Linux only needs one 'killer' game to explode, says Battlefield director

[BulletDust]

"We're going to make an electric semi, but we're only ever going to sell it to businesses based in North Dakota, because fuck revenue!" -anyone advocating for 'Linux-exclusive' games ever.

Where's the evidence that there would be no revenue? I'm noticing that Windows users not only can't help but post in an unwarranted aggressive fashion, but they generalise a lot?

This is all purely theoretical and will never happen, so calm down.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Please quote my assumption of no revenue.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Also please quote where you can show that I'm not a Linux/Mac/Android/iOS user, because I'm all of those in addition to being a Windows desktop and server user.

 

[heatlesssun]

Hi, business graduate here: if a public company decided to release a major AAA-IP as a Linux exclusive, they'd be sued by their own shareholders. And their shareholders would win.

The only reason to do this is to promote a proprietary platform which is something Valve doesn't seem to be interested in because the money for software sales is so profitable. After what happened with Steam Machines, I don't think there's a lot of appetite to create a desktop Linux based gaming platform.

 

[BulletDust]

Making a desktop Linux exclusive game using a valuable IP that ignores Windows, macOS and consoles? I'm not generalizing, I'm not ignoring reality.

Is Linux to hard to install? Does it cost money to install Linux? After six months if Linux isn't for you there could exist the option to download and install the game under Windows, is that unrealistic?

The issue is that your perception of reality is odd. Have you ever heard the saying "spend money to make money"? Quite often an acceptable loss for a limited period of time in order to promote a vision is perfectly acceptable.

 

[BulletDust]

Also please quote where you can show that I'm not a Linux/Mac/Android/iOS user, because I'm all of those in addition to being a Windows desktop and server user.

Good for you, likewise I'm also a macOS and Windows user.

Calm down and stop with the aggressive context. No one is threatening you here.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Good for you, likewise I'm also a macOS and Windows user.

Calm down and stop with the aggressive context. No one is threatening you here.

I'm being direct, and you're reading aggression most likely because you're expecting aggression. That's your context, not mine.

I come to the Linux forum to learn and discuss reality, not play pretend and what if pigs could fly. They don't fly.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

On installing Linux- is Linux easy to install in a way that doesn't destroy an existing Windows install upon installation or removal?

You gonna get people with baseline computer literacy to follow such a procedure and accept that risk?

 

[heatlesssun]

Is Linux to hard to install? Does it cost money to install Linux?

Why would Valve make 99% of its customers install an OS that isn't compatible with the large majority of Steam games they already own to play one game that they will certainly sell on other platforms to maximize profits? If you really think that this is a good idea I don't know what to tell you. There'd be a shitstorm of blowback over this. Windows users made Gabe a billionaire. And if a Linux exclusive were to line his pockets somehow them maybe I would say fine, but it would serve no purpose unless Valve just wants to do depress its own software sales, where it makes all of its money.

 

[BulletDust]

Why would Valve make 99% of its customers install an OS that isn't compatible with the large majority of Steam games they already own to play one game that they will certainly sell on other platforms to maximize profits? If you really think that this is a good idea I don't know what to tell you. There'd be a shitstorm of blowback over this. Windows users made Gabe a billionaire. And if a Linux exclusive were to line his pockets somehow them maybe I would say fine, but it would serve no purpose unless Valve just wants to do depress its own software sales, where it makes all of its money.

I never claimed it was a good idea, I'm just discussing the pro's and con's. This discussion is all purely theoretical and likely to never eventuate.

If you think otherwise, you've made your point. Move on.

 

[heatlesssun]

You gonna get people with baseline computer literacy to follow such a procedure and accept that risk?

To play a single game? I guarantee that Valve would get blasted using the HL IP and ignoring the customers that made them rich.

 

[BulletDust]

To play a single game? I guarantee that Valve would get blasted using the HL IP and ignoring the customers that made them rich.

Which would still generate awareness of Linux.

MS get blasted over their questionable decisions all the time.

 

[-PK-]

Linux only needs one killer game to explode

Sure, if there was a game like Lose/Lose that deletes a random file every time you die, except for Windows, pre-installed from the microsoft store, with a kid friendly name. That might do it.

