LG subpixels are all actually white LEDs, 3 of them just have color filters on them. The rtings test showed pretty clearly that red burns in the fastest on LG OLEDs.
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LG 48CX
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LG subpixels are all actually white LEDs, 3 of them just have color filters on them. The rtings test showed pretty clearly that red burns in the fastest on LG OLEDs.
N4CR
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Must have been older tech then when they had individually coloured pixels.
Strange red goes first though, very unusual as if it's just a colour filter, they are also nothing new.
Yeah, and I believe that they have increased the red subpixel size since the rtings test, which used 2017 panels. So in fact, the panels we are all buying have gone through multiple incremental improvements, and the rtings test is probably much worse than what a 2019 or 2020 panel experiences.
I can't find any citation for it, but I'm pretty sure the reason is that the white LED spectrum output is not even, and the color filters block different amounts of light, so the red filter simply blocks more of the white LED output than the others, necessitating more output for the same brightness which increases aging etc.
Since no one has done practical tests on 2019 panels, it is hard to say if red is actually still the worst or if LG has fully compensated by now.
N4CR
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You're probably right.
It would have to absorb both blue and green which are higher photon energy than red.
Green only does blue and red, blue only green and red.
Red thus gets the hardest job as it has to absorb the most energy - it makes sense now. Power densities must be reasonably high too, I'd love to see a measurement of size and output of a white subpixel...
That's different. 120 Hz BFI is to combat sample and hold blur. It's a key feature we almost got last year, but then for some reason didn't.
I like how they’re specifically advertising 4K 120hz on the 48CX booth at CES. They may be allowing 4:2:0 4K 120hz like someone mentioned earlier. That should be fine till we get the HDMI 2.1 GPUs. I already run my C9 @ 4:2:2 since the “console” gaming mode shows much less banding than the “pc” 4:4:4 mode which has been proven is a better overall gaming experience from multiple tests. Didn’t notice a spick of difference after using 4:4:4 for months previously. Doubt I’d mind going down to 4:2:0. Pretty sure I would notice the extra 60hz more than a bit more color compression. Guessing HDR games would be a no-go though.
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Finally someone actually talked to a rep.
Talked about some of the improvements on the alpha 3 processor. The part about image optimizations that improve over time was interesting. Why not take what is learned over time from AI and improve things via software updates vs some static performance forever.
Also, he confirmed that input lag is sub 13ms, and can get below 6 if running at 120fps.
Talked about some of the improvements on the alpha 3 processor. The part about image optimizations that improve over time was interesting. Why not take what is learned over time from AI and improve things via software updates vs some static performance forever.
Also, he confirmed that input lag is sub 13ms, and can get below 6 if running at 120fps.
4:4:4 matters for desktop use only really, where you can encounter stuff like red text on solid black background (text becomes blurry) and so on. In games you never really see the effects of reduced color resolution so the lack of 4:4:4 is not a huge loss.
Yes, this is LG's proprietary OLED technology and LG really struck gold with it. Other manufacturers can only buy them from LG and because of how good it is Samsung is trying its hardest to make the waters murky by calling their TV's QLED's, which are actually nothing new.
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For what it's worth, I haven't seen anything to confirm Ampere will support HDMI 2.1. That being said, I'd be genuinely shocked if they didn't.
If it doesn't they can enjoy not getting a sale from me. It's mandatory at this point.
delita
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Same here. I haven't owned a Radeon in a long time but I'd go team Red if they put out a card faster than my current 2080Ti that has HDMI 2.1 even if NV puts out a much faster card without.
Armenius
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That football example shown to demonstrate improvements in image processing looks horribly oversaturated...
imsirovic5
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Early review:
https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/lg-cx-48-inch-oled-oled48cxpua
Confirms 4 HDMI 2.1 inputs (three side and one rear) "LG has told me that the TV can do 120fps at 4K using 4:4:4 for greater colour depth." (once video cards supporting HDMI 2.1 are out.
https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/lg-cx-48-inch-oled-oled48cxpua
Confirms 4 HDMI 2.1 inputs (three side and one rear) "LG has told me that the TV can do 120fps at 4K using 4:4:4 for greater colour depth." (once video cards supporting HDMI 2.1 are out.
