Multi GPU's and gamers

[Sly]

Could also tell him Crossfire is on when it's really off or the other way around.

He snuck a second card into his sons pc and he still noticed.

 

[heatlesssun]

wow... just wow... Over 100 posts later and you still don't get it. You're too dense for words and quite frankly, it's not worth repeating what you've been ignoring the entire time you've participated in this thread.

You're too funny! Look this is what you said:

My main gripe is that if I'm going to pay double or triple for the GPU's alone (not including a more expensive board, power supply, power consumption and monitors) I want it to be better at EVERYTHING. As of now, the issue of micro-stuttering has not been solved, it's simply been masked by powerful GPU's operating at very high FPS, but it won't be long before games get more demanding and bring fps down, especially when we're talking about a 3D surround setup.

If/when that happens, I'll be a fan.

You said it had to better in EVERYTHING before you were intrested. Seems like an impossible task is all I'm trying to relay.

 

[heatlesssun]

Uh, Source Engine NEVER, EVER stutter for me on Single GPU.. NEVER...

There are plenty of games that I feel a huge delay with..
EX: Call of Duty 4, Crysis(seriously noticeable), UT3, BC2 (the mouse become way too smooth in Multi-GPU)... etc.

Those game gave me the most impression that have delays on, there are others, but I cannot remember.

The delay is fine in single player gaming (AI don't react that fast as me ), but in tournament/competition is horrible....

Well all you have to do is a web search that find people that say that they see it with single GPU setups. Here's an example: http://www.techsupportforum.com/gam.../342231-counter-strike-source-stuttering.html

Doesn't prove anything other than it depends which is all this ENTIRE thread has to say at its core anyway.

 

[shansoft]

Well all you have to do is a web search that find people that say that they see it with single GPU setups. Here's an example: http://www.techsupportforum.com/gam.../342231-counter-strike-source-stuttering.html

Doesn't prove anything other than it depends which is all this ENTIRE thread has to say at its core anyway.

there is clearly something wrong with his setting.

he is getting 30fps while using a 8800 GTS, that sounds like there is something going on other than game engine issue.

"Whenever I close the game it will be still using up information in the backgroun, I have to open up task manager, go into processes select hl2.exe (running 50%) and delete it manually.
Almost all my games come up with the error message saying that the program had crashed."

looks like there is something other than simple engine issue there...

 

[RamonGTP]

You're too funny! Look this is what you said:



You said it had to better in EVERYTHING before you were intrested. Seems like an impossible task is all I'm trying to relay.

With the products and technology we're using today, you're absolutly right, it is impossible, which is why I've chosen to stick with a single GPU solution. I'm hoping that will change in the future and if/when it does, the technology will be worth my money.

 

[bizzmeister]

Ive been gaming since cs first came out and ive gone through numerous setups. Not once have i felt this microstutter some of you people are talking about with multi gpu's. And i dont consider myself pro but i have played competively as long as i could remember.

 

[heatlesssun]

With the products and technology we're using today, you're absolutely right, it is impossible, which is why I've chosen to stick with a single GPU solution. I'm hoping that will change in the future and if/when it does, the technology will be worth my money.

But as you just said, no technology is perfect, not even that single GPU.

The benefits of multi-GPU are EXTENSIVELY documented by thousands of people, across hardware, games and time. Yes, there is the in comparison to the benefit of multi-GPU the esoteric issue of microstutter that can occur from time to time depending on the game, the hardware and the person. This very thread starts out with this situation. One person saw something that another person didn't. So right off the bat we have a problem that can't even be reproduced by two different people playing the same game on the same hardware. We could on and on with it and never find anything conclusive across different combinations of games, hardware and people.

So if you decide that this issue, one in which even you would not see in every game across all possible hardware, as I said before, it's just not humanly possible, is so bad to negate the long and well documented benefits that multi-GPU has provided for years, benefits that are EASILY seen across games, hardware AND people, so be it.

But its not exactly the strongest argument that one can make against a technology. As you said, no technology is perfect, not even a single GPU. Indeed two of the most powerful single GPUs is an inherently better solution as you not only get the benefits of multi-GPU, you can always fall back to a single powerful GPU, in the case, which in my experience is uncommon in the last few years, multi-GPU has issues, including of course multi-GPU microstuttering.

