LG 48CX

Rkele

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i have an amazonbasics arm but i think the CX might be too heavy for it (arm is rated for 25.3 pounds/monitor weights 33)... may have to get your arm, as well.

thanks!
I would guess that the maximum load rating for the arm is with full reach, plus some safety margin too. So, if you keep the monitor close to the support, like probably almost everyone does, there shouldn't be a problem.
 
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Vega

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I took some measurements and made a really dumb graph for those of you interested in dialing in brightness without a meter. Used an i1 with the TV in ISF Expert Dark (warm 2) gamma 2.2 with PC icon, no other changes. I tried a bunch of different window sizes and settled on measuring these on a 50% one that is similar to my use case (browser window). Anyway, a OLED light of 40 is 120nits. After roughly 50 OLED light you hit the ABL wall full field.

If anyone else has an i1 who could corroborate this it would be great. Or if there's a way I can take better measurements I'm all ears.

EDIT: I'm also really happy with my TV's 5% grey uniformity. This is at max brightness and overexposed to really show the vertical bands but in real life it's very hard to see.
Just curious, why not test in game picture mode? That is what like 99% of PC users are going to be using.
 

SoCali

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Just curious, why not test in game picture mode? That is what like 99% of PC users are going to be using.
Game is super inaccurate + I thought there is no longer a input lag penalty between any of the picture modes as long as instant game response is enabled or input icon is set to PC?

Either way the difference between Game and ISF in terms of brightness when set to warm2 is single digits across measurements when I checked but I'll try again.

EDIT: Nvm, huge difference in mouse lag. This must be a bug with the CX because on my C9 I remember game like input lag regardless of picture mode with IGR enabled. I'll recheck the brightness.

EDIT2: Yeah Game picture mode set to warm2 (closest to 6500K but still off) is 1-2 nits dimmer across all measurements so the same chart applies roughly.
 
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Murzilka

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Never used Game mode on my C7. It looks like ass, and you can't calibrate it. If CX ISF has high input lag, then it is bad news for sure...
 

lors

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Game mode picture quality is the same as on any other mode on the C9 when instant game response is activated. This has to be the case on the CX aswell. If you dial in the same settings you use in game mode and copy them into other modes, it looks exactly the same. I went back and forth between the modes and there is zero difference ingame. Also zero lag difference with instant game response on the C9.
 

kasakka

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I tried to see if I can tell a difference in input lag when in PC mode and at 4K 60 Hz RGB or 4K 120 Hz 4:2:0. I can't. I thought the ISF had a bit more input lag but I just can't tell. Can't tell an image quality difference either if the same settings are used in same Game vs ISF mode.
 

Blackstone

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My mom ordered this set to watch mundane TV. I game from the couch on a 1080P plasma, 60Hz, and it is absolutely gorgeous. I can’t even imagine what this would be like on a desktop.

What is optimal viewing distance to this thing in a more nearfield, desktop gaming application? I know 4k is a lot of pixels but is it enough with this thing on a desk in my face, so to speak.
 

kasakka

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My mom ordered this set to watch mundane TV. I game from the couch on a 1080P plasma, 60Hz, and it is absolutely gorgeous. I can’t even imagine what this would be like on a desktop.

What is optimal viewing distance to this thing in a more nearfield, desktop gaming application? I know 4k is a lot of pixels but is it enough with this thing on a desk in my face, so to speak.
According to Is this retina? The CX 48" becomes "retina" at 37 inch / 94 cm viewing distance, meaning you can't see individual pixels. Personally I sit at 85-90cm and use 125% scaling because it gives me better text rendering at more comfortable font size, of course sacrificing desktop space.
 

elvn

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Well based on this info, I guess I'm sticking with my CRT's for another year. From the sounds of it, the combination of rich colors + scanning/strobing image + refresh rate flexibility is not available in OLED yet.

Like on my CRT, I rarely play at 60hz or 120hz, it's always somewhere in between, like 80hz or 90hz, maybe higher if it's a competitive game and I have some headroom.

