Linux only needs one 'killer' game to explode, says Battlefield director

[heatlesssun]

Obviously the point is to increase customer base.

No one is going to make a Linux exclusive VR title anytime soon because who would buy it?

 

[Deleted member 245375]

I meant to say this in an earlier post (the 1st one I made, post #2 in thread) but I got sidetracked by a phone call mid-thought but it just popped back into my head so:

The one killer thing about Linux that's been part of it the entire time since even before day 1 when Linus announced his pet project to the still somewhat limited "online" world should have been the one thing that Linux has always needed:

It's completely free of any out of pocket financial costs or considerations.

I was actually one of the first 100 people or so that got wind of it, been using Usenet since the earliest days when people actually used it for discussions, like this one, go figure, and there were less than maybe 800 newsgroups total but I never fully got into Linux (and by fully I mean grabbing the code and giving it a machine to work on) didn't happen till Debian first appeared.

Having said that, if being free of out of pocket cost aka "the free beer" thing that gets tossed around so much with respect to Linux and open source software as well was "free as in truly free" software too still isn't enough to get the masses to use it then nothing really will. I made a joke in the recent past that goes something like this:

If tomorrow Microsoft announced they were quitting the Windows business, all projects, all development, all of it stopped by 5PM Tuesday Pacific time on July 25 2017, and then on the next day they announced they were giving everybody that wanted one a nicely configured laptop with Ubuntu on it (gotta cater to the lowest common denominator and Ubuntu is the most popular Linux distro ever, DistroWatch ratings be damned) and even provide some level of support for end users if they need it free of charge by toll free calls, and then on top of all that they actually would ship them to those people that wanted them free of charge too, overnight, what would that mean for Linux overall?

It would mean the browser stats would spike for a few days but then it would tank fast as people wanted to switch back to Windows as fast as someone could insert a USB stick with the Windows installation files on it and reboot from that stick.

Sure it's a bit over the top but, after having witnessed the ups (incredibly rare but Android is helping, so is Ubuntu like it or not) and mostly the downs (it's Linux, come on) I cannot be optimistic about anything other than Linux will survive. I don't believe it will ever truly thrive and seriously grow or dare I say it "explode" but, it will damned sure survive.

And that's all I have to say about it so I'll be moving on now.

 

[KarsusTG]

I meant to say this in an earlier post (the 1st one I made, post #2 in thread) but I got sidetracked by a phone call mid-thought but it just popped back into my head so:

The one killer thing about Linux that's been part of it the entire time since even before day 1 when Linus announced his pet project to the still somewhat limited "online" world should have been the one thing that Linux has always needed:

It's completely free of any out of pocket financial costs or considerations.

I was actually one of the first 100 people or so that got wind of it, been using Usenet since the earliest days when people actually used it for discussions, like this one, go figure, and there were less than maybe 800 newsgroups total but I never fully got into Linux (and by fully I mean grabbing the code and giving it a machine to work on) didn't happen till Debian first appeared.

Having said that, if being free of out of pocket cost aka "the free beer" thing that gets tossed around so much with respect to Linux and open source software as well was "free as in truly free" software too still isn't enough to get the masses to use it then nothing really will. I made a joke in the recent past that goes something like this:

If tomorrow Microsoft announced they were quitting the Windows business, all projects, all development, all of it stopped by 5PM Tuesday Pacific time on July 25 2017, and then on the next day they announced they were giving everybody that wanted one a nicely configured laptop with Ubuntu on it (gotta cater to the lowest common denominator and Ubuntu is the most popular Linux distro ever, DistroWatch ratings be damned) and even provide some level of support for end users if they need it free of charge by toll free calls, and then on top of all that they actually would ship them to those people that wanted them free of charge too, overnight, what would that mean for Linux overall?

It would mean the browser stats would spike for a few days but then it would tank fast as people wanted to switch back to Windows as fast as someone could insert a USB stick with the Windows installation files on it and reboot from that stick.

Sure it's a bit over the top but, after having witnessed the ups (incredibly rare but Android is helping, so is Ubuntu like it or not) and mostly the downs (it's Linux, come on) I cannot be optimistic about anything other than Linux will survive. I don't believe it will ever truly thrive and seriously grow or dare I say it "explode" but, it will damned sure survive.

