Microsoft finally reveals what data Windows 10 collects from your PC

[lironmiron]

It's probably not enough to just share telemetry data. What would really help Microsoft engineers to get to the root of all my non-existent crashes and really improve the product for my benefit would be if they included a clause in the EULA that allowed them to make a copy of my house keys when I'm not looking, and then go in my house whenever they want to use my computer and try to recreate any issues with complete control of the hardware. I mean, I have nothing to hide in my house. What could be more comforting than to hear noises in the middle of the night and see that a stranger from one of my dozens of software providers has broken into my house and is using my computer. That would really give me the peace of mind that any issues are surely getting fixed.

 

[M76]

Again, as I stated before in a prior post there are an infinite number of hardware and software combinations that Microsoft can't possibly test for. They are as numerous as the number of stars in the sky. One system running a Core i5, one running an i7, one running Skylake, one running Kaby Lake, one running Kaspersky, one running Avast, one running Avira, etc. I could go on and on but we'd be here all night going into all various different possibilities.

Still doesn't explain lack of off switch. I'm sure if they put it in an obscure enough place most average users wouldn't touch it. They'd still get more data than useful for any QA related work. Unless they're selling user data, there is absolutely no reason why they want data from all computers running windows and not just a representetive sample. There are plenty of shills out there like yourself who would happily volunteer their data even if there was an off switch. And there are plenty of idiots out there who don't know any better or don't care.

 

[trparky]

Smartphone doesn't have any personal files, no bank account info, no personal pictures, no nothing. Besides it's not even connected to the internet unless I specifically want to look up something.

Speak for yourself man! I have photos, documents, text messages, contacts, passwords in my password manager, online banking, etc. all on my smartphone. And yes, my smartphone is connected to the Internet all the time just like my desktop is. I treat my smartphone just like any other computer.

 

[chaos4u]

Interested in some specific anecdotes around the "less featured" remark.



They did do something about it. TPM. Secure Boot. Things you no doubt refuse to run or enable on your computing platform. You probably disable UAC on your machine too.

Unless your firmware and boot process is secured, your computer can be compromised.



I'm sure if they created a better filesystem for you, it would break compatibility with "all the programs that you use". Can't have your cake and eat it too.

way to many hp laptops, dell computers, acer laptops, and various other machines with the secure boot enabled yet fully encrypted by ransomware, infected with malware, search results hijacked away to misleading pages offering bogus services and worse downloading nefarious programs.

UAC failed to prevent these infections and tpm and secure boot were never designed for prevention of such infections. if your relying on that technology as your "secure" platform than your in for a rude awakening .



as far as filesystem goes no it wouldn't break any compatibility. the majority of programs dont care what fs they are on as long as they can access their data (meaning the os supports the file system) ntfs is just old and its way past time for a better faster file system for windows.

 

[M76]

Speak for yourself man! I have photos, documents, text messages, contacts, passwords in my password manager, online banking, etc. all on my smartphone. And yes, my smartphone is connected to the Internet all the time just like my desktop is. I treat my smartphone just like any other computer.

But you are also fine with letting ms collect your data from the desktop, so why do you care about your phone then?


I'm absolutely not fine with any corporation collecting my personal private data. But I can get away with not having any of that on my phone. But I can't get rid of personal stuff from my computer. Or I don't want to. Therefore google's data collection doesn't matter as much to me. That doesn't mean I like it any more. On the other hand I'm happy to share my gps data it makes real time traffic maps possible.

 

[trparky]

ntfs is just old and its way past time for a better faster file system for windows.

The NTFS of yesterday is not the NTFS of today. NTFS has been evolving over the last couple of years. And besides... I wouldn't trust a new file system, I'd rather have a tried-and-true file system that's been beaten on for the last decade.

 

[bman212121]

Wow, the "basic " level alone has an unreal amount of detail. It basically logs every hardware or software change you have ever made on your computer and reports it to MS. Terrifying.

