LG 48CX

mirkendargen

Limp Gawd
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A quick google shows that guy was slandering the C8 range years earlier, again pushing Sony. On top of that seems to have conspiracy theories and disabling comments on stuff that pointed out where he was wrong...just not worth anyone's time IMO when you can read about any issues on AVSForum, Rtings or HDTVTest tests, with actual test results and comparisons.

Removed the video from the comment so nobody gives this guy more traffic.

For real... DTS = "Dolby True Sound"? Yeah ok! And I couldn't even comprehend the gibberish he was going on about 40Gbps only supporting h.264 and you needed 48Gbps for h.265 with Dolby Vision. Just....what? None of those terms meant what he thought (or was trying to speedtalk the viewer into thinking) they meant.
 

Sancus

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I wish people would do some research on a youtuber before blindly posting videos, alot of youtubers don't do any proper research and just post long videos full of borderline nonsense rambling. Honestly if it isn't HDTVTest or a big tech property like LinusTechTips I wouldn't even consider trusting it, and even then, you have to take the big tech youtuber videos with a grain of salt as their audience is rarely knowledgeable people so they take a lot of liberties with technical explanations.
 

elvn

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He did focus on the "lightened blacks" in games with VRR enabled on both the C9 and the CX though, and that is a valid complaint.

As I understand it from AVS forum posts and other review sites --
Near blacks on movies etc, had flashing on the LG OLEDs so as a workaround they made it so that there was dithering on near blacks even if the rest of the video signal wasn't dithered. This dithering "noise" prevented the flashing. Then they realized that the near black fix wasn't working properly in game mode (I think it added input lag) - so they later changed it in firmware to be flattening blacks. However ever since they added VRR capability, whenever you enable VRR the flattening blacks near black fix is bypassed. According to reports this makes near blacks and blacks around white objects look bright and a pale black for an oled .. and some have an odd gradient around them. Some people intially thought it was a gamma issue but from what I read it's only a near black issue so changing the gamma to compensate will probably screw up the rest of the screen since only the near black areas are "off".

It's been mentioned on HDTVtest and a few reviews, as well as the avsforum threads for the C9 and the CX so it sounds like a legitimate problem. That doesn't mean that it can't be addressed and fixed eventually but it's been a problem since the C9 got VRR last november 2019 apparently.
 

tybert7

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Is anyone curious what Vizio does with their 55" oled this year? We've gotten almost no info on what the so called "pro game engine" is going to do or how it performs, but if the cx 48 takes too long to launch or is inflated in price and the vizio 55 oled drops and is better visuals than expected then I might go with that too. A lot of ifs in that though.

I know panasonic is supposed to have the best oled in terms of raw picture quality due to the special cooling letting it get higher peak brightness, but who knows, maybe vizio will surprise us... or not.
 

Lateralus

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One site that I visited tonight had an ETA of 6/19 for the 48CX. I’m hoping that that’s based on internal updates from LG or their distributors and not old info that’s incorrect and outdated. Fingers crossed.
 

wooj

Limp Gawd
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One site that I visited tonight had an ETA of 6/19 for the 48CX. I’m hoping that that’s based on internal updates from LG or their distributors and not old info that’s incorrect and outdated. Fingers crossed.
amazon is showing delivery date of july 22nd to august 10th
 

Lateralus

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Thanks, guys. That’s not too bad of a wait. I need to figure out what I’m going to do with my 55B7 anyway. I’ll most likely give my dad our 50” LCD that’s in the basement since the plasma that I bought him years ago seems to be on its way out, and then put the B7 down there. It’s the perfect viewing environment for an OLED.
 

N4CR

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That doesn't mean that it can't be addressed and fixed eventually but it's been a problem since the C9 got VRR last november 2019 apparently.
From the lag increases with higher resolution and limitations in processing (and audio and a few other weird downgrades from C9), maybe we are looking at some OLED limitations but mostly FPGA speed limitations more than anything else... that is worrying to be honest as they might not be able to provide a fix via firmware, hence the same issues remaining for so long.
 

elvn

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the 55" and 65" sizes are PUA on LG's u.s. site but the 48" on LG's site is PUB.