 

[BulletDust]

You know, the only reason why I bought an Xbox 360 was to play Forza. I never bought another game for the world's most unreliable machine ever.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

You know, the only reason why I bought an Xbox 360 was to play Forza. I never bought another game for the world's most unreliable machine ever.

This... this just gets me rolling.

Your topic is about getting people to change platforms for one game, and here you are talking about how you made this mistake already...

Can you imagine the damage this would do to Linux gaming, if one and only one 'killer app' arrived?

Can you imagine a company taking the (massive) risk of releasing an AAA title for Linux only, taking the losses that are going to come from it, and then releasing another AAA only for Linux, or any other company making the same mistake?


Right now it's just a stupid idea, but remains (if only remotely) possible. As soon as someone actually does it, it goes from being a stupid idea to never going to happen again, lol...

 

[heatlesssun]

Which would still generate awareness of Linux.

MS get blasted over their questionable decisions all the time.

It wouldn't raise awareness of Linux with people in this kind of forum and awareness of Linux doesn't sell games. Sure Microsoft gets blasted like everyone else from time to time but making a AAA game that literally 99% of PC and console gamers can't run? To raise awareness of Linux? Like a console gamer is going to install Linux? And for all the grief experienced computer folks get around here dealing with Linux, I can imagine someone trying to install Linux to play a single game, like that wouldn't be a source of endless frustration for people as you point out who've never installed in OS in their life.

If Valve or someone else wants to go with a desktop Linux exclusive games, they'd need devices preinstalled with Linux, like Steam Machines. And that didn't go over too well. Whatever demand there is for Linux gaming right now is from expert desktop Linux users or anti-Microsoft folks, not typical gamers.

 

[BulletDust]

This... this just gets me rolling.

Your topic is about getting people to change platforms for one game, and here you are talking about how you made this mistake already...

Can you imagine the damage this would do to Linux gaming, if one and only one 'killer app' arrived?

Can you imagine a company taking the (massive) risk of releasing an AAA title for Linux only, taking the losses that are going to come from it, and then releasing another AAA only for Linux, or any other company making the same mistake?


Right now it's just a stupid idea, but remains (if only remotely) possible. As soon as someone actually does it, it goes from being a stupid idea to never going to happen again, lol...

No, I can't.

I spent money on a Xbox 360 to play Forza. The first Xbox was faulty upon unpacking and was replaced for another and I enjoyed Forza immensely for the whole time I owned that Xbox 360.

Now, considering that Linux is free and doesn't cost money as per my example regarding the Xbox, I can't see how such a scenario could possibly damage Linux gaming in the slightest. One thing I am still noticing is your context - You're not above me, you're own opinion is not any more valid than my own just because it's yours. There's no need to be 'direct', as you put it, and I am not attacking you or even replying to you in a similar context. Is it so hard to drop the attitude and reply like a mature adult?

 

[BulletDust]

It wouldn't raise awareness of Linux with people in this kind of forum and awareness of Linux doesn't sell games. Sure Microsoft gets blasted like everyone else from time to time but making a AAA game that literally 99% of PC and console gamers can't run? To raise awareness of Linux? Like a console gamer is going to install Linux? And for all the grief experienced computer folks get around here dealing with Linux, I can imagine someone trying to install Linux to play a single game, like that wouldn't be a source of endless frustration for people as you point out who've never installed in OS in their life.

If Valve or someone else wants to go with a desktop Linux exclusive games, they'd need devices preinstalled with Linux, like Steam Machines. And that didn't go over too well. Whatever demand there is for Linux gaming right now is from expert desktop Linux users or anti-Microsoft folks, not typical gamers.

We know 99% of PC's and consoles can't run it - That's the point you're missing.

Linux only needs one 'killer' game to explode, says Battlefield director

I'm happy to discuss, but you need to consider points of view that may conflict with your own and stop ignoring them. If you can't acknowledge that you're even remotely capable of considering a point of view that conflicts with your own, there's really no point discussing anything with you and I will just ignore your postings for others to tackle as opposed to the resulting circle jerking.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Now, considering that Linux is free and doesn't cost money as per my example regarding the Xbox, I can't see how such a scenario could possibly damage Linux gaming in the slightest.