Which isn't shocking, given the C9 series already supported HDMI 2.1.
N4CR
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Can current C9 models actually do component?
I want to run PS2 for DVD source if possible and also emulate PS1 which creates unusual demands on most scalars, basically 240p at low Hz support is needed for some titles. Not all TVs can do it (most can't that I try).
But what is this? Looking on LG website for C9 it says;
I want to run PS2 for DVD source if possible and also emulate PS1 which creates unusual demands on most scalars, basically 240p at low Hz support is needed for some titles. Not all TVs can do it (most can't that I try).
But what is this? Looking on LG website for C9 it says;
- Component/Composite Input
Yes (Phone Jack Type - Shared Audio)
Makeroflostsouls
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Uses a head phone style 3.5mm break out cable for component and composite input. Flat screens have been doing this for years now.
N4CR
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Ahh ok I have never seen it. Current TV is a 5 series Samsung 32" from 10+ years ago and other than HDMI it has more ports than anything I've seen since under 60".
Will dig more into current model compatibility with PS2/PS1 cheers.
N4CR
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For those looking for surefire ways to do it (PS1/2 on modern OLED);
https://www.videogameperfection.com/products/open-source-converter/
That is a hardware solution ($$$), alternatively free mcboot with GSM can do it internally..
https://www.videogameperfection.com/products/open-source-converter/
That is a hardware solution ($$$), alternatively free mcboot with GSM can do it internally..
Every time I read about or experience someone's reaction when they see OLED for the first time, I reminds me of that scene in Avatar. The one where Jake Sully takes a bite of the Pandoran fruit. It's juicy, delicious, and exotic, and his eyes light up with excitement. Same exact reaction.
N4CR
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imsirovic5
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If history is any guide, looking at the price history of C9 OLED Series 55" in 2019, it looks like late August / September is when the price drops down to acceptable levels. This timing should coincide with Ampere GPU release anyway?
I love telling people that say they own a “QLED” TV that they own a LCD TV. Usually they get upset and I tell them I’m going to watch my “CCFL” TV which typically goes over their heads.
Samsungs marketing is cringeworthy.
Thanks those are pretty consistent drops. Pretty sure the previous years models followed a similar pattern. Not a great financial decision to get this on day 1 if you’re a current OLED owner until HDMI 2.1 GPUs drop. Nvidia in the past have announced stuff in March but its usually not till Summer at best when cards are actually in stock and/or higher-end AIB variations of cards are available without having to spam F5 all day. Not sure how long I can resist if I can start playing on 4K 120hz 4:2:0 immediately if that’s an option this generation. I may even jump on an OEM “founders edition” card if I can starting gaming 4K 120hz 4:4:4 immediately on my C9.
Depending on the demand for these, I could see the 48 inch models being higher cost than the 55s at certain times. I'm sure people using the oled for desktop displays would actually put a premium on the display not being quite so large. It will be interesting to see how things shake out.
sharknice
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I have a feeling this screen is going to be sold out and hard to get at launch.
N4CR
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We are a drop in the bucket compared to the mainstream TV market though so wouldn't expect it to be too bad.
Oh boy though I ain't been this excited about tech since Zen2 and then for many years prior.... Zen3 + 120Hz OLED build 2020 yus plz.
I wonder what the numbers look like for people buying "gaming monitors" vs tv's a thousand dollars or more.
N4CR
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Exactly. The market for expensive displays is only so large.
What I'd be pretty sure on is many [H] types like myself that can justify it as a productivity and gaming display. For that there is almost zero compromise and that's what many of us have been waiting for, for years.
imsirovic5
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"LG Display has set the target of shipping over 6 million OLED TV panels for 2020, double last year's amount, its CEO has said."
