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Linux In the News
- Thread starter cageymaru
- Start date
They've been saying that for the past 15-20 years now
And its been a good 15-20.
D
Deleted member 89018
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You MIGHT want to give it a try again. Your list definitely reads like complaints about trying to game on Linux six years ago. There have been a whole lot of improvements since then. I've been doing more and more gaming on Linux since Steam was released for it (early 2013) and it's really a night and day difference between 2012, pre-Steam, and now.
I pretty much only boot in to Windows for Blizzard games these days. They run well on Linux through WINE (I haven't tried anything with DXVK yet, so I've only played ones where you can still force an OpenGL render mode) but Blizzard's love/hate relationship with permabanning people using it has kept me from really diving in to it.
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Yes, everything should babysit you with the utmost importance.
Jesus Christ. Go eat another tide pod.
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I don't disagree with him. Modal dialogs are evil 99% of the time, and Windows had done away with them for the most part. Even the ones that are still modal, generally are backgrounded and the icon in the task bar is flashed instead of having it steal focus. If it is stealing focus, it's a bug imho, and Microsoft would probably agree.
Dr. Righteous
2[H]4U
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Decided I play both sides of the fence today.
This a fun thread. Windose, a dose of win. I think it describes the OS rather well. I can understand those who like it will not be pleased but its accurate. The winners OS.
Now I'm a terrible loser who has trouble with Ubuntu. Where the fuck is root? So my ancient addiction to Slackware, that I started when NT 4.0 pissed me off, has sustained this poor fool for quite a while. I remember downloading it very slowly, 28.8 baby and fighting with it for weeks.
For games wine works great but you need winetricks for the DX11 etc. Unless you want to do that by hand.
Now I'm a terrible loser who has trouble with Ubuntu. Where the fuck is root? So my ancient addiction to Slackware, that I started when NT 4.0 pissed me off, has sustained this poor fool for quite a while. I remember downloading it very slowly, 28.8 baby and fighting with it for weeks.
For games wine works great but you need winetricks for the DX11 etc. Unless you want to do that by hand.
Todd Walter
Gawd
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Not stealing focus from the user is an important part of any HMI; your ignorance on the subject is not surprising, nor is your high-quality reply.
How "and I tried" do you get linux to support intel & marvell soft raids? I tried and even gparted has a problem with my raids. Linux sucks. Win7 x64 all the way. And gaming is badly supported under linux/unix. In the beginning of ubuntu, I was a user because at the time my machine was a pen III and it was fun learning n all that but with the machine I have now, win7 is more desirable because of functionality.
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If you want to use Linux, you either get hardware that's supported or you write the support if you can. If it doesn't work on Linux and you can't(for technical reasons or otherwise) or don't feel like making it work, then don't use it (Linux that is). Sometimes there are better solutions.
Edited for clarity.
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![Zarathustra[H]](/data/avatars/m/9/9298.jpg?1723407683){kind=avatar}
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Answer: Never use shitty Intel/and motherboard software RAID, it is a hack and a terrible one at that, even when it works in Windows.
There is a reason no one else has bothered getting it working in Linux. No one should be using it, regardless of OS.
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If a pop-up comes up in the middle.of typing something and you just happen to hit enter at the right time, this could happen.
It would probably be rare, but with the millions of windows users out there, even relatively rare events on a per computer per year basis, will happen with some frequency to someone.
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Doesn't have to be enter. Could be spacebar if a button has default focus, or a quick-key if the buttons have assigned quick-keys or if universal quick-keys are enabled. (Edit: "Keyboard accelerators", not quick-keys...)
I been using soft raid for couple years. No problems at all. I even have a custom intel raid flash specifically for 32kb strip. I get with my intel raid0 n 840pros a 1GB read n write. Sata3 is maxed out. Ive bought an lsi or ibm "cant remember" raid card "when i was burstcoin mining" and followed a flashing guide but the component bricked. Sent it back. Not a whole lot of hard raid card options out there at a good price.
Motherboard based software raid falls flat on it's face where failure is concerned. If your motherboard fails under a Linux software raid configuration you can easily swap the motherboard with anything that has enough SATA ports and everything will keep running perfectly, especially considering the flexibility of Linux with hardware swaps. Try the same scenario with any motherboard based software raid and troubles arise, this is definitely an issue where redundancy and low downtime is concerned.