From the lag increases with higher resolution and limitations in processing (and audio and a few other weird downgrades from C9), maybe we are looking at some OLED limitations but mostly FPGA speed limitations more than anything else... that is worrying to be honest as they might not be able to provide a fix via firmware, hence the same issues remaining for so long.

Well, the near-black fix is reportedly being bypassed in game mode with VRR enabled - so you could always turn VRR off for now I guess. Maybe with a 3080ti running a 1080p or 1440p version of DLSS2.0 to 4k with it's own AA instead of regular AA performance hit would give enough fps to stay at 115 - 117 fps cap in some games so that VRR wouldn't be needed. At least for some games.

Hopefully they will fix the issue. Black depth is one of the biggest features of OLED. Having grey-blacks and gradients around bright objects on black backgrounds as reported would be as bad as having FALD glow halos.
 
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caffix

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Well, I've gone ahead and ordered one of these bad boys. It'll be replacing a Philips BDM4065UC, so a bit of a quality and size upgrade. I'll be mounting it on a Fitueyes desk stand so I can adjust the height up a bit.

For a large screen, I highly recommend using Windows PowerToys and FancyZones to help with quickly laying out windows on large screens. It takes a few minutes to figure out how to use it, but it works really well for web browsing and having multiple windows open on a big screen.
 
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the 55" and 65" sizes are PUA on LG's u.s. site but the 48" and 77" on LG's site is PUB.



Well, the near-black fix is reportedly being bypassed in game mode with VRR enabled - so you could always turn VRR off for now I guess. Maybe with a 3080ti running a 1080p or 1440p version of DLSS2.0 to 4k with it's own AA instead of regular AA performance hit would give enough fps to stay at 115 - 117 fps cap in some games so that VRR wouldn't be needed. At least for some games.

Hopefully they will fix the issue. Black depth is one of the biggest features of OLED. Having grey-blacks and gradients around bright objects on black backgrounds as reported would be as bad as having FALD glow halos.

elvn, are you saying essentially we're going to have to choose between VRR and good blacks, but can't have both unless there's an update? Would you say that would downgrade black levels to a typical non OLED IPS panel, or would the black levels with VRR still be better than that? Also, apparently there's some issue with lag too that N4CR pointed out? I'm beginning to second guess my potential purchase of this TV. At the same time, I don't really know what the alternative "best display" would be.
 
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elvn

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I'm just repeating what I heard on the AVS forum threads. I posted it days ago in this thread with quotes from the avsforum threads.
Just mentioning a few things again in case they got lost in the wash......
---------------------------

VRR Near Blacks reportedly have nasty gradients around whites
====================================================
I'm still not convinced that adjusting the gamma will fix the VRR "brighter near blacks" issue since in some reports the issue presents itself as gradients around white areas, . They are saying something weird is going on where the dithering is turned off and bright gradients areas show up around white objects on an otherwise pure black screen.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-o...9-dedicated-gaming-thread-consoles-pc-31.html

"I've actually just noticed it for the first time over the weekend, and it really stuck out and smacked me in the face. It really bugged me. So much so, that I disabled G-sync for the time being. The game was Ori and the Will of the Wisps. The gamma is all jacked up when G-S ync is on, highly visible in the map screen as posterization in the gradients surrounding anything white (like an icon, or the cursor) on the otherwise pure black screen. The same thing happens during gameplay in the Mouldwood Depths area in game that takes place in almost pure darkness; nasty gradients surrounding the illuminated areas. Pure black is pure black (no glow) but it's obvious there's something wonky going on.


https://hardforum.com/threads/lg-48cx.1991077/post-1044604296

View attachment 249062

What exactly is Dithering fix? It's not used in Game Mode anyway but just curious.
---------------------------------------------------
FlatPanelsHD Review: LG CX OLED 24 Mar 2020 | Rasmus Larsen