So this optimism leads me to believe they have manufacturing capacity lined up. I do wonder how much PC demand are they banking on. Will be interesting to see how well they do compared to these original estimates.
Do hope they get this resolved soon:
"the firm's OLED TV panel factory in Guangzhou, China, which was meant to begin operations last year, has faced delays. LG has faced yield rate issues with the panels at the factory, Jeong said, but the company has been working hard to overcome the issues, with production expected to begin in the first quarter of 2020. "
Full article:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/ces-2020-lg-targets-selling-6-million-oled-tv-panels/
N4CR
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Agreed. The reason there are no smaller displays is cited as being due to manufacturing limitations, so I would be pretty sure high volume shouldn't be an issue and we will not be pushing F5 for months
I would estimate at 10's of thousands for PC market, it won't be huge. Or dual use console + PC users.
Systems required to drive such panels is only a few percent of the market anyway. You'd need 2070/V64 at minimum to even really try with modern games at higher settings. IIRC LG said 40Hz minimum VRR which is going to just scrape through with the above cards.
Bigmonitorguy
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For work and other non-gaming use, I find that 55" is actually fine, and it's the smallest size where I don't need to scale up the fonts at 4K. The width is the same as that of 49" ultrawides like the CRG9, and it's not a problem even without the curve. The height is more problematic, but you don't need to use the full height for anything that you look at a lot. If anything bothers me on the 55" OLED, it's not the size, it's the inferior text rendering quality due to the special sub-pixel structure, but I can live with it - it's bad but not horrible.
For some games, 55" is too large unless you sit far away, but even 48" will have that problem.
For some games, 55" is too large unless you sit far away, but even 48" will have that problem.
GoldenTiger
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Bigmonitorguy how far are you sitting from yours?
Bigmonitorguy
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About 28" from my eyes to the screen. This works fine for seeing the entire width. I could go even a bit wider. The viewing angles are so good on this OLED that you don't need the curve. To see the top of the image, I do need to tilt up my head and eyes, and that's not comfortable for prolonged periods of time, so I just don't put anything there that I need to look at a lot, but it's still a useful area.
Head turning to see any part of a screen automatically means you're too close, imo. There's a reason every authority on screen viewing distance avoids this. The ITU recommended viewing distance for 55" would be about 41".
If you like it that way, that's totally fine -- I'm not telling you to change. But most people will not like it at all and you should realize you're an outlier.
Bigmonitorguy
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The head turning is there only for the height, but you have the option of not putting anything high up if you don't like it. Indeed, I typically don't put anything at the top third or so of the screen. The big win for me is the ability to read text comfortably without scaling at 4K. With smaller monitors, I have to scale up. Similarly, if my eyes were further from the screen, I would need to scale up. In effect, I'm getting 3840x1440 (5,529,600 pixels) without having to scale (1440 because I don't use the top third of the screen much). No smaller monitor can give me that amount of usable text pixels for work or browsing.
On my 49" CRG9 (5120x1440), I need to use 125% scaling, so I get only 4096x1152 (4,718,592 pixels) effectively. On my 43" Z43 4K monitor, I need to use 133% scaling, so I get 2887x1624 (4,688,488 pixels) effectively. The 48" OLED would be somewhere in between what I get on the CRG9/Z43 and what I get on the 55" OLED because I would still need to scale on the 48", but I don't need to scale on the 55". In other words, the 55" is optimal for my use case of fitting as much easily-readable text as possible. I just wish the text rendering quality was better!
Fair enough, but yeah this isn't surprising. 55" 4K PPI is only 80, lower than most basic monitors, and when you're sitting that close the pixels will be quite large.
Bigmonitorguy
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I think the sub-pixel structure which doesn't play nice with ClearType is a bigger part of the problem than the PPI. I guess we'll have to wait for a 55" 8K to find out for sure...