NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by wahaha360, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

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    Spot the odd one out :p
     
  2. Alai

    Alai 2[H]4U

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    I can buy 20,000 pennies with that money! Do you know what I could DO with that many pennies?!?!
     
  3. Necere

    Necere 2[H]4U

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    Any of the slimmer single-fan CLCs should fit fine (e.g., H60, Kuhler 620, etc.). Or an H100 If you're using an SFX PSU and don't need the 3.5" cage.

    I wouldn't really recommend the GTX 690 in this case, because 1.) need to use an ATX PSU, 2.) dumps half its heat inside the case. If it's an option, the Titan is a much better choice.
     
  4. cowsgomoo

    cowsgomoo Gawd

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. NickJames

    NickJames [H]ardness Supreme

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  6. Nemesis429

    Nemesis429 [H]Lite

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    You guys should have made it mATX, still looks amazing nonetheless.
     
  7. crABtoad

    crABtoad Limp Gawd

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    Different form factor for different folks I guess... I like the way it's turned out. I admit to being surprised at the radiator limitations, but I find solace in the fact that I can pick up some thin rads or buy a Corsair H100i.
     
  8. cookiePlant

    cookiePlant n00b

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    Awesome case! If I want to use an ATX PSU and a sound card in the 3rd expansion slot where can I place a 3.5 hdd? If I use a 10.5 inch graphics card (gtx titan) is there any chance I can place one above the front I/O pannel where the hole is in the picture? In worst case would a 2.5 hdd fit there? Thanks!
     
  9. Jason_CL

    Jason_CL CaseLabs Forum Rep

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    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmNO. No. No.

    There are SO few itx chassis on the market, especially for the modding/enthusiast communities.

    If I were gonna go itx, this is the case I'd get. Hands down.
     
  10. cowsgomoo

    cowsgomoo Gawd

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    Although I prefer the size of mITX, I wonder how small it can get if Necere makes a mATX case in the same design. It should be smaller than the SG09.
     
  11. cjuk

    cjuk n00b

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    This is awesome.

    I would like to put my upcoming HTPC/NAS/General-under-the-TV-awesomeness build in one of these. Its perfect!

    I hope Lian Li become the OEM. I like their build quality.

    Apologies for not reading all of the 100+ pages. But do we know when units may begin shipping? Obviously prototypes are still in the works, but are we talking a few months?

    Thanks
     
  12. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

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    I offer the counter-point of running a decent NAS (Synology or decent DIY) and moving all the static storage (like music, movies, photos, backups, documents) there. With Gbit being the norm, there is no really good reason for anything else than an SSD in your SFF computer.
     
  13. a) Lian Li is already the OEM (prototype is done, check OP)

    b) There will be a second round of crowdfunding to pay directly for your case. The team has yet to receive their prototype, tinker with it and, provided everything is fully functional, they stated that cases should be shipping around August (if everything goes as planned, which normally doesn't).
     
  14. crABtoad

    crABtoad Limp Gawd

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    Yeah this is kinda where my thinking was going on configuration too... I was looking forward to having an mPCIE adapter, 240mm rad CLC, pair of 3.5" HDDs in RAID1, and possibly an x1 PCIE extender cable connected to a discrete sound card...

    I think my eyes were too big for the case's stomach as it were.

    If I move the 3.5" drives into a NAS box (makes more sense to have them there so my motherboard's NIC isn't doing double duty), and get a thin rad CLC, I can *maybe* fit the rest of the toys I want.

    I'm still 100% on this case, really looking forward to it... Even if it isn't the Shmoo I was looking for. :p

    edit:// I accidentally a number.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  15. cookiePlant

    cookiePlant n00b

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    The reason I want to get a SFF is because I need to travel back and forth between countries on a regular basis which doesn't make NAS a viable solution. So is there any hope with mounting a 3.5 hdd down there? Thanks
     
  16. cowsgomoo

    cowsgomoo Gawd

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    Have you considered an external hard disk?
     
  17. cookiePlant

    cookiePlant n00b

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    Yeh, but thats one more thing to lumber around. I have to carry all my technological valuables with me through airport security and just want to keep the number of separate things I carry to a bare minimum.
     
  18. cowsgomoo

    cowsgomoo Gawd

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    There's a 15mm tall 2.5" 2TB Western Digital drive, albeit overpriced. It might be easier to find places to fit one or two of them than a 3.5".
    Also, I don't know the size of the Titan, but I thought there's a space for a 3.5" drive below the GPU.
    I'm also in the same situation as you where I may relocate for a month or two overseas anytime.
     
  19. cookiePlant

    cookiePlant n00b

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    Yeah there would be space there, but I want to get a dedicated sound card :p.
     
