Linux only needs one 'killer' game to explode, says Battlefield director

[heatlesssun]

No we have not been down that road. You are talking about a version of windows designed to run on Phone hardware. Not a version of windows that is fully x86 compliant... can run any crazy GPU a OEM whats to equip it with. Windows 10 s is not windows RT. Its windows with W32 disabled not more powerful x86 hardware.

Windows RT was tied to the Windows Store just like Windows 10 S. The difference is that Windows 10 S is Win32 compatible. Win32 isn't disabled, the apps are sandboxed and only those are permitted to run. So a big difference technically. But in the real world the same software limitation of being tied to the Windows Store which is between now and probably never going to get more than a fraction of Win32 software ported over. True, enough for many just not nearly all.

People building game rigs are NOT valves bread and butter.

But almost certainly their best customers. Steam use with DIY gamers is probably as close to 100% as it gets.

As we have pointed out a lot of times... the vast majority of Steam users are using integrated GPUs and off the shelf OEM purchased machines. The number of people like you and me that build our machines was never large, and is not growing my friend.

I know. And not the folks that are going to be installing Linux and dual booting. Requiring these folks to install an OS to play a game is never going to be a thing.

As for what does it matter to developers that aren't valve... the answer is pretty damn simple. MS CHARGES them more then valve does, that is what every developer who have dealt with both has stated so far.

Source?

Also if I am a developer of games that cost me 50+ million and years to develop... ya I'm paying attention to the Valve vs MS battle. Cause if Valve goes away guess what... MS will charge even more.

Well even a consumer like myself pays attention. I've got a shitload of money spent on games on Steam that aren't Linux compatible. Linux exclusives wouldn't fix that situation. Really, if I were worried about if I wouldn't even be buying many games, I certainly wouldn't be buying VR games.

If Valve never turned steam into a thing, MS would no doubt be charging more to developers to list their product already. Developers have long memories, and are often headed by people who have been around the block a few times. I doubt many of them really want to jump into bed with MS alone.

Well when it comes to PC gaming they are making their money from Windows users like Valve. If Valve or other developers don't want my money anymore because of all the thousands I've given these guys for years, ok. It's one thing to have healthy paranoia, it's another to go cray cray over doomsday scenarios about Windows. Gabe did it and sure it's cool that Linux has some game support now. But Windows users are his bread and butter.

 

[heatlesssun]

I don't know Heatlesssun from a bar of soap, his an IP address on the end of a broadband connection to me. However it has to be said that judging from his postings, he doesn't care for the history of gaming and would likely prefer it all dies in a house fire: He only cares for the latest and greatest as he believes that allows him some form of superiority considering his system and therefore somehow believes that as a result his opinion applies to gamers as a whole.

I've been playing and buying computer games for decades. So this is just silly sounding to me.

In his opinion Linux does not allow for what he considers to be the 'latest and greatest', so he is opposed to anyone that portrays Linux and gaming in a positive light believing they're exaggerating certain realities.

It's not what I consider, just go look at Steam right and see what's available for Linux. Far less than Windows. I guess Valve considers VR the latest and greatest and now going on 16 months after it's been available generally for Windows, still nothing but betas from Valve.

If there were ever something for Valve to tie exclusivity or at least priority to, if it were something Valve was truly interested in, at least focusing on Linux as the lead platform would have definitely something that would have raised the awareness of Linux. And something folks like me could handle. Maybe not like it but hell I setup Linux Steam VR just to try it out. I certainly would have done it if that's what I had to do to use it.

 

[BulletDust]

PC gamers are, generally speaking, quite tech savvy. There's nothing to say the bulk of gamers aren't interested in expanding their gaming horizons and trying something new.

 

[BulletDust]

I've been playing and buying computer games for decades. So this is just silly sounding to me.

I never said you hadn't been buying and playing computer games for decades.

 

[ChadD]

Maybe not like it but hell I setup Linux Steam VR just to try it out. I certainly would have done it if that's what I had to do to use it.

