“Microsoft Should Pay Compensation For User Upgrade Woes”

Pieter3dnow said:
The idea is that when you upgrade Microsoft makes sure you can without any problem , why else would you have such a function and this is rather unsettling for many where you "hope" everything is all right but as soon as it is done it is not.

Whatever people in here tend to think of as a problem (bloatware or god know what) then Microsoft should not install their upgrades on a system which requires attention from a specialist. But you guessed it Microsoft really does not care about this one way or another.

If your operating system functions around an automatic upgrade feature it should work for you and not against you. Hence the word upgrade , not holy hand grenade ...
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This has been the problem with IBM PC clones since the first Compaq loaded DOS. Too many vendors with so many different hardware and software configurations to be controlled by the single OS vendor. There has never been an upgrade from any PC operating system that worked flawlessly 100%, without needing a "specialist" to fix. Even Apple with their closed ecosystem (banning upgrades on older computers that are more than capable of running the upgrade) isn't 100% flawless with their upgrades.
 
McDork said:
I didn't notice any problems until the AU update. I can't get one of my older games to open (Call of Duty 2). I noticed an earlier post referring a problem with directx 9, that could have something to do with it. And I get some kind of memory problem notification on shutdown (may be a conflict with some of my hw or software). The memory checks out fine. I hope things will get ironed out with time. Overall though I like the system.
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Try reinstalling Direct X 9 and see if that helps please.
 
Damn right they should. I wasted 12 hours with my laptop and twice that with customers computers.
 
SamuraiInBlack said:
Dual booted Win10. Installed fine. Runs fine.

Skyrim refuses to work under it. Even on a fresh vanilla install. I've tried just about every fix, workaround, compatability mode, and voodoo ritual you can name. Still crashes to desktop at startup.

Runs perfectly under win7.
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I recall this being an issue with the nVidia drivers and the new WDDM in the anniversary update. Some software vendors seem to have hard coded some numbers they shouldn't have. I don't recall the specifics but a general solution was to use the nVidia drivers from a few months ago, I don't know the specific version.
 
jardows said:
This has been the problem with IBM PC clones since the first Compaq loaded DOS. Too many vendors with so many different hardware and software configurations to be controlled by the single OS vendor. There has never been an upgrade from any PC operating system that worked flawlessly 100%, without needing a "specialist" to fix. Even Apple with their closed ecosystem (banning upgrades on older computers that are more than capable of running the upgrade) isn't 100% flawless with their upgrades.
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Were talking about software on systems which worked before with "Windows" we are not talking about exotic hardware. Amiga used to be a fine computer :) really , never had any problems with any workbench version across Amiga 500 to 2000 with custom hardware.
 
i have a better idea all users in the UK will require a license to operate a windows computer.

This license will requires you to take a A+,Network +, and a basic windows course.

Failure to do so will mean you will have to pay microsoft for support.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Were talking about software on systems which worked before with "Windows" we are not talking about exotic hardware. Amiga used to be a fine computer :) really , never had any problems with any workbench version across Amiga 500 to 2000 with custom hardware.
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If you are talking about 3rd party software, then the issue is no different than it ever has been with Windows, or Macintosh, or Linux, etc. Every new version of the operating system had the chance to break existing software. Nothing new. Unless the vendor guarantees compatibility and will pay for any support issues (this probably means you paid $$$$$ for the software to begin with) you likely will have programs that won't work, or need to be updated.

I used to support a software package for OS X. Every time Apple made a minor update to the system, our developers had to scramble, because the OS update broke our program. To complain about a Windows update doing the same, is just whining.
 
6 Systems, 0 issues. Was actually the most flawless upgrade I have done in some time. All my drivers worked for all my peripherals, that is a first. All my programs also worked without any issues.

sfsuphysics said:
Well shit there ya go for democracy! A bunch of tech savvy people have no problem with Windows 10, hence a frivolous idea!
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While I am tech savvy, I literally had to do nothing but start the upgrade process. After it was completed, everything worked just like it did prior. System actually boots and runs faster. Some games even seem to play better than they did on Win7.

But the real reason its a frivolous idea is they are asking Microsoft to pay for an "upgrade" that was provided for "free" to the consumer. The consumer could have stayed with an older version. Sure they would be continually bugged about the upgrade, but they did not have to do it.
 
I had one issue - with a computer 8+ years old. CPU wasn't supported. Ahh well.

Other than that - works fine :p
 
Out of the 8 so far: 1 problem with upgrade, 1 problem with AU update so far.....the others haven't downloaded it yet.
 
I have never had a problem upgrading Windows for my own PCs. I do it just to see what goes on in an upgrade.

Other people's computers though, even those I have specifically picked out the parts and built for them, that is a completely different story. My hats off to those that do this for a living.
 
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Wherever you decide you don't want to put up with this shit any more, Linux will be waiting.
 