It's certainly possible for LG to update the TV to have proper BFI at arbitrary refresh rates, but since hardly anybody's asking for it, I don't think it's going to happen
BFI as a tech can be independent of refresh rates on OLEDs using rolling scan and fractional refreshes at the pixel level, it just works best at 120fps-Hz minimum from reports. That probably is partly due to do with what I wrote below as a foundation.

==========================================

For very appreciable high Hz benefits with 120Hz displays imo you should be using at least 100fps average. To get full benefit you have to be running 120fps minimum (8.3ms frame) which give you a 50% blur reduction (halves the blur or doubles the motion clarity) compared to 60fps-hz's smearing blur. It also gets double the motion definition.

Non-BFI motion clarity increases
---------------------------------------------
That 120fps-Hz blur reduction is something like if you had a drill or motor running on a table and you had a detailed picture on that table, then you turned up the frequency/speed of the motor so that the table vibrated more. At 60fps-Hz it would look smearing moving all over the place, at 120fps-Hz it would look "fuzzy" like a high photoshop soften blur, "within the lines" or shadow masks of onscreen objects, characters, architectures, geology , skies, etc. for the most part. That is without BFI at all. This "soften blur" is most obvious in 1st/3rd person games while moving the whole game world around relative to you - at speed -. At other points during a game when moving the virtual camera around mouse looking, movement keying, or gamepad panning without doing large arcs or just nosing around something you are looking at, zoomed in scope micro movements, etc it really doesn't happen obnoxiously. So it's a mixture of fuzzy blur during faster FoV arcing periods and back to tighter/tight the rest of the time when using high enough frame rates without BFI.

High Fps + High Hz motion definition increases
-----------------------------------------------------------------
100fps-Hz average or 120fps-Hz minimum (optimally) also increases the motion definition. That means you are going to see more dots per dotted line, more unique pages in an animation flip book flipping twice as fast as 60fps-hz, and getting better pathing articulation, smoother movement. That applies to individual virtual objects and also to movement of the whole game world relative to you when mouse-looking, movement-keying, or gamepad panning.

CRTs vs High Hz at High FPS
------------------------------------------
Considering all of the other advancements including size of the screen, less bulk, perfect pixel geometery, higher resolution, HDR color volumes , etc it's more than a worthwhile tradeoff vs CRT (and having to manage/tweak CRTs internally as they lose their geometry settings over time and eventually start to die over time with blooming and/or fading). No you aren't going to have the same motion clarity/blur reduction as a CRT would if you are running a high hz OLED or LCD at 70fps - 80fps SOLID let alone AVERAGE. You also aren't going to be getting the higher motion defintion aspect of up to double the motion defintion at 120fps-Hz.

You'd optimally have to go up to 120fps minimum + BFI, or use the results I tried to describe above without BFI for less than pristine motion clarity (at speed). So either way you'd need very high frame rate averages (100fps-Hz or 120fps-hz average) or minimums (120fps minimum) if you wanted to get the most out of these types of high Hz displays.

I think most people would rather balance squeezing higher graphics settings vs. a "good" fps-Hz average with appreciable gains (100fps-Hz at least imo), and then rely on VRR to keep everything smooth. Unless you are playing a very un-demanding game like CS:go or stripping a game's graphics settings it's going to be tough or impossible to get 120fps minimums at 4k resolution. For some games it would be difficult to even get 100fps-Hz average without making some graphics settings compromises. I'm looking forward to seeing what the 7nm nvidia 3000 series (3080 or "3090" Ti) gpus can do later on , and what DLSS 2.0 titles are capable of eventually. Graphics ceilings are pretty arbitrary to begin with so they will eventually go up with more powerful gpus though.
 
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Vega

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Game is super inaccurate + I thought there is no longer a input lag penalty between any of the picture modes as long as instant game response is enabled or input icon is set to PC?

Either way the difference between Game and ISF in terms of brightness when set to warm2 is single digits across measurements when I checked but I'll try again.

EDIT: Nvm, huge difference in mouse lag. This must be a bug with the CX because on my C9 I remember game like input lag regardless of picture mode with IGR enabled. I'll recheck the brightness.

