Love your socket 754?

[sabrewolf732]

I <3 water.Air can't really come close to a good water setup.

 

[aldamon]

I need a maze 4 Also, 939 is faster in gaming. Dual core makes quite the differance since drivers are now multithreaded, and in games that have dual core optimizations like Q4 the differance is HUGE.

IMO, gaming is the worst reason to go X2. The second core makes a huge difference in CPU-limited resolutions which would most likely go unused by the typical dual-core user. I suppose if games were becoming less and less GPU dependent you'd have a point, but that's not the case.

 

[Nacho]

I still hang with my s754 for now.. Im goin dual core intel next build.. but my sempron 2500 @ 2.1ghz trucks along

And my x850 does just fine even at 1600x1200.

 

[Bone]

I'm in Europe so I can't get any from Newegg, but do you have core numbers, steppings, anything to identify a Venice? I might be able to choose from some chips so I need some info to get me started

I'm from Europe too, and going to build a s754 sytem next week. I was thinking of getting an a64 with the new 90nm Venice core but I can't find any around here(Romania). Pls. let me know if they are available in Europe, cuz maybe I'm gonna a few more weeks.
(Although I doubt they get here soon cuz I'm still able to buy here socket 939 CPUs with 130nm cores )

 

[sabrewolf732]

IMO, gaming is the worst reason to go X2. The second core makes a huge difference in CPU-limited resolutions which would most likely go unused by the typical dual-core user. I suppose if games were becoming less and less GPU dependent you'd have a point, but that's not the case.

so then, it begs the question, why go with amd at all? Isnt that the reason why people go with amd? Also, if you're running a x1900 you're being limited by the cpu even at 1600x1200.

 

[Bullitt]

People go AMD64 chips (32-bit) because clock for clock they constantly outperform the current intel offerings. Dual core is nice for multi-threaded apps, but games arent multi-threaded for the most part. Yes, there might be some, but give me a single-core if its physically clocked faster than the dual-core counterpart. Performance ratings be darned. a 3400/3500 is on the same level as a 4200 x2 but $150 less.

Whats more amusing is that my 3400 is clocked @ 2.4ghz and I paid $120 for it and it gives the same or better performance than the 2.2ghz 3500 @ $200. Simple economics.


Gaming with the intel offerings do not offer any benefits. Take any intel offering and slap that same vid card in the system, you will not have the performance that the amd offerings show.

 

[sabrewolf732]

People go AMD64 chips (32-bit) because clock for clock they constantly outperform the current intel offerings. Dual core is nice for multi-threaded apps, but games arent multi-threaded for the most part. Yes, there might be some, but give me a single-core if its physically clocked faster than the dual-core counterpart. Performance ratings be darned. a 3400/3500 is on the same level as a 4200 x2 but $150 less.

Whats more amusing is that my 3400 is clocked @ 2.4ghz and I paid $120 for it and it gives the same or better performance than the 2.2ghz 3500 @ $200. Simple economics.


Gaming with the intel offerings do not offer any benefits. Take any intel offering and slap that same vid card in the system, you will not have the performance that the amd offerings show.

You don't understand.... multithreaded drivers make up for the clock differance, and, multithreaded games perform insanely better, a dual core 2.8GHz p4 outperforms a fx57 by a large amount, if thats not insane I don't know what is.The point is, dual core offers better performance than single core in games, yet that dude said cpu's are fast enough, if so, a 3.6GHz p4 is fast enough.
And, the 3400+ is actually slower in several game engine than the 3500+, I can get you proof if you want.

 

[Volkswagen]

id like to see dual core p4's outperform a FX 57

 

[Nuc_E]

Me too. Dual core optimizations may streamline the graphics drivers and free up some processor power for game usage, but its not going to make the game engine any faster. Its not as if the dual core optimizations are instantly going to make every game SMP enabled. Even if the game is SMP enabled, it doesnt make a huge difference, especially at higher resolutions where any advantage disappears.