Oh stop playing that sad card.... we all know you did that to win an argument nothing more.

 

[heatlesssun]

Oh stop playing that sad card.... we all know you did that to win an argument nothing more.

Huh? I didn't spend a lot of money on a VR setup because Windows is awesome. I spent a lot of money on it because I heard a lot of great things about it and wanted to at least try it. And yeah, I think it is awesome. Windows just happens to be the only PC OS that really supports it currently. If that had been Linux, so what? I'm fully capable of installing it on a its own drive, like I did on this sig rig anyway to try it out. Why wouldn't install a free OS if it were necessary to support hundreds of dollars in hardware in addition to now hundreds in software?

Sometimes you guys argue against yourselves on this stuff. It's pretty hilarious.

 

[BulletDust]

I use Linux because I think Linux is awesome, I'm also a gamer.

 

[heatlesssun]

And virtually all PC gamers would be using Linux for gaming if that's what it took to get capability with virtually all PC games. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to spend money on hardware and games and run Windows if it only supported 20% of PC games.

 

[BulletDust]

And virtually all PC gamers would be using Linux for gaming if that's what it took to get capability with virtually all PC games. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to spend money on hardware and games and run Windows if it only supported 20% of PC games.

For most of the population, including PC gamers, it doesn't make sense to spend $8000.00 on PC hardware to play games, period.

You're 100% proving my earlier claim correct.

 

[ChadD]

Huh? I didn't spend a lot of money on a VR setup because Windows is awesome. I spent a lot of money on it because I heard a lot of great things about it and wanted to at least try it. And yeah, I think it is awesome. Windows just happens to be the only PC OS that really supports it currently. If that had been Linux, so what? I'm fully capable of installing it on a its own drive, like I did on this sig rig anyway to try it out. Why wouldn't install a free OS if it were necessary to support hundreds of dollars in hardware in addition to now hundreds in software?

Sometimes you guys argue against yourselves on this stuff. It's pretty hilarious.

For the 10,000 time I... and the vast majority of gamers don't give a shit. VR is doomed and a dead end tech >.< Its not even an argument... yes I have tried it sure I have a friend (family really) that has shelled out for a nice setup powered by a sweet rig with a 1080. Made me Puke. No thanks. The fact that no matter how good your setup right now a good number of people get physically ill using the tech, VR will never be. I'm not sure if there is much else to argue really... its a tech that makes people physically ill... who in their right mind backs that tech until that is solved. (the entire push right now boggles my mind) The companies that backed it before the tech was figured out may or may not be around for the day that perhaps VR is practical and hits main stream support (in 20 years).... they need an actual break through on a medical issue, the craziest thing is the smoother things get as GPUs get more powerful the more people will be puking using it. Its not even logical to back it right now.

You installed Linux VR to win an argument. I remember I was there. lol

We all agree with you Linux + VR isn't a thing right now... Valve is working on it, and frankly I hope they drop it and spend their $ on something that will matter.

 

[BulletDust]

You installed Linux VR to win an argument. I remember I was there. lol

Bear in mind that we never actually saw anything....?

 

[ChadD]

Bear in mind that we never actually saw anything....?

Good point... there to read his account anyway. lol

We argued about VR for a few days... and then what do you know heatle is undertaking a half hearted attempt to install Steam VR on Linux. lol

 

[BulletDust]

Good point... there to read his account anyway. lol

We argued about VR for a few days... and then what do you know heatle is undertaking a half hearted attempt to install Steam VR on Linux. lol

Even if he did actually resize his Windows partition/add another drive and install Linux on the precious sig rig, it further proves the point that Windows gamers are not entirely opposed to installing Linux and learning new things given enough motivation.

 

[heatlesssun]

For most of the population, including PC gamers, it doesn't make sense to spend $8000.00 on PC hardware to play games, period.

You're 100% proving my earlier claim correct.

LOL! Like a lot of people in this forum I've been building gaming PCs for a long time and good ones can do a hell of lot more than play games. Hell now that literally make you see alternate realities. And we've been through this before, I'm simply far more interested in doing things with my PCs than what the OS is as long as the OS can support it. Linux, Windows, it makes a shits difference as long as it does the job.