 

[RamonGTP]

I didn't say it had to be perfect, I said it had to be better at everything, at the VERY least, not be worse at anything. If it had equivilent input lag and micro-stuttering while maintaining it's performance advantage that would be adequate for me.

I'm well aware of the benefits and i'm not questiong that, it's the drawbacks that I'm concerned with. Now there are some draw backs, like cost and power that will always be there, but those I don't care about. It's the drawbacks that affect it at a functional level that would need to be addressed before I find it to be a viable solution.

Disabling the other GPU's I don't find a suitable solution. Mainly beacuse, chances are that I'll notice these issues more so on the demanding games that push lower fps numbers, and those games are where I would want the power of multi-gpu.

 

[heatlesssun]

Ive been gaming since cs first came out and ive gone through numerous setups. Not once have i felt this microstutter some of you people are talking about with multi gpu's. And i dont consider myself pro but i have played competively as long as i could remember.

Let's do this. You and shansoft, one on one in a CS Tournament, bizzmeister with dual 480s, shansoft with one 480, and the winner gets the final word on microstuttering, at least in CS.

Of course on might be such a much better player than the other, and I'm not saying it's either on of you, but I find the idea intriguing. Having two people that say opposite things about microstuttering going head to head. Heck having teams on different sides of the issue. Could be VERY interesting.

 

[heatlesssun]

Disabling the other GPU's I don't find a suitable solution. Mainly beacuse, chances are that I'll notice these issues more so on the demanding games that push lower fps numbers, and those games are where I would want the power of multi-gpu.

But you're ALREADY in that situation and who is to say that you wouldn't find multi-GPU beneficial in some or even most those situations, like TONS of other people. Until you actually try it not even you know. And that's the problem with your argument, you simply don't know.
If we all refused to try things because there MIGHT be problems damn life would be boring.

 

[RamonGTP]

I may be in that situation but I'm in that situation with a $400 investment instead of a $1500 one. It's a matter of getting what you pay for. I paid for a $400 card and I feel like I'm getting $400 worth of performance out of it. If I go with a Tri SLI 480 setup and find myself needing to disable two GPU's to address issues of input lag/stutter in certain games than I'm getting $500 of performance for a $1500 investment. I find that unacceptable even if I could benefit from it the majority of the time. While I may not know whether or not I'll be affected by these problems, I do know the potential for these issues exist. That's enough for me to keep the $1100 difference in my bank account.

 

[heatlesssun]

I may be in that situation but I'm in that situation with a $400 investment instead of a $1500 one. It's a matter of getting what you pay for. I paid for a $400 card and I feel like I'm getting $400 worth of performance out of it. If I go with a Tri SLI 480 setup and find myself needing to disable two GPU's to address issues of input lag/stutter in certain games than I'm getting $500 of performance for a $1500 investment. I find that unacceptable even if I could benefit from it the majority of the time. While I may not know whether or not I'll be affected by these problems, I do know the potential for these issues exist. That's enough for me to keep the $1100 difference in my bank account.

If this is your belief then its your belief. But I think you have to understand that on a forum like this that attitude is probably not the norm. With that criteria I simply don't see how you could justify spending money on ANY technology. I've never owned anything that didn't have some issues, I imagine neither have you.

But if you're going to poo poo something I think it's fair to let people know your stance. If someone came to you looking for advice on multi-GPU I would imagine the first thing you'd mention is microstuttering. I think that it would only be fair to mention just how situationaly dependent that issue is and that the benefits of multi-GPU are well and exstively documented by many thousands of people over a number of years now.

Sure I'm a fan of multi-GPU technology because it allows me to do things that I simply can't do with a single card. By your standards, lets be honest, its a broken technology because yeah it'll have some problems from time to time and none of the benefits matter. I simply don't know how else to say it.

But that's how you see it, I'm not trying to change your mind and with your criteria it would be impossible anyway.

 

[RamonGTP]

Actually no, I would give people seeking advise an unbiased opinion on it. I would mention the pros and the cons. I wouldn't ignore the pros like you do the cons. I'm going to give people advise that would let them decide for themselves if the benefits outweigh the costs. For me they don't, for you they do, that's the bottom line.

I can, with 100% certainty say that advise I would give will have both sides of the story. Can you say the same? If this thread is any indication, the answer is quite clearly, NO.

