LG 48CX

From the forbes link:

I also got to spend a few minutes just before publishing this article checking out a 48-inch OLED48CX running a PC racing game at 120fps (something LG’s new OLED TVs can support from HDMI 2.0 sources this year; you don’t need an HDMI 2.1 source like you did last year). And the results looked stunning, as silky smooth motion joined forces with the extra sharpness you get from squeezing a 4K resolution into a 48-inch screen.
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I'd be interesting to see how they pulled that off; more NVIDIA under-the-hood magic? Any limitations (HDR/Chroma)?

LG also claims that while it’s hard to measure, input lag should be as low as 5ms or so when gaming in 120fps.
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I'll defer judgement until rtings measures it, but it sounds like LG is pretty confident input lag has improved somewhat.
 
realworld said:
Now all they have to do is somehow make VRR or GSync work in windowed mode. Imagine playing at 1440p in borderless windowed mode while having the rest of the screen restate for other crap like web browsers. This pretty much emulates multi-monitor setup with a single display.
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It pretty much comes down to what the desktop is set to. When running any application any mode aside from exclusive fullscreen, the desktop settings control video output. That being said, given the Desktop is going to update at a steady 60 fps, I don't think there's much you can do to make VRR work (unless MSFT puts in some smarts to allow certain applications to override the desktop refresh when running...)
 
Murzilka said:
So, VRR works only in fullscreen exclusive mode?
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I have never own a Gsync or Freesync display, but isn't this the case with them too? In borderless you are limited to the triple buffered V-Sync of the Windows desktop.
 
gamerk2 said:
From the forbes link:



I'd be interesting to see how they pulled that off; more NVIDIA under-the-hood magic? Any limitations (HDR/Chroma)?



I'll defer judgement until rtings measures it, but it sounds like LG is pretty confident input lag has improved somewhat.
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Wait. You can do 120hz in HDMI 2.0? Really? WTF? Magic?
 
MaZa said:
I have never own a Gsync or Freesync display, but isn't this the case with them too? In borderless you are limited to the triple buffered V-Sync of the Windows desktop.
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No you aren't. At least G-sync works fine in windowed or borderless, I heard of issues with Freesync before but haven't tested it myself nor read much about it recently.

They basically do some magic to override the windows v-sync thing (DWM), it has been working fine for years - heck it worked in Windows 7 too! Obviously the window in focus is the only one that benefits from VRR. The option is not enabled by default (it used to try to sync with videos and random HW accelerated 2D apps but nvidia fixed it by adding exceptions to the profiles over time) but is easily accessible.

It's explained here https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/10/ but has been tested by battle(non)sense too and he found exactly the same: very tiny FPS loss (if any) vs fullscreen but no lag or tearing.
 
delita said:
Wait. You can do 120hz in HDMI 2.0? Really? WTF? Magic?
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You can do 120Hz over HDMI 2.0, you just have to fall back to 8-bit 4:2:0 chroma due to bandwidth limitations, and the display needs to support Y′CbCr. By definition, all TVs support Y′CbCr 8-bit 4:2:0 since that is the bit depth that most content (even Blu rays) are delivered in.

[This next part is deleted since it was wrong; I mixed up HDMI with DP... oops!]

Regardless, using 4:2:0 is fine for games and movies, but you'll want 4:4:4 chroma for desktop and especially text rendering.

Bottom line: for us to get uncompressed 4:4:4 HDR @ 120Hz, which is 32.27 Gbit/s of bandwidth, we'll need HDMI 2.1
 
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gan7114 said:
You can do 120Hz over HDMI 2.0, you just have to fall back to 4:2:0 chroma due to bandwidth limitations, and the display needs to support it. By definition, all TVs support 4:2:0 since that is the bit depth that most content (even blu rays) are delivered in. Currently, I believe the max for 4K @ 4:4:4 chroma over HDMI 2.0 is 98Hz. Which has been okay, since current GPUs can't really push beyond 98fps in 4K gaming anyway. That'll change when the new generation of graphics cards come out.

For gaming and movies, using 4:2:0 is fine, but you'll want 4:4:4 chroma for desktop and especially text rendering.
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That's right. For some reason I just assumed the article posted meant 4:4:4 chroma.
 
kalston said:
No you aren't. At least G-sync works fine in windowed or borderless, I heard of issues with Freesync before but haven't tested it myself nor read much about it recently.

They basically do some magic to override the windows v-sync thing (DWM), it has been working fine for years - heck it worked in Windows 7 too! Obviously the window in focus is the only one that benefits from VRR. The option is not enabled by default (it used to try to sync with videos and random HW accelerated 2D apps but nvidia fixed it by adding exceptions to the profiles over time) but is easily accessible.

