Linux only needs one 'killer' game to explode, says Battlefield director

Status
Not open for further replies.
BulletDust

BulletDust

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Messages
6,057
DICE creative director Lars Gustavsson believes Linux needs one killer game to explode, not unlike the original Xbox and the Halo series. Makes sense, although I can't help but feel the article is more of an advertisement for Battlefield under Windows as opposed to any hope of ever seeing Battlefield under Linux.

Considering the date the article was released, it seems DICE aren't keen on putting their money where their mouth is?

As always, turn the thread into an unnecessary flame war regarding Linux vs Windows and it gets closed. Remember the forum you're in here.

https://www.polygon.com/2013/10/12/...ler-game-to-explode-says-battlefield-director
 
Nothing can make Linux do better as a desktop-class operating system in competition with Windows and macOS than it already does - after 26 years of being free since day one and still barely a nick in the overall usage (browser stats don't really count, folks, 'cause Android is based on Linux and that kinda flummoxes the entire idea of accuracy for those types of stats) it's just not going to change, really. If these devs are counting on a game to change it all and make it "explode" they really should find better jobs. :D
 
Tiberian said:
Nothing can make Linux do better as a desktop-class operating system in competition with Windows and macOS than it already does - after 26 years of being free since day one and still barely a nick in the overall usage (browser stats don't really count, folks, 'cause Android is based on Linux and that kinda flummoxes the entire idea of accuracy for those types of stats) it's just not going to change, really. If these devs are counting on a game to change it all and make it "explode" they really should find better jobs. :D
Click to expand...

Both macOS and Windows have marketing departments, Linux does not and growth has accelerated in the last ~3-4 years. No good dwelling in the past when the present is advancing faster than it ever did before.
 
Tiberian said:
Nothing can make Linux do better as a desktop-class operating system in competition with Windows and macOS than it already does - after 26 years of being free since day one and still barely a nick in the overall usage (browser stats don't really count, folks, 'cause Android is based on Linux and that kinda flummoxes the entire idea of accuracy for those types of stats) it's just not going to change, really. If these devs are counting on a game to change it all and make it "explode" they really should find better jobs. :D
Click to expand...

Android reports as Android so nothing is inflated. Android is also running Linux. GNU/Linux is the "desktop Linux" people think of. Linux is a kernel and yes Android runs it.

The point I believe he was making is... exclusive games sell systems. Linux doesn't have any exclusive games... and lets face it sure that isn't likely considering how much money goes into game development.

No Linux doesn't have a one punch knock out coming for windows anytime soon.... although If I was Microsoft I would be seriously worried about Sony and Google ever deciding to work together to go for the kill. If google really wanted to carve Windows and MS out of the landscape all they would have to do would be release a ChromeOS based gaming laptop with a Google/Sony game store, with PS4 exclusive content. If PS4 exclusive games started showing up on a ChromeOS gaming laptop MS would be in serious trouble really fast. (no that wouldn't be a win for GNU/Linux, but I think we all know how fast such a solution would erode windows market)
 
ChadD said:
Android reports as Android so nothing is inflated. Android is also running Linux. GNU/Linux is the "desktop Linux" people think of. Linux is a kernel and yes Android runs it.

The point I believe he was making is... exclusive games sell systems. Linux doesn't have any exclusive games... and lets face it sure that isn't likely considering how much money goes into game development.

No Linux doesn't have a one punch knock out coming for windows anytime soon.... although If I was Microsoft I would be seriously worried about Sony and Google ever deciding to work together to go for the kill. If google really wanted to carve Windows and MS out of the landscape all they would have to do would be release a ChromeOS based gaming laptop with a Google/Sony game store, with PS4 exclusive content. If PS4 exclusive games started showing up on a ChromeOS gaming laptop MS would be in serious trouble really fast. (no that wouldn't be a win for GNU/Linux, but I think we all know how fast such a solution would erode windows market)
Click to expand...
No DX, less interest for game development.
 
Archaea said:
No DX, less interest for game development.
Click to expand...

Your kidding right ? lol

You do understand that the majority of game developers don't start their work in DX right ? :) A great many (and PS4 exclusives 100% for sure) code their games using GNMX and PSSL. Many studios then use Sony tools to port GNMX to DX for their windows ports. Its why so many console games feel like they are crappy ports on windows. Cause they are ports. lol

If Sony partnered with Google... it wouldn't take them more then a few months work to hash out a ChromeOS with GNMX. GNMX and the PS4 run on a BSD kernel... adapting it to a ChromeOS Linux kernel and backend wouldn't really be all that big a project.