 

[bizzmeister]

Let's do this. You and shansoft, one on one in a CS Tournament, bizzmeister with dual 480s, shansoft with one 480, and the winner gets the final word on microstuttering, at least in CS.

Of course on might be such a much better player than the other, and I'm not saying it's either on of you, but I find the idea intriguing. Having two people that say opposite things about microstuttering going head to head. Heck having teams on different sides of the issue. Could be VERY interesting.

I am sooooo down for this, hahahah. Someone set it up!

 

[heatlesssun]

I wouldn't ignore the pros like you do the cons. .

This is simply wrong. How many times have I said that I've seen microstuttering? What I have said like MANY others is that microstuttering is practically IMPOSSIBLE to reproduce between games, hardware, and people. That's a fact. Just look at bizzmeister and shansoft. Two competitive gamers that say EXACTLY opposite things about the SAME game. I would also say that multi-GPU doesn't work in all games and I've said this PLENTY of times. That's a fact.

However in games where it works and that tends to be the vast majority in my experience, the results can be like nothing you've EVER SEEN when combined with multiple monitors and 3D. Once again how many people have said the same thing? How many reputable review site like this one have said the VERY SAME THING?

Yes it costs money. High-end PC gaming has NEVER been cheap.

Really, I've said nothing that you don't hear everywhere. Your view, NO hardware enthusiast site would claim. So now they are all wrong and you're right? Come on now.

 

[RamonGTP]

For $1500, i'm not going to take the chance that my experience may be more like shansoft's. When you're spending your own money, the word of a website matters a lot less. I'd be more than happy to run Tri-SLI 480's and disable two when necessary if I didn't have to pay for them myself.

Since you insist on being thick headed and continue putting words in my mouth that I never said in a desperate attempt to solidify your position, I'll end this post by asking you to kindly point out where I ever made the claim that ANY hardware enthusiast site was wrong, much less ALL of them like you pointed out in your last sentence. If you cannot produce this evidence then do yourself favor and stop running off at the mouth and making this about something it isn't. Because All you're doing now is making yourself look like a crazed lunatic fringe multi gpu nvidia fanboy. This discussion would be more civilized if you read what people are actually saying and not whats in your own little reality. This is not the first time, nor am I the first one to call you out on this in this thread alone.

 

[heatlesssun]

I am not trying to put words into your mouth.

If you cannot produce this evidence then do yourself favor and stop running off at the mouth and making this about something it isn't. Because All you're doing now is making yourself look like a crazed lunatic fringe multi gpu nvidia fanboy. This discussion would be more civilized if you read what people are actually saying and not whats in your own little reality. This is not the first time, nor am I the first one to call you out on this in this thread alone.

Please tell me how what I said below makes me sound like ”a crazed lunatic fringe multi gpu nvidia fanboy”? Your words not mine:

This is simply wrong. How many times have I said that I've seen microstuttering? What I have said like MANY others is that microstuttering is practically IMPOSSIBLE to reproduce between games, hardware, and people. That's a fact. Just look at bizzmeister and shansoft. Two competitive gamers that say EXACTLY opposite things about the SAME game. I would also say that multi-GPU doesn't work in all games and I've said this PLENTY of times. That's a fact.

However in games where it works and that tends to be the vast majority in my experience, the results can be like nothing you've EVER SEEN when combined with multiple monitors and 3D.

I was simply saying that my view of multi-GPU technology is COMPLETELY consistent with mainstream hardware sites. There's nothing crazed or fanboy about it and I didn't even mention a specific company, I said "multi-GPU" because the point applies to both nVidia AND AMD. Your view however IS NOT consistent with mainstream hardware sites. No site that I know of is recommending NOT to use multi-GPU technology because of microstuttering or other compatibility issues. Yes issues exist, just no one is saying to avoid multi-GPU because of them because most people just don't have many problems.

Your level of service is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve. All GPUs in both multi and single configurations are going to have issues from time to time. If most people had your view there really wouldn't even be a need for hardware sites covering multi-GPU technology anyway. They'd be wasting there time with folks like you that would never buy the technology because it will NEVER reach the level of service you say you want.