In most cases I actually find that Linux software raid configurations perform better than motherboard based software raid configurations. Even Windows itself has a fairly good software raid configuration utility now.
I dont understand how it fails. "Like i said, been using soft raid for couple years without any problems at all"
lostin3d
[H]ard|Gawd
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1. RGB is one of the few things that really just doesn't work in Linux right now. Part of that is there is no standard that I've seen for interfacing with the gear. There is some work for building tools to interface with RGB stuff, but it's not mature yet. _OTHERWISE_, there's so few compatibility issues now, I rarely hear about them. AMD and nVidia have been working really hard to get drivers ready for new GPUs they roll out, sometimes before release, sometimes at release, sometimes shortly after. CPUs, there's been some initial hiccups with Ryzen, but those got ironed out. Intel CPUs literally no problem. Bluetooth, I have not once heard anyone have a problem with compatibility there, so far as I am aware that's 100% compatible. 10gig NICs already compatible. However, I would recommend you stay AWAY from Creative Labs soundcards, they suck ass for drivers, and are expensive anyways. Mice, they work, but mice utilities are a bit hit/miss right now, I like Roccat for that reason.
2. The numbers are literally in the thousands now. In addition to native games, there's so many you can play with WINE stuff, and I am going to show that it can be easy. Native games : https://store.steampowered.com/linux
3. I have not seen any issues with HDR/SPDIF/4K/3D. SPDIF has been native in Linux for... decades. HDR, AFAIK that's through drivers. 4k, well that's just a higher resolution. Linux has been capable of even higher resolution than that for decades. 3D, yeah, well, how would that differ compared to gaming?
4. Please be more specific.
Thanks for all the info. I've got steam so I'll check out more of what's there.
For #3 I wasn't sure if the driver support coming from NV was any different in Linux. For 3d it mostly works fine but at times can be a bit clunky in its initialization. HDR, well for gaming its a bit of a mess for MS PC's due to Windows doing it's own things at times. I've played MEA and RE7 but I've read threads online where people had issues. I wasn't sure if Linux allowed a cleaner path. How about G-Sync? You're totally right about HTPC's, I admit I was just trying to come up with relevant topics. All our tv's are 'smart' with their own flavor of apps, plus I have a Kodi box connected to one.
In regards to #4, it was more of a relation to some networking classes I had awhile back. They showed much could be done with free software, a bit of work in putting together various software bits and configuring, but often with more advanced features and more of a 1 stop solution you needed paid software. I don't remember what specifically. I was merely curious about similar options in the home such as media playback, media conversion/management, Office compatible, etc. I remember back in the days of XP I often had to manually install configure all my codecs/filters, had dozens of each kind of program I needed and the work flow was a constant open/close or keep lots of things running. These days, I like simple suites that get things done easily and have little/no compatibility issues for other devices. If I make a file to steam, or word/excel, it's nice knowing most people won't have problems viewing or using them.
I also agree with you about Creative, things really started going downhill for them in the early 2000's in terms of drivers. I still remember how pissed I was when they lost a lawsuit, pushed out a firmware update, and next thing you know my 24/192 6.1 card was limited to 24/96 2.0 and there was no way to flash and roll back. I've been mostly happy with onboard SPDIF(although the options can be unusual) or HDMI thru NV since. Has Linux incorporate any kind of builtin free Atmos support like MS has attempted? That too is pretty clunky. When it works, great but all it takes is one wacky handshake and it's dropped.
Some more advanced features I'd be curious about: RAID and/or Nvme support? Any peculiar brand specific SSD issues?
BloodyIron
2[H]4U
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1. nVidia has professionally and officially support Linux for a very long time now. Primarily for workstations, but they actually have been fixing Linux Gaming centric stuff in their drivers for years now too. At this point, they effectively provide full support for Linux Gamers from a driver perspective, so far as I can tell.
2. I can't speak about G-Sync, but it probably works, and for me, I'd expect it to work. But I haven't validated this.
3. pfSense
4. Libre Office
5. VLC for local media playback, but I haven't had to wrestle with codecs in years. Ubuntu has a checkbox to install them during install (as they are non-free licensed, it's an option), and if you forget, it's just like a couple packages to install and you're done. But I honestly don't remember the last time I had to worry about that.