The last year or so Sony has been open sourcing a lot of stuff they used to protect even if it meant products would completely fail... for use in Android. If google does decide at some point to make a ChromeOS for full featured desktops and laptops... I would fully expect they would at least talk to Sony about the possibility of bringing GNMX and PS4 exclusives to "ChromePro" or whatever name they would give it.
 
BulletDust said:
As always, turn the thread into an unnecessary flame war regarding Linux vs Windows and it gets closed. Remember the forum you're in here.
Click to expand...
lol from you, really?! and 2013 wth?!
IF Linux came preloaded on systems so the unexperienced didn't have to learn it and the newest games just installed and worked then maybe that would build Linux's user base. but you know that isn't how Linux works.
 
pendragon1 said:
lol from you, really?! and 2013 wth?!
IF Linux came preloaded on systems so the unexperienced didn't have to learn it and the newest games just installed and worked then maybe that would build Linux's user base. but you know that isn't how Linux works.
Click to expand...

Obviously. was your post simply to attack me or is there some point to your rantings? If your post was simply to attack me - [Points to door].
 
BulletDust said:
We're aware of this, just an interesting point of discussion.
Click to expand...

Just making sure because the post is now more of a history lesson than a prognostication. As you and others have noted, many of the most popular games out there like Dota 2 and CS have Linux clients so if those "killer games" haven't moved the Linux gaming needle much then one must ask what exactly is this killer game supposed to be?

He makes a comparison to Halo and the Xbox which I believe is flawed analysis because Halo or any other platform exclusive isn't a killer game, it's a platform exclusive. The killer games for PCs would all come to Windows anyway and the market share isn't there to make a desktop Linux exclusive game at this point.
 
See, this is why the recent thread about "news" posts here (or anywhere but the actual News subforum) was somewhat relevant, I suppose. There's an agenda at work here and it's not directly because of or purposed towards Linux being a nice OS for some folks that choose to run it, there's a noticeable push that's happening with these types of threads and I know I'm not the only person that's picked up on it.

But whatever, my points above still stand as relevant and that's not going to change anytime soon for Linux as a desktop-class operating system, or even as a gaming-centric one either.

I wish Linux the best, really, I just happen to know the future so... :D
 
heatlesssun said:
Just making sure because the post is now more of a history lesson than a prognostication. As you and others have pointed, many of the most popular games out there like Dota 2 and CS have Linux clients so if those "killer games" haven't moved the Linux gaming needle much then one has to ask what exactly this killer game is supposed to be. He makes an comparison to Halo and the Xbox which I believe is flawed analysis because Halo or any other platform exclusive isn't a killer game, it's a platform exclusive. The killer games for PCs would all come to Windows anyway and the market share isn't there to make a desktop Linux exclusive game at this point.
Click to expand...

I find it interesting that a representative from DICE made such a claim in the first place and it's an interesting point of discussion considering it never happened.

If you feel the age of the article is an issue, feel free not to contribute to the thread? This is the Linux sub forum and you don't have to refute every point people make regarding gaming and Linux.
 
pendragon1 said:
lol from you, really?! and 2013 wth?!
IF Linux came preloaded on systems so the unexperienced didn't have to learn it and the newest games just installed and worked then maybe that would build Linux's user base. but you know that isn't how Linux works.
Click to expand...

I don't think Bullet or anyone else every claimed otherwise.

GNU/Linux not shipping pre installed on average joes machines is indeed exactly why it hasn't removed the windows stain.

Linux does come preinstalled on peoples mobile hardware and it has ruled. At this point MS years of shady OEM squeezing have kept them in the game. The issue for the desktop market has always been that there isn't one massive Linux marketing dept that is willing to buy off, Sue, or force BS contract wording on the major OEMs.

That is changing slowly... of course the idea that there would ever be a one hit game or app that would get average people to figure out how to install a OS no matter how easy it is these days is unlikely. And yes that article is getting a bit old now... the general premise though is still valid. As I have already stated I do imagine a company like Google could pretty easily make a gaming version of ChromeOS partnering either with Valve (and adding their weight to the push to get developers to go cross platform) or doing something a bit less expected like partnering with Sony. The Sony route is interesting given the article the thread is about... as it would give a Linux desktop os instant access to actual exclusive content no on windows.
 
heatlesssun said:
Just making sure because the post is now more of a history lesson than a prognostication. As you and others have noted, many of the most popular games out there like Dota 2 and CS have Linux clients so if those "killer games" haven't moved the Linux gaming needle much then one must ask what exactly is this killer game supposed to be?