BTW if you ask Kyle and other [H] staff I think they'll tell you that people just don't hand them free stuff all the time. They pay for a lot of this stuff out of their own pockets. I do as well as do thousands of others. We actually enjoy playing games and making them look beautiful and are willing to pay for that pleasure. This wouldn't be much fun if I didn't use a technology because it's not perfect when in SO many cases it delivers a visual experience that apparently isn't worth it to you. Don't know why you hang out in one of the most extreme PC hardware sites around in the video card section of ALL places that being the case.

 

[Dan_D]

I pay for most of my personal computer equipment myself. With that said I've almost always had multi-GPU configurations since the GeForce 6 series came out. The bulk of the issues people complain about are only evident to me a fraction of the time. I've rarely had SLI compatibility issues. Certainly nothing that forced me to disable one or more cards to run a game without issue. I don't think I've had anything major happen in that vein since the GeForce 6 or 7 series. Every once in awhile I've had to manually set the rendering mode for a new game that came out prior to an NVIDIA driver release. I normally have only had to wait a couple days to a week for a driver that had official support in the form of an SLI profile for that game. As for microstutter, a few dual GPU cards gave me those issues and generally I only noticed the issue where the game didn't run that great anyway because the hardware wasn't up to the task. In S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky for example I only had the problem when the frame rate would drop really low. And actually that went away when I went from dual GeForce GTX 280's to 3-Way SLI by adding a third card. Crysis during the 8800GTX days. Nuff said I think.

In any case I think that while flawed, the technology isn't as flawed as many people who obviously have limited experience with it tend to believe. While some people genuinely have issues with SLI and Crossfire which can not be easily solved, I think those people are in the minority. SLI and Crossfire are totally worth while technologies if you have deep enough pockets and want to push the boundaries of single monitor high resolution gaming and an absolute must for multi-monitor gaming. Especially past typical resolutions of 1680x1050 per monitor.

 

[Kardonxt]

If you are an UBER TEH 1773 HAXOR Pro GAMZOR so 1337 that the tiniest stutter can ruin your whole day then by all means play on a CRT and a single GTX480

But personally I don't mind getting killed a few extra times for the sake of 3x26" eyefinity on a 5970. I think 90% of gamers would feel the same way after experiencing the awesomeness that is multi monitor gaming lol. (personally i haven't noticed microstutter since my 6800s and a8nsli deluxe on launch drivers. But if other people say they can then how can I to argue without seeing with their eyes.)

On the other hand if pwning newbs was my job and not my hobby then I may feel differently.

 

[p3sty]

I agree with Dan, I competed for a while and although my gear wasn't top of the line it wasn't bottom end either. Microstutter with multi gpu really only happend with me in really intense up close fighting like in Cod4 turning the corner or in a doorway with plp there it was noticable and it bothered me alot.BC2 I run a single 5850 at medium settings without a hitch.Source games never gave me problems running single or multi gpu's.

 

[RamonGTP]

So you cannot produce that evidence eh? That's what I thought.

My level of service is certainly NOT impossible to achieve, are you a hardware engineer and physicist now? Are you saying that the technology does not and will not ever exist that would make things like lag ant stutter on multi-gpu equivalent to that of a single? Because that's the level of service i'm asking for, not perfection and here you are saying it's impossible. Tell me why that's impossible? No more BS and fast talking, I want to know specifically why it's impossible for that to happen. Lets hear it brains?

Being a hardware enthusiast does not obligate me to spend money on things I deem are not worth it. I said earlier you seem reasonable intelligent, I'm questioning that at this point, in fact I completely take it back. I've already told you what needs to happen for it to be a viable solution for me. You keep telling me the benefits like I don't know them. I know them, trust me. But for ME to invest my money into it, the issues that remain need to be resolved first. Why must I repeat this so often and why is that so difficult for you to understand?

I'm not even going to bother responding to your other "points" because you simply won't get it. you haven't in over 100 posts and you won't now, and that's what makes you a crazed lunatic fringe nvidia fanboy. Go ahead and take nvidia out of it if it makes you feel better, i'm just trying to be as accurate as possible. Now if you can kindly answer my question above. If you can't, then clearly you are unwilling or unable to think outside of your own little box and this conversation can end here. I'm not going to go into a day 2 of back and forth because you can't grasp simple concepts that don't agree with your own distorted view of the world.