6. I do not know the state of Atmos in Linux.
7. AFAIK NVMe should work just fine, I have not seen evidence to show it doesn't. HW RAID is outside the OS so no problems there. I have never seen any brand-specific SSD issues, as that is part of the SATA/AHCI spec, not like Linux needs drivers for them.
I think at this point you just need to buck up and try it Go get Ubuntu Desktop and do it already. It's actually easy, and way fast.
2. I can't speak about G-Sync, but it probably works, and for me, I'd expect it to work. But I haven't validated this.
3. pfSense
4. Libre Office
5. VLC for local media playback, but I haven't had to wrestle with codecs in years. Ubuntu has a checkbox to install them during install (as they are non-free licensed, it's an option), and if you forget, it's just like a couple packages to install and you're done. But I honestly don't remember the last time I had to worry about that.
6. I do not know the state of Atmos in Linux.
7. AFAIK NVMe should work just fine, I have not seen evidence to show it doesn't. HW RAID is outside the OS so no problems there. I have never seen any brand-specific SSD issues, as that is part of the SATA/AHCI spec, not like Linux needs drivers for them.
I think at this point you just need to buck up and try it
Go get Ubuntu Desktop and do it already. It's actually easy, and way fast.
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Personally I would become a huge fan of ZFS over the years. If it were supported by Windows I'd use it on all my dual boot systems.
Not only is it more failure resistant than even any hardware RAID, but if anything ever goes wrong I can connect the drives to literally any system, boot up a Linux rescue disk, important my pool and access my data.
I don't need to find another similar motherboard, or the same brand and model RAID controller, or any nonsense like that. It's universal (except for its unfortunate lack of Windows support)
Can't beat that.
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1. RGB is one of the few things that really just doesn't work in Linux right now. Part of that is there is no standard that I've seen for interfacing with the gear. There is some work for building tools to interface with RGB stuff, but it's not mature yet. _OTHERWISE_, there's so few compatibility issues now, I rarely hear about them. AMD and nVidia have been working really hard to get drivers ready for new GPUs they roll out, sometimes before release, sometimes at release, sometimes shortly after. CPUs, there's been some initial hiccups with Ryzen, but those got ironed out. Intel CPUs literally no problem. Bluetooth, I have not once heard anyone have a problem with compatibility there, so far as I am aware that's 100% compatible. 10gig NICs already compatible. However, I would recommend you stay AWAY from Creative Labs soundcards, they suck ass for drivers, and are expensive anyways. Mice, they work, but mice utilities are a bit hit/miss right now, I like Roccat for that reason.
2. The numbers are literally in the thousands now. In addition to native games, there's so many you can play with WINE stuff, and I am going to show that it can be easy. Native games : https://store.steampowered.com/linux
3. I have not seen any issues with HDR/SPDIF/4K/3D. SPDIF has been native in Linux for... decades. HDR, AFAIK that's through drivers. 4k, well that's just a higher resolution. Linux has been capable of even higher resolution than that for decades. 3D, yeah, well, how would that differ compared to gaming?
4. Please be more specific.
Lol. You are not going to try an OS because it doesn't support useless ricer RGB?
Get your priorities straight man
Lol. You are not going to try an OS because it doesn't support useless ricer RGB?
Get your priorities straight man
Well at least he didnt say due to lack of support for ReiserFS...
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Got to have that wife murdering file system!
BloodyIron
2[H]4U
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Lol I know right.
I mean, I'd like to get RGB stuff going too, but that's a pretty silly deal breaker.
I mean, I'd like to get RGB stuff going too, but that's a pretty silly deal breaker.
Lol. You are not going to try an OS because it doesn't support useless ricer RGB?
Get your priorities straight man
If your motherboard fails and you can't find an exact replacement your data is gone, as the motherboard is the device handling the software raid as opposed to the Linux scenario where the OS is handling the software raid.
cdr_74_premium
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I think Linux's compatibility with everything is pretty damn amazing when you realize that, unlike Windows, device manufacturers aren't throwing drivers at them.
IdiotInCharge
NVIDIA SHILL
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Generally speaking, they actually are.