 

[BulletDust]

LOL! Like a lot of people in this forum I've been building gaming PCs for a long time and good ones can do a hell of lot more than play games. Hell now that literally make you see alternate realities. And we've been through this before, I'm simply far more interested in doing things with my PCs than what the OS is as long as the OS can support it. Linux, Windows, it makes a shits difference as long as it does the job.

That's right, you like to brag about what you perceive to be the latest and greatest, I never disputed this point.

The problem is you then project that onto everyone due to some self absolved superiority as a result of the money you spent on a PC of all things.

 

[heatlesssun]

For the 10,000 time I... and the vast majority of gamers don't give a shit. VR is doomed and a dead end tech >.<

Fine, it's doomed. It's currently getting more games on Steam than Linux. I'll enjoy it while I can. Like a lot of other folks around here that are now buying Rifts because of the price.

 

[heatlesssun]

That's right, you like to brag about what you perceive to be the latest and greatest, I never disputed this point.

LOL! This is a place FULL of people that are into the latest and greatest, that's what this site is about. It's not bragging, it's just what a lot of people enjoy and have for years. It's like you never read the HardOCP content.

 

[BulletDust]

Fine, it's doomed. It's currently getting more games on Steam than Linux. I'll enjoy it while I can. Like a lot of other folks around here that are now buying Rifts because of the price.

An example of Facebook selling a product at a loss in order to draw in potential customers - A scenario that's apparently absurd, even considering that Valve doesn't have shareholders to answer to, unlike Facebook...?

 

[heatlesssun]

Even if he did actually resize his Windows partition/add another drive and install Linux on the precious sig rig, it further proves the point that Windows gamers are not entirely opposed to installing Linux and learning new things given enough motivation.

And it's got nothing to do with Windows or Linux. It's about doing things that people want with their devices. And Linux isn't anything new to me or a lot of other experienced computer folks in a place like this.

 

[BulletDust]

LOL! This is a place FULL of people that are into the latest and greatest, that's what this site is about. It's not bragging, it's just what a lot of people enjoy and have for years. It's like you never read the HardOCP content.

Another generalisation that the bulk of [H] can justify $8000.00 on a PC, ~$2000.00 on a processor that may gain them an additional 5% at most over a similarly clocked gaming processor as opposed to a workstation processor.

You're literally the king of generalisation.

 

[BulletDust]

And it's got nothing to do with Windows or Linux. It's about doing things that people want with their devices. And Linux isn't anything new to me or a lot of other experienced computer folks in a place like this.

And I'm sure people would like to play the exclusive HL3 and you've potentially highlighted that given enough motorvation installing Linux on their PC isn't out of the question.

 

[heatlesssun]

An example of Facebook selling a product at a loss in order to draw in potential customers - A scenario that's apparently absurd, even considering that Valve doesn't have shareholders to answer to, unlike Facebook...?

We don't know how much the Rift costs FB. And there's money to be made on the software side. Again, nothing like Valve making Linux exclusives that 99% of customers can't run.

 

[BulletDust]

We don't know how much the Rift costs FB. And there's money to be made on the software side. Again, nothing like Valve making Linux exclusives that 99% of customers can't run.

But we can assume the financials of Valve considering a HL3 exclusive for 6 months? Do you see the hypocrisy here?

 

[heatlesssun]

Another generalisation that the bulk of [H] can justify $8000.00 on a PC, ~$2000.00 on a processor that may gain them an additional 5% at most over a similarly clocked gaming processor as opposed to a workstation processor.

You're literally the king of generalisation.

Yeah, you don't read hardware content sections on this site. Like people who spend this kind of money don't know exactly what they are doing and why.

 

[ChadD]

Fine, it's doomed. It's currently getting more games on Steam than Linux. I'll enjoy it while I can. Like a lot of other folks around here that are now buying Rifts because of the price.