DukenukemX said:
As much as people want to treat this as a joke, there really should be some compensation to those who got the upgrade. Yes it's free, but if you didn't want it...
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...then you had 30 days to roll it back (later 10 days, but still).
 
thesmokingman said:
Anniversary update breaks dx9 iirc. If you reinstall don't run the ann update?
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This was on a fresh bare install, no other options, no updates done as far as I could tell. Am I stuck with it or am I doing something wrong?

evilsofa said:
Win10 AU updated WDDM to 2.1. If your video card driver is also a WDDM 2.1 driver, Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas and Skyrim won't launch. Nvidia updated their drivers to WDDM 2.1 starting with 372.xx, has looked into it and found it to be not their problem. It affects AMD's WDDM 2.1 drivers as well. If you have Nvidia drivers on Win10 AU, rolling back to before 369.xx or earlier should fix it; I don't know which version of AMD drivers started using WDDM 2.1. See this thread.
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I'm going to assume it is and I will try the 369.xx drivers.
 
The only REAL problems I have seen with Windows 10 upgrades are a) grossly outdated machines or b) machines that were already fucked up in the first place (extremely outdated on updates, malware, etc.).

We've upgraded dozens upon dozens of machines at this point and only a handful have had any real issues. I think there were only 1 or 2 that ultimately just didn't work with 10, and the rollback to 7 worked fine on those.

For people on [H] claiming to have issues with every single 10 upgrade they've done...I'd really have to start questioning their IT ability.
 
Win 10 just did a big update for me, fine, but however when it finished the interface looked a bit different, again fine, however the pop up that came that said "We uninstalled this app - Master of Orion Terran Khanate due to it being incompatible" was a big kick in the nuts... ok not big since it's been a while since I played it, but the fact the update unstalled my own programs automatically does definitely smell of shadiness. Now is there some super secret option somewhere that makes Windows 10 not do this, perhaps but because all of this crap is turned on my default is where a lot of people are having issues. Now does that mean I think MS should have to pay others? I can't say for sure, but enough people had Win10 installed on their system seemingly without their knowledge that it does make me think this goes a bit deeper than user error.
 
Simple fact is that Windows 10 is a downgrade from 7. Features have been removed, advertising and data mining have been implimented, the terms of service have changed, and the end user gains next to nothing.

They really can't be surprised that people are upset.

sfsuphysics said:
Win 10 just did a big update for me, fine, but however when it finished the interface looked a bit different, again fine, however the pop up that came that said "We uninstalled this app - Master of Orion Terran Khanate due to it being incompatible" was a big kick in the nuts...
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Exactly, it's not 'fine.' The new update model is 'just reinstall the OS.' Anyone who talks about 8 or 10 being more stable is an idiot.

They're just going to keep breaking things with 'updates' as they slowly try to phase out the traditional desktop.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Simple fact is that Windows 10 is a downgrade from 7. Features have been removed, advertising and data mining have been implimented, the terms of service have changed, and the end user gains next to nothing.

They really can't be surprised that people are upset.



Exactly, it's not 'fine.' The new update model is 'just reinstall the OS.' Anyone who talks about 8 or 10 being more stable is an idiot.

They're just going to keep breaking things with 'updates' as they slowly try to phase out the traditional desktop.
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I agree. Their update model is the main thing pissing me off right now...rollups with no control. Keep an eye out...it's due for 7 and 8 as well.
 
evilsofa said:
Are you going to upgrade to WinXP or Linux?
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heh. I COULD......I've still got plenty of XP in the basement. When I stop gaming, I will probably move to Linux.

My day-to-day rig at home is still Vista :jimlad::woot:. The suckers been stable for years.....it's just starting to feel sloww.
 
Makaveli@BETA said:
i have a better idea all users in the UK will require a license to operate a windows computer.

This license will requires you to take a A+,Network +, and a basic windows course.

Failure to do so will mean you will have to pay microsoft for support.
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In all seriousness basic computing, programming and something similar to A+ and Net+ should be part of mandatory primary education. That would be so much more valuable than quite a bit of what students already have to learn.
 
evilsofa said:
Are you going to upgrade to WinXP or Linux?
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That's a complete non-sequiter. Most of the people in these discussions are Windows fans and long term users who just want Microsoft to bring their products back up to where they were with 7. Are you saying that users shouldn't complain because there's no chance Microsoft will change its behavior?

I certainly am considering migrating my desktops to Linux if the situation hasn't been fixed by the time 7 reaches EoL, I really only need one Windows box for games. I already run Linux Mint on my laptop, kids room PC and HTPC.

At least the update system works (and works very fast) on Linux. Can't say that about the Windows 7 licenses I paid for...
 
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MavericK said:
...then you had 30 days to roll it back (later 10 days, but still).
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Oh, so it's OK to be forced if you can roll back huh? A statement so absurd I don't even think it deserves analogies.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
That's a complete non-sequiter. Most of the people in these discussions are Windows fans and long term users who just want Microsoft to bring their products back up to where they were with 7. Are you saying that users shouldn't complain because there's no chance Microsoft will change its behavior?

I certainly am considering migrating my desktops to Linux if the situation hasn't been fixed by the time 7 reaches EoL, I really only need one Windows box for games. I already run Linux Mint on my laptop, kids room PC and HTPC.