I think a lot of people even here don't realize that a lot of that information already exists in the event viewer. If you take the time to sift through that you'll likely see an event generated for most of the things we are talking about. The only difference here is that someone at MS probably pointed out that all of that data is sitting on people's computers and not being put to use. So rather than letting all of those events roll off and go to waste, someone decided to upload them so they can analyze trends in the events. It's big data in action.

I do agree if you don't want to participate, there should be an off switch. Just about every other software has the check box for sending anonymous user data, so there's no reason that can't exist in the settings menu.

 

[trparky]

I'm absolutely not fine with any corporation collecting my personal private data. But I can get away with not having any of that on my phone. But I can't get rid of personal stuff from my computer. Or I don't want to. Therefore google's data collection doesn't matter as much to me. That doesn't mean I like it any more. On the other hand I'm happy to share my gps data it makes real time traffic maps possible.

Oh, you make it too easy for me to blow holes in everything you say.

Oh, but you're fine with Google tracking everything you do on the Internet with their tracking cookies and their Google Chrome. Hell, you probably have a Facebook account too. How cute. GPS data? And don't you think that Google is using that data and not only that but selling it to anyone who's got the money to buy it. Hell, let's throw in the idea that GPS data can be used to determine if a specific restaurant is more popular than others which that data could be sold to that popular restaurant causing them to raise their prices because well... the market will pay what the market will bear.

 

[jbltecnicspro]

Indeed. MS has lost that trust with consumers; it will take a long time, if ever, for them to get it back.

And yet Windows is still selling like hot-cakes, and most folks I know want Windows 10. I'm not arguing with you - my mind's just blown.

 

[DPI]

It's probably not enough to just share telemetry data. What would really help Microsoft engineers to get to the root of all my non-existent crashes and really improve the product for my benefit would be if they included a clause in the EULA that allowed them to make a copy of my house keys when I'm not looking, and then go in my house whenever they want to use my computer and try to recreate any issues with complete control of the hardware. I mean, I have nothing to hide in my house. What could be more comforting than to hear noises in the middle of the night and see that a stranger from one of my dozens of software providers has broken into my house and is using my computer. That would really give me the peace of mind that any issues are surely getting fixed.

LMFAO. "And besides... Google does it too exactly the same way!"

 

[chaos4u]

It shocks me how many people cary around so much confidential information on their phones .. i hope at least a majority of them have a secure wipe feature enabled in case of loss or theft.

does nothing for exploits though .

but it speaks volumes about these people and their expectations of why people should let Microsoft, Google, Verizon, Comcast and whoever else have free reign over their data .

 

[trparky]

LMFAO. "And besides... Google does it too exactly the same way!"

Once again you prove my point. Google is fine, Google is OK. Microsoft = EVIL!

 

[jbltecnicspro]

Once again you prove my point. Google is fine, Google is OK. Microsoft = EVIL!

The point is that with Google (unless you're on a Chrome book), you can decide to not send them anything. Don't like their terms? Don't have a gmail account. Afraid of browsing the web with their browser? Fuck off, Chrome. But with Windows 10? I guess the only option is to get Linux or a Mac. Most lay people can opt out of Google services if they want to. Try telling someone with basic computer skills to build their own Linux box or spend more on a Mac.

 

[heatlesssun]

The point is that with Google (unless you're on a Chrome book), you can decide to not send them anything. Don't like their terms? Don't have a gmail account. Afraid of browsing the web with their browser? Fuck off, Chrome. But with Windows 10? I guess the only option is to get Linux or a Mac. Most lay people can opt out of Google services if they want to. Try telling someone with basic computer skills to build their own Linux box or spend more on a Mac.

Or you know, you one of many utilities and step-by-step guides to turn it off if you find it that problematic. I'm not saying it's perfect for those that concerned about it, but there apps out that that literally turn it into a single button process.

 

[trparky]

But if you have a typical Android phone you're so deep into Google Country that it's not even funny. Most Android phones won't even let you set it up or download apps unless you have a Google Account. And if you have a Google Account congratulations... you're being spied on!

 

[MavericK]

Looks like I am late for the daily Windows 10 hate circle-jerk...