He makes a comparison to Halo and the Xbox which I believe is flawed analysis because Halo or any other platform exclusive isn't a killer game, it's a platform exclusive. The killer games for PCs would all come to Windows anyway and the market share isn't there to make a desktop Linux exclusive game at this point.
Click to expand...

Those games are not exclusive. Dota 2 does run best in Linux... but it still runs very well in windows. If Valve was to release the DOTA 3 on Linux only would it move the needle ? I think it would... perhaps we are not talking windows destruction overnight. But does Linux move up from 2-3% to 10% within a few months. Considering there are always a million people playing DOTA 2 at any one time... I have a feeling it would.
 
Tiberian said:
See, this is why the recent thread about "news" posts here (or anywhere but the actual News subforum) was somewhat relevant, I suppose. There's an agenda at work here and it's not directly because of or purposed towards Linux being a nice OS for some folks that choose to run it, there's a noticeable push that's happening with these types of threads and I know I'm not the only person that's picked up on it.

But whatever, my points above still stand as relevant and that's not going to change anytime soon for Linux as a desktop-class operating system, or even as a gaming-centric one either.

I wish Linux the best, really, I just happen to know the future so... :D
Click to expand...

We've discussed the necessity of news threads in the Linux subforum and the consensus was that they were perfectly acceptable. If you're cynical regarding Linux news posts in the Linux subforum, you're free not to participate in them?

Not interested in bickering with you TBH.
 
You really seriously need to get off that high horse and immediately telling people "Don't like it, get out of my thread...", you truly do, you're not helping the threads you create with such actions, you're not helping your position or that of Linux in general and you're festering the concept of Linux and people that use it being a bunch of outsiders that really don't want anyone else in their club.

I'm going to say that I more than likely have no intentions of ever participating in a thread you create in the future but I won't commit to such a thing.

Linux is just fine on its own with the nick of market share it's holding onto and these threads and "news" are out there for those folks interested in Linux to see and find, obviously. One would think that people seriously interested in Linux already know all this anyway without having to dredge up online articles that are several years old.

Seems like anytime anyone ever offers a counterpoint or another point of view it's bickering and they should just shut up, leave the threads, or not get involved in the first place - that's not really a good thing considering the stifling attitude surrounding it but I'll let it go. It's a forum for all members to participate in, there's only some specific areas that are walled off for good reasons (pay to post, etc) so, don't get hung up on the idea that this particular subforum for Linux discussion by anybody that chooses to participate and not just a few that think otherwise.

As for a consensus, I don't see it, nor did I see a poll asking it but I'll bet you there's going to be one soon. ;)

Will I get in trouble for this post? I'm almost certain of it but that's how it goes sometimes... I already know what's going to be posted as a response, most of us do come to think of it.
 
Tiberian said:
You really seriously need to get off that high horse and immediately telling people "Don't like it, get out of my thread...", you truly do, you're not helping the threads you create with such actions, you're not helping your position or that of Linux in general and you're festering the concept of Linux and people that use it being a bunch of outsiders that really don't want anyone else in their club.

I'm going to say that I more than likely have no intentions of ever participating in a thread you create in the future but I won't commit to such a thing.

Linux is just fine on its own with the nick of market share it's holding onto and these threads and "news" are out there for those folks interested in Linux to see and find, obviously. One would think that people seriously interested in Linux already know all this anyway without having to dredge up online articles that are several years old.

Seems like anytime anyone ever offers a counterpoint or another point of view it's bickering and they should just shut up, leave the threads, or not get involved in the first place - that's not really a good thing considering the stifling attitude surrounding it but I'll let it go. It's a forum for all members to participate in, there's only some specific areas that are walled off for good reasons (pay to post, etc) so, don't get hung up on the idea that this particular subforum for Linux discussion by anybody that chooses to participate and not just a few that think otherwise.

As for a consensus, I don't see it, nor did I see a poll asking it but I'll bet you there's going to be one soon. ;)

Will I get in trouble for this post? I'm almost certain of it but that's how it goes sometimes... I already know what's going to be posted as a response, most of us do come to think of it.
Click to expand...

Well, there's one opinion and you're entitled to it.

It is quite obvious that you're more interested in attacking me as opposed to adding anything meaningful to the thread beyond your cynicism - Hence the reason for my pointing to the door.
 
BulletDust said:
Well, there's one opinion and you're entitled to it.

It is quite obvious that you're more interested in attacking me as opposed to adding anything meaningful to the thread beyond your cynicism - Hence the reason for my pointing to the door.
Click to expand...
You pointed to the door in the op, before anyone ever replied :rolleyes:.
 
GoldenTiger said:
You pointed to the door in the op, before anyone ever replied :rolleyes:.
Click to expand...