You mean, because there isn't an immediate monetary cost, you can't see that there's still a cost?

Lol. For a mainstream user to install Linux, it won't cost them money, but there is the potential of losing their Windows install. Losing their settings, applications, licenses, etc.

We're experts, but the people that would make Linux gaming a mainstream reality are not, and the costs therein are another hurdle.

 

[heatlesssun]

We know 99% of PC's and consoles can't run it - That's the point you're missing.

What developer in their right mind is going to release a big budget title that almost no one can run and requires average people to install an operating system and all of the complexity of dealing with that? If the goal is to raise Linux awareness and sell few copies of a game, sure. The way to go about that is with hardware like a Steam Machine. Had those been successful there might very well be Linux exclusive titles in the market today.

 

[BulletDust]

You mean, because there isn't an immediate monetary cost, you can't see that there's still a cost?

Lol. For a mainstream user to install Linux, it won't cost them money, but there is the potential of losing their Windows install. Losing their settings, applications, licenses, etc.

We're experts, but the people that would make Linux gaming a mainstream reality are not, and the costs therein are another hurdle.

And if it's all too hard, wait 6 months and install the same game under Windows. Hell, make it 3 months.

Of course it's usually the Linux install that's killed as a result of Windows 10 update messing with GRUB and not the other way around, Installing Linux alongside an existing Windows install should literally be child's play for any PC gamer with half a clue. Otherwise bundle it with Steam Machines? No different to the beginnings of the Xbox, everything's got to start somewhere and exclusives are without a doubt a marketing tactic used by manufacturers in the past as a ploy to increase the attractiveness of their machines.

The difference is that in this scenario there is the possibility of being an early adopter with little to no cost involved with the exception of the game itself: You're not tied to a Steam Machine provided you have the nouse to install a packaged Linux distro, reward such people for their skills - Let them feel 'elite'.

 

[heatlesssun]

Of course it's usually the Linux install that's killed as a result of Windows 10 update messing with GRUB and not the other way around, Installing Linux alongside an existing Windows install should literally be child's play for any PC gamer with half a clue.

You've mentioned how many times that most people don't even know how to install Windows, and this to play a game? Be it six months or three, the average person is going to say "WTF?"

The difference is that in this scenario there is the possibility of being an early adopter with little to no cost involved with the exception of the game itself: You're not tied to a Steam Machine.

An early adopter of an OS that's been around for 25 years? Little late for that.

 

[BulletDust]

You've mentioned how many times that most people don't even know how to install Windows, and this to play a game? Be it six months or three, the average person is going to say "WTF?"

No, the masses can't install Windows, or any OS for that matter. I don't consider all PC gamers to be as mindless as the average Windows user. Furthermore I did mention the possibility of bundling the game with pre built Steam Machines, no different to what MS did when the Xbox was first released in the day.

An early adopter of an OS that's been around for 25 years? Little late for that.

An early adopter of the game, obviously. Not an early adopter of the OS.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

The straws, they are grasped at...

You cannot make a business case for this- it's literally just a pipe dream for 'increasing awareness of Linux', except in this case it's that infinitesimal niche where you live called 'desktop Linux', and an infinitesimal niche inside that infinitesimal niche called 'Linux gaming' that you like to pretend exists because abandoning your zealotous crusade against Microsoft would shatter your very being.

"Maybe they'll be okay moving to desktop Linux!"
"Maybe they'll be okay with dual-booting!"
"Maybe they'll be okay with waiting for an AAA game!"
"Maybe they'll be okay moving back to Windows if they have to!"

Maybe the proposal will get brought up in a meeting one too many times, and maybe the proposer will find themselves wanting for a job...

 

[heatlesssun]

Furthermore I did mention the possibility of bundling the game with pre built Steam Machines, no different to what MS did when the Xbox was first released in the day.

And did I not say that the way to do this is with hardware, not requiring people to install an operating system? And that hardware already exists and it flopped. Now maybe if there are exclusive titles it would do better, but the cost of a lot of lost sales. Which is why Valve, which makes in money on software sales, never made Linux exclusives nor anyone else selling games on Steam. Linux awareness doesn't make developers money including Steam.

 

[BulletDust]

The straws, they are grasped at...