And that's all I have to say about it so I'll be moving on now.

I love linux, it's my DD and I avoid Windows as much as possible. But both have there places and nothing is free. The price you pay with Linux is you have to be willing to walk away from the safety of the "it will probably just work" windows provides and sometimes, every once in a while, need to actually use some grey matter between your ears.

That being said, I don't know if a killer game would be the answer. Certainly the move from D3D as the defacto standard for games and software would be a good first step.

 

[BulletDust]

A killer game would by no means turn Linux into the gaming platform of choice overnight, that much is blatantly obvious. But as far as increasing awareness of the OS? I definitely believe it would be a move in the right direction. I also agree that a move from D3D would benefit PC gaming with little to no negatives.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

The price you pay with Linux is you have to be willing to walk away from the safety of the "it will probably just work" windows provides and sometimes, every once in a while, need to actually use some grey matter between your ears.

Did you just assume my intelligence?

Sorry, again, just too easy a target to let it slip by without firing a shot at it.

And I'm well aware of what it takes to get Linux - and by that we should all understand the nomenclature I suppose so for me it means "a computer operating software distribution made up of the Linux kernel as well as a large amount of supporting software the end user needs to make actual use of it, commonly referred to as "a Linux distro" - up and running and what's required for maintenance as required.

Now the important question: are we going need a poll to create a consensus to the effect that by saying "I use Linux" that person making that claim or statement means what I just explained?

As for the Direct3D thing, isn't that what Vulkan is supposed to be bringing into the big scheme of all things gaming on the Linux side as well as most every other currently in use computer operating system platform, or did I miss something?

 

[ChadD]

Yes some developers are making Linux games. The point is that given desktop Linux's current market share, none of these same developers are making Linux exclusives.

Linux exclusives ? I'm sure you mean to say no one is making windows exclusives.

Cross platform is the future... the only reason to make anything exclusive is to sell something else (hardware). For that you need hardware to sell and someone who profits by its sale. The only company that would be willing to pay for a developer to go windows exclusive is MS... and they don't really care about PC gaming if they are being honest.

I have no idea why you always have to argue haha.... yes we get it you hate Linux that is fine. Bullet didn't link the article to talk about how much we hate windows or linux. Its an interesting conversation point. Valve didn't do exclusives to try and push steam machines no... and no developer is getting paid by Suse or Red Hate or Ubuntu to do exclusives either. No exclusive in the world even a Witcher 4 or something would get millions who wouldn't be capable of installing windows to install Linux.

Still its an interesting conversation... perhaps down the road it would make sense for Valve to relaunch a steamos or back a wider play by Ubuntu or something. Or perhaps Google decides to get into the game market. Exclusives are lost $$$ to developers in sales so they require big pay outs.... its why MS has lost the console war after all.. they have lost the stomach for loosing money spending it on exclusive deals. MS xoxoxoxo console is going to fall completely flat cause it has no compelling reason for anyone to buy as far as software goes. Its another reason I believe Google may jump into the gaming market at some point... MS has spent their wad fighting Sony on the console front. If google where to make it a war on the MS home front I'm not sure they would be wise enough to outspend google before it was to late for them.

 

[chenw]

Have UN declare that using DirectX or OpenGL is a crime against humanity, and force everyone to run on Vulkan.

That should help with ports.

In all seriousness though, the age of a "killer" app no longer exist. Virtual machines and emulators, as well as hardware, are powerful enough that one could easily run on an app in an enclosed machine in a machine, but still have the end user use whatever s/he was using originally.

Consoles might have killer apps (Horizon Zero Dawn is probably PS4's closest), because they are in an entirely closed system, but with Linux, unless exposure to Linux is your main goal, being able to run linux VMs might actually hurt its market share growth.

Also, IMHO, Linux is too fragmented, they need to unify at least some of the distros into one big distro to directly compete against Windows/MacOS, and not against each other.

 

[BulletDust]

Also, IMHO, Linux is too fragmented, they need to unify at least some of the distros into one big distro to directly compete against Windows/MacOS, and not against each other.

That's pretty much the point of SteamOS considering it's based around Debian. SteamOS/Ubuntu is pretty much the supported platform on behalf of developers, if you get things running under differing distro's all the power to you. Having said that I don't see many having issues running games under alternate distro's and I don't really get the feeling the distro's are competing against one another as such?