Guess what? No one is forcing you to use Windows. So don't use it! Have fun with Linux...no one cares.

 

[auntjemima]

Smartphone doesn't have any personal files, no bank account info, no personal pictures, no nothing. Besides it's not even conneted to the internet unless I specifically want to look up something.

Imagine my smartphone as the hallway, my PC as my bedroom. I'm fine with allowing people into my hallway. But I'll very carefully look at who I let into my bedroom.

And again, another user with the "Well, I don't my cell phone for anything that would corroborate your point!". If you expect me to believe that your cell phone has no info on it and isn't used for anything, you're crazy. Explain to me the point of a cell phone that you keep in airplane mode and never use any features of?

You sound like the general Linux crowd. "I haven't done/seen/heard/read that so it can't possibly be the case". So ridiculous.

 

[Vermillion]

So do you have a list of all the data that Apple and Google collect? And Apple and Google niche? About the only two tech companies more valuable than Microsoft so hardly niche.

Apple no as I don't use them. Perhaps somebody heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem can chime in.

Google yes. https://www.google.com/dashboard

Everything I've ever done using my Google account is right there at my fingertips. I can delete anything. I can delete pieces. I can search for one thing and then delete that search entry so that I don't get targeted ads for that item (works great when shopping for the wife and forget Incognito Mode). I can see every app I've installed and what devices are attached to my account. I can even dump all that info to CSV file if I so desire.

Oh there's also this nifty little button with the word "DELETE" on it. I can delete my entire Google account data in one fell swoop.


In the end this has never ever been about data collection like some people make it out to be. This is about CONTROL OF THEIR DATA. IT'S THEIR DATA. Not Microsoft's. Whether or not another company is data mining is 100% irrelevant. I have control of my data tied to my Google account and I'm OK with that. I have zero control over anything leaving Windows 10 and I'm NOT ok with that.

I mean Jeezus...all MS had to do was put in a mother fucking OFF SWITCH and post clear and concise information on all the data being collected on each mode. That's it. No more, no less. Just those two very easy things and all of this bullshit is gone in a flash. To top it off 85+% of the population would never turn off "recommended" mode meaning MS can siphon all the private data they want.

Instead what does MS do? Gives us the data on "basic" mode which shows an incredible amount of data being siphoned and no OFF switch which just incites the masses more. That only makes you go "just WTF are they collecting on the default "recommended" mode?" I mean how fucking stupid can MS be at this point?

No, you can't. You're being tracked through the ad cookies and +1 buttons from most any site that uses any google tie-in.

Incognito Mode fixes that as does simple things like duckduckgo, ad blockers, script blockers, hosts file, etc. But let's not use facts here.

 

[Cmdrmonkey]

I wonder if the folks at Microsoft are enjoying my collection of lesbian porn as much as I am!

 

[auntjemima]

The point is that with Google (unless you're on a Chrome book), you can decide to not send them anything. Don't like their terms? Don't have a gmail account. Afraid of browsing the web with their browser? Fuck off, Chrome. But with Windows 10? I guess the only option is to get Linux or a Mac. Most lay people can opt out of Google services if they want to. Try telling someone with basic computer skills to build their own Linux box or spend more on a Mac.

LOL, you better watch out. Linux guys around here claim that anyone can install Linux in a snap, even easier than Windows!!! Better watch your back because they repeat this about 30 times a day.

 

[auntjemima]

Apple no as I don't use them. Perhaps somebody heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem can chime in.

Google yes. https://www.google.com/dashboard

Everything I've ever done using my Google account is right there at my fingertips. I can delete anything. I can delete pieces. I can search for one thing and then delete that search entry so that I don't get targeted ads for that item (works great when shopping for the wife and forget Incognito Mode). I can see every app I've installed and what devices are attached to my account. I can even dump all that info to CSV file if I so desire.

Oh there's also this nifty little button with the word "DELETE" on it. I can delete my entire Google account data in one fell swoop.