I hope Facebook is throwing in branded airline sickness bags.

 

[BulletDust]

Yeah, you don't read hardware content sections on this site. Like people who spend this kind of money don't know exactly what they are doing and why.

I'm interested in performance vehicles, I love the Ferrari F40LM, I read articles about it all the time - I don't own one.

 

[heatlesssun]

But we can assume the financials of Valve considering a HL3 exclusive for 6 months? Do you see the hypocrisy here?

It's not hypocrisy, there's just nothing in it financially for Valve to make exclusive games for any period of time for less than 1% of their customers. They don't make any money on Steam OS or Steam Machines.

 

[BulletDust]

It's not hypocrisy, there's just nothing in it financially for Valve to make exclusive games for any period of time for less than 1% of their customers. They don't make any money on Steam OS or Steam Machines.

They make plenty of money just being a digital distribution service and sometimes you need to waste money to make money. My comment on hypocrisy still stands.

 

[heatlesssun]

I hope Facebook is throwing in branded airline sickness bags.

LOL! Seems like most people have been very positive about the Rift after buying them at the sale price. After six months auto locomotion doesn't phase me any more. I don't experience motion sickness but it did take some time to get use to seeing movement without felling it. Now it's pretty cool.

 

[ChadD]

LOL! This is a place FULL of people that are into the latest and greatest, that's what this site is about. It's not bragging, it's just what a lot of people enjoy and have for years. It's like you never read the HardOCP content.

Go watch Kyles G-sync / Freesync blind test video today. He asks a lot of long time hardcore types if they would spend $300 more for what most of the see as at best a very small difference and all but one says no way.

Its not that I am saying there is no one around here willing to spend 8k on a gaming machine... they are just very few. If your one of them cool man, hey if I had the type of cash that I never had to check my bank account balance I might build an insane toy machine as well.

Most people have budgets and don't go stupid spending 2k on a processor that is a couple % points faster then the 1200 dollar chip.... and even more won't buy the 1200 chip that is at best a few % points faster then the 500 dollar chip. That is reality for most people. They make choices.

There is a difference between getting the best bang for the buck at every turn (which is a major reason lots of us read Kyles work)... and just plunking down for the most expensive shit all the time. Frankly if all you are going to do is plunk down for the top of the line GPU and CPU why the hell do you even have to read performance tests ? The more you spend the less % bump in performance you get... the point of reading benchmark tests is to understand where the sweet spots are. Yes people love to read about 1080 cards before they decide the 1070 will be fine for their rig.

I'm sure most of us here at some point overclocked a shitty celeron.... wth would you do that if you where not looking to save money. If I had 8k to spend on a gaming PC all the time I would have just bought the current top of the line PIII or whatever. lol Why would I care what Kyle has to say about Ryzen 5 if I'm just going to blow full retail on a 1800x or whatever. Reading reviews of the high end stuffs isn't all about running out and buying the best of the best... I really don't understand why you would even read the reviews if you where just going to give Nvidia and Intel whatever they are asking for their current top of the line all the time.

 

[heatlesssun]

They make plenty of money just being a digital distribution service and sometimes you need to waste money to make money. My comment on hypocrisy still stands.

Can't really make money on a digital distribution system if no one can buy what you're selling. Linux exclusives with its current market share wouldn't be a loss leader, just a loss. That's why no one is doing them, duh!

 

[BulletDust]

I remember when overclocking was about getting more for less and not about the size of your wallet.

That's when PC's were cool.

 

[BulletDust]

Can't really make money on a digital distribution system if no one can buy what you're selling. Linux exclusives with its current market share wouldn't be a loss leader, just a loss. That's why no one is doing them, duh!

They don't make any money directly out of advertising either. As a business owner I can assure you that advertising costs a fortune, it's very much a nessecity and is considered a debt, not a credit.

 

[heatlesssun]

Go watch Kyles G-sync / Freesync blind test video today. He asks a lot of long time hardcore types if they would spend $300 more for what most of the see as at best a very small difference and all but one says no way.

