Is VR even worth it?

Hakaba

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why is the Valve Index so much more expensive then all the other VR kits?...is it worth it?

No, I do not believe its worth it. The hardware is ahead of its time in terms of resolution/refresh rate, foveated viewing might have made the thing worth it, or if it even somehow supported SLI/GPU per screen. But current hardware is not going to fully utilize that thing and at $1K... I took a pass and moved from HTC to Rift S.

I think the Rift S/Quest w/ Oculus Link/Wireless streaming is worth it. I would lean more towards the Quest for portability if you travel a lot (nice to have one's own personal theater).
 

Hagrid

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No, I do not believe its worth it. The hardware is ahead of its time in terms of resolution/refresh rate, foveated viewing might have made the thing worth it, or if it even somehow supported SLI/GPU per screen. But current hardware is not going to fully utilize that thing and at $1K... I took a pass and moved from HTC to Rift S.

I think the Rift S/Quest w/ Oculus Link/Wireless streaming is worth it. I would lean more towards the Quest for portability if you travel a lot (nice to have one's own personal theater).
You mean to max it out at 120hz? Maybe a 2080ti, but a 1080ti would run it fine at 90 with a demanding game.
Do you have any links that says a 1080ti/2080ti would not run the Index?
 

Hakaba

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You mean to max it out at 120hz? Maybe a 2080ti, but a 1080ti would run it fine at 90 with a demanding game.
Do you have any links that says a 1080ti/2080ti would not run the Index?

"But current hardware is not going to fully utilize that thing..."

From the specs I have seen, 144Hz is the max. Not 120Hz. Also, if you are getting into VR a Rift S will let you walk away with a 2070/2080 maybe even super variant instead of an Index with a 2060/??
 

Hagrid

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"But current hardware is not going to fully utilize that thing..."

From the specs I have seen, 144Hz is the max. Not 120Hz. Also, if you are getting into VR a Rift S will let you walk away with a 2070/2080 maybe even super variant instead of an Index with a 2060/??
A Rift S is not that demanding really. Fully utilize is not right, you mean fully utilize every game. Most games I bet will be fully utilized. There are always a few that might strain it. But not all as you imply.
 

ProfessorUtopia

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I run most games at 120Hz on my Index with a GTX 1080. Alyx requires low settings or dropping the refresh rate to 90Hz (I prefer low settings, still looks amazing). The improvement in visual comfort for fast paced games and smooth locomotion is fantastic; I have a much better time with games like Jet Island on the Index when compared to the 90Hz Lenovo Explorer. Outside of that, the improved smoothness is noticeable even for head movement. It's very comparable to upgrading to a higher refresh rate monitor; if you're the type with a strong preference for high refresh rate gaming, you may very well never want to go back to 90Hz VR after you experience the Index.
 
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I've been using VR since the Rift CV1 released back in 2016, when the headset and Touch controllers cost $800 combined, and then you add two extra sensor cameras, USB 3.0 extensions, and an additional USB 3.0 host controller card for everything... needless to say, it's a lot more affordable now, and a lot less stressful on your system's USB host controller(s).

However, the Rift S and Quest were NOT upgrades for me as a CV1 owner, so I decided to shell out for the Valve Index. Revive works pretty well for all my Oculus Store stuff, just gotta make some tweaks in Steam Input settings for software like Medium and Quill that treat the grip triggers like binary buttons and go off way too easily. Tracking is noticeably improved (I'd probably be let down with camera-based tracking that gets occluded with behind-the-shoulder/back motions), the Knuckles feel pretty good in my hands, and the headset itself, while it doesn't look dramatically higher-res, has noticeably wider FoV, far less prominent god rays, and almost no screen door effect.

I'd love to push it to 120/144 Hz, but my GTX 980 is stressed out enough hitting the 90 Hz mark even at the Rift CV1's lower resolution. Takes an RTX 2080 at the very least to make DCS not choke in VR, even if you're just doing a free flight with no other AI around. Buying a new GPU right now would be foolish when the next generation's due to release by the end of the year.

