Following Schumpeter (1934), contributors to the scholarly literature on innovation typically distinguish between invention, an idea made manifest, and innovation, ideas applied successfully in practice. In many fields, something new must be substantially different to be innovative, not an insignificant change, e.g., in the arts, economics, business and government policy. In economics the change must increase value, customer value, or producer value. The goal of innovation is positive change, to make someone or something better. Innovation leading to increased productivity is the fundamental source of increasing wealth in an economy."
"[...]innovation may be linked to performance and growth through improvements in efficiency, productivity, quality, competitive positioning, market share, etc."
 
Have you considered doing a thermal imaging test on the case to see if fans should be added or deleted and maybe where the hot pockets are?
 
Steeeeve said:
Have you considered doing a thermal imaging test on the case to see if fans should be added or deleted and maybe where the hot pockets are?
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You bet, we have been looking at thermal imaging these last two weeks to use to find any hot pockets. But we have to finish the design to be ready for production, and the first temperature tests are extremely promising. And we need to have enough funds left to rent one after everything else is done.
At this point, we might have too many fans, if this is even possible for the enthusiast crowd we are aiming at with DA BOX.;)
 
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mattinv said:
In the final version, it will be fixed in such a way that it will be very unlikely, unless it happens outside of the case and warm air stop naturally rising up. But in the current setting, we have not seen any impact even without the final modification (PSU outside of the case, front PSU intake and PSU exhaust hole plugged up).
So I'm not sure how to reassure the few of you having this concern except saying that the tests don't show any impact so far (but I haven't tried to load the PSU to its maximum, which is asking a lot considering the 750W PSU I'm using right now and the micro ATX limitations to a SLI/Crossfire of 2 cards).
And no, I don't have 2 5870, but I welcome donations - or loans.:D
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The 90mm/60mm fan mount is removable right? I just plan on using an Antec Spot cool.
 
mattinv said:
This is a direct quote from the founder of PClab. (Google cache is your friend).
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:JR2SLv7fOAcJ:www.pcdesignlab.com/smf/index.php%3Ftopic%3D416.0+lan+gear+pcdesignlab&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
I have to say, I take this post as a compliment. Thank you again Steeve for generating this kind of posts.

Post #1

eya Steve,

Good to hear from ya man. It's just another ugly Qpack clone which Qv2 has always been superior to and our new mini-ITX stuff will make this type of box look even more ancient. Also, 100% USA made? I may be proven wrong but the design has "Made in China" written all over it. BTW... how do these guys get away with whoring their case on [H] when Kyle burned me for doing the exact same thing... even after asking him for an ok?

Finally, where's their website and contact info? Hmmm... I see they said their company name is "Lan Gear". Have fun getting a top search ranking for that generic name. Also, langear.com is for sale... why haven't they bought it? And they chose "Da Box" over all the other cool aggressive names people submitted? 30% off of purchase price for the winner? Sorry but this brings up all kinds of red flags for me.
Logged

Post #2

No... you said, "Don't ban me for posting this!" which is still up in the air for putting this thing on my site... haha. :p

It's the same style box, base, cover, MB tray, etc. as the Qpack and he's just moving hardware around a bit. The new PSU location blocks the front intake, it'll pre-heat the air going into the case, it looks like power cable management will cause problems for longer vid cards, it takes up the room of external bays and HDD slots, and I could go on and on.

Anyway, I'm just saying that there's nothing innovative about the design and something is dodgy about this. Looking at mattinv's past posting history on [H]... it seems like he might just be a young guy with some big dreams. Best of luck to him but I have some doubts about the validity of his statements and success of his product.

My answer to a few points:

It's just another ugly Qpack clone which Qv2 has always been superior to and our new mini-ITX
The Qpack and this case have very little in common, except the fact they both have a MB tray. DA BOX is smaller in size, it is made of 2mm thick brushed anodized aluminum, and it only has 1 5.25" bay, (which explains why DA BOX is not as high). It fits every full size heatsinks, long size video cards. Up to 5 hard drives. Has 2 120mm fans for exhaust, now an extra 140mm fan optional (intake or exhaust), 2 92mm fans for intakes. So I'm not sure what you mean by clone.
"ugly", I guess this is a question of taste. I guess quite a few people seem to disagree with you.
'Superior', I beg to differ. DA BOX could qualify as superior indeed depending of your use.

For the mini ITX poke, let me just tell you that when our current mini ITX design comes out, you might say once again there is nothing new about it. But it's going to wipe out the competition, in its category (gamer oriented)...:D That's how confident I am about it!!!:cool:

100% USA made? I may be proven wrong but the design has "Made in China" written all over it
Indeed, it is 99% made in the USA, design and everything else, with aluminum sheets made in the USA. You'll just have to grasp the concept that we are trying to bring a case to the market taking as little money as we can and offering the best deal we can to our customers. The only parts coming from China are the switches, the buttons and the fans (because that's where this stuff is made).

these guys get away with whoring their case on [H] when Kyle burned me for doing the exact same thing
Maybe because we decided to build a product from scratch listening to the feedback of the community. Maybe because we did not criticize what is already out there and other people work but found ways to improve.