It's just a different spread of focus in edge cases; more toward enterprise, less toward consumer desktop, at least until you get to IoT-grade hardware.
As an aside: what about using Intel soft-RAID (Z170) for RAID-1? I get that any sort of parity might be a bad idea, but a mirrored pair should work individually regardless of controller used, right?
lostin3d
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Lol. You are not going to try an OS because it doesn't support useless ricer RGB?
Get your priorities straight man
That was my fault. I only mentioned them since so many these days seem to make them a priority. My own rigs have very little going on with 'em and I really only turn them on for the holidays-LOL. I remember going to a comic-con about 5-6 years ago with some friends who noticed a whole gaming village with most rigs all lit up. My friends asked why mine were not like that and told mine were for what you actually saw on the screen and not in the case.
The problem is, it's in a bit of a bind, and won't be consumer accessible without pissing off the hardcore users. That is, someone will need to follow Mac's approach with and make a Linux OS without people realizing it's a Linux OS. I.e. get rid of any immediate knowledge of a terminal and cut down on customization.
If people know it's Linux, they'll do the normal stuff of going online when they have a question. Oh, I have to use apt-get to acquire this program. Why is it saying apt-get isn't found? Huh, I have to use yum? What's the difference, and why can't they have sensible names? Oh, I need to sudo? I'm not part of sudoers? What's a wheel group? Oh god, how do I exit this vi program?
And that leads to another issue I have. Way too many Linux zealots tend to act in a way that you first need to know what you don't know to find the answer to what you don't know, and then it will be easy. Sounds confusing? Yeah, that's exactly what I mean.
Of course, that's typically followed by someone suggesting "Just use Mint" or another image which only lead to more confusion.
cdr_74_premium
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That's true. But I figured we are talking about standard consumer use, at best enterprise machines that are used by regular employees.
On the server side, Linux is fine thank you very much. If it had anything like Active Directory, most people wouldn't even know their environment became Linux-powered after a sudden change.
Todd Walter
Gawd
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That depends on how the data is structured. If they use some scratch space to store the block checksums then you should be able to seek the partition table and recover the data in a usable format. The more likely scenario is that they pad the blocks with the information instead which would prevent the recreation of the filesystem.
Ty for explaining, rather just saying it fails.
Ic now. Yea, i use macrium reflect and backup my os regularly. My z75 pro3 is from 2011 and knock on wood, still going strong.
You're absolutely right. I remember someone on a Youtube channel I watch talking about people like that. It seems they would rather have you fail, quit, or never attempt to do something because they want nothing more than to think they are better than you because they know something you don't.. Learning new things is one of the joys of life. Being told you're an idiot and shouldn't do something they know because they're better than you is definitely not.
I use Linux as well as macOS and I can assure you the necessity of the terminal is almost identical when considering both operating systems. If you want to do anything beyond the basics under macOS the terminal is a necessity and the commands are almost identical to Linux, you can even ssh between Linux and macOS machines. Want to write to an NTFS partition under macOS without third party and often buggy drivers? Be prepared to use the terminal. Under a modern Linux distro such as Ubuntu NTFS partitions can be written to using the GUI file manager.
The problem with your comment is the terminal isn't as necessary under a modern distribution such as Ubuntu as you imagine it to be.
Well, the big problem novices run into is when you need to use the terminal to do something that Windows either handles on its own, or something a manufacturer like nVidia handles but just not for Linux. I know that's not Linux's fault, but having to walk through a step by step tutorial on how to get a video card driver to function, or just to get something as simple as Netflix working (which requires no effort on Windows), is a huge road block for the mass public acceptance of Linux.
Every time someone has to take steps in Linux that they don't have to in Windows to get something to just work, it ruins the overall end user experience.
Under an Ubuntu based distro nvidia drivers are actually easier to install than they are under Windows and once installed the OS, not a third party application, updates them automatically if you want it to.
Running Netflix under Linux involves opening Firefox.
GUI isn't always more intuitive.
There is no requirement to use the Linux command line for anything. That doesn't change the fact that its the fastest most efficient way to do a ton of things. As it should and always will be.
I love the... but but you have to use a command line and average people don't want that. From the same camp that attempts to explain to those same users how to pop up regedit.exe and change hexadecimal data stores. I'm sure those average users have any clue what it is they are doing when they are following some shady online Fix for X or Y changing hex flags in some cryptic HKEY setting.