And on that note: you need a beefy PC for VR. While most games like HL: Alyx, GORN, Pavlov, just about anything built from the ground up for VR tends to be well-optimized, DCS, IL-2 Great Battles, and anything that has been retrofitted to VR after the fact tends to be an exercise in frustration for those with weaker GPUs. (DiRT Rally is thankfully an exception to this.)

I admit, for a long while, I wasn't using my Rift as much as I normally would have, but part of that boiled down to extra clutter in the computer room for a long while. VR benefits quite heavily from open space outside of cockpit sims; the more, the better. You want to be able to go prone in Onward (moreso than other FPSs like Pavlov or COMPOUND), or intuitively step around in anything melee-focused like The Thrill of the Fight! or GORN, and most importantly, not accidentally smack anything valuable while you're flailing around.

So yes, it definitely costs a lot of money and space to really get into it (not least because VR is more intensive than 4K60 gaming and you want the beefiest single GPU you can afford), but when you do, pancake/flat monitor gaming just feels boring and unimmersive afterward.
 

kalston

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With games retrofitted for VR I find the CPU and RAM speed to be more often the limiting factors than the GPU (although some settings might tank your framerate, depending on the GPU you have - I run a 1080 ti + Rift S). But yes they are extremely hard to run properly sadly. It looks like when a game isn't built for VR from the very start a lot of things are difficult/impossible to optimize afterwards (but maybe it's just too niche and they don't put too much effort yet). I'm thankful that ASW works so well, as long as it doesn't cause annoying artifacts in your game of choice it literally makes games twice as easy to run.
 

Hakaba

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... Takes an RTX 2080 at the very least to make DCS not choke in VR, even if you're just doing a free flight with no other AI around...

I do have to drop settings in game so I can enjoy it (1080 ti). Hell others there use the 2080 ti and say it was a noticeable upgrade but not worth the price they paid for it.

But it is very hard to go back flat screen DCS.
 

TordanGow

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Still a novelty IMO.... but getting closer. I really want it to improve to what I consider worth it as the concept of it is awesome.
 

Viper16

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I just tried out iRacing with my Rift and it was really immersive (played in a race seat w/ wheel/pedal/shifter). I am actually thinking about building a race cockpit and giving it a go.
 
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I do have to drop settings in game so I can enjoy it (1080 ti). Hell others there use the 2080 ti and say it was a noticeable upgrade but not worth the price they paid for it.

But it is very hard to go back flat screen DCS.
The 1080 Ti is still quite a performance leap above the old 980, so I'm not surprised you can manage with just a few settings turned down.

I just wish their used prices hadn't hovered so close to 2070 Super and 2080 Super territory to the point that I'm not really getting any price-to-performance improvement by buying one.

Flight sims on a flat monitor just don't do it for me anymore, either; one of my frustrations is that Falcon BMS doesn't have VR yet, last time I checked. Cockpits are so much more immersive with actual depth perception and everything sized to scale, and I don't miss my camera spazzing out the moment my TrackIR loses sight of a tracking point.

Then there's how the JHMCS gives you a sight over your right eye, and only the right eye, per the real deal... they actually put some thought into this stuff.

It's definitely worth upgrading my GPU for, I'm just having to teach myself a bit of patience with regard to the next GPU generation.
 

M76

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Rift S or Vive Cosmos?
Hoth are available now for about the same price here, so which is better? I heard the Vive cosmos has issues tracking the controllers when you hold them close.
 

funkydmunky

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I run most games at 120Hz on my Index with a GTX 1080. Alyx requires low settings or dropping the refresh rate to 90Hz (I prefer low settings, still looks amazing). The improvement in visual comfort for fast paced games and smooth locomotion is fantastic; I have a much better time with games like Jet Island on the Index when compared to the 90Hz Lenovo Explorer. Outside of that, the improved smoothness is noticeable even for head movement. It's very comparable to upgrading to a higher refresh rate monitor; if you're the type with a strong preference for high refresh rate gaming, you may very well never want to go back to 90Hz VR after you experience the Index.
Really now! I struggle with much better specs to get towards full visuals @90 Hz with Project Cars 2 or IL-2, especially when it gets populated.
There is real VR which pushes way beyond the max of what is currently available hardware wise, and what we will settle for.
 