At least the update system works (and works very fast) on Linux. Can't say that about the Windows 7 licenses I paid for...
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Honestly that will never happen. Changes occurred for reasons, some that we might not all agree with, but for reasons that to a degree make sense. They are dumbing the OS down for the average person. No more controlling upgrades, it will force you to take upgrades when they are released. Very simplistic Settings to replace a more complex control panel. Now, some stuff should have been left there for the pro versions for IT admins. But honestly even that area is getting dumbed down. People don't want to hire IT people or hire many, so you end up with businesses that use some consultant then try to avoid using them as much as possible. I have been inside of businesses that have asked me to do something for them to prevent them from having to pay somebody since I am already there doing other work. Now, you might see some stuff come back or change to be a little more like windows of days past. But seeing every change made in the OS over past few years vanishing, not at all.

As for upgrades working on Linux. You might want to clarify your statement. Not all OSs that use the Linux kernel allow upgrades or did not for the longest time. And personally I have never had a Linux upgrade work. I had few BSD upgrades that worked. The Linux mentality had always been you don't upgrade Linux / unix. You copy /etc and blow out the entire system do a clean install with the new OS version and copy /etc back. That is not an upgrade process. I recently tried upgrading CentOS 6 up to 7. I spent many hours trying to fix everything it wanted me to before, then spent many hours fixing things it broke after words. So in total, about 15 hours of labor to upgrade the system. If that is what you call fast I would like to know how badly your windows upgrades have went.
 
Exavior said:
Honestly that will never happen. Changes occurred for reasons, some that we might not all agree with, but for reasons that to a degree make sense. They are dumbing the OS down...
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Oh, so I suppose we should just put up with it because 'reasons,' right?

As for upgrades working on Linux. You might want to clarify your statement. Not all OSs that use the Linux kernel allow upgrades or did not for the longest time. And personally I have never had a Linux upgrade work...
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The fuck are you on about? I said Windows Update is broken on 7. It has been for some time. Updates on my Linux Mint boxes are snappy. Why are updates broken on the Windows 7 machines that I paid for while free software works fine?

There's always a Windows 10 shill in these threads who tries to derail and deflect the conversation with weird unrelated wall-of-text posts. It's ridiculous.
 
BloodyIron said:
Sorry, were we talking about Windows 10 all of a sudden?
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Not sure, I have not had any issues with upgrades on Win10. I have had issues with upgrades on Linux. Both tend to have similar problems with things that break with upgrades, often they are third party software that is not designed well and breaks with small changes. However, I have had far less problems with Windows upgrades than with Linux upgrades in those cases.
 
Well, I provide support for both, and I see Windows 10 breaking way more than Linux. A tonne of people had issues with just the "Anniversary update".

NoOther said:
Not sure, I have not had any issues with upgrades on Win10. I have had issues with upgrades on Linux. Both tend to have similar problems with things that break with upgrades, often they are third party software that is not designed well and breaks with small changes. However, I have had far less problems with Windows upgrades than with Linux upgrades in those cases.
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BloodyIron said:
Well, I provide support for both, and I see Windows 10 breaking way more than Linux. A tonne of people had issues with just the "Anniversary update".
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Interesting, I have supported both for 20 years, and seen far more stuff break from Linux upgrades than Windows upgrades. But as I have mentioned before, mostly they break for similar reasons because of third party software. It also depends on what specifically is being supported. I rarely have issues with servers, mostly it is desktop installations that have issues.
 
I've been working with Windows since 3.11, so I have a similar lifespan with this :p

Yes, Linux has had a long history (way back) of not being sufficient and having issues. But, things change friend. Ubuntu is incredibly reliable, and I see way more upgrade woes with Windows 10 than Ubuntu. In fact I've had clients try Windows 10, then tell me to switch them to Ubuntu.

Anniversary edition? Yeah, that's just one of the issues with the Windows 10 ecosystem, it bricked a lot of systems.

NoOther said:
Interesting, I have supported both for 20 years, and seen far more stuff break from Linux upgrades than Windows upgrades. But as I have mentioned before, mostly they break for similar reasons because of third party software. It also depends on what specifically is being supported. I rarely have issues with servers, mostly it is desktop installations that have issues.
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Hosed my login passwords and wireless connection, fixed the password problem, still working on the wireless. Lovely update.
 
MajorDomo said:
Hosed my login passwords and wireless connection, fixed the password problem, still working on the wireless. Lovely update.
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Might be an unknown incompatibility. Have you tried using netsh to reset your various tcp and network contexts?
 
MajorDomo said:
Hosed my login passwords and wireless connection, fixed the password problem, still working on the wireless. Lovely update.
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Laptop? Seriously, that would be very odd if it were one of your custom built computers. (Unless you tweak like hell.)
 
Didn't have many issues at all with the initial release or build 1511. 1607 on the other hand has been far more problematic for. Having far more software compatibility issues as well as general upgrade problems. It's funny because the first system I installed it (1607) on was my gaming rig at the house and, to my surprise, I didn't have to spend an hour getting my raid setup working again post-update.
 
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