If stating that unnecessary flamewars regarding Linux vs Windows will result in thread closure is showing anyone the door before they reply than obviously the intent was real.

Once again, anything meaningful to post beyond needlessly attacking me?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
ChadD said:
Those games are not exclusive. Dota 2 does run best in Linux... but it still runs very well in windows. If Valve was to release the DOTA 3 on Linux only would it move the needle ? I think it would... perhaps we are not talking windows destruction overnight. But does Linux move up from 2-3% to 10% within a few months. Considering there are always a million people playing DOTA 2 at any one time... I have a feeling it would.
Click to expand...

My point is that top tier desktop Linux exclusives might help with Linux gaming adoption but at HUGE expense to developers by ignoring 99% (counting macOS as well) of the PC gaming market so not going to happen. It wouldn't make financial sense even for Valve.
 
BulletDust said:
If stating that unnecessary flamewars regarding Linux vs Windows will result in thread closure is showing anyone the door before they reply than obviously the intent was real.

Once again, anything meaningful to post beyond needlessly attacking me?
Click to expand...
Uh, I didn't personally attack you. Try again and address what I wrote? It's true.
 
BulletDust said:
If you feel the age of the article is an issue, feel free not to contribute to the thread? This is the Linux sub forum and you don't have to refute every point people make regarding gaming and Linux.
Click to expand...

I wasn't refuting the main point, I was just wondering what exactly this killer game is supposed to be if as you and some say, the major games are already available for Linux. History seems to have refuted the point of this four year blog.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Uh, I didn't personally attack you. Try again and address what I wrote? It's true.
Click to expand...

I addressed what you wrote, if you don't like me making such a claim and you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the thread topic what are you doing here? You're not going to successfully change my opinion on stating in the opening thread that unnecessary flame wars regarding Linux vs Windows will result in thread closure. There's no point keeping the thread running if all certain users can do is attack as opposed to discussing the topic of the OP - And they very much attack, no matter what you want to claim, as opposed to considering valid and reasonable points of view.

This is not a discussion about myself, contribute as per the topic of the discussion or what are you doing here?
 
heatlesssun said:
I wasn't refuting the main point, I was just wondering what exactly this killer game is supposed to be if as you and some say, the major games are already available for Linux. History seems to have refuted the point of this four year blog.
Click to expand...

An exclusive release of HL3 for at least 12 months would be the icing on the cake. Sadly we have about as much of a chance of that as unicorns running for government.
 
heatlesssun said:
My point is that top tier desktop Linux exclusives might help with Linux gaming adoption but at HUGE expense to developers by ignoring 99% (counting macOS as well) of the PC gaming market so not going to happen. It wouldn't make financial sense even for Valve.
Click to expand...

There is always lost opportunity when a developer goes exclusive. Which is why they rarely do it for free. So ya I am not suggesting Valve or anyone else will make a Linux exclusive anytime soon. There isn't one big house willing to pay for it like there is in the console space.

You simply made some silly statement that if Linux hasn't hit it yet with all these popular Linux games it won't... completely glossing over the fact that they are NOT exclusive titles which is what this article was talking about. If Linux had exclusives and people would rather forget about them then switch or run 2 systems much like I do with windows exclusives then you would have a point worth reading.

In any even this article is interesting but yes no one is really suggesting today there is an exclusive GNU/Linux game comping that is going to make gamers droll and want to switch. As I have pointed out though their some possible windows killers out there if specific companies decide the market is ripe. GNU/Linux isn't likely ever going to topple Windows Alone.... Google-Sony/Linux though if it ever happens, I would expect could remove windows almost completely fast enough to make MS shareholders jump out windows. lol ;)
 
BulletDust said:
An exclusive release of HL3 for at least 12 months would be the icing on the cake. Sadly we have about as much of a chance of that as unicorns running for government.
Click to expand...

This simply isn't economically feasible, especially adding in consoles.
 
ChadD said:
You simply made some silly statement that if Linux hasn't hit it yet with all these popular Linux games it won't...
Click to expand...

I was the one that pointed this very flaw in the original OP. It's not that Halo was killer, it was exclusive. It's not economically possible to leverage an exclusive the same way for desktop Linux. Even if Valve did eat the cost, all they would be doing is losing money with nothing else to make money on, they make no money for Linux or Steam Machines. So without a killer exclusive, it doesn't matter. Windows and other platforms will get all of the killer games and generally before Linux.
 
BulletDust said:
I don't believe any of us know just what is and isn't economically feasible.
Click to expand...