I know its shocking to say but there are things in windows that are best accomplished from the command line as well. Microsofts own employees suggest using the command line to do a ton of stuff when people ask for help on their support site. For the exact same reason most Linux people suggest using the command line. Its universal, it can't be pouched because a user pushes the wrong button or pops up the wrong window. Type XXXXX and Y will happen.
I mean what would be the best way to help a Linux user through an issue... asking;
- What Distro are you using ?
- What DE are you using ?
- What Package Manager GUI are you using ?
and 20 other possible questions before you can confidently say click here click there click here and accept.
When you can simply say... open your terminal... and type >sudo apt-get update
or whatever the simple command line fix is.
Is that really any more of an issue then a MS employee suggesting a user type;
DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-image /Restorehealth
I love the... but but you have to use a command line and average people don't want that. From the same camp that attempts to explain to those same users how to pop up regedit.exe and change hexadecimal data stores. I'm sure those average users have any clue what it is they are doing when they are following some shady online Fix for X or Y changing hex flags in some cryptic HKEY setting.
I know its shocking to say but there are things in windows that are best accomplished from the command line as well. Microsofts own employees suggest using the command line to do a ton of stuff when people ask for help on their support site. For the exact same reason most Linux people suggest using the command line. Its universal, it can't be pouched because a user pushes the wrong button or pops up the wrong window. Type XXXXX and Y will happen.
I mean what would be the best way to help a Linux user through an issue... asking;
- What Distro are you using ?
- What DE are you using ?
- What Package Manager GUI are you using ?
and 20 other possible questions before you can confidently say click here click there click here and accept.
When you can simply say... open your terminal... and type >sudo apt-get update
or whatever the simple command line fix is.
Is that really any more of an issue then a MS employee suggesting a user type;
DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-image /Restorehealth
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Well, that's definitely an improvement over previous years when you had to jump through hoops to get the nVidia drivers installed. Unfortunately, Ubuntu won't load on my main machine. I may have to try it on my secondary desktop to see how it is now.
In the past to get Netflix to work on Linux you had to get Chrome installed, which at the time wasn't as easy as it sounds. It did not work in Firefox nor any other Linux browser.
It's not that using a command line is the problem. For the average Windows user, you just don't HAVE to use the command line. I've had to use the Windows command line maybe 3 times over the past 5 years? And all 3 times were for a weird issue with a flash drive being connected to a USB port interfering with Windows Update.
With my Linux experiences, every install required multiple uses of the command line. Heck, just google "linux nvidia driver install". The first step that shows up in the top box has 8 command line commands just to install the driver. How many command line steps are required to install an nVidia driver on Windows? Zero.
Which Linux distribution are you using? Slackware? Gentoo? Arch? Perhaps Ubuntu, Mint, Manjaro, Solus, Fedora, SUSE, Debian? CentOS, Red Hat?
You can't just say "I use Linux, and it's as easy as OS X," because Linux is just the kernel - how "easy" it is depends on the distribution. And here is the catch 22 for "Desktop Linux" - you can't just say "use Linux" without specifying which distribution, but if there is ever a point when desktop Linux becomes synonymous with one distribution, the fight is lost.
The fragmentation issue will never be "fixed," and it shouldn't be. The problem here is a communication issue, and that can be fixed. When someone complains about "all that command line stuff" don't just say "Linux isn't as bad as it used to be - because if you do Slackware or LFS - it's necessary, and both of those can be equally called "Linux." Try this - "There are certain distributions of Linux that make it easy to use, such as Ubuntu or Mint. If you want to dive in to the inner workings of your system, there are Linux distributions you can choose to do that, but if the command line frightens you, my experience is that these distributions make it unneeded for most things."
Chrome is avaliable as a .deb package which is very similar to Apple's .dmg package and installed using the GUI via something like Gdebi. Essentially every bit as simple to install as it is under Windows and once again the OS takes care of Chrome updates, checking each time just in case you don't want to apply an update for whatever reason.
One point worth mentioning is that the last time I used Ubuntu (admittedly 16.04) Gdebi wasn't installed by default, which I found exceptionally stupid.
'Sudo apt install gdebi' fixes that issue.