In the end this has never ever been about data collection like some people make it out to be. This is about CONTROL OF THEIR DATA. IT'S THEIR DATA. Not Microsoft's. Whether or not another company is data mining is 100% irrelevant. I have control of my data tied to my Google account and I'm OK with that. I have zero control over anything leaving Windows 10 and I'm NOT ok with that.

I mean Jeezus...all MS had to do was put in a mother fucking OFF SWITCH and post clear and concise information on all the data being collected on each mode. That's it. No more, no less. Just those two very easy things and all of this bullshit is gone in a flash. To top it off 85+% of the population would never turn off "recommended" mode meaning MS can siphon all the private data they want.

Instead what does MS do? Gives us the data on "basic" mode which shows an incredible amount of data being siphoned and no OFF switch which just incites the masses more. That only makes you go "just WTF are they collecting on the default "recommended" mode?" I mean how fucking stupid can MS be at this point?



Incognito Mode fixes that as does simple things like duckduckgo, ad blockers, script blockers, hosts file, etc. But let's not use facts here.

Do you ACTUALLY believe that Google doesn't have all that information backed up before you click "Delete"? Or are you just being facetious?

 

[trparky]

Everything I've ever done using my Google account is right there at my fingertips. I can delete anything. I can delete pieces. ....... Oh there's also this nifty little button with the word "DELETE" on it. I can delete my entire Google account data in one fell swoop.

Too bad it's already been sold by Google. You can delete it all you want but Google has already sold it. The cat is out of the bag, the horse is out of the barn.

I have control of my data tied to my Google account and I'm OK with that

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh God, you're killing me. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ohhhh, my sides are hurting me.

*picks myself up off the floor*

How naive are you? Really. You really think you are in control over your Google data? Oh, how little do you know. As soon as Google has your data they have people lined up to buy it. By the end of the week, hell... by the end of the day, Google has already sold your data. You can delete it all you want but it's already been sold.

 

[Vermillion]

Do you ACTUALLY believe that Google doesn't have all that information backed up before you click "Delete"? Or are you just being facetious?

Too bad it's already been sold by Google. You can delete it all you want but Google has already sold it. The cat is out of the bag, the horse is out of the barn.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh God, you're killing me. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ohhhh, my sides are hurting me.

*picks myself up off the floor*

How naive are you? Really. You really think you are in control over your Google data? Oh, how little do you know. As soon as Google has your data they have people lined up to buy it. By the end of the week, hell... by the end of the day, Google has already sold your data. You can delete it all you want but it's already been sold.

Tin foil on a little tight?

Show me how I'm naive? Show me where they sell my data? Oh wait...you can't.

Google isn't in the business of selling user data to their competition. Their in the business of using my information to sell stuff to ME as that's how they make money. Selling my data to a 3rd party does what for them? Nothing because that 3rd party would have no idea who I am so they wouldn't even bother buying it as it's worthless.

 

[Iceshot]

So do you have a list of all the data that Apple and Google collect? And Apple and Google niche? About the only two tech companies more valuable than Microsoft so hardly niche.

heatlesssun - You have a well defined history of fervently defending Microsoft on this issue and when I and others have painstakingly countered you on this with critical thinking, common sense, and unquestionable documentation from Microsoft's own URL's exposing the damning and indefensible TOS / Privacy Agreement that define Telmentry & Windows 10 you remain silent or counter with fallacy's. To answer your question, No. If you want a cross comparative breakdown of TOS / Privacy Agreements differences between Microsoft, Apple, and Google do your own research. I'm not going to waste time on a spoon feeding thesis you would likely just choose to ignore. I will say Google and Apple's Terms of Service and Privacy Policies (while invasive and worthy of scrutiny) DONT grant themselves fully unrestricted access to every personal file of mine and record every keystroke, website, application I use, etc.

(Cursory non exhaustive comparison)

Google & Apple = I can use alternative search engines, block cookies and scripts, use a VPN or TOR, install privacy minded builds of Android / IOS / OSX, and they DONT (nor ever have had) SUPER USER access combined with a Orwellian Terms of Service and Privacy Policy allowing them at their discretion full access to ANY of my data Carte Blanche with no restrictions whatsoever!