The problem with console exclusives is that they cost the consumer money as they have to buy into an alternate platform in order to play an exclusive title, obviously something that isn't an issue under Linux considering the fact that it's free.

 

[heatlesssun]

yes we get it you hate Linux that is fine.

No, I just don't love it enough to go around looking for ancient posts to make some point that clearly never happened.

 

[Simmonz]

Linux would get a lot of new users if the bigger games such as Battlefield, COD, mass Effect, Far Cry, etc came over but I don't see that happening. They are all made by publicly traded companies whose sharehodlers will likely never see it as a worthy use of company dollars to make Linux ports. Doesn't matter if it is true or correct, that's how they will likely see it. Most of them don't even play games let alone use Linux. I don't think Linux needs exclusives but more big games would help. Linux is progressing slowly but surely, constantly getting better. Small strides are still strides. One thing we can count on is Microsoft continuing to alienate users and piss people off so hopefully they continue to consider a jump to Linux and some might actually follow through.

What Valve could do is start paying AAA studio s to port their game to Linux or give them a price break on their cut of a Steam sale for doing so. It is a slipper and dark road in doing so but would help us get more AAA games on Linux.

 

[B00nie]

Why is Toyota the most popular car in many countries? Not because better alternatives weren't around. It's simple reliable and doesn't raise jealousness. So the mindless masses buy Toyota even though it's the most boring thing to do.

 

[KarsusTG]

The simple fact is the majority of desktop users are not gamers, which is why I said not just the games, but software in general. Switching to OpenGL/Vulcan would be a great first step.

Another great step would be breaking the MS Office monopoly. Seriously, I use Libre for college level work and office work all the damn time and nobody is the wiser. That is already far and above 98% of the userbases office requirements. At this point it is more out of habit than any actual need for the majority.

 

[heatlesssun]

Linux would get a lot of new users if the bigger games such as Battlefield, COD, mass Effect, Far Cry, etc came over but I don't see that happening. They are all made by publicly traded companies whose sharehodlers will likely never see it as a worthy use of company dollars to make Linux ports. Doesn't matter if it is true or correct, that's how they will likely see it. Most of them don't even play games let alone use Linux. I don't think Linux needs exclusives but more big games would help. Linux is progressing slowly but surely, constantly getting better. Small strides are still strides. One thing we can count on is Microsoft continuing to alienate users and piss people off so hopefully they continue to consider a jump to Linux and some might actually follow through.

There really is no such thing as the "killer app". What makes a great app platform is a lot of good apps. Tracking Linux this year on Steam, well, the numbers aren't exactly mind blowing. Year to date, Linux is getting around 20% of all games coming to Steam, that number drops off to about 16% when VR titles are added in. macOS is at 30% and 25% respectively. Linux is currently well off the pace of even macOS. Of course not every gamer plays every game but the lack of choice is simply going to be a problem for many gamers.

 

[heatlesssun]

Another great step would be breaking the MS Office monopoly. Seriously, I use Libre for college level work and office work all the damn time and nobody is the wiser. That is already far and above 98% of the userbases office requirements. At this point it is more out of habit than any actual need for the majority.

I have LibreOffice installed on my main devices along with Office 2016/O365. This subject just gets complicated. It's very easy to create simple MS Office documents that just don't format the same. Like WordArt. Then there's things like 2 in 1s and touch where LibreOffice simply doesn't support touch properly. And Microsoft is adding all kinds of new features to Office these days.

So sure, there's plenty of people that could use LibreOffice but then there's plenty that can't and it have nothing to do with file formats, just the differences in functionality.

 

[B00nie]

I have LibreOffice installed on my main devices along with Office 2016/O365. This subject just gets complicated. It's very easy to create simple MS Office documents that just don't format the same. Like WordArt. Then there's things like 2 in 1s and touch where LibreOffice simply doesn't support touch properly. And Microsoft is adding all kinds of new features to Office these days.

So sure, there's plenty of people that could use LibreOffice but then there's plenty that can't and it have nothing to do with file formats, just the differences in functionality.

There's absolutely nothing in Office that would make it necessary. Some trivial functions do not make the open solutions unusable. The only problems arise when clueless people use Office instead of opting for the free ones.

