Is VR even worth it?

bnolsen

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Dec 19, 2006
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I have a quest (got it early march_ and we get a ton of use out of it. Mostly it gets used for thrill of the fight and a really good sweat session. Otherwise for games like moonrider.xyz, pistol whip, hyper dash. Just got sairento, robo recall unplugged and journey of the gods (on sale).

I do have virtual desktop and recently bought a dedicated pci-e wireless card for my under specced VR PC (dual ivy xeon with rx580) so that we can dabble with a few free steamvr games. I haven't yet tried to do anything like DCS or half life alyx.

I absolutely love that I can take it over to anyone's house and introduce them to VR games. Or just play almost anywhere.

Some people call the quest VR 1.0 I guess for it's general appeal towards the general population.

I expect next gen in 2021 to hopefully be awesome.
 

Hagrid

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The parts of that game that aren't just standard FPS fare are walking simulator style crap. That game is all presentation and style over substance combined with Valve hype and fanboys pretending there's far more there than is actually there.
Very true. I found that Arizona Sunshine was more fun to play, along with Lone Echo, Vanishing Realms, Dead Effect 2 VR.
 

reaper12

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It isn't, and don't get suckered by all the (mostly paid for) hype around the HL Alyx game. At the end of the day it's just another walking simulator.

It's pretty much snake oil. No one's made a VR game that wouldn't play better than traditional controls.
That's your opinion of Half Life:Alyx. You are entitled to it, not everyone is going to like every single game, even the most popular games have haters.

Your second line is nonsense.
 

reaper12

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Very true. I found that Arizona Sunshine was more fun to play, along with Lone Echo, Vanishing Realms, Dead Effect 2 VR.
There is an example of not everyone liking every game even the most popular games, because I thought Lone Echo was the most boring game ever and after the first hour I didn't really care if I finished it or not.
 

Hagrid

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That's your opinion of Half Life:Alyx. You are entitled to it, not everyone is going to like every single game, even the most popular games have haters.

Your second line is nonsense.
Not really snake oil, but also snake oil. They hyped it up and it failed. Again my opinion but wow, it was so narrow, very short, and had no depth.
I consider it an extended demo.
 

MaZa

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The parts of that game that aren't just standard FPS fare are walking simulator style crap. That game is all presentation and style over substance combined with Valve hype and fanboys pretending there's far more there than is actually there.
So simply put if the game is not all about elevating your excitement and adrenaline levels from rush to rush it is crap. Please... Take your trolling elsewhere.
 

Hagrid

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Your opinion. Because it certainly didn't fail.
Yeah, I know. People slurped it up. Another opinion is that they are easily impressed or some did not even play many other games.
I had high hopes for the game as well. I am getting old am expecting more I guess. :)
 

GNUse_the_force

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It's pretty much snake oil. No one's made a VR game that wouldn't play better than traditional controls.
Not the first or the last discussion about VR in regards teleport controls / walking simulator effect. It kind of ends up defining most first person VR experiences currently.

Given the amount of setup & gear required for decent PC VR and the need for real walking and running, im kind of surprised that valve hasn't come out with a travelator style device that allows for such a thing. Your imerssed in so many other ways, but the fundemental movement for 95% of video games outside of space flight, driving is ... walking,running. It's like the missing piece of VR that hasn't come to fruition. This would allow for less worries about tripping on wires (no need for wireless) less legal/personal injury worries as people are basically within a fixed boundry.. although laying might be impossible at least crouching would work and even jumping.

Yes it's going to be a larger device to ship, but it's not like you can't buy things that large (like tables / couches) online anyway.
 

Shikami

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No!
Even if you were to find a good game (some exist, very minor few), the visor would burn out your eyeballs and make you so myopic that you have to ask your self "what is the point of a slightly better 90's VR with eyeball damage galore?!"
 

RazorWind

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It's pretty much snake oil. No one's made a VR game that wouldn't play better than traditional controls.
Go play a flight sim in VR and then look me in the eye and tell me it's better to just play on a monitor.

Bottom line being that you need to play more games before you make a claim like that, because it's just... wrong. There are plenty of games that are made better by VR. Just not all of them.
 

Hagrid

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Go play a flight sim in VR and then look me in the eye and tell me it's better to just play on a monitor.

Bottom line being that you need to play more games before you make a claim like that, because it's just... wrong. There are plenty of games that are made better by VR. Just not all of them.
I would say most if you want any type of immersion. A flat screen gives 0.
 

bigbluefe

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Go play a flight sim in VR and then look me in the eye and tell me it's better to just play on a monitor.

Bottom line being that you need to play more games before you make a claim like that, because it's just... wrong. There are plenty of games that are made better by VR. Just not all of them.
Flight sims in VR still use traditional controls. If you're not using some kind of flight stick with a flight sim you're doing it wrong. Head tracking/free look in the cockpit is nice but that's not what I'd call "control" as much as more convenient visibility.
 

GreenOrbs

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Flight sims in VR still use traditional controls. If you're not using some kind of flight stick with a flight sim you're doing it wrong. Head tracking/free look in the cockpit is nice but that's not what I'd call "control" as much as more convenient visibility.
Errr, not sure what you are going on about here. Its entirely possible to play something like DCS with a flight stick in VR. Even as early as 2018 it was possible. Here's a former fighter pilot using a stick with an original Oculus headset in DCS. He was saying VR makes a huge difference for these types of sims compared to when he first tried it flat.

 
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reaper12

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Flight sims in VR still use traditional controls. If you're not using some kind of flight stick with a flight sim you're doing it wrong. Head tracking/free look in the cockpit is nice but that's not what I'd call "control" as much as more convenient visibility.
This post shows just how ignorant you are about VR.