Now, just in case you forgot, i'll end by asking the question again. Why, specifically, is it impossible for lag and stutter to be on par with single GPU's? What physical limitation are we dealing with that will make a seemingly simple request merely a fantasy?

 

[Dan_D]

If you are an UBER TEH 1773 HAXOR Pro GAMZOR so 1337 that the tiniest stutter can ruin your whole day then by all means play on a CRT and a single GTX480

But personally I don't mind getting killed a few extra times for the sake of 3x26" eyefinity on a 5970. I think 90% of gamers would feel the same way after experiencing the awesomeness that is multi monitor gaming lol. (personally i haven't noticed microstutter since my 6800s and a8nsli deluxe on launch drivers. But if other people say they can then how can I to argue without seeing with their eyes.)

On the other hand if pwning newbs was my job and not my hobby then I may feel differently.

Yeah I finally decided to bite the bullet and purchase a couple extra Dell 3007WFP-HC's for Eyefinity goodness. Of course I only have two right now. I'll order the third and final one as soon as all my bills are paid for the month. I'll probably have to go with a couple GeForce GTX 480's though. I don't think the single 5970 is up to the task.

 

[Mr. K6]

Yeah I finally decided to bite the bullet and purchase a couple extra Dell 3007WFP-HC's for Eyefinity goodness. Of course I only have two right now. I'll order the third and final one as soon as all my bills are paid for the month. I'll probably have to go with a couple GeForce GTX 480's though. I don't think the single 5970 is up to the task.

It'd be great if you could post your thoughts when you get it up and running. I haven't gone multi-monitor simply because giving up my 30" monitor would degrade my gaming experience much more than having peripheral vision would add to it. However, if and when I do, 3x30" is definitely the way I'm doing it. I don't think I would go with dual 480's, but hopefully the 6000 series can deliver.

 

[Dan_D]

I'm not actually using Eyefinity because of the bezel in the middle issue. Once I get my third monitor I'll actually be able to enjoy it. Still I've played with the settings in some games to get an idea of what to expect.

I've tried Eyefinity with two monitors and it almost works in Dead Space. I was hoping I could play RTS games this way, but sadly, the FOV I get is screwed up and its of no help. It just looks terrible. Unless the game supports adjusting the FOV properly to compensate for the wider view, you are better off leaving the game running on a single 30" LCD. Right now what I am looking at is nearly as wide as some 20" (4:3) 3x1 Eyefinity setups. From what I can tell so far, many games, despite supporting the resolution simply don't look good as they get stretched out due to no FOV adjustments. As a result it would be worse on 3x1 monitors instead of 2x1.

Games I've tried thus far:

Street Fighter IV -Looked terrible
Transformers War for Cybertron -Worked well
Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 -FOV isn't quite right
Dead Space -Looks fantastic, and is almost playable despite the bezel being in the middle. So far this is the most Eyefinity friendly game I've seen so far.
Alien Swarm -Totally unsupported. It doesn't even let me set resolutions above 2560x1600.
Command & Conquer 3 -Totally unsupported. It doesn't even let me set resolutions above 2560x1600.
Star Wars Empire at War -While it lets me use the settings, the FOV is screwed up and everything looks terrible. Everything is stretched out. Literally the aspect ratio looks like 32:10 and its not playable like that.

Performance is another factor. Great performance in Dead Space, CDMW2 and in Street Fighter. No so much in Transformers War for Cybertron. The only other game I've got loaded right now is Aliens vs. Predator. Well that and the games I mentioned that do not work properly with Eyefinity.

 

[heatlesssun]

Really, I've said nothing that you don't hear everywhere. Your view, NO hardware enthusiast site would claim. So now they are all wrong and you're right? Come on now.

I'll end this post by asking you to kindly point out where I ever made the claim that ANY hardware enthusiast site was wrong, much less ALL of them like you pointed out in your last sentence.

So you cannot produce that evidence eh? That's what I thought.

First of all I was asking a fair question, not saying anything about you. You constantly disagree with me and yet my thoughts pretty much mirror what the mainstream sites say. So if my views are consistent with them, why do you constantly challenge what I'm saying? I've not said a thing that you haven't heard a thousand different places.

Now, just in case you forgot, I'll end by asking the question again. Why, specifically, is it impossible for lag and stutter to be on par with single GPU's? What physical limitation are we dealing with that will make a seemingly simple request merely a fantasy?