Touch for example, I have never seen anyone use that function and I'm hard pressed to imagine where it would even be useful.

 

[BulletDust]

No, I just don't love it enough to go around looking for ancient posts to make some point that clearly never happened.

If the topic presents you with such obvious distaste, you can always bear in mind that no one's forcing you to participate in this thread and you can go sing the praises of MS to the wall if you like?

 

[heatlesssun]

If the topic presents you with such obvious distaste, you can always bear in mind that no one's forcing you to participate in this thread and you can go sing the praises of MS to the wall if you like?

I was just noting that digging up a four year old post about Linux gaming that's pretty much ended up not happening to this point, that's singing praises. The reason I'm in this thread is I was curious about what others thought this "killer game" is supposed to be considering that a number of the most popular PC games do have Linux titles and Linux gaming hasn't "exploded" four years after this post was written. Well, maybe it's exploded for Linux gamers, not so much for Windows or console gamers.

 

[BulletDust]

I was just noting that digging up a four year old post about Linux gaming that's pretty much ended up not happening to this point, that's singing praises. The reason I'm in this thread is I was curious about what others thought this "killer game" is supposed to be considering that a number of the most popular PC games do have Linux titles and Linux gaming hasn't "exploded" four years after this post was written. Well, maybe it's exploded for Linux gamers, not so much for Windows or console gamers.

Point noted, no one cares, moving on...

 

[KarsusTG]

I have LibreOffice installed on my main devices along with Office 2016/O365. This subject just gets complicated. It's very easy to create simple MS Office documents that just don't format the same. Like WordArt. Then there's things like 2 in 1s and touch where LibreOffice simply doesn't support touch properly. And Microsoft is adding all kinds of new features to Office these days.

So sure, there's plenty of people that could use LibreOffice but then there's plenty that can't and it have nothing to do with file formats, just the differences in functionality.

I am not sure you could hold 2 in 1s up as a legitimate requirement. That basically covers the Microsoft surface and a virtually non existent list of others. Touch however I have to agree with you on. Like sound, touch is just one of those things that Linux just fucking sucks at.

Word Art I cant speak to. I know it works in Impress, I have not tried it in Writer in a LOOOONG time. I just don't have much need for that in pro/semi pro documents.

Has anyone tried SSuite or WPS Office? More curious than anything.

 

[skiddierow]

If a game like PUBG was Linux exclusive I could see it.

 

[heatlesssun]

I am not sure you could hold 2 in 1s up as a legitimate requirement. That basically covers the Microsoft surface and a virtually non existent list of others. Touch however I have to agree with you on. Like sound, touch is just one of those things that Linux just fucking sucks at.

2 in 1s are about the only area in PCs with any growth these days: http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-company-computer-may-be-a-2-in-1-laptop.html. Dell stopped making Android tablets to focus on Windows 2 in 1s and saw a 48% in sales in Q1 2017. These devices are without question now an important part of the PC mix and are expected to see healthy sales growth for some years to come. So whatever the case is with Linux not being capable with this kind of hardware isn't a good thing.

Word Art I cant speak to. I know it works in Impress, I have not tried it in Writer in a LOOOONG time. I just don't have much need for that in pro/semi pro documents.

Just tried to open a .docx file in Impress and it opened up Writer.

Has anyone tried SSuite or WPS Office? More curious than anything.

I was running WPS on my Surface Book for a while but the updater got annoying and I wasn't using it enough. Seemed pretty solid overall.

 

[heatlesssun]

If a game like PUBG was Linux exclusive I could see it.

Unless someone paid the developer there's nothing in it for the developer to essentially make a game for no one. And even if a developer were to make such a deal they'd still be losing out on tons of cash with a game like this.

 

[skiddierow]

Unless someone paid the developer there's nothing in it for the developer to essentially make a game for no one. And even if a developer were to make such a deal they'd still be losing out on tons of cash with a game like this.

I agree it's not really a rational business decision.

But, a game with that kinda buzz can get people jumping through hoops to play it.

 

[KarsusTG]

2 in 1s are about the only area in PCs with any growth these days: http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-company-computer-may-be-a-2-in-1-laptop.html. Dell stopped making Android tablets to focus on Windows 2 in 1s and saw a 48% in sales in Q1 2017. These devices are without question now an important part of the PC mix and are expected to see healthy sales growth for some years to come. So whatever the case is with Linux not being capable with this kind of hardware isn't a good thing.