"In 2018, some owners of 2018 OLED TVs started to experience occasional brightness flashing when the panel transitioned out of black. LG implemented a solution in its 2019 OLED panel but as noted in our review of last year's LG C9 the solution reduced resolution in the darkest tones, which led to banding in some instances. In 2020, LG has tweaked the dithering (note that the white subpixel is off for most RGB clusters in this macro photo of a full-grey screen) to make it less visible to the eye and based on our time with LG CX this tweak makes the effect less visible - not perceptible from a distance - and banding is reduced to a minimum. We did not experience any flashing issues either."

-----------------------------------------
LG had a problem with flashing occurring on near blacks. In 2019 they tried one solution but it reduced the resolution in the darkest tones which resulted in some banding. Later In the C9 and the CX they tweaked the dithering of near blacks. Essentially they are dithering~adding noise to near blacks to eliminate the flashing issue even if the rest of the signal is 1:1 color resolution and doesn't require dithering anywhere else (e.g. 10bit signal sent to the 10bit panel or 12bit signal sent to the 10bit panel). What it sounds like from what I've read so far is that in GAME mode the near black "flashing fix" dithering isn't applied (it doesn't work for some reason or perhaps would add lag?), so they instead applied a black flattening method. However it sounds like the problem now is that VRR bypasses the "flashing fix" alternative for Game Mode - the black flattening method, which from reports has some bad results like heightened blacks and/or strange light gradients around white objects.
 
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Murzilka

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Exactly
the 55" and 65" sizes are PUA on LG's u.s. site but the 48" on LG's site is PUB.



Well, the near-black fix is reportedly being bypassed in game mode with VRR enabled - so you could always turn VRR off for now I guess. Maybe with a 3080ti running a 1080p or 1440p version of DLSS2.0 to 4k with it's own AA instead of regular AA performance hit would give enough fps to stay at 115 - 117 fps cap in some games so that VRR wouldn't be needed. At least for some games.

Hopefully they will fix the issue. Black depth is one of the biggest features of OLED. Having grey-blacks and gradients around bright objects on black backgrounds as reported would be as bad as having FALD glow halos.
Exactly. After I spent some time researching info about this issue couple days ago, I pretty much wrote off the list the CX OLED as well as any LG OLED starting with C8 because they all exhibit this problem, which by my humble opinion is on the same level as IPS glow. Well, almost. My current C7 does not have this problem. It has banding but I got used to that. Although if I never had an OLED before, I would probably get it now, because, you know, HDR on OLED is porn. And again, how would it look like with that low level dithering in the near blacks? I don't know, I've never seen that in person. I judge OLED HDR by my C7 which doesn't have issues with near blacks tones except banding and looks stunning. What I've seen as demonstration of this issue definitely visually sucks. The "fix" looks just as bad, imho, just in a different way.
 

elvn

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Exactly

Exactly. After I spent some time researching info about this issue couple days ago, I pretty much wrote off the list the CX OLED as well as any LG OLED starting with C8 because they all exhibit this problem, which by my humble opinion is on the same level as IPS glow. Well, almost. My current C7 does not have this problem. It has banding but I got used to that. Although if I never had an OLED before, I would probably get it now, because, you know, HDR on OLED is porn. And again, how would it look like with that low level dithering in the near blacks? I don't know, I've never seen that in person. I judge OLED HDR by my C7 which doesn't have issues with near blacks tones except banding and looks stunning. What I've seen as demonstration of this issue definitely visually sucks. The "fix" looks just as bad, imho, just in a different way.

The problem isn't really that they use near black dithering to prevent the flashing on near blacks.. or later near-black flattening in game mode/input , etc... the problem that is being reported is that the work-around fixes are bypassed when VRR is active and that it makes grey blacks and or weird gradients around bright objects on black backgrounds. So again the fix is preferable, it sounds like when VRR is enabled it is skipping the fix.
 