It's explained here https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/10/ but has been tested by battle(non)sense too and he found exactly the same: very tiny FPS loss (if any) vs fullscreen but no lag or tearing.
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Thanks, I did know it can be overridden. I just remembered that borderless is a good workaround for games that only supported crappy double buffered Vsync and borderless forced them into triple buffering.
 
It’s going to be either chroma undersampling or some minor tweaks to using blanking interval or overclocking using a proprietary handshake to get 4k120 over HDMiI 2.0. Even 4:2:2 would work.

In other news Sony is also releasing a 48” OLED - probably the same panel. Headline feature in the short blurb I read was improved motion handling. No VRR mention.
 
gan7114 said:
You can do 120Hz over HDMI 2.0, you just have to fall back to 4:2:0 chroma due to bandwidth limitations, and the display needs to support it. By definition, all TVs support 4:2:0 since that is the bit depth that most content (even blu rays) are delivered in. Currently, I believe the max for 4K @ 4:4:4 chroma over HDMI 2.0 is 98Hz. Which has been okay, since current GPUs can't really push beyond 98fps in 4K gaming anyway. That'll change when the new generation of graphics cards come out.

For gaming and movies, using 4:2:0 is fine, but you'll want 4:4:4 chroma for desktop and especially text rendering.
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HDMI 2.0 is limited to 75 Hz at 4K 8bpc with YCbCr444 or RGB.
 
gamerk2 said:
No, he's right, HDMI 2.0 can handle 4k120Hz at 4:2:0. HDR content is limited to 4k60Hz @ 4:2:2 though.
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I was specifically referencing this:
gan7114 said:
Currently, I believe the max for 4K @ 4:4:4 chroma over HDMI 2.0 is 98Hz.
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98 Hz is a thing because that is what DisplayPort 1.4 is limited to at 4K 10-bit RGB/YCbCr444 with HDR.
 
I hope it is safe to assume CX models will have HDMI 2.1? Pairing Ampere which should have 2.1 with this monitor will hopefully alleviate any bandwidth issues.
 
realworld said:
Look at that. LG is using their 48 inch as a PC gaming monitor in their booth. It’s as if it was designed for that purpose all along!
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"it's so cute, like a chihuahua. I just want to hug it." :ROFLMAO:

Sold. Makes Dell's version of the LG OLED at $4k USD look completely irrelevant now, doesn't it? Wonder what l88bastard thinks.
 
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Armenius said:
"it's so cute, like a chihuahua. I just want to hug it." :ROFLMAO:

Sold. Makes Dell's version of the LG OLED at $4k USD look completely irrelevant now, doesn't it? Wonder what l88bastard thinks.
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Its actually always on sale for $2800. My friend picked one up on the epp website (available to everyone) with some additional stuff (ebates...etc). Total after all savings came out to like $2000. Not a bad deal at all.
 
enyownz said:
Its actually always on sale for $2800. My friend picked one up on the epp website (available to everyone) with some additional stuff (ebates...etc). Total after all savings came out to like $2000. Not a bad deal at all.
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And you can still get a 55" C9 for half that price. No reason to think that the CX series will be anymore expensive considering price trends on OLED.
 
Armenius said:
And you can still get a 55" C9 for half that price. No reason to think that the CX series will be anymore expensive considering price trends on OLED.
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Not disagreeing with your comment that these will be the best options out, but the Dell OLED has been a fantastic option for past year especially since it has DisplayPort.
Can't wait for those Ampere with HDMI 2.1.

Looking to move on from my Sony a1e to a 77C9P before march and pick up this 48CX for bedroom.
 
Armenius said:
"it's so cute, like a chihuahua. I just want to hug it." :ROFLMAO:

Sold. Makes Dell's version of the LG OLED at $4k USD look completely irrelevant now, doesn't it? Wonder what l88bastard thinks.
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I think ill get the 48" when it comes out and then inlay the AW55 in my bathroom across from my toilet as fidgiting with a mobile phone on the shitter is so 1990's

In the meantime I will continue on enjoying 4k120 OLED for the next six months while others have to endure the wrath of LCD ;-)
 
Praise the display gods - this is the one I've been waiting for.

2+ years on my B7 and it has been fantastic but I'm looking forward to going back to a 48". I've made the 55" work, but 48" is the more practical size and this one will have several significant feature upgrades over mine. Sounds like the gist is, for current 9 series owners, this one probably isn't worth the upgrade unless you just want/need the smaller size.