MaZa

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Rift S or Vive Cosmos?
Hoth are available now for about the same price here, so which is better? I heard the Vive cosmos has issues tracking the controllers when you hold them close.

Not just up close but having your hands in assault rifle position also causes issues. Headset is good but HTC really screwed up the inside out tracking.
 

Kainzo

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My B-Day is coming up and I want to make myself a present. Whatever in $500-700 range should be ok, IF it's actually worth it.

I did a quick Google search, and it doesn't look like theres very many "good" VR games out there.. i'm talking truly AAA titles like Fallout 4 or Resident Evil 7.

I experienced VR only once, back when the original Oculus rift came out. It was very cool, but not super useful. Very few games supported it, and mostly it was about demos and such.Also, there was this horrible side effect, when after using for 10 min, I had to take it off because it made my head spin/dizzy - very unpleasant.

How much have things improved since then? Does it really make a huge difference in games that support it?

What else can you do with it? Aside from gaming?

Thanks!
No.
 

MaZa

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I was banned from the HL:Alyx thread for saying that you need an index for optimal experience, now that I ask which entry level system is better I get told index. LOL

What!? :eek:
 

Hagrid

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If you play Onward, there have been reports of the tracking not being good as HMD's with external tracking.(Cameras or lighthouses)

I have a 4 sensor system with my Rift and I can go in prone or standing in pretty much any position with my arms and the sensors can see it.
 

reaper12

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Rift S or Vive Cosmos?
Hoth are available now for about the same price here, so which is better? I heard the Vive cosmos has issues tracking the controllers when you hold them close.

The Rift S is better.
 
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MavericK

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I was banned from the HL:Alyx thread for saying that you need an index for optimal experience, now that I ask which entry level system is better I get told index. LOL


Let's be honest here, you kept complaining about the high price of the Index while people kept telling you you didn't have to buy it to get a good experience with HL:Alyx, and you didn't believe them.

Index is not an entry-level system by any stretch. But neither is the Vive Cosmos or Rift S, so I'm not sure why you are asking about those. True entry-level you are looking at something like a Samsung Odyssey+ or an Oculus Quest. Or, of course, a used OG Vive or maybe Vive Pro.

If you're gonna spend the money on a higher-end system, get an Index.

I personally wouldn't buy anything that has inside-out tracking only, since a lot of the newer VR games seem to require you to reach behind your head to deposit items, and I'm not sure how well that works with inside-out tracking.
 

M76

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Let's be honest here, you kept complaining about the high price of the Index while people kept telling you you didn't have to buy it to get a good experience with HL:Alyx, and you didn't believe them.

Index is not an entry-level system by any stretch. But neither is the Vive Cosmos or Rift S, so I'm not sure why you are asking about those. True entry-level you are looking at something like a Samsung Odyssey+ or an Oculus Quest. Or, of course, a used OG Vive or maybe Vive Pro.

If you're gonna spend the money on a higher-end system, get an Index.

I personally wouldn't buy anything that has inside-out tracking only, since a lot of the newer VR games seem to require you to reach behind your head to deposit items, and I'm not sure how well that works with inside-out tracking.
I was/am still skeptical about it, I didn't know that is a bannable offense. Who said the index is an entry level system? What are you on about? I said you'd need an index to fully experience HL:Alyx, and compared it to playing a game on a low tier GPU vs on a hiend GPU. But I think I was being lenient there, because you can turn down graphics on a low-end gpu and still get a decent experience, but you can't do shit if the VR set keeps loosing track of your controllers.

I'm asking about the Cosmos and the Rift S, because those are the ONLY two systems that I could buy at the moment. And even you are saying that I need the index, which would mean I was right all along. So which is it? Am I wrong and VR is fine below the hiend, or am I right and you need an Index to get a hassle free product?

Neither the odyssey nor, the oculus quest is sold outside the US as far as I can tell.
 

reaper12

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Index is not an entry-level system by any stretch. But neither is the Vive Cosmos or Rift S, so I'm not sure why you are asking about those. True entry-level you are looking at something like a Samsung Odyssey+ or an Oculus Quest. Or, of course, a used OG Vive or maybe Vive Pro.

What way are you classing something as entry level?