You cannot make a business case for this- it's literally just a pipe dream for 'increasing awareness of Linux', except in this case it's that infinitesimal niche where you live called 'desktop Linux', and an infinitesimal niche inside that infinitesimal niche called 'Linux gaming' that you like to pretend exists because abandoning your zealotous crusade against Microsoft would shatter your very being.

"Maybe they'll be okay moving to desktop Linux!"
"Maybe they'll be okay with dual-booting!"
"Maybe they'll be okay with waiting for an AAA game!"
"Maybe they'll be okay moving back to Windows if they have to!"

Maybe the proposal will get brought up in a meeting one too many times, and maybe the proposer will find themselves wanting for a job...

Well that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I admit there are flaws, however as stated I see no reason why Valve cannot use exclusives to promote Steam Machines, even for a short period of time when companies like Sony/Microsoft have been doing it for years as a way to lock the consumer into their platform indefinitely.

 

[BulletDust]

And did I not say that the way to do this is with hardware, not requiring people to install an operating system? And that hardware already exists and it flopped. Now maybe if there are exclusive titles it would do better, but the cost of a lot of lost sales. Which is why Valve, which makes in money on software sales, never made Linux exclusives nor anyone else selling games on Steam. Linux awareness doesn't make developers money including Steam.

Promoting a new platform always costs money, it's for a limited period of time and I'm sure Valve can weather the possibility of lost sales - Bearing in mind that you are generalizing when you assume that sales will most definitely be lost to platform exclusives on Steam Machines, considering the Steam Machine is the only console not to offer platform exclusives.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Well that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I admit there are flaws, however as stated I see no reason why Valve cannot use exclusives to promote Steam Machines, even for a short period of time when companies like Sony/Microsoft have been doing it for years as a way to lock the consumer into their platform indefinitely.

Their (Microsoft/Sony/Sega...) platform was plug and play, and didn't necessitate wiping an already owned device- bunk comparison.

Valve could use this to promote Steam machines, and they'd get all of fifteen minutes more fame, and then it'd be forgotten by consumers again.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I admit there are flaws, however as stated I see no reason why Valve cannot use exclusives to promote Steam Machines, even for a short period of time when companies like Sony/Microsoft have been doing it for years as a way to lock the consumer into their platform indefinitely.

It's much more than opinion. Linux gaming isn't exactly a new kid on the block, 4 years is a long time in the tech world these days. If developers are just getting 20% of PC titles to Linux, why all of a sudden bring a big budget Linux exclusive? Linux awareness would have been raised a good deal more by brining along say 40% or 50% of 80% of PC titles to Linux. Because they don't give shit about Linux awareness. They're trying to make money and if there were money to be made from Linux exclusives, you bet they'd be doing it already.

 

[BulletDust]

Valve could use this to promote Steam machines, and they'd get all of fifteen minutes more fame, and then it'd be forgotten by consumers again.

The Steam Machine was never forgotten by consumers, it was simply never adopted by consumers as there was never any real reason to own one. However the idea of an open source console that's as powerful as you want to make holds merit in my opinion, there just has to be a reason to want one.

 

[BulletDust]

It's much more than opinion. Linux gaming isn't exactly a new kid on the block, 4 years is a long time in the tech world these days. If developers are just getting 20% of PC titles to Linux, why all of a sudden bring a big budget Linux exclusive? Linux awareness would have been raised a good deal more by brining along say 40% or 50% of 80% of PC titles to Linux. Because they don't give shit about Linux awareness. They're trying to make money and if there were money to be made from Linux exclusives, you bet they'd be doing it already.

4 years is not a long time anymore, tech is advancing slower than ever, even a 6yo processor is still capable of playing the latest and greatest games assuming a decent GPU.

At 4 years on Steam Windows had very few titles as a platform - I remember, I was there.

 

[heatlesssun]

Promoting a new platform always costs money, it's for a limited period of time and I'm sure Valve can weather the possibility of lost sales - Bearing in mind that you are generalizing when you assume that sales will most definitely be lost to platform exclusives on Steam Machines, considering the Steam Machine is the only console not to offer platform exclusives.