Yes, what you want will NEVER happen.

As this WHOLE thread is living proof, these things are NOT REPRODUCIBLE between games, hardware and people. It's almost ENTIRELY subjective. How do you even VALIDATE that these problems are fixed? I could come to you and say "All these issues are gone" and then you could come back to me and say "No they aren't" and then WHO IS RIGHT? No I don't see how its possible to alleviate these issues against all games, hardware and people. And neither do you, its simply FAR too subjective.

Furthermore these issues are FAR from the only things that can go wrong with multi-GPU. Not every game will work all the time. There's always issues here and there with something. Hell that's the case with even single-GPU.

You were the one calling me a "crazed nVidia fanboy" or some such nonsense and here I am telling you once again, like everyone else that has this stuff that its ALWAYS going to have some problems and now you're arguing with me on that. You're simply being contrary at this point.

 

[heatlesssun]

It'd be great if you could post your thoughts when you get it up and running. I haven't gone multi-monitor simply because giving up my 30" monitor would degrade my gaming experience much more than having peripheral vision would add to it. However, if and when I do, 3x30" is definitely the way I'm doing it. I don't think I would go with dual 480's, but hopefully the 6000 series can deliver.

You're not probably going to want nothing less than 3x 480 SLI to drive this. 3D 1080P is rougly pushing the same number of pixels as 3 30" monitors and 3D at 1080P is murder on performance. If you want to run games at native resolutions, newer ones in particular, I'd say that it's not quite there yet. I have to drop down to 4800x900 in Metro 2033 and Just Cause 2 in 3D to make them run smoothly. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Matrices]

3x30" is not something I would want to run without 3 GTX 480s. No way it will run well at high settings on just 2 cards. The fill rate is just too fucking gigantic.

 

[Dan_D]

3x30" is not something I would want to run without 3 GTX 480s. No way it will run well at high settings on just 2 cards. The fill rate is just too fucking gigantic.

I'll probably start with two. If I have to add a third or even a fourth, I will. (If it proves to actually provide more performance.) In the past scaling with 4 NVIDIA GPUs hasn't been worth a shit.

 

[Matrices]

Yeah, four is probably useless. But I know Maximum PC just put together its Dream Machine 2010 build and they used 3 GTX 480s and 3 30" monitors.

 

[RamonGTP]

First of all I was asking a fair question, not saying anything about you. You constantly disagree with me and yet my thoughts pretty much mirror what the mainstream sites say. So if my views are consistent with them, why do you constantly challenge what I'm saying? I've not said a thing that you haven't heard a thousand different places.



Yes, what you want will NEVER happen.

As this WHOLE thread is living proof, these things are NOT REPRODUCIBLE between games, hardware and people. It's almost ENTIRELY subjective. How do you even VALIDATE that these problems are fixed? I could come to you and say "All these issues are gone" and then you could come back to me and say "No they aren't" and then WHO IS RIGHT? No I don't see how its possible to alleviate these issues against all games, hardware and people. And neither do you, its simply FAR too subjective.

Furthermore these issues are FAR from the only things that can go wrong with multi-GPU. Not every game will work all the time. There's always issues here and there with something. Hell that's the case with even single-GPU.

You were the one calling me a "crazed nVidia fanboy" or some such nonsense and here I am telling you once again, like everyone else that has this stuff that its ALWAYS going to have some problems and now you're arguing with me on that. You're simply being contrary at this point.

You failed to answer the question WHY, just like you failed to answer every direct question i've posed to you. You're not listening again. When you can have a conversation with a clear head, i'll listen, until then, you'll just continue to repeat yourself and misunderstand.

 

[heatlesssun]

You failed to answer the question WHY, just like you failed to answer every direct question i've posed to you. You're not listening again. When you can have a conversation with a clear head, i'll listen, until then, you'll just continue to repeat yourself and misunderstand.

I answered EVERY question you asked, or at least attempted to. I'll say it again. I never said you disagreed with any hardware site but you keep disagreeing with me and I simply echo what those sites pretty much say. If I'm saying what they are saying and you keep disagreeing with
me then don't see that you CAN'T be agreeing with them. I'm saying the SAME THINGS.