Murzilka

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The problem isn't really that they use near black dithering to prevent the flashing on near blacks.. or later near-black flattening in game mode/input , etc... the problem that is being reported is that the work-around fixes are bypassed when VRR is active and that it makes grey blacks and or weird gradients around bright objects on black backgrounds. So again the fix is preferable, it sounds like when VRR is enabled it is skipping the fix.
I know that. It is full of problems though - the fix doesn't work with VRR, but when it does it adds lag. Sucks either way.
 
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elvn

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It's confusing since they changed the workaround so there are two workarounds apparently. Now that I re-read the quotes.. one near-black fix was near black dithering but it lowered the resolution too much in game input/mode (not added input lag afaik) so they switched it to flattening of blacks. However when they later added VRR support it was found that when VRR is active that it bypasses the black flattening "near-blacks flashing fix" causing grey blacks and weird gradient halos.. at least from reports of C9 and CX users on avs forum using VRR.

It should be easy for owners to test on games with bright areas on black backgrounds with VRR on and VRR off (in HDR games in particular).
 

lors

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VRR raised blacks were never a dealbreaker for me. Turning on HDR in windows raising the blacks much more IMO. For HDR and VRR I play all the time with brightness to 48 and blacks are just black without crushing shadow details too much, at least when the games itself gamma or HDR-implementation isn't fucked up.
 
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elvn

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This is not a global raised blacks issue from what I have read. I am only going by the avsforum posts but they are saying the problem isn't that all blacks on the screen are all lighter, which would prob have allowed you to adjust settings to compensate for it somewhat. They are saying that the near-black fix is being bypassed when VRR is active, so that near blacks around white/bright objects on black backgrounds make the area around them grey-black and they apparently sometimes have weird gradients/banding around them. This is the edges of bright objects in dark areas.. almost like a fald glow which would really suck since those are some of the biggest advantages of using an oled - avoiding FALD halos with per pixel contrast and having ultra deep black levels. From reports this has been the case on the C9 ever since VRR was added oct-nov 2019 and it is reported to still be the case on the CX so it sounds like a VRR + near black fix problem that hasn't been fixed yet, assuming it can be.

It should be easy to test by turning VRR on and off in a highly contrasted game, especially a HDR game.
 
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SixFootDuo

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https://www.acesdirect.nl/product/15016708/club3d_displayport_14_to_hdmi_4k120hz_hdr_/CAC-1085/

there are two of them, this one and another one launching very soon.

While it's true Display Port has a lower bandwidth, it does use compression that still results in 4:4:4 @ 4K@120hz

Some more links:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1453...onverter?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

https://insights.club-3d.com/thread/displayport-1-4-to-hdmi-2-1-active-adapter/

This is exciting news for us C9 and CX users.

From what I am reading, their shouldn't be any additional latency introduced.
 

mirkendargen

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https://www.acesdirect.nl/product/15016708/club3d_displayport_14_to_hdmi_4k120hz_hdr_/CAC-1085/

there are two of them, this one and another one launching very soon.

While it's true Display Port has a lower bandwidth, it does use compression that still results in 4:4:4 @ 4K@120hz

Some more links:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1453...onverter?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

https://insights.club-3d.com/thread/displayport-1-4-to-hdmi-2-1-active-adapter/

This is exciting news for us C9 and CX users.

From what I am reading, their shouldn't be any additional latency introduced.
The Club 3d one at least won't support VRR though (at least initially).
 

SixFootDuo

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The Club 3d one at least won't support VRR though (at least initially).


My nVidia 3090 is already paid for, I just need to wait until it's released and get it from Microcenter. I have $1500 credit waiting on me, I might have to add a few hundred.

Some people on various forums are saying it's going to be $2400 like the Titan's are / were, no ... it won't be. It's already being said that the 3090 will have less expensive non-ECC memory and thus much cheaper. I hope the 3080 ti is around $999 and the 3090 is around $1500.