  20. cowsgomoo

    cowsgomoo Gawd

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    You sure are a greedy one. :D
     
  21. *Daedalus

    *Daedalus [H]Lite

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    You could fit a 1.5/2TB laptop drive up the front I'm sure, possibly even a desktop drive. Most sound cards aren't much longer than a PCI slot.
     
  22. cookiePlant

    cookiePlant n00b

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    When I say upfront I mean placed vertically against the bottom part of the front pannel, so that I can get air intake through the part of the bottom pannel that isn't occupied by the sound card. Maybe im being to greedy :p but its worth a shot to ask haha
     
  23. Necere

    Necere 2[H]4U

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    Well, you can't have everything - sadly TARDIS technology doesn't exist (yet). You'll have to make some sacrifices, and in this case, if you want to use all three slots plus an ATX PSU, it means there's not room enough left for a 3.5" HDD. What you do have, still, is one 2.5" drive mount on the inside front:

    [​IMG]


    You've also got another 2.5" mount behind the front panel if you're not using an optical drive:

    [​IMG]


    And if all you're using is a sound card in the third slot (however you go about that), and it's not one of those with a shroud over the card (i.e., a bare PCB), you could probably still get a 2.5" on the bottom mount:

    [​IMG]


    If you really need 3.5" drives, consider using an SFX PSU. The 450W SilverStone units are enough, I believe, to run a Titan.
     
  24. cookiePlant

    cookiePlant n00b

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    Wow, thanks a lot for your reply Necere. Seriously, its amazing how you respond to everyone! I Like the 3rd option you suggested, ill have a look for a good bare PCB sound card.
     
  25. crABtoad

    crABtoad Limp Gawd

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    HT Omega eClaro is supposed to be quite good... I was going to get one instead of the ASUS Essence STX. It's quite small and offers similar sound quality.

    Edit:// In regards to running the GTX Titan off of an SFX ST45SF-G PSU... I've seen people doing it online but I can't seem to locate total system power consumption on any such threads... The only sources for power consumption I can find are from reviewers testing the card in a full blown ATX rig.

    That being said...

    Tom's Hardware puts the peak total power consumption around 425W,
    Tech PowerUp puts the individual card's power consumption peak @238W, maximum @263W,
    Legit Reviews pegs it around 390W during Furmark burn-in,
    PC Perspective's load @365W...

    So it definitely looks possible to run the card on aforementioned PSU. I don't know how comfortable I'd be running it on a low efficiency or low quality 450W... But a nice one would do the trick apparently.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  26. cookiePlant

    cookiePlant n00b

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    But then theres also many comments that describe the SFX ST45SF-G as being very noisy and that it can heat up quite a bit.
     
  27. crABtoad

    crABtoad Limp Gawd

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    You'll probably have to take a shot in the arm from somewhere building an "everything and the kitchen sink" SFF rig.

    There's a couple ways to mod the ST45SF-G for lower noise that I've seen...

    One would be to pop the PSU open, cut the leads on the included fan, and solder on a Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PC-P 80mm x 15mm Ultra Silent PWM Fan - 2500 RPM as a replacement.

    Tony has said that this *may* interfere with the PSU at high capacities, but he might just be following protocol after a fashion. Some folks around here (Machupo :p) have been very satisfied with the results this brings. I can't seem to locate the thread that had some more detailed how-to instructions at the moment though.

    The other way I've seen is maybe better in the long run... But, I'll let you see for yourself.

    ***Both of these mods will void the warranty on the power supply.***

    edit:// When you say you want a sound card for the 3rd expansion slot, I assume you mean to use an mPCIE to PCIE adapter card... As a reminder, the PCIE adapter card *also* has to have somewhere to live.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  28. CHANG3D

    CHANG3D [H]ardness Supreme

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    I have a SFX ST45SF PSU. I do not have a Titan, but I can tell you that with my 670 GTX, my computer would randomly restart with a third hard-drive plugged in the power. Currently, I have a ssd and two HDDs in my computer. Since my SSD is my boot drive, I wouldn't be unplugging that. But if I have both HDDs plugged in, my computer would crash. And it doesn't matter which one. I tested it. (I also used to have another SSD in there. Even that would crash it too. I just cannot have a third hard-drive plugged in. I have since moved that SSD to my old laptop and gave it new life.) So I used one of my big PSU an XFX 700W PSU to test it, lo and behold, they all work (including the other SSD) without crashing.

    What I'm saying here is to keep your drives to a limit of 2.
     
  29. *Daedalus

    *Daedalus [H]Lite

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    I'm calling bull on that one. My i7 950 / GTX 580 setup pulled 375W from the wall under heavy load, and that was a far more power hungry system than more recent ones.

    Also, hard drives use between 5 and 8 watts of power.
     
  30. xorbe

    xorbe [H]ardness Supreme

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    My i7 920 / GTX 570 peaked just over 600W from the wall! Yeah, lol at the hdd thing ... a few watts.
     