Windows 10 = Complete and total evisceration of Privacy in every way on all levels (VPN & TOR don't stop Microsoft). Every nuance of interaction and data generated in Windows 10 is collected and shared with federal alphabet spook agencies and sold commercially to whomever Microsoft wishes. Efforts made by the tech savy community to curb / stop this obscene level of data harvesting, are aggressively and routinely broken / reenabled by Microsoft with "undocumented" changes in new patches that frequently having nothing to do with Telemetry.

I don't know how to make this any more transparent and or easy to understand.

 

[trparky]

All of you are soooooo afraid of the big bad Microsoft while you're completely oblivious to what Google is collecting and selling about you every second of the day. Everywhere you go on the Internet, Google knows. Every web site you visit, Google knows. Everything you search, Google knows. Their tracking code is just about everywhere including this very site. Yes, even HardOCP uses Google.

Case in point...

(function() {
var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text/javascript'; ga.async = true;
ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? 'https://ssl' : 'http://www') + '.google-analytics.com/ga.js';
var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(ga, s);
})();​

Right there! GOOGLE!

You people have no damn clue just how far Google's tentacles reach into every corner of your online life. And all the while you sit there shitting on Microsoft Google is sitting back lapping all of that rich data up and smiling all the way to the bank.

 

[LBJM]

Which isn't any different from Windows 10, with the enterprise versions of both you have to do certain things like not use Windows Update or Defender, block certain ports, etc.

I wouldn't trust windows firewall to block anything.

 

[Guarana [BAWLS]]

This is pretty bad,
...
there is over 3000 data points collected
if those points average out to 1kb per data point thats 3 megs a day and lil over 1 gig a year.

AND THATS AFTER THEY CUT IT DOWN TO HALF !!

and just a basic calculation concerning bandwidth, figuring that 1TB of bandwidth costs the user 70 a month

your giving microsoft 1.25 a month in free data services or 15 bucks a year.

Your math needs some /serious/ work, sonny.

3MB / day ~= 1GB / yr (your numbers)

1TB = 70.00$

1TB = 1,000GB = 70.00

1GB = 0.07$

 

[trparky]

Google isn't in the business of selling user data to their competition.

Anyway to make a quick buck. Remember... Google makes money by selling advertising and that means selling your data to advertisers.

 

[heatlesssun]

Instead what does MS do? Gives us the data on "basic" mode which shows an incredible amount of data being siphoned and no OFF switch which just incites the masses more. That only makes you go "just WTF are they collecting on the default "recommended" mode?" I mean how fucking stupid can MS be at this point?

I've never argued against more disclosure and an off switch. As much as I get called a Microsoft shill I've CONSTANTLY left feedback on this with Microsoft and suggested an off switch and better disclosure? Because it's better to ask in informed manner that scream conspiracies if you want developers to take you seriously. At the basic level from the docs I've read thus far it's a lot of metadata that's pretty much worthless at the individual level, like who really cares when one was able to first login after an update besides the developer? And there's plenty of tools out there to turn this even this off that no time like Winaero Tweaker and it even works with the CU update.

I totally have agreed with the disclosure and off switch but some people are now blowing this WAY out of proportion. There's detailed documentation and process controls around this. Maybe not in the form of what some people want and I get that but no, this isn't spyware, and yes it can be turned off.

 

[Shotglass01]

Anyway to make a quick buck. Remember... Google makes money by selling advertising and that means selling your data to advertisers.

It's alright my man, keep telling yourself it's the same. Last time I checked, I wasn't running Android to play BF1 or Doom.

 

[KarsusTG]

Or you know, you one of many utilities and step-by-step guides to turn it off if you find it that problematic. I'm not saying it's perfect for those that concerned about it, but there apps out that that literally turn it into a single button process.

Except even if you did that, they just turn it back on again at the next update...

Honestly, if it was legitimate why would they reset everyone's defaults back over and over? Why would they hard code this shit in to make it this difficult to turn off in the first place?