But Valve doesn't make any money from anything related to the platform. They don't make money from Steam OS or Steam Machines, they don't even make Steam Machines. Someone in this has to have a financial motive to make Linux exclusives and there just isn't any stake holder that has that motive.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

The Steam Machine was never forgotten by consumers, it was simply never adopted by consumers as there was never any real reason to own one. However the idea of an open source console that's as powerful as you want to make holds merit in my opinion, there just has to be a reason to want one.

Yes, yes, the average PC gamer keeps Steam Machines (those poorly spec'd even for an HTPC boxes) in a special place in their heart, lol.

Hint: the average PC gamer barely has cognition of why hardware matters. The word 'Linux' might as well be 'Oracle' or 'Bosch', things that exist outside their periphery that they don't concern themselves with.

And you're going to tell them they need to give up Windows and access to all of their current games and VOIP clients and software and the licenses they use for what stands in as a poor and poorly configured mess to feed your ego. I'm legitimately laughing.

 

[BulletDust]

But Valve doesn't make any money from anything related to the platform. They don't make money from Steam OS or Steam Machines, they don't even make Steam Machines. Someone in this has to have a financial motive to make Linux exclusives and there just isn't any stake holder that has that motive.

It's totally against Valves better judgement to make their service totally platform dependent, and as a company putting all of your eggs in one basket is never a good idea, it's all about diversification - The number of times I've seen businesses fail because their one main client stopped using them anymore is quite high and as a business owner myself it's never a good long term idea as you're at the sole mercy of that one major client.

So while Valve may not see financial gain beyond physical sales of an exclusive such as HL3, Valve most definitely stands to gain a vast majority of independence from the manipulative tactics of Microsoft.

 

[BulletDust]

Yes, yes, the average PC gamer keeps Steam Machines (those poorly spec'd even for an HTPC boxes) in a special place in their heart, lol.

Hint: the average PC gamer barely has cognition of why hardware matters. The word 'Linux' might as well be 'Oracle' or 'Bosch', things that exist outside their periphery that they don't concern themselves with.

And you're going to tell them they need to give up Windows and access to all of their current games and VOIP clients and software and the licenses they use for what stands in as a poor and poorly configured mess to feed your ego. I'm legitimately laughing.

Why reply if you just cannot avoid sarcasm? On the surface it comes across as a defense mechanism.

 

[heatlesssun]

4 years is not a long time anymore, tech is advancing slower than ever, even a 6yo processor is still capable of playing the latest and greatest games assuming a decent GPU.

At 4 years on Steam Windows had very few titles as a platform - I remember, I was there.

Four years ago Valve wasn't working on VR and Valve has publicly stated that VR is currently where their first party game development efforts are focused. I'd have a better chance of becoming the King of England than those VR titles being Linux exclusives.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Why reply if you just cannot avoid sarcasm? On the surface it comes across as a defense mechanism.

Why start threads when you read every opinion that doesn't align completely with your zealotry as 'sarcasm'?

I'm legitimately laughing, still.

The very idea that a Linux-exclusive game would raise awareness for any idea except 'we're never doing that again!' is ludicrous.

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

Lars Gustavsson of DICE said this?

That "killer game" he's talking about definitely won't be one made by his company. I'm fairly certain the amount of bugs present in a launch day Battlefield series game would single handedly kill all interest in Linux gaming and cause Linus Torvalds to have a stroke.

 

[BulletDust]

Why start threads when you read every opinion that doesn't align completely with your zealotry as 'sarcasm'?

I'm legitimately laughing, still.

The very idea that a Linux-exclusive game would raise awareness for any idea except 'we're never doing that again!' is ludicrous.

Because you're postings wreak of sarcasm, even this one. It's childish and it appears that you quite simply can't help it. I'm sorry you're so insecure that you cannot post without some mention of laughing your arse off.

If you think the idea is so far fetched, even though every other manufacturer does it, why are you even posting in this thread?

 

[BulletDust]

Lars Gustavsson of DICE said this?

That "killer game" he's talking about definitely won't be one made by his company. I'm fairly certain the amount of bugs present in a launch day Battlefield series game would single handedly kill all interest in Linux gaming and cause Linus Torvalds to have a stroke.

A valid point, most of EA's games are so full of bugs on release they're borderline betas that people pay good money for.