He is asking about the Rift S and Cosmos because he thinks the Index is too expensive. Of the two the Rift S is the better because it gives most of the experience of the Index for $600 less.

I personally wouldn't buy anything that has inside-out tracking only, since a lot of the newer VR games seem to require you to reach behind your head to deposit items, and I'm not sure how well that works with inside-out tracking.

Inside out Tracking works fine if done correctly. The Cosmos sucks at it, the Rift S and Quest have brilliant tracking. It got off to a rocky start on the Oculus headsets but it's almost perfect now. For example In Boneworks you have to reach behind your back the whole time to get items and deposit items.

I come from a 4 sensor Rift setup and I don't miss it.
 

reaper12

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I was/am still skeptical about it, I didn't know that is a bannable offense. Who said the index is an entry level system? What are you on about? I said you'd need an index to fully experience HL:Alyx, and compared it to playing a game on a low tier GPU vs on a hiend GPU. But I think I was being lenient there, because you can turn down graphics on a low-end gpu and still get a decent experience, but you can't do shit if the VR set keeps loosing track of your controllers.

I'm asking about the Cosmos and the Rift S, because those are the ONLY two systems that I could buy at the moment. And even you are saying that I need the index, which would mean I was right all along. So which is it? Am I wrong and VR is fine below the hiend, or am I right and you need an Index to get a hassle free product?

Neither the odyssey nor, the oculus quest is sold outside the US as far as I can tell.

I don't know where you are getting your Information from, but, you don't lose tracking on the Rift S. And I believe the Cosmos has improved things a lot in that area too, but, it's too expensive.

You have used the high end GPU to low end GPU comparison before between the Rift S and the Index, it's not accurate. A better analogy would be comparing playing a game on a 2080 vs 2080 Super. That's how close the Rift s and Index are in reality.

I wouldn't buy first generation headsets now like the OG Rift and the Vive. There are lots of different headsets out there for sale and it can be confusing. But the Valve Index, Oculus Rift S and the Oculus Quest are the 3 best headsets out at the moment.

To answer your question about were you wrong? yes, you were. You don't need an Index to have an amazing VR experience.

The Odyssey isn't sold outside the US, but the Oculus Quest is sold all over world.
 

ThatITGuy

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OK, so if you had around 1k to spend... which of the systems would you purchase?
It looks like Index is the best available in the price range (750-1250)
 

Mode13

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Well.. I'm waiting to hear what the specs on the Reverb G2 are. The original reverb has crazy high 2160x2160 resolution, G2 teaser says it's built in collaboration with Microsoft and Valve, so it's probably going to be a pretty good headset.

I was going to just buy a Rift S but they're totally out of stock.
 

MaZa

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Well.. I'm waiting to hear what the specs on the Reverb G2 are. The original reverb has crazy high 2160x2160 resolution, G2 teaser says it's built in collaboration with Microsoft and Valve, so it's probably going to be a pretty good headset.

I was going to just buy a Rift S but they're totally out of stock.

I really hope the HP one will have a hardware IPD adjustment. The lack of was one of the deal breakers the original headset. Hell if they manage to improve FOV slightly too thanks to Valve's involvement then they could have a hit in their hands (except for the WMR controllers) for people who want a mobile VR rig like me who also do not want to deal with lighthouses.
 

vegeta535

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OK, so if you had around 1k to spend... which of the systems would you purchase?
It looks like Index is the best available in the price range (750-1250)
The index no doubt. Just be prepared to wait a couple months to get one.
 

reaper12

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OK, so if you had around 1k to spend... which of the systems would you purchase?
It looks like Index is the best available in the price range (750-1250)

If you have a 1K budget, then the Index is the best headset out there at the moment. 8 week lead time at the moment though.
 

Hagrid

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I don't know where you are getting your Information from, but, you don't lose tracking on the Rift S. And I believe the Cosmos has improved things a lot in that area too, but, it's too expensive.

You have used the high end GPU to low end GPU comparison before between the Rift S and the Index, it's not accurate. A better analogy would be comparing playing a game on a 2080 vs 2080 Super. That's how close the Rift s and Index are in reality.