Hmm, I have not seen that but I can believe it with some of the newer technology coming out. I wonder if it is just eating the tablet market or if there is legitimate growth.

Just tried to open a .docx file in Impress and it opened up Writer.

That is exactly what is supposed to happen... Writer is word and Impress is Power Point.

I was running WPS on my Surface Book for a while but the updater got annoying and I wasn't using it enough. Seemed pretty solid overall.

Nice. I had wondered about it for trial on some older hardware.

 

[heatlesssun]

I agree it's not really a rational business decision.

But, a game with that kinda buzz can get people jumping through hoops to play it.

The problem though it would have been MUCH harder to generate the same buzz with this kind of title being a Linux exclusive. It's sold 5 million copies across Windows, Xbox and PS. That would have never happened as a Linux exclusive and far fewer people would be playing. It's a class chicken/egg dilemma.

 

[BulletDust]

I've used WPS under Linux, works great for the most part and you can swap files between WPS and Libreoffice without issue using .docx.

I keep WPS installed just in case, however Libreoffice does everything I need out of an office suite in a professional environment so as yet I haven't had to use WPS Office.

And I see no reason whatsoever why a game such as HL3 exclusive to Linux for at least 6 to 12 months wouldn't generate copious amounts of buzz.

 

[heatlesssun]

Hmm, I have not seen that but I can believe it with some of the newer technology coming out. I wonder if it is just eating the tablet market or if there is legitimate growth.

Part of it certainly is tablets not hitting their productivity stride and part of it is some moving from a conventional laptop to a 2 in 1. I get asked about 2 in 1s a lot these days. The biggest issue is the cost of the nicer ones that hold a lot of consumer back.

That is exactly what is supposed to happen... Writer is word and Impress is Power Point.

Sure, but the WordArt I was trying out was in a Word document. The document opened fined and the text came through, just not the WordArt fonts in Writer. I was just a simple one page document I created as a flyer for my mothers birthday. This is just a tricky subject especially if you deal with a lot of MS Office documents. I've been running some open source office suite side by side with the current version of MS Office for a lot of years. I've never said that something like LibreOffice is bad or can't work for some people but MS Office is extremely featured and powerful and not necessarily easy to replace for everyone.

 

[BulletDust]

Sure, but the WordArt I was trying out was in a Word document. The document opened fined and the text came through, just not the WordArt fonts in Writer. I was just a simple one page document I created as a flyer for my mothers birthday. This is just a tricky subject especially if you deal with a lot of MS Office documents. I've been running some open source office suite side by side with the current version of MS Office for a lot of years. I've never said that something like LibreOffice is bad or can't work for some people but MS Office is extremely featured and powerful and not necessarily easy to replace for everyone.

I don't think WordArt is necessarily a priority considering alternate Office suites and there's plenty of applications that could perform the same task that are more suited to the job at hand.

2 in 1's are being pushed by MS in place of conventional laptops, they're not always ideal or practical and I see very few people using them as touch devices, their primary usage scenario appears to be that of a top heavy conventional laptop with limited connectability. Give me a slightly older Thinkpad any day.

 

[heatlesssun]

And I see no reason whatsoever why a game such as HL3 exclusive to Linux for at least 6 to 12 months wouldn't generate copious amounts of buzz.

Something well known like HL sure. But that would still only be one game, if HL3 were the game you were going to play no interest in other AAA games it would work. But something like that could easily backfire with a game that Valve simply gave up on unless it were really, really good. And freezing out 99% of PC and all console gamers for a year? A lot of those folks after a year might not be so interested in the game and that could easily be more lost sales than you make on desktop Linux.

Trying to push a platform via exclusives with the market share of desktop Linux in gaming, a lot can go wrong and it's guaranteed to hurt sales.

 

[skiddierow]

The problem though it would have been MUCH harder to generate the same buzz with this kind of title being a Linux exclusive. It's sold 5 million copies across Windows, Xbox and PS. That would have never happened as a Linux exclusive and far fewer people would be playing. It's a class chicken/egg dilemma.

It is much harder, but not impossible.