EVERYTHING I have said here has been from my 5 years of experience with SLI. EVERYTHING I have said is consistent with what mainstream hardware sites say. You don't even have the stuff and yet you express points with NO EXPERIENCE. I'm dealing with you in GOOD FAITH. You are simply being contrary once again.

 

[Mr. K6]

You're not probably going to want nothing less than 3x 480 SLI to drive this. 3D 1080P is rougly pushing the same number of pixels as 3 30" monitors and 3D at 1080P is murder on performance. If you want to run games at native resolutions, newer ones in particular, I'd say that it's not quite there yet. I have to drop down to 4800x900 in Metro 2033 and Just Cause 2 in 3D to make them run smoothly. Just my 2 cents.

3x30" is not something I would want to run without 3 GTX 480s. No way it will run well at high settings on just 2 cards. The fill rate is just too fucking gigantic.

I should have been clearer. I wouldn't put two or three GTX 480's in my setup because they wouldn't provide the experience I want. If AMD delivers with the 6000 series and produces a card that can drive such a setup while maintaining their current awesome power usage/cooling/noise profiles, I'll more seriously consider going ahead with it.

 

[heatlesssun]

I should have been clearer. I wouldn't put two or three GTX 480's in my setup because they wouldn't provide the experience I want. If AMD delivers with the 6000 series and produces a card that can drive such a setup while maintaining their current awesome power usage/cooling/noise profiles, I'll more seriously consider going ahead with it.

Cool. If the 6000s can do that I would be impressed. It would have to be a HUGE jump even over 480 SLI to get there.

 

[Dan_D]

I should have been clearer. I wouldn't put two or three GTX 480's in my setup because they wouldn't provide the experience I want. If AMD delivers with the 6000 series and produces a card that can drive such a setup while maintaining their current awesome power usage/cooling/noise profiles, I'll more seriously consider going ahead with it.

OK, I see your ninja edit removes the term failure. Now I have to ask, just how would it be that the GeForce GTX 480's wouldn't give you the experience you want? Have you used them? Are you certain of this?

 

[Mr. K6]

OK, I see your ninja edit removes the term failure. Now I have to ask, just how would it be that the GeForce GTX 480's wouldn't give you the experience you want? Have you used them? Are you certain of this?

Yeah, that was too harsh. Right now I have an elegant little aluminum box on my desk that is silent and provides great graphics. I can also have people over to watch movies on my 30" and the computer perfectly doubles as an HTPC. I do not want to ruin these aesthetics of my setup. Gone are my days of having some huge ass server case with a ton of fans thrown into it so I can gain another 100MHz of clock speed. Going with even one GTX 480 would defeat this purpose, nevermind two or three. I don't want to have to yell over the fans "ISN'T THIS AWESOME!?" to my friend while I'm showing him BF:BC2, and I like to hear myself think when games are quiet or during a cut scene. And no, water cooling is still too loud. Anyway, that's why I said, when a card comes out that does what I want, I'll more seriously consider it.

 

[Dan_D]

Yeah, that was too harsh. Right now I have an elegant little aluminum box on my desk that is silent and provides great graphics. I can also have people over to watch movies on my 30" and the computer perfectly doubles as an HTPC. I do not want to ruin these aesthetics of my setup. Gone are my days of having some huge ass server case with a ton of fans thrown into it so I can gain another 100MHz of clock speed. Going with even one GTX 480 would defeat this purpose, nevermind two or three. I don't want to have to yell over the fans "ISN'T THIS AWESOME!?" to my friend while I'm showing him BF:BC2, and I like to hear myself think when games are quiet or during a cut scene. And no, water cooling is still too loud. Anyway, that's why I said, when a card comes out that does what I want, I'll more seriously consider it.

OK, that makes sense.

 

[heatlesssun]

And no, water cooling is still too loud. Anyway, that's why I said, when a card comes out that does what I want, I'll more seriously consider it.

Huh? LOUD water cooling? Never heard anyone say that before. And while three 480s won't meet your aesthetic requirments its nothing like you're saying. Playing BC2 in 3D doesn't cause ANYWHERE NEAR the noise levels you're describing. Really the only time my rig makes a lot of noise is running stuff like Furmark or Heaven. I don't have a dead silent environment, simply not possible will all of my equipment in a bedroom office.