Day one buy...hopefully availability will be strong.
 
Lateralus said:
Praise the display gods - this is the one I've been waiting for.

2+ years on my B7 and it has been fantastic but I'm looking forward to going back to a 48". I've made the 55" work, but 48" is the more practical size and this one will have several significant feature upgrades over mine. Sounds like the gist is, for current 9 series owners, this one probably isn't worth the upgrade unless you just want/need the smaller size.

Day one buy...hopefully availability will be strong.
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B7 owner here too. 2+ years and no burn in problems, just pure OLED eye candy. I'll be using the 48" CX until LG decides to make a 40-43".
 
I'm also enjoying my 65" C7, with no sign of burn-in!

I don't plan on picking one of these up, but I look forward to oleds getting smaller and cheaper. A smaller size may also mean a sub-$1000 price tag for the first time.
 
Lateralus said:
Praise the display gods - this is the one I've been waiting for.

Day one buy...hopefully availability will be strong.
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It's pretty telling that of all the gorgeous, enormous, and innovative TV models that LG had on display in their private showroom at CES, only the 48CX was hooked up to anything meaningful... and it was a PC gaming rig.

LG knows exactly who's going to be buying the 48CX, and that's at least assuring.
 
Is it BGR or RGB though? I have a 4k 48" Sony 850b that I use as a computer monitor and TV that I'd be interested in replacing it with this...
 
I thought all LG OLED TVs used RGBW? Can't imagine that changing this year!
 
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kasakka said:
Correct. According to Rtings.com only 3 subpixels are in use at once though.
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That makes sense. The whites are probably there just to improve the lifetime/burn-in when displaying brighter images. They would likely turn on alternating pixels for displaying off-white, or just white pixels for pure white.
 
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defaultluser said:
That makes sense. The whites are probably there just to improve the lifetime/burn-in when displaying brighter images. They would likely turn on alternating pixels for displaying off-white, or just white pixels for pure white.
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Fun fact: In addition to making adjustments to the WRGB pixel structure over the generations, LG also increased the size of the red pixels since red is more susceptible to burn in. While it might seem counter-intuitive, increasing the size allows for more light, meaning the pixels don't have to be driven as hard as past models in the 6 or 7 series. Since they aren't driven as hard, there is less chance for image retention and burn in.

The one down side to WRGB (aka WOLED) is that the colors aren't as pure as what a genuine RGB OLED would produce. Not that the average person can tell.

The (funky) pixel structure looks something like this:

33559730.jpg
 
Alright Nv/AMD, give us some GPUs this year that can hold 4k solid at 120Hz..
If that happens then we are all going to have these on our desks.
Its going to be like 2014, when all of us had those Catleap 1440p 27" korean monitors. Good times good times.
 
MistaSparkul said:
B7 owner here too. 2+ years and no burn in problems, just pure OLED eye candy. I'll be using the 48" CX until LG decides to make a 40-43".
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Yes sir! I've said several times that OLED was a complete game-changer, and for me at least, the pinnacle of displays. It's just been a damn shame about the lack of smaller sizes.

For hardcore competitive gaming, one could make the argument that some of the smaller IPS/VA G-Sync/FreeSync displays are better in that sense. But heck, despite owning a 120Hz monitor previously, I've been happily gaming away for the past two years at 60Hz with the most gorgeous image quality I've ever seen.

So now you're telling me that I can get this picture quality, in a smaller display, with true 4K/120Hz/VRR support and all the other goodies that they've chosen to pack in, and not have to deal with the drawbacks of ancient LCD tech? The 48CX is like our B7s, in a better size for PC use, on steroids. It's a no brainer.

Glad that a lot of misinformation about burn-in etc. was cleared up in this thread.
 
Gatecrasher3000 said:
Alright Nv/AMD, give us some GPUs this year that can hold 4k solid at 120Hz..
If that happens then we are all going to have these on our desks.
Its going to be like 2014, when all of us had those Catleap 1440p 27" korean monitors. Good times good times.
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Heck yeah.
 
delita said:
LG knows exactly who's going to be buying the 48CX, and that's at least assuring.
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Assad_Whiskey.jpg
2020 is already shaping up to be great.

gan7114 said:
LG also increased the size of the red pixels since red is more susceptible to burn in.
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Pretty sure blue is or was most susceptible that's why the sub-pixel size was always largest in earlier versions of OLED for blue. It's same in other industries as well blue has always been an issue as it has the highest photon energy.
Red and blue are far less bright to the human eye than green also so you need more power to have an equivalent brightness, thus a larger pixel is needed.
 
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