EDIT2: Yeah Game picture mode set to warm2 (closest to 6500K but still off) is 1-2 nits dimmer across all measurements so the same chart applies roughly.
I tested it with a high speed camera. There IS more input lag in any other picture mode outside of "Game", even with auto low latency mode (ALLM) turned on.

Some rumor started that "ALLM" turns all picture modes into game-mode input lag speed. That is NOT true. It would defeat the purpose of even having a "Game" picture mode that bypasses more processing.
 

kalston

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I tested it with a high speed camera. There IS more input lag in any other picture mode outside of "Game", even with auto low latency mode (ALLM) turned on.

Some rumor started that "ALLM" turns all picture modes into game-mode input lag speed. That is NOT true. It would defeat the purpose of even having a "Game" picture mode that bypasses more processing.
Yeah that makes more sense to me. So, does game mode really look as bad as some people claim?

I have an old colorimeter and I guess I can do some input lag testing with my phone so I'll be making my own tests either way.
 

kasakka

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Yeah that makes more sense to me. So, does game mode really look as bad as some people claim?

I have an old colorimeter and I guess I can do some input lag testing with my phone so I'll be making my own tests either way.
These are probably the same people who feel that anything less than perfect is "garbage". Game mode looks perfectly fine as long as you configure it more like the ISF modes.
 

SoCali

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I tested it with a high speed camera. There IS more input lag in any other picture mode outside of "Game", even with auto low latency mode (ALLM) turned on.

Some rumor started that "ALLM" turns all picture modes into game-mode input lag speed. That is NOT true. It would defeat the purpose of even having a "Game" picture mode that bypasses more processing.
Yeah there is a clear difference from just moving the mouse alone. The reason I never noticed when switching back and forth is it takes a bit for it to kick in when going from ISF to Game.

For the time being I'm using Game/Warm2 regardless of how inaccurate it potentially is. To the eye it doesn't really look all that different but both ISF and Game on my sample are way off in greyscale with a green tint.

EDIT: Pretty sure setting color space to "Auto" in PC mode is the closest to sRGB. Wide and Extended are clearly over saturated but I'll have to double check
 
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elvn

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Do you think reshade or nvidia freestyle's library of settings could help SDR games look any better beyond the TV's own settings and limitations in game mode (even if still not accurate) ?

How does game mode look in a properly developed HDR PC game as compared to SDR ?
 

mirkendargen

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Do you think reshade or nvidia freestyle's library of settings could help SDR games look any better beyond the TV's own settings and limitations in game mode (even if still not accurate) ?

How does game mode look in a properly developed HDR PC game as compared to SDR ?
Not sure where this is coming from that you "can't calibrate" game mode. Maybe autocalibration or saving a LUT profile doesn't work in it (I don't have the equipment or license to try) but you can absolutely change all of the extensive white balance settings, change the gamma, etc. And for PC use beyond that nothing stops you from calibrating in the form of an ICC profile.
 
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I would certainly keep my CRTs too if I still had any. Good lord I just switched back to gsync to play Prey since I can't do a locked 120/100fps and the motion clairty difference going from BFI back to sample and hold is really jarring.
I believe it.

Instead of LG doing what I'm talking about: enabling proper BFI at any refresh rate between 60 and 120, I could see them skipping right ahead to figure out a BFI + Gsync solution. This is already being done in a few PC monitors, but I haven't read many reviews to see how well it works in practice. I know ASUS' freesync + strobing monitors had some pretty significant issues.

So it's a pretty big technical hurdle and I would be surprised to see it anytime soon.
 

mirkendargen

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I believe it.

Instead of LG doing what I'm talking about: enabling proper BFI at any refresh rate between 60 and 120, I could see them skipping right ahead to figure out a BFI + Gsync solution. This is already being done in a few PC monitors, but I haven't read many reviews to see how well it works in practice. I know ASUS' freesync + strobing monitors had some pretty significant issues.