Considering that 99% of PC gamers aren't on Linux according to Steam, a big budget Linux exclusive isn't economically feasible. It's rare for Windows to get AAA exclusives counting consoles so it's obviously not going to happen for Linux without tons more market share.
 
heatlesssun said:
Considering that 99% of PC gamers aren't on Linux according to Steam, a big budget Linux exclusive isn't economically feasible. It's rare for Windows to get AAA exclusives counting consoles so it's obviously not going to happen for Linux without tons more market share.
Click to expand...

The fact is, you know about as much as I do when it comes to what is economically feasible for a developer regarding Linux.

If tech development was solely based on what's economically feasible, we'd still all be using Commodore 64's and VR would still be in the realm of NASA.
 
heatlesssun said:
I was the one that pointed this very flaw in the original OP. It's not that Halo was killer, it was exclusive. It's not economically possible to leverage an exclusive the same way for desktop Linux. Even if Valve did eat the cost, all they would be doing is losing money with nothing else to make money on, they make no money for Linux or Steam Machines. So without a killer exclusive, it doesn't matter. Windows and other platforms will get all of the killer games and generally before Linux.
Click to expand...
It's a parallel, but they did leverage HL2 as an exclusive to push Steam. I clearly remember how that was going to flop because everyone had to have physical copies so that when Valve went under they could still access the games they purchased. Granted it was a different time with a different gaming landscape.

I also wouldn't predict them to try it until they had a much firmer target and reason to shake things up. Performance needs to come up a bit, cross platform tools (and delivered projects) need to mature, Microsoft needs to push their Store harder... I think with the right timing, wrench turning, and business threat, Valve could be pushed to line up an exclusive to relaunch SteamOS/SteamMachines. After all this time I wouldn't see them blowing their HL3 wad until they could get some amazing combination together such as VR on SteamOS and have a boot on their throat in some business sense. HL3 has too much Duke Nukem/Daikatana style contamination. If anything, I'd more expect a new IP just to help with market acceptance.

However, since we're hopping on the wayback machine to 2013, there was also a statement that they would not do exclusives for SteamOS. I bet they still hold the core sentiment even though a lot of time (relative to computing) has passed.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/04/valve-will-not-make-exclusive-games-for-steamos
 
BulletDust said:
The fact is, you know about as much as I do when it comes to what is economically feasible for a developer regarding Linux.
Click to expand...

Missing out on 99% of the customers that buy PC games is exactly how any developer is going to see the economic feasibility of a Linux exclusive.
 
Frobozz said:
It's a parallel, but they did leverage HL2 as an exclusive to push Steam. I clearly remember how that was going to flop because everyone had to have physical copies so that when Valve went under they could still access the games they purchased. Granted it was a different time with a different gaming landscape.
Click to expand...

It's one thing to install a Steam client to play games and something else entirely to install an OS that probably doesn't even run most of the games you already have to play an exclusive. That can work in the console space but trying to build that up in the context of PC gaming would be confusing and totally self-defeating if the point is to actually sell copies of a game.

Frobozz said:
I also wouldn't predict them to try it until they had a much firmer target and reason to shake things up. Performance needs to come up a bit, cross platform tools (and delivered projects) need to mature, Microsoft needs to push their Store harder... I think with the right timing, wrench turning, and business threat, Valve could be pushed to line up an exclusive to relaunch SteamOS/SteamMachines. After all this time I wouldn't see them blowing their HL3 wad until they could get some amazing combination together such as VR on SteamOS and have a boot on their throat in some business sense. HL3 has too much Duke Nukem/Daikatana style contamination. If anything, I'd more expect a new IP just to help with market acceptance.
Click to expand...

At this point, you're right about HL3 being too much Duke Nukem/Daikatana. It's been so long the expectations would be incredibly high. Tying HL3 into VR as a Linux exclusive? That's pretty much pointless there's literally no customers there.
 
heatlesssun said:
Missing out on 99% of the customers that buy PC games is exactly how any developer is going to see the economic feasibility of a Linux exclusive.
Click to expand...

The market pertaining to a $2500.00 6950X or $1000.00+ Vive headset is also comparably small, yet such technology exists.

Developers are making/porting games for Linux so obviously they see something beyond what you believe to be feasible.
 
Last edited:
BulletDust said:
The market pertaining to a $2500.00 6950X or $1000.00+ Vive headset is also comparably small, yet such technology exists.
Click to expand...

But these things aren't Linux exclusives.

BulletDust said:
Developers are making/porting games for Linux so obviously they see something beyond what you believe to be feasible.
Click to expand...

Yes some developers are making Linux games. The point is that given desktop Linux's current market share, none of these same developers are making Linux exclusives.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top