I am really REALLY excited about being able to game / desktop @ 4K-120hz
 

dpoverlord

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My nVidia 3090 is already paid for, I just need to wait until it's released and get it from Microcenter. I have $1500 credit waiting on me, I might have to add a few hundred.

Some people on various forums are saying it's going to be $2400 like the Titan's are / were, no ... it won't be. It's already being said that the 3090 will have less expensive non-ECC memory and thus much cheaper. I hope the 3080 ti is around $999 and the 3090 is around $1500.

I am really REALLY excited about being able to game / desktop @ 4K-120hz
That's my goal too
 

Term-X

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Cancelled in Canada. All Canadian stores have been removing product page and cancelling pre-orders. LG has told them that they can't due to 'COVID'. Not sure if its permanent or temporary.
 

imsirovic5

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Is it just an error on my end, or has this thread for some reason disappeared from main "display" forum?
 

N4CR

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Cancelled in Canada. All Canadian stores have been removing product page and cancelling pre-orders. LG has told them that they can't due to 'COVID'. Not sure if its permanent or temporary.
Woah hope that's not a global pull then.
 

Murzilka

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I think that if you're really crazy about getting this monitor, you can order it from Poland as of now.
 

sirsad

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Cancelled in Canada. All Canadian stores have been removing product page and cancelling pre-orders. LG has told them that they can't due to 'COVID'. Not sure if its permanent or temporary.
It is still up at B&H and it now has a top seller trophy!
1592338843400.png
 

mirkendargen

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It is still up at B&H and it now has a top seller trophy!
View attachment 254119
Yeah LG still has it on their official US page too: https://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-oled48cxpub-oled-4k-tv

I'm going to be annoyed if it does end up cancelled because for awhile now I could have bought (and still can) a 55" CX for $1450, but I really want a 48" because it's really pushing the max distance for my desk and I don't want to deal with having to move my desk and get a floor mount or something. And the 48" is the same DPI as my current monitors (32" 1440p and 24" 1080p) so if I end up wanting to use some DPI scaling I can set it uniformly across all of them and it will look good.
 

Gatecrasher3000

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Cancelled in Canada. All Canadian stores have been removing product page and cancelling pre-orders. LG has told them that they can't due to 'COVID'. Not sure if its permanent or temporary.
Danng... businesses are just canceling product orders because they have no idea of when they are going to get them?
Don't know about the US, but international shipping in Canada is F'ed right now, still waiting for some EU and China products I ordered in March..
 

Sancus

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Don't know about the US, but international shipping in Canada is F'ed right now, still waiting for some EU and China products I ordered in March..

It's only this bad if you're relying on Canada Post, UPS and Fedex aren't that backed up. That said, yeah it's probably gonna cost a couple hundred bucks in shipping to get this TV from the US by Fedex/UPS, but some people seem to really be in a hurry to get it. I'm honestly just sitting back and waiting until prices come down and availability is widespread.
 

Armenius

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BB now has the 48" LG available for order
You need to provide a link if you say something like that.

The product page isn't refreshing for me when I select 48" from the size pulldown. I pulled the link out of the script from the HTML and it works. If you try to preorder I would check your cart beforehand to make sure it's the same product.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-48-...v-smart-oled-with-hdr/6416732.p?skuId=6416732

It says, "Get it by Thu., Jul 9" for my shipping address.
 

imsirovic5

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You need to provide a link if you say something like that.

The product page isn't refreshing for me when I select 48" from the size pulldown. I pulled the link out of the script from the HTML and it works. If you try to preorder I would check your cart beforehand to make sure it's the same product.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-48-...v-smart-oled-with-hdr/6416732.p?skuId=6416732

It says, "Get it by Thu., Jul 9" for my shipping address.

Same - FREE Shipping: Get it by Thu, Jul 9 (NJ)
 
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