I wouldn't buy first generation headsets now like the OG Rift and the Vive. There are lots of different headsets out there for sale and it can be confusing. But the Valve Index, Oculus Rift S and the Oculus Quest are the 3 best headsets out at the moment.

To answer your question about were you wrong? yes, you were. You don't need an Index to have an amazing VR experience.

The Odyssey isn't sold outside the US, but the Oculus Quest is sold all over world.
People who play Onward have reported it with the Rift S.
 

vegeta535

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If you have a 1K budget, then the Index is the best headset out there at the moment. 8 week lead time at the moment though.
At least 8 weeks. It was 8 weeks before this cov-19 shit. I'll find out soon. End of this week makes 8 weeks for me.
 

reaper12

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People who play Onward have reported it with the Rift S.

M76 was talking about Half Life: Alyx and that's what I was responding to.

In regard to Onward, the problem isn't the tracking it's that the controllers go to sleep when you don't move them for a while which makes sniping awkward as you have to keep moving the controllers or pressing the buttons. Scopes are terrible in Onward anyway, Pavlov does them much better.
 

Ragenrok

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I love my Rift S but the Index is the better system, if you cant afford an index or just dont want to wait the Rift s is the next best option, have had 0 issues with half life: alyx on my rift S
 

CLE_216

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I don't have VR, tried it once and it made me sick to my stomach. If there's anything that might get me to try it again, it's the new Flight Simulator, and developers for the game said VR is high on their priority list.

Not far behind, I bet, is some kind of space sim.

Think they'll sell the VR versions along with a coupon or rebate for barf bags? :p
 

M76

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I don't know where you are getting your Information from, but, you don't lose tracking on the Rift S. And I believe the Cosmos has improved things a lot in that area too, but, it's too expensive.
So the rift is better because of the price or is it better even if you disregard the price?
 

reaper12

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So the rift is better because of the price or is it better even if you disregard the price?

But price is always a factor, How can you just disregard it when choosing a headset?

But, to answer your question, even if they were the same price the Rift S is still a better buy. Better controllers, more comfortable, easier to setup, way better eco system.

There are only 3 headsets worth buying at the moment, Index, Rift S or Quest.
 

reaper12

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I don't have VR, tried it once and it made me sick to my stomach.

It only takes a couple of weeks to get over VR sickness. If you only tried it once, chances you started feeling nauseous but ignored the feeling and played on, that you tried to fight through it. That just makes it worse.

See the secret is, the second you start having any kind of sick feeling stop playing. Take off the headset and go do something else for an hour or so, then try again. You will find that you are able to stay longer and longer in VR before you feel nauseous and have to take the headset off. It depends on the person but it normally only take a couple of days before you find your VR legs and can play as long as you want.

Basically what I am trying to say is don't let the fact that you felt sick in your one try of VR put you off buying a headset. VR sickness is perfectly normal and easy to get rid of for most people.
 

bigbluefe

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It isn't, and don't get suckered by all the (mostly paid for) hype around the HL Alyx game. At the end of the day it's just another walking simulator.

It's pretty much snake oil. No one's made a VR game that wouldn't play better than traditional controls.
 

MaZa

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It isn't, and don't get suckered by all the (mostly paid for) hype around the HL Alyx game. At the end of the day it's just another walking simulator.

It's pretty much snake oil. No one's made a VR game that wouldn't play better than traditional controls.

Of course having a mouse and keyboard has advantages for playing a game, but it is a different matter from VR where you are IN the game. There is no snake oil, it is just a different way to play the game. And Alyx a walking simulator? There are slow sections especially in the first 3rd of the game but considering how many times I died in intense firefights I would not call it a walking simulator. Have you even played the game?
 

bigbluefe

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Of course having a mouse and keyboard has advantages for playing a game, but it is a different matter from VR where you are IN the game. There is no snake oil, it is just a different way to play the game. And Alyx a walking simulator? There are slow sections especially in the first 3rd of the game but considering how many times I died in intense firefights I would not call it a walking simulator. Have you even played the game?

The parts of that game that aren't just standard FPS fare are walking simulator style crap. That game is all presentation and style over substance combined with Valve hype and fanboys pretending there's far more there than is actually there.
 
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