An FX57 will stomp a dual core 2.8 P4 in games.

 

[Toonage]

To briefly take a different direction people, I have a question: The eVGA 6800 Ultra and 3700-M Newark in the second rig is giving me overclocking fits with the DFI 250gb (same problem I know lots have had).......can anyone tell me if a 7800GS will cure this?

 

[Bullitt]

You don't understand.... multithreaded drivers make up for the clock differance, and, multithreaded games perform insanely better, a dual core 2.8GHz p4 outperforms a fx57 by a large amount, if thats not insane I don't know what is.The point is, dual core offers better performance than single core in games, yet that dude said cpu's are fast enough, if so, a 3.6GHz p4 is fast enough.
And, the 3400+ is actually slower in several game engine than the 3500+, I can get you proof if you want.

What I'd like to see is your admission that only at a certain level, is dual-core faster than a single-core offering. And my point is this: At the point where dual-core exceeds single core in single-threaded applications, you are talking at the same rough clock speed/core. Also compare the price difference at that performance point.

Yes, 3500 is faster than 3400 but we're talking within 1%. I dont feel 1% is worth 80-100 extra dollars. Your mileage may vary, but I'll keep that $80 and jack it into more memory or a vid-card upgrade.

I call shenanegans on p4's outperforming amd's in Gaming applications only. Show me one bench where a p4 beats the AMD, I can show you 4 where its the opposite. Its all in what you play. I play BF2, UT2k4 based games and occasionally source based games. AMD has it locked in.

 

[CrimandEvil]

To briefly take a different direction people, I have a question: The eVGA 6800 Ultra and 3700-M Newark in the second rig is giving me overclocking fits with the DFI 250gb (same problem I know lots have had).......can anyone tell me if a 7800GS will cure this?

To continue with Toonage's direction I'm looking to get my feet wet with a s754 Sempron setup before AM2 hits so I'm looking at mobos right now. Anyone have any suggests for a good OCable mobo? So far I'm looking at an Asus K8N4-E Deluxe, an Abit NV8 and DFI's nF4X Infinity. I could also look at MATX mobos for an Aria I have but seem to mostly be VIA mobos and I don't like VIA.

Anyone know of any others I should be looking at? I would like it have PCIe so I can reuse the video card later on and Firewire would be nice.

 

[nigerian_businessman]

LOL @ Dual 2.8 P4 being better for games than FX. hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Pass that pipe over here, I want a hit of what you're smokin.

 

[Nuc_E]

To continue with Toonage's direction I'm looking to get my feet wet with a s754 Sempron setup before AM2 hits so I'm looking at mobos right now. Anyone have any suggests for a good OCable mobo? So far I'm looking at an Asus K8N4-E Deluxe, an Abit NV8 and DFI's nF4X Infinity. I could also look at MATX mobos for an Aria I have but seem to mostly be VIA mobos and I don't like VIA.

Anyone know of any others I should be looking at? I would like it have PCIe so I can reuse the video card later on and Firewire would be nice.

The Biostar TForce is a good overclocker for a mATX board. But no firewire. It looks to me like the K8N4-E is the only one with firewire, but I may be wrong.

 

[CrimandEvil]

It looks to me like the K8N4-E is the only one with firewire, but I may be wrong.

Any comment on the Abit or DFI board? I haven't been able to find much on them.

 

[Volkswagen]

LOL @ Dual 2.8 P4 being better for games than FX. hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Pass that pipe over here, I want a hit of what you're smokin.

hahah yeah i wanna try it out also

 

[sabrewolf732]

Obviously in quake 4 which is a multi threaded game title the dual core p4 outperforms a single core a64. BUT obviously the dual core a64 will outperform the dual core p4. Use logic people

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/amd athlon 64 fx60_010906100124/10513.png

Huh what? Do I win? You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

What I'd like to see is your admission that only at a certain level, is dual-core faster than a single-core offering. And my point is this: At the point where dual-core exceeds single core in single-threaded applications, you are talking at the same rough clock speed/core. Also compare the price difference at that performance point.