Seriously I like windows 10 but at some point you have to ask "Why did they think that was a good idea?"

 

[heatlesssun]

heatlesssun - You have a well defined history of fervently defending Microsoft on this issue and when I and others have painstakingly countered you on this with critical thinking, common sense, and unquestionable documentation from Microsoft's own URL's exposing the damning and indefensible TOS / Privacy Agreement that define Telmentry & Windows 10 you remain silent or counter with fallacy's.

Just not true. I've said from day one there should be an off switch and more disclosure on what's being collected. What I've argued against is people making stuff all. And as for that TOS you're talking about, people were often referencing parts of it that had to do with online services like OneDrive and Outlook that were not part of Windows 10. Even under Linux, where OneDrive or Outlook are being used, the user would be attached to the same TOS.

 

[Shotglass01]

Seriously I like windows 10 but at some point you have to ask "Why did they think that was a good idea?"

Exactly, because it wasn't. It's nothing more than monopolistic control on an environment they have. I don't know if they actually sold any of the data but certainly that was in the forefront of thinking it was a good idea. Daddy's gotta bring home the bacon.

 

[heatlesssun]

Except even if you did that, they just turn it back on again at the next update...

And there are tools that automate it validate it after updates. Never said it was ideal but it's still easy to control this process and there's lots of info on doing it.

 

[tetris42]

And what prevents them from only telling part of the story?

Nothing.

 

[ChadD]

LOL, you better watch out. Linux guys around here claim that anyone can install Linux in a snap, even easier than Windows!!! Better watch your back because they repeat this about 30 times a day.

Well it takes the same level of competence it takes to install windows on a machine with no OS. And of course there are plenty of people in the world of whom you wouldn't expect as much.

 

[Ultima99]

Strawman. Gmail, Facebook, Amazon aren't fundamentally necessary in order for me to use the internet, so I can avoid them. I can even set up my machine to stop tracking cookies and the like, and the impact on my internet browsing experience would be pretty minimal.

Microsoft is in a different position because they're providing a necessary component of the computer's software. My computer is a brick if I don't have an OS on it, and most of my software is useless if that OS isn't Windows. They're in a position of significantly more power, so privacy violations on their part are a much more serious concern.

Also if W10 were a free product (it's not, even if it came with your laptop OEM, it's built into the price), then the user tracking might be a little more justifiable, at which point it would be up to the user to decide if the benefits it provides compensates giving up their data, as is the case with the other "free" services people always mention.

Strawman? What a load of bull.

We all know a large portion of us here use a phone with an Android OS. We also know that a super-majority of us are using Google as our search engine of choice and don't even try to deny how many Gmail users there are, both here and everywhere else. They data mine everything you do. They know what porn sites you're visiting. If you have a rash on your ass and you google for info about it guess what? Google knows. You'll probably even get ads for cream if you aren't blocking them. In spite of all this there's a damn good chance you use 2 or maybe even all 3 of these and not one peep is heard about how they're bending you over and violating you.

Plain fact is that Google always gets a pass while all you MS haters are foaming at the mouth anytime Windows 10 gets mentioned.

Besides, go over to the alternative OS forums and they'll tell you how most people can get by with Linux. If Windows 10 bothers you so much then use something else.

 

[heatlesssun]

Nothing.

Actually everything. It's a 1/2 trillion dollar company that's made the most detailed disclosure of data collection I've ever seen. For them to lie about it would not be wise.

 

[ChadD]

And there are tools that automate it validate it after updates. Never said it was ideal but it's still easy to control this process and there's lots of info on doing it.

So you are advocating downloading a questionable third party App to automate hacking your OS on purpose ?

Man I understand why its so much easier to infect windows users if even seemingly intelligent ones suggest such things.

 

[Ultima99]

You'll have it when it will be google that provides the OS for your home computer.

Yeah they just do it for the worlds #1 phone OS, the #1 search engine in the world, and #1 free email service in the world. Yeah you're right, its no big deal.