Its not that I am saying there is no one around here willing to spend 8k on a gaming machine... they are just very few. If your one of them cool man, hey if I had the type of cash that I never had to check my bank account balance I might build an insane toy machine as well.

Most people have budgets and don't go stupid spending 2k on a processor that is a couple % points faster then the 1200 dollar chip.... and even more won't buy the 1200 chip that is at best a few % points faster then the 500 dollar chip. That is reality for most people. They make choices.

There is a difference between getting the best bang for the buck at every turn (which is a major reason lots of us read Kyles work)... and just plunking down for the most expensive shit all the time. Frankly if all you are going to do is plunk down for the top of the line GPU and CPU why the hell do you even have to read performance tests ? The more you spend the less % bump in performance you get... the point of reading benchmark tests is to understand where the sweet spots are.

I'm sure most of us here at some point overclocked a shitty celeron.... wth would you do that if you where not looking to save money. If I had 8k to spend on a gaming PC all the time I would have just bought the current top of the line PIII or whatever. lol

I saw that video and read the article. What's hilarious about all this is that Kyle is currently running the same CPU I am. Of course that's his business but geez you guys make a lot noise about people running expensive hardware on a site full of people running expensive hardware. But that's pretty common around here. I'm not telling people to go buy this stuff. But this site certainly promotes a lot of expensive stuff.

 

[ChadD]

Can't really make money on a digital distribution system if no one can buy what you're selling. Linux exclusives with its current market share wouldn't be a loss leader, just a loss. That's why no one is doing them, duh!

See you do get it.... if MS fucks them over no one can buy their wares... they make nothing at all.

The idea of Linux exclusives would be to drive people moving to a platform they know can't be pulled out from under them at any time by a competitor.

 

[BulletDust]

I saw that video and read the article. What's hilarious about all this is that Kyle is currently running the same CPU I am. Of course that's his business but geez you guys make a lot noise about people running expensive hardware on a site full of people running expensive hardware. But that's pretty common around here. I'm not telling people to go buy this stuff. But this site certainly promotes a lot of expensive stuff.

Doesn't surprise me, you do have a tendency to follow whatever Kyle does. Still by no means supports any argument you may have about the users of [H] and how much they realistically justify on hardware purchases in a day and age where the cost of living is higher than ever and separation of the classes is at an all time high.

 

[ChadD]

I saw that video and read the article. What's hilarious about all this is that Kyle is currently running the same CPU I am. Of course that's his business but geez you guys make a lot noise about people running expensive hardware on a site full of people running expensive hardware. But that's pretty common around here. I'm not telling people to go buy this stuff. But this site certainly promotes a lot of expensive stuff.

Really I think you best read Kyles conclusions a little more often. He tests lots of high end stuff cause its his job. He awards Golds, and Silvers ect and value is a major part of his decision. He doesn't just go out and say yes this thousand dollar GPU gets a big Gold sticker cause its 5% faster then the card selling for half the price. I guess all you do is skim the graphs... that's cool man just don't run no ad blocker. lol

 

[BulletDust]

I think this thread's almost run it's course.

 

[BulletDust]

Sales of the 6950X are so low that not one of my wholesalers even keep them in stock, they're order only with a 2-3 day wait at minimum. Can't be that popular.

 

[heatlesssun]

Really I think you best read Kyles conclusions a little more often. He tests lots of high end stuff cause its his job. He awards Golds, and Silvers ect and value is a major part of his decision. He doesn't just go out and say yes this thousand dollar GPU gets a big Gold sticker cause its 5% faster then the card selling for half the price. I guess all you do is skim the graphs... that's cool man just don't run no ad blocker. lol

LOL! Let's see, he's got a 6950x and two Titan X's in his personal system. Not sure if he paid for it, I'm sure it's part of this business. But if he's running it's probably pretty good hardware. Really, I've been doing stuff a long time, like who hell builds PCs and doesn't know about price/performance ratios? Sometimes people just build the best they can and that's that. And the results are generally enjoyable.