Yes, 3500 is faster than 3400 but we're talking within 1%. I dont feel 1% is worth 80-100 extra dollars. Your mileage may vary, but I'll keep that $80 and jack it into more memory or a vid-card upgrade.

I call shenanegans on p4's outperforming amd's in Gaming applications only. Show me one bench where a p4 beats the AMD, I can show you 4 where its the opposite. Its all in what you play. I play BF2, UT2k4 based games and occasionally source based games. AMD has it locked in.

So you 754 people's excuse that dual core does nothing for gaming are obviously wrong, especially with several multi threaded games coming out this year, not to mention that multi threaded vid card drivers make up for the clock speed loss of going dual core

 

[CrimandEvil]

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/amd athlon 64 fx60_010906100124/10513.png

Ouch, the EE performs roughly the same as a X2 3800. lol

 

[sabrewolf732]

Ouch, the EE performs roughly the same as a X2 3800. lol

I never said the dual core a64's were slower than dual core p4's, however single core's get raped.

 

[Nuc_E]

Any comment on the Abit or DFI board? I haven't been able to find much on them.

I don't know if you are going to find much in the way of reviews for 754 pci-e boards, since they kinda quietly entered the market. I probably would have went for the DFI board, except that I have a major beef with the layout and orientation of the socket itself. Its turned 90 degrees from normal orientation.

 

[L1ght]

So you 754 people's excuse that dual core does nothing for gaming are obviously wrong, especially with several multi threaded games coming out this year, not to mention that multi threaded vid card drivers make up for the clock speed loss of going dual core

LOL. And when are you going to figure out that the cpu means almost nothing in gaming? At 1600x1200 and above, its ALL GPU.

Sure, at 800x600 there is a decient difference, but who plays at that resolution???

I stayed with socket 754 cause socket AM2 is coming out.

And lol, I cant believe we are discussing dual core cpus in a "Love your socket 754 thread."

This is just to funny.

 

[sabrewolf732]

LOL. And when are you going to figure out that the cpu means almost nothing in gaming? At 1600x1200 and above, its ALL GPU.

Sure, at 800x600 there is a decient difference, but who plays at that resolution???

I stayed with socket 754 cause socket AM2 is coming out.

And lol, I cant believe we are discussing dual core cpus in a "Love your socket 754 thread."

This is just to funny.

so then, it begs the question, why go with amd at all? Isnt that the reason why people go with amd? Also, if you're running a x1900 you're being limited by the cpu even at 1600x1200.

to which people responded with gaming
When I prove them wrong they then begin to say "gaming isn't cpu limited". Seems like an endless cycle

 

[CrimandEvil]

I don't know if you are going to find much in the way of reviews for 754 pci-e boards, since they kinda quietly entered the market. I probably would have went for the DFI board, except that I have a major beef with the layout and orientation of the socket itself. Its turned 90 degrees from normal orientation.

Thanks, I'll probably end up going with the DFI then. The heatsink should be much of a problem, I kind of wanted an excuse to get a Ninja anyways (first choice was an AC Freezer).

 

[Bullitt]

to which people responded with gaming
When I prove them wrong they then begin to say "gaming isn't cpu limited". Seems like an endless cycle

Gaming is CPU limited at lower resolutions. Yes, you can throw into the mix 1024x768 graphic benchmarks, but I'm not swayed by it. Show the 1280x1024 benchmarks and your dual core lead _quickly_ diminishes. Granted, yes it is still higher to 15% (being generous) but go to the next step 1600x1200 and its down to less than 2%. Simple cost versus performance, I'm not spending +200 for 2% gains.

I'll step up here. I'll be the first to say that yeah, I'm missing out on 5% performance loss with Quake4. However, when M2 hits, thats where my upgrade path lies. Not with s939 and dual core. Its premature at best at this stage of the game with 2 titles out there to take advantage (and dubious advantage at the resolutions that most enthusiasts use) and spend the money on a s939 dual core offering when s754 offers comparable performance at the higher resolutions.