So it's a pretty big technical hurdle and I would be surprised to see it anytime soon.
There's two fundamental problems with that and I can't see how it could possibly work in practice without at least one compromise. With any form of VRR, you don't know when the next frame is coming, so how do you know how long to black the screen for? The solution to this is to always buffer one frame, but then that adds input lag. Then with a varying speed of BFI you're going to also have varying brightness. This COULD be compensated for by having logic to brighten/dim the screen during the periods it's lit based on the refresh rate to attempt to maintain a consistent perceived brightness.
 
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You might be able without buffering a frame, and just adjust strobe timing based on the previous frame time. This would lead to more "errors", so the user would have to cap their frame rate closer to their minimum frame rate so the monitor isn't caught off-guard by the variability.

As for brightness, that's also been talked about, and of course has tradeoffs depending on how you deal with it: https://display-corner.epfl.ch/index.php/Combining_variable_refresh_rate_and_strobed_backlight

So yeah, even with all that, I don't know if you can get the image consistent enough to not be noticeable by the user.

I've heard there are a few Gsync monitors that do have an option for simultaneous strobing? I don't know which models though, so I'm having trouble finding reviews for them.
 

mirkendargen

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You might be able without buffering a frame, and just adjust strobe timing based on the previous frame time. This would lead to more "errors", so the user would have to cap their frame rate closer to their minimum frame rate so the monitor isn't caught off-guard by the variability.

As for brightness, that's also been talked about, and of course has tradeoffs depending on how you deal with it: https://display-corner.epfl.ch/index.php/Combining_variable_refresh_rate_and_strobed_backlight

So yeah, even with all that, I don't know if you can get the image consistent enough to not be noticeable by the user.

I've heard there are a few Gsync monitors that do have an option for simultaneous strobing? I don't know which models though, so I'm having trouble finding reviews for them.
I only remember one of the first ASUS Gsync monitors being able to do it (because it was 3d vision certified also) and it was some sort of specific order of applying settings that basically bugged it into doing a backlight strobe with Gsync on, and then it had the brightness problem too. It would basically just pulse the backlight for a set period every time a new frame arrived, whenever it arrived.
 

MistaSparkul

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I had the Asus VG27BQ with ELMB Sync and it managed to not have any brightness fluctuations even with wildly varying frame rates. The monitor however had so much strobe crosstalk it was basically worthless so I returned it.

On the statement that game mode looks like ass. It kinda does if you do nothing to it, but I mean you guys do realize you can tweak all the options in the picture mode right? Gamma, contrast, brightness, white point, are ALL adjustable in game mode....so just tweak it to make it look closer to other modes ffs. If you just switch to game mode and forget it well that's kinda your fault then.🙄
 
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lors

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On the statement that game mode looks like ass. It kinda does if you do nothing to it, but I mean you guys do realize you can tweak all the options in the picture mode right? Gamma, contrast, brightness, white point, are ALL adjustable in game mode....so just tweak it to make it look closer to other modes ffs. If you just switch to game mode and forget it well that's kinda your fault then.🙄
This. And most important would be setting the color temperature to warm 2 in the white balance setting at first. Even then there are some people who like to use middle or even cool, turning their OLED into a blue ocean.
 

Murzilka

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How does game mode look in a properly developed HDR PC game as compared to SDR ?
On the older C7 it looks awful (for me unusable) both in HDR and SDR gaming modes. Also, it is impossible to replicate the ISF settings in the game mode on C7. You can only tweak Gamma and Color Temperature, other settings are locked down, so it's not possible to match the image quality to ISF preset. On the C9 or CX disaplays it may be different. It would be awesome if you could set the same settings for the game mode as for ISF on the CX.

Also, my ISF preset looks awesome also because I manually calibrated it. The display has amazing Color Management System that allows you calibrate it very nicely manually on the hardware level. The C9s support auto calibration, which is the same thing, except the calibrator does all the work for you and more precisely. The CX, as I understand it, doesn't support the automatic calibration via AUTOCAL, so, the question remains does the gaming mode on the CX allows access to the Color Management System or is it locked like on the previous models. My guess is it is disabled in the Game Mode, and you can access it only in ISF presets. So, real usable preset will be the ISF. Now the question is does it have 50 or 30ms input lag :cry:

Yeah, I always fucking forget to mention that I love my ISF preset so much because it is calibrated and I can't calibrate the Game preset, thus it doesn't look so good for me. That's for SDR. I haven't calibrated the HDR presets, because the Cinema HDR preset (I think that is Cinema preset) looks absolutely stunning by default without any calibration. The gaming HDR preset looks like complete ass, disgusting, the display looks like a cheap TN gaming monitor with blue tint everywhere in that preset. And of course, half the controls are disabled and it's not possible to match it to the Cinema preset.
 