  31. crABtoad

    crABtoad Limp Gawd

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    Could be a fault in the power supply itself because I doubt having an extra HDD connected would be enough to thermal trip the computer... HDDs and SSDs really only use a couple watts/amps though.
     
  32. Diverge

    Diverge Gawd

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    The ST45SF and ST45SF-G are 2 different power supplies, made by 2 different OEM's.

    ST45SF = FSP
    ST45SF-G = Enhance Electronics.

    I run my 2500K (4.2-4.5GHz) and Titan (1124MHz) on one, and have no issues. I only use one drive so far (mSATA). Although the other day I started to get hard reboots. I bumped up my cpu voltage a tiny bit and haven't seen it happen yet.

    I've also ran OCCT and Furmark at the same time, and the PSU held it's own, although was pulling a lot from the wall (I forget exact numbers offhand).
     
  33. wreckem

    wreckem [H]Lite

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    I plan to make a haswell build with titan and this case so I have looked into this topic.

    At 100% peak load every component, according to the various PSU wattage calculators, a stock 3770k, stock titan, 2 DIMMS, 2 "green" HDDs, 1 ODD, 1 SSD, 4 120mm fans, and 1 92mm fan will use 430watts, with 480 watts being recommended.

    I can't verify that independently but that is what more than one PSU wattage calculator has come up with. But thats 100% peak on everything, which isn't going to be seen for day to day usage, so long as you aren't using software that maxes out all 4 cores and the video card.

    I am planning on building the following

    4770K
    Titan
    2 DIMMS
    2 SSDs (or 1 SSD and 1 ODD)
    4 120mm Noiseblocker eLoops fans
    1 92mm Noiseblocker fan

    I should be more than fine with that build on the the Silverstone ST45SF-G. If my calculations are correct I will be under just 400watts at 100% load, with the possibility of having room to spare to overclock. A 500watt SFX PSU would be an amazing thing but I doubt one is released this year, it would allow more spare room for overclocking, etc.

    My current pc is going to be turned into a home server/media server so I won't be using HDDs in this system. I will also probably be using an external blu ray drive and using two SSDs(hopefully the lower cost 960GB drives from Crucial are released and are as fast as other SSDs). Edit: Apparently I should have been paying better attention. Crucial has finally started shipping its sub $600 960GB SSD. Not the fastest SSD, but still plenty fast for $600. Hopefully one of two things happens before August, a faster 960GB SSD comes out at the sub $600 price range, or the Crucial 960GB drops a little in price.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  34. Diverge

    Diverge Gawd

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    According to this review, the ST45SF-G put out 578W DC before overload protection kicked in (694 on the AC side). Obviously you don't want to be put that kind of load on it, since tolerances will probably fall out of spec. But it shows that it's a pretty capable PSU. I'd still like a 500W SFX supply though :)

    http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/SilverStone-ST45SF-G-Power-Supply-Review/1662/9
     
  35. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

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    No, he didn't say that, although that's the second time someone's claimed that he did.

    The worry isn't so much high capacities, it's low capacities, since the Noiseblocker fan runs one third the rpms at idle than the stock fan. In an hot environment, that may not be enough for tightly packed components to keep cool. At high speeds it almost matches the stock fan for pressure/airflow.

    Basically all he's saying that they didn't choose a quieter profile on their stock fan because some of their customers live in hot places. Makes sense.
     
  36. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

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    If you require the utmost extreme performance, why choose one of the smallest mITX cases that can harbor an entire PC ? I'm all for efficiency but I don't get the "I NEED a Titan and max overclocked i7-3770K plus bunch of 3.5" HDD's and a high-end soundcard, but it seems like a tight fit".

    Well duh.
     
  37. I hear you. People can't expect to have everything in one of the smallest cases the market will see in a long time ;)
     
  38. crABtoad

    crABtoad Limp Gawd

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    Eek, thanks for the correction.:D
     
  39. cookiePlant

    cookiePlant n00b

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    There are many legitimate reasons why one would want to pack the most performance in the smallest possible enclosure. I think some of the people who seek the most performance in an ITX case, would get a high end ATX system instead if practicality would allow it. For people like me, who need to travel on a somewhat regular basis, its not practical to have huge cases. Others might not have the space to accomodate such a build. As with many other areas of life people do excessive and pointless things for fun. For some its cars, for us its computers. For me its a fun pastime to ponder how much performance I can pack in the smallest possible enclosure.
     
  40. M4rk

    M4rk Gawd

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    That's fine as long as you don't go complaining/disparaging a product because it fails to meet your expanded needs. The NCASE M1 was designed to match a specific set of requirements. Now that it's become more well-known, folks are showing up and asking for the case to be something it can't be, or wasn't designed to be. ;)