PSU location blocks the front intake, it'll pre-heat the air going into the case, it looks like power cable management will cause problems for longer vid cards, it takes up the room of external bays and HDD slots, and I could go on and on
No, the PSU has its own air circuit / heat zone. It takes fresh air from the outside and push it back DIRECTLY outside. There are plenty of HDD slots. And yes, cable management can be tough if you go for a non modular power supply. I tested with a 750 Corsair PSU non modular (the most popular on NewEgg). It fits, all the cables are in, but it is fairly difficult to manage. What do you expect with a SLI set up and 5HDD in such a small case. The fact is that, even with all that stuff in, the temperatures registered during a burn are still very low.

I see they said their company name is "Lan Gear". Have fun getting a top search ranking for that generic name.
I think we are doing pretty good in the search engine area. Did you try typing Lan Gear or DA BOX lately? This is funny, it's making a search under Google that I came across your post. By posting, you actually advertise for Lan Gear, so I'd like to thank you.:D

it seems like he might just be a young guy with some big dreams
Thank you, absolutely true. This compliment goes straight to my heart.:D *tears of joy*
So despite of my age, you'd have to agree I'm not doing too bad!


Note: I welcome you to come and comment. Good luck to your projects also. Its people like you and myself that can come up with some of the best design. I might have an opening at Lan Gear soon if you are interested.:p

Thanks again everybody for all your support. We are making last minute changes to optimize cost and bring it to you as soon as we can.
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Okay, this is just me making a friendly suggestion so don't take it wrong please. :)

Take my advice and don't post people's messages like you just did. Wether Dave (founder of PCDLabs) is right or not its just not proper to take a message he had between himself and another and then posting it here. It makes you look like you are trying to start something and you don't need that and you'll probably find many readers won't want to hear.

So my advice is to take the high road with it and just go about building the case and business and don't worry about the criticism too much. You will get it a lot of criticism no matter how great your idea is so let your skin grow thick. In fact you may want to look at any supposed design flaws people point out and see if changes need to be made to improve the overall design. :)
 
Skott said:
Okay, this is just me making a friendly suggestion so don't take it wrong please. :)

Take my advice and don't post people's messages like you just did. Wether Dave (founder of PCDLabs) is right or not its just not proper to take a message he had between himself and another and then posting it here. It makes you look like you are trying to start something and you don't need that and you'll probably find many readers won't want to hear.

So my advice is to take the high road with it and just go about building the case and business and don't worry about the criticism too much. You will get it a lot of criticism no matter how great your idea is so let your skin grow thick. In fact you may want to look at any supposed design flaws people point out and see if changes need to be made to improve the overall design. :)
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You are right, I always welcome constructive criticism.
I was not trying to start something, I apologize if this is how it came across. So we'll just go back to normal business and close these parentheses.
 
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Those comments were removed shortly after being posted as it was just kicking the tires sort of speak. I sincerely bare no ill will toward mattinv or his project so no one should take it as such. Because of my experience with this type of thing, I would've expressed the same concerns to him directly had he asked me for an opinion… and probably would've done it just as bluntly. *lol* But I understand how it could put him on the defensive considering the source and manner in which it was received and regret if it dampened his enthusiasm in any way. Ideally, I like to encourage ingenuity and entrepreneurship within the case modding/building community… competitors included. So I meant it when I wished mattinv the best of luck and sincerely look forward to seeing what you all come up with. ;)

Regards,
Dave
 
I have asked mattinv to remove (or ask to remove) the comments that mention me or elude to me. I'd rather just have the admin remove these last 5-6 posts but the original posters should be able to handle it. Keeping them up just makes everyone look bad.
 
pcd said:
Those comments were removed shortly after being posted as it was just kicking the tires sort of speak. I sincerely bare no ill will toward mattinv or his project so no one should take it as such. Because of my experience with this type of thing, I would've expressed the same concerns to him directly had he asked me for an opinion… and probably would've done it just as bluntly. *lol* But I understand how it could put him on the defensive considering the source and manner in which it was received and regret if it dampened his enthusiasm in any way. Ideally, I like to encourage ingenuity and entrepreneurship within the case modding/building community… competitors included. So I meant it when I wished mattinv the best of luck and sincerely look forward to seeing what you all come up with. ;)

Regards,
Dave
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Thank you Dave. No worries, my enthusiasm is as strong as ever.:D
 
Very interested in this case, was looking at the 351, but this looks to fix a few of the issues in the 351 design.
 
Little update on the planning.
We should have the first shipment starting the third week of November. We are trying to have it for sale online by Thanksgiving. Some reviews should be posted this same week we hope.
We are doing our best but there are always some little delays.
Hopefully, we should have some more tests (temperature) coming in the next two weeks also.
 
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