MistaSparkul

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On the older C7 it looks awful (for me unusable) both in HDR and SDR gaming modes. Also, it is impossible to replicate the ISF settings in the game mode on C7. You can only tweak Gamma and Color Temperature, other settings are locked down, so it's not possible to match the image quality to ISF preset. On the C9 or CX disaplays it may be different. It would be awesome if you could set the same settings for the game mode as for ISF on the CX.

Also, my ISF preset looks awesome also because I manually calibrated it. The display has amazing Color Management System that allows you calibrate it very nicely manually on the hardware level. The C9s support auto calibration, which is the same thing, except the calibrator does all the work for you and more precisely. The CX, as I understand it, doesn't support the automatic calibration via AUTOCAL, so, the question remains does the gaming mode on the CX allows access to the Color Management System or is it locked like on the previous models. My guess is it is disabled in the Game Mode, and you can access it only in ISF presets. So, real usable preset will be the ISF. Now the question is does it have 50 or 30ms input lag :cry:

Yeah, I always fucking forget to mention that I love my ISF preset so much because it is calibrated and I can't calibrate the Game preset, thus it doesn't look so good for me. That's for SDR. I haven't calibrated the HDR presets, because the Cinema HDR preset (I think that is Cinema preset) looks absolutely stunning by default without any calibration. The gaming HDR preset looks like complete ass, disgusting, the display looks like a cheap TN gaming monitor with blue tint everywhere in that preset. And of course, half the controls are disabled and it's not possible to match it to the Cinema preset.
CX now supports AutoCal and using game mode does not lock you out of color management system. And you even have access to 22 point white balance. You basically took your experience with the C7 then made a blanket statement about all the LG OLEDs.
 

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Here is what I got during my first attempt calibrating this with i1 pro. This is for isf dark room profile for SDR usage in Windows using two point white calibration, color temp warm 2, OLED light 40, latest firmware. R G B values are 0,2 and -10 respectively. Resultant profile attached. Gotta love that contrast ratio :) Not going to do HDR because a. Not sure of the process and from what I read it's way more involved and b. Cinema mode looks good enough for most use cases. Hope this helps someone though note profiles and WP adjustments vary by sample.

Profile : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y9kMWKoIrjJl60rWfm44dibsqx2oxE0A/view?usp=sharing
 

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elvn

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Here is what I got during my first attempt calibrating this with i1 pro. This is for isf dark room profile for SDR usage in Windows using two point white calibration, color temp warm 2, OLED light 40, latest firmware. R G B values are 0,2 and -10 respectively. Resultant profile attached. Gotta love that contrast ratio :) Not going to do HDR because a. Not sure of the process and from what I read it's way more involved and b. Cinema mode looks good enough for most use cases. Hope this helps someone though note profiles and WP adjustments vary by sample.

Profile : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y9kMWKoIrjJl60rWfm44dibsqx2oxE0A/view?usp=sharing
Cool thanks for sharing.

Dark room is best. I used to always scratch my head when people would calibrate their monitor in a dark room and then use the same settings in a bright room or room with varying lighting conditions. I keep about 5 sets of named OSD settings on my FALD VA living room tv, three of them mainly for room lighting variation. The HDR standard uses absolute values made for viewing in a dim to dark theater/home theater environment, and OLED looks better in dim to dark lighting environments in general too.