I'm sorry, I quit playing games @ 1024x768 when I moved outta the gf4 era.
Look, I'm not saying that dual core isnt where its at. But at this stage of the game, its not cost effective to get a super-duper processor and the latests and greatest video card if all you are going to do is play them at 800x600 or 1024x768. That doesnt offer a good experience to me.

I'll stand behind my belief that s754 offers the best bang for the buck out there.

 

[BigMacAttack]

I'll stand behind my belief that s754 offers the best bang for the buck out there

I'd have to agree at this stage. I've had s754 for 1.5 years and its still quite servicable - both at home and at work. I use Acad to design subdivisions and this s754 still kicks butt with either my 3400+ C0 Clawhammer or my 3700+ CG Clawhammer on an Asus K8V mobo (K8T800 chipset). I have a VisionTek X800Pro AGP card in this system and it runs HL/HL2/HL2 Lost Coast with no issues at all at high res and AA/AF on. I can oc the cpu and the video card with ease, too. I play HLDM Killbox and HL2DM Pro (gdawgg clan member) and I regularly trounce players with hotter systems than mine.
The home setup is nice too - s754 3000+ E6 Venice cpu (260x10) on an Asus K8N4-E Deluxe mobo (nForce4 4x chipset) with a Sapphire X800Pro PCI-e video card. Both systems have cheapo Ultra PC3200 DDR400 ram and run very well. 3dMark03 scores for both systems (at 1024x768 default settings) are 11,500 +/-. s754 still serves me very well and when the new 3200+ E6 and 3400+ E4 90nm Venice cpu's finally get to market they'll add even more muscle to the s754 platform.
Socket 754 is far from dead.

 

[aldamon]

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/amd athlon 64 fx60_010906100124/10513.png

Huh what? Do I win? You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

1027 x 768? LMFAO.

 

[sabrewolf732]

1027 x 768? LMFAO.

obviously, that's where it's going to take most effect. DUH. You're the one that also laughed at a p4 dual core beating an fx Also, if you're running a 17" lcd (which seems to be the majority of people) you're still limited at 1280x1024.

 

[Selecter]

you dont like s754, then get the fuck out of the thread. Only a idiot would come into the "love your 754" thread blithering about dual core CPU's. Talk about missing the point....

 

[cherrypik]

Just wondering if I could join the club. Specs are in sig. My 3700+ does 2.7 easily, with some tweaking should go farther. Just built this pc a couple of weeks ago.

Have no idea what temps are, as they go all over the place. Its stable at 1.85 volts though, so I dont care what the temps are.

Are the best bios the latest at dfi's website? Or is there better modded ones? Thanks

Might pick up that DFI NF4X Infinity. I already have the 3700+. Is there anything that you don't like about the MB. It looks like a good layout.

 

[BigMacAttack]

Have no idea what temps are, as they go all over the place. Its stable at 1.85 volts though, so I dont care what the temps are.

Uh - if you want that cpu to live for any reasonable amount of time you may want to make sure you have a good aftermarket hsf and keep temps to the low 50's under load, otherwise you're gonna be buying a new one right quick.

 

[CRXican]

Found a buyer for my Storm water block. My mission for WC is over.

 

[aldamon]

obviously, that's where it's going to take most effect. DUH. You're the one that also laughed at a p4 dual core beating an fx Also, if you're running a 17" lcd (which seems to be the majority of people) you're still limited at 1280x1024.

Then it's just as useless as I said. Nobody buys Socket 939, X2 CPUs, and good video cards to play games at 1024 x 768. It's dumb. Thanks for making my pont for me though Enjoy your hardware.

Oh, and I don't have a 17" LCD. I have a 21" Trinitron CRT.

Uh - if you want that cpu to live for any reasonable amount of time you may want to make sure you have a good aftermarket hsf and keep temps to the low 50's under load, otherwise you're gonna be buying a new one right quick.