Xbox sold millions from zero on an unknown IP.

Nowadays, the right person live streaming a game you simply can't play elsewhere can shake up a lot.

 

[BulletDust]

Something well known like HL sure. But that would still only be one game, if HL3 were the game you were going to play no interest in other AAA games it would work. But something like that could easily backfire with a game that Valve simply gave up on unless it were really, really good. And freezing out 99% of PC and all console gamers for a year? A lot of those folks after a year might not be so interested in the game and that could easily be more lost sales than you make on desktop Linux.

Trying to push a platform via exclusives with the market share of desktop Linux in gaming, a lot can go wrong and it's guaranteed to hurt sales.

I don't see any possibility of a HL3 exclusive having any negative effect on Linux gaming.

 

[heatlesssun]

It is much harder, but not impossible.

Xbox sold millions from zero on an unknown IP.

Nowadays, the right person live streaming a game you simply can't play elsewhere can shake up a lot.

If Valve had wanted to do this with Steam Machines they could have. I guess there's no reason they couldn't do it now. But Valve is so hooked on the easy money of digital sales that I don't see them forgoing that to promote a platform where they make zero dollars.

 

[BulletDust]

If Valve had wanted to do this with Steam Machines they could have. I guess there's no reason they couldn't do it now. But Valve is so hooked on the easy money of digital sales that I don't see them forgoing that to promote a platform where they make zero dollars.

You're privy to Valve's financials?

 

[heatlesssun]

I don't see any possibility of a HL3 exclusive having any negative effect on Linux gaming.

It certainly would have a negative effect on Valve to use a valuable IP to promote a platform where they make no money to give up money on software sales where they make all of they money. Unless there goal was to create a proprietary platform where they did make some money which is what they say they aren't interested in.

 

[heatlesssun]

You're privy to Valve's financials?

How does Valve make money on a game that 99% of Steam users can't run?

 

[BulletDust]

It certainly would have a negative effect on Valve to use a valuable IP to promote a platform where they make no money to give up money on software sales where they make all of they money. Unless there goal was to create a proprietary platform where they did make some money which is what they say they aren't interested in.

How can Valve make no additional money out out an additional 200,000 users that we know of considering the paranoia of the average Linux user and survey's?

Lets just keep the vast generalisations out of this discussion and stick to the facts, the fact is you have no idea how much Valve makes or loses regarding Linux users. The idea of a HL3 exclusive is to generate awareness, I'm sure 6 months won't kill Valve.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

"We're going to make an electric semi, but we're only ever going to sell it to businesses based in North Dakota, because fuck revenue!" -anyone advocating for 'Linux-exclusive' games ever.

We've been down this road with Linux gaming- the best that can be hoped for- the very best- is for engine devs to build with SteamOS (err Ubuntu) support in mind so that developers who wish to also release for desktop Linux (GNU/Linux) can do so without having to wrap APIs or whole game executables, so that native performance may be achievable.

And that's happening.

 

[BulletDust]

"We're going to make an electric semi, but we're only ever going to sell it to businesses based in North Dakota, because fuck revenue!" -anyone advocating for 'Linux-exclusive' games ever.

We've been down this road with Linux gaming- the best that can be hoped for- the very best- is for engine devs to build with SteamOS (err Ubuntu) support in mind so that developers who wish to also release for desktop Linux (GNU/Linux) can do so without having to wrap APIs or whole game executables, so that native performance may be achievable.

And that's happening.

Ubuntu is already the development platform of choice. Why the sarcasm? Are you incapable of discussing in a friendly context?

 

[heatlesssun]

Lets just keep the vast generalisations out of this discussion and stick to the facts, the fact is you have no idea how much Valve makes or loses regarding Linux users. The idea of a HL3 exclusive is to generate awareness, I'm sure 6 months won't kill Valve.

Making a desktop Linux exclusive game using a valuable IP that ignores Windows, macOS and consoles? I'm not generalizing, I'm not ignoring reality.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Ubuntu is already the development platform of choice. Why the sarcasm? Are you incapable of discussing in a friendly context?

That was a friendly response, to an absurd idea.

Hi, business graduate here: if a public company decided to release a major AAA-IP as a Linux exclusive, they'd be sued by their own shareholders. And their shareholders would win.