Regarding HDR calibraiton - I've heard on a few sites in the past that it's difficult and almost impossible to calibrate HDR accurately throughout the full range on LG OLEDs anyway due to % window limitations, ABL varying the levels too much, and that they are WRGB. That may have changed or perhaps there is a base range you can work with as foundation or something. If anyone is aware feel free to post info. :)
 

Murzilka

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CX now supports AutoCal and using game mode does not lock you out of color management system. And you even have access to 22 point white balance. You basically took your experience with the C7 then made a blanket statement about all the LG OLEDs.
Oh, wow, if it supports the AutoCal, then this is another story. Of course. Just get an X-Rite i1Display Pro and you are golden.
Also, I specifically stated that I was talking about C7.
This is a big plus for me that it now supports the hardware calibration. This display is my plan B in case all the Acer Predators X38s are flawed. Hardware calibrated 120hz 4k OLED, oh man... That's freaking hot.
 

MistaSparkul

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Oh, wow, if it supports the AutoCal, then this is another story. Of course. Just get an X-Rite i1Display Pro and you are golden.
Also, I specifically stated that I was talking about C7.
This is a big plus for me that it now supports the hardware calibration. This display is my plan B in case all the Acer Predators X38s are flawed. Hardware calibrated 120hz 4k OLED, oh man... That's freaking hot.
That's what I said, you're basing this off the C7 experience. You wanted to use ISF mode on the CX with the hopes that it has low input but it's really not necessary anymore.
 

Murzilka

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That's what I said, you're basing this off the C7 experience. You wanted to use ISF mode on the CX with the hopes that it has low input but it's really not necessary anymore.
I rather contemplate, basing off my C7 experience, but with no blanket statements about all the LG OLEDs.
 

Murzilka

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It looks like game mode does lock the gamut selection to auto though.
It doesn't matter, if the Game Mode can be calibrated. On my C7 AUTO is sRGB. But when I calibrated I set it to Wide, since it was slightly larger than sRGB color space and was easier to calibrate. The AUTO has slightly smaller gamut than sRGB. It was hard to pull some colors that were too deeply inside the sRGB triangle... But it was obvious that AUTO was supposed to be sRGB.
 

MistaSparkul

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I rather contemplate, basing off my C7 experience, but with no blanket statements about all the LG OLEDs.
Alright fair enough. It's just that from your posts about the C7 then following it up with saying you wanna use ISF mode on the CX made me think you were already writing off game mode on the CX as equally bad to the C7.
 

Murzilka

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Alright fair enough. It's just that from your posts about the C7 then following it up with saying you wanna use ISF mode on the CX made me think you were already writing off game mode on the CX as equally bad to the C7.
I would right it off if Game Mode couldn't be calibrated and didn't have the Color Management System. But it looks like it does, so everything is more than just fine with the Gaming Mode on the CX.
I would just like to see the proof that exactly the Game Mode can be calibrated, and not some other preset, and if it does, can it be calibrated in HDR format via the Calman AutoCal...
 

MistaSparkul

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I would right it off if Game Mode couldn't be calibrated and didn't have the Color Management System. But it looks like it does, so everything is more than just fine with the Gaming Mode on the CX.
I would just like to see the proof that exactly the Game Mode can be calibrated, and not some other preset, and if it does, can it be calibrated in HDR format via the Calman AutoCal...
Pay for my calman license and I'll try for you :p
 

mirkendargen

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I would right it off if Game Mode couldn't be calibrated and didn't have the Color Management System. But it looks like it does, so everything is more than just fine with the Gaming Mode on the CX.
I would just like to see the proof that exactly the Game Mode can be calibrated, and not some other preset, and if it does, can it be calibrated in HDR format via the Calman AutoCal...
https://kb.portrait.com/help/calman-home-for-lg-walkthrough Calman certainly says you can in step 4:

1594509396333.png


Now whether I want to spend $145 for a license...
 
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IMG_9641.jpg
IMG_9647.jpg


Got this thing set up on an ErgoTech desk monitor arm, with a 22" Dell monitor in portrait next to it. No stand and flush with the desk. Perfect as the stand places this thing too high.

While the contrast and picture quality is fantastic on this, 48" is still TOO BIG for normal desktop usage. (Plus at 4k the PPI sucks )

So I am still using my 32" 4k for desktop & web usage, while using the CX for gaming only (Which its really really great at)


If they could make a 38" 4k version of this with display port: then its the perfect monitor :)
 
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