We're on water and our 3700+ CPUs are 13 micron. It's OK. Running a 9-micron Venice like yours at 1.85V would be suicide, but that's not what we have

Might pick up that DFI NF4X Infinity. I already have the 3700+. Is there anything that you don't like about the MB. It looks like a good layout.

I've had the NF4X since October and I have three minor complaints:

1.) It has the nForce4 / X-FI conflict. I had to RMA my X-Fi to get the firmware flashed.

2.) The temp sensors are broken.

3.) The location of the PCI-E slot is way too low. I literally could not buy a 7800 GTX because it's too long and my pump is in the way. My GT barely fits. I'm not sure why DFI chose to put the slot so low, but it sucks.

Good, cheap board otherwise and the 1.85V VCORE makes it perfect for water.

Found a buyer for my Storm water block. My mission for WC is over.

Sorry to hear it. I've had my Cascade for a long time now and I still love it.

 

[cherrypik]

I've had the NF4X since October and I have three minor complaints:

1.) It has the nForce4 / X-FI conflict. I had to RMA my X-Fi to get the firmware flashed.

2.) The temp sensors are broken.

3.) The location of the PCI-E slot is way too low. I literally could not buy a 7800 GTX because it's too long and my pump is in the way. My GT barely fits. I'm not sure why DFI chose to put the slot so low, but it sucks.

Good, cheap board otherwise and the 1.85V VCORE makes it perfect for water.

Well I might have to change my mind because the reason I'm buying another s754 mb is for the new 7800gt I purchased. You would think DFI would fix the temp. sensor by now. BTW, thanks for the imput, much appreciated.

 

[grahamf]

well to shift the conversation a little bit i guess i'll post some pics of what ive been up to with my s754 rig. the chipset heatsink on my lanparty had been getting very, very hot i decided to replace it with a zalman one which provides a little more surface area to get rid of the heat. because of my x850 xt it required a little modding to make it fit. you can see the 2 fins i had to dremel off in the top right pic.

while i had the motherboard out of the case i also decided to go ahead and take the IHS off my sempron. it was fairly easy to do however it require me to do a little modification of my zalman 7000cu to get it to fit properly afterwords.

after i got the system up and running it netted me about a 2 degree temperature drop, which for my sempron means idling at about 28 degrees and full load at about 42 degrees. i'll be testing later this week to see if the cooler chipset and slightly cooler cpu will let me get my stable overclock a little higher to help make it easier for me not to upgrade before am2 comes around.

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

take a *really* close look to make sure the zalman isn't hitting the socket cam.

nice though. brings back memories of my old dfi nf3-250gb...

 

[grahamf]

yeah, the zalman isnt hitting the cam, it was some other modifications i had to done to it before when i was using it on my socket A rig. there was interference from things on that motherboard that forced me to do a little chopping and fabrication on the zalman to make it fit. so when i moved to s754 i had to do some more modifications to make it fit like it should have. unfortunately this made me do some more modifactions when i de-lidded the cpu. i think its a good thing that am2 has a new mounting system since this 7000cu is getting pretty chopped up from all this work ive done to it.

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

hehe, my zalman is slowly turning green

 

[CRXican]

Ok, I had a Shuttle SN85G4V3 and the motherboard took a shit (as far as I can tell). I couldn't find a V3 so I'm gettting a used V2 motherboard.

This means I will need another Skt 754 processor soon. Any of you guys have any laying around that you're willing to part with?

 

[AssMan]

Ok, I had a Shuttle SN85G4V3 and the motherboard took a shit (as far as I can tell). I couldn't find a V3 so I'm gettting a used V2 motherboard.

This means I will need another Skt 754 processor soon. Any of you guys have any laying around that you're willing to part with?

Monarch has some cheap Semprons for about $50 shipped.

 

[Bone]

I see there are lots of you guys who changed your nf3 250 mobos to nf4.
Is there any significant diffrance in performance or just the PCI-Express slot and support for Native Command Queueing for Hard drives?