But asthetics aside, the performance here really is just fantastic, Batman AA at maximum settings no AA at almost 60 FPS a second in 3D Surround at 5760x1080. Stunning is a weak word to describe it. Batman AA would actually be a game that would probably work with 3x 30 at maximum settings native resolution no AA if the 3D performance equates to 2D. Would be intresting to see that.

 

[RamonGTP]

I answered EVERY question you asked, or at least attempted to.

Oh really now?

Let's see, I asked you what physical limitation exists that would make my requirments such an imposible task to acomplish and your reply was...

"yes, what you want will NEVER happen"

I asked you to show me where I said certain things you accused me of saying, and you produced absolutly nothing.



I'm going to bookmark this thread and when a multi-gpu solution becomes available that does adequatly address potential issues of micro-stuttering and input lag, not only will I buy it, I'll also i'll issue you a friendly reminder that you claimed such technological advances were impossible.

 

[Dan_D]

Huh? LOUD water cooling? Never heard anyone say that before.

Yes, water cooling can be loud. There are still fans involved. The higher performing the setup, the more noise it generates. The same as it does with air coolers. All things being equal its capable of better cooling while making less noise, but still it can get noisy. Mine isn't too bad, but if I crank the fan speeds all the way up, it gets loud as hell.

And while three 480s won't meet your aesthetic requirements its nothing like you're saying. Playing BC2 in 3D doesn't cause ANYWHERE NEAR the noise levels you're describing. Really the only time my rig makes a lot of noise is running stuff like Furmark or Heaven. I don't have a dead silent environment, simply not possible will all of my equipment in a bedroom office.

But asthetics aside, the performance here really is just fantastic, Batman AA at maximum settings no AA at almost 60 FPS a second in 3D Surround at 5760x1080. Stunning is a weak word to describe it. Batman AA would actually be a game that would probably work with 3x 30 at maximum settings native resolution no AA if the 3D performance equates to 2D. Would be intresting to see that.

Well what he means is that the noise generated by even a single GeForce GTX 480 is unacceptable to him. He said nothing about performance. There are other factors he simply places ahead of performance in this case. While many enthusiasts do not care as much about factors aside from performance, there are still many people do.

 

[rtd]

If you are an UBER TEH 1773 HAXOR Pro GAMZOR so 1337 that the tiniest stutter can ruin your whole day then by all means play on a CRT and a single GTX480

But personally I don't mind getting killed a few extra times for the sake of 3x26" eyefinity on a 5970. I think 90% of gamers would feel the same way after experiencing the awesomeness that is multi monitor gaming lol. (personally i haven't noticed microstutter since my 6800s and a8nsli deluxe on launch drivers. But if other people say they can then how can I to argue without seeing with their eyes.)

On the other hand if pwning newbs was my job and not my hobby then I may feel differehttp://hardforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1035982437ntly.

Yea I love turning my head to have total FoV to react to anybody coming in to view on the sides.I could see how that awesomeness benefits simple functionality.

Those tiniest moments of input lag, do not happen all the time. The few times I've played on SLI it is not really noticeable, until something happens and I notice that delay.

The problem with the technology as stated earlier are the amount of frames being bunched up(I'm not even sure I like this to begin with) are not consistent so if they bunch up a lot and somebody goes to make a standard shot like somebody rocket jumping to go through a doorway,so you move your reticule over to the doorway to fire as he flies through your cross hair. You miss and then watch your demo and see that your shot was actually delayed and you had barely missed. Despite knowing while you were playing you should have hit that easy shot. You can say the same thing about a circle jump in quake if when you go to jump you're not actually where you appear to be, you'll miss the jump. This is because the information you got the first time was slightly more delayed than the rest.

Basically it's like a brief moment of packet loss. That catches up rapidly.

@ heatless if they changed the way this worked it could eliminate the inconsistencies and reduce input lag.I just don't think it's a big enough issue for them to fix. It's a problem that is only noticeable under certain conditions and the player has to be very attuned to the game and that specific situation to know otherwise.Or they can demo themselves over and over and watch and they'll notice the difference from shot 1 the first time they play it back and shot 1 the second time they play it back, they might have to go as far as a few fights in but, you'll definitely be able to compare it and notice it. You don't have to be a pro gamer, just have to have a good eye for little changes. But yea if I go back to find the graph of how it works,in this thread that would give you a somewhat technical explanation on why it happens and how it can be prevented.