You don't have a clue.

Go back to your cave.
 

bigbluefe

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Errr, not sure what you are going on about here. Its entirely possible to play something like DCS with a flight stick in VR. Even as early as 2018 it was possible. Here's a former fighter pilot using a stick with an original Oculus headset in DCS. He was saying VR makes a huge difference for these types of sims compared to when he first tried it flat.

Pretty horrific reading comprehension on your part. I wrote that you always want to use a flight stick in a flight sim REGARDLESS of whether you're using a VR helmet or not. I was making the point that VR doesn't significantly change the way those games play since you're still going to be using similar control schemes regardless.
 

GreenOrbs

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I'm sorry that argument is even worse. You argue that an experience cannot be significantly better if the input devices are the same. That's nonsense. If being able to look around isn't a huge advantage in plane flying why does the government pay over $400,000 for a helmet to let fighter pilots virtually look through the solid parts of their plane (https://www.wired.com/2016/06/course-f-35-comes-400000-augmented-reality-helmet/). Being able to look around is everything when doing dogfighting. According to you, being a drone pilot via a flat screen is the same experience as actually flying the plane because the controls are the same. Hint: Its not. If flat screen and VR are the same experience, why is the military moving to VR for flight training and getting better results compared with their previous simulator trainers using flat screens (https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/air-force-vr-pilot-training). Its been demonstrated in the real world that the experience with VR flight sims and flat sims are very different experiences... I don't know why you insist on arguing otherwise.
The U.S. Air Force trained and certified 13 pilots with virtual reality headsets in less than half the normal training time and at a fraction of the cost, according to Stephen Losey of Air Force Times. The service's inaugural class of Pilot Training Next began in April with 30 students. After four months of training with VR headsets — in place of traditional multi-million dollar simulators — along with artificial intelligence and advanced biometrics, just over a dozen students earned their wings. The normal training pipeline typically takes about a year. Officials told Air Force Times the program isn't meant to replace its traditional pilot training program. Still, the results are game-changing: Student pilots can put on an HTC Vive headset that immerses them inside a cockpit for just $1,000 per unit, compared to $4.5 million for a legacy simulator.
Your claim that VR input can't be better than "traditional controls" isn't even true. It's already possible with an add on IR kit (PointCTRL) to be able to be able to virtually reach out and press buttons. The Oculus quest can already do hand tracking and its only a matter of time before you can put a board in front of you and use VR to touch virtual buttons in the cockpit without anything other than the cameras on a VR headset. Try making a physical cockpit that matches every plane you want to fly... not practical at all.


P.S. That's ignoring the fact that you used "traditional controls" in a previous post to refer to M/KB or controllers when talking about HL Alyx. Don't write something ambiguous and expect people to read your mind and then complain about "horrible reading comprehension".
bigbluefe said:
It isn't, and don't get suckered by all the (mostly paid for) hype around the HL Alyx game. At the end of the day it's just another walking simulator. It's pretty much snake oil. No one's made a VR game that wouldn't play better than traditional controls..... Flight sims in VR still use traditional controls. If you're not using some kind of flight stick with a flight sim you're doing it wrong.)
 
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MaZa

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I'm sorry that argument is even worse. You argue that an experience cannot be significantly better if the input devices are the same. That's nonsense. If being able to look around isn't a huge advantage in plane flying why does the government pay over $400,000 for a helmet to let fighter pilots virtually look through the solid parts of their plane (https://www.wired.com/2016/06/course-f-35-comes-400000-augmented-reality-helmet/). Being able to look around is everything when doing dogfighting. According to you, being a drone pilot via a flat screen is the same experience as actually flying the plane because the controls are the same. Hint: Its not. If flat screen and VR are the same experience, why is the military moving to VR for flight training and getting better results compared with their previous simulator trainers using flat screens (https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/air-force-vr-pilot-training). Its been demonstrated in the real world that the experience with VR flight sims and flat sims are very different experiences... I don't know why you insist on arguing otherwise.


Your claim that VR input can't be better than "traditional controls" isn't even true. It's already possible with an add on IR kit (PointCTRL) to be able to be able to virtually reach out and press buttons. The Oculus quest can already do hand tracking and its only a matter of time before you can put a board in front of you and use VR to touch virtual buttons in the cockpit without anything other than the cameras on a VR headset. Try making a physical cockpit that matches every plane you want to fly... not practical at all.


P.S. That's ignoring the fact that you used "traditional controls" in a previous post to refer to M/KB or controllers when talking about HL Alyx. Don't write something ambiguous and expect people to read your mind and then complain about "horrible reading comprehension".

And it is not about being able to look around either. It is about the difference of watching a thing to happen through 2d window (or even 3d window with 3d glasses) versus being in the game with sense of scale and everything, sitting inside the cockpit like if it were really around you.

He is either very ignorant about VR or he is just trolling. Do not waste your time.
 

Ripskin

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Ive wanted to get into VR for years but have not been able to bring myself to invest yet. I love the Index, am willing to pay the steep price for the higher quality and live with the light houses but I would love to see something add better tracking on the device or mix it with A lighthouse or something overhead to trim down the wire requirements. I have a good sized room right now to move about in and would love to play a number of the games but just don't think I would enjoy it that much with some of the current limitations. Maybe if the price drops (not holding my breath) or one of the main brands really steps it up next gen. We'll see.
 

bigbluefe

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Yup keep pretending it's not snake oil when no one's buying it and not even a new Half-Life game can really move units. I'm sure the facts will change if you just keep saying stuff.

The bottom line is that it's a gimmick, and motion controls have so far proven out to be a net loss (traditional controls still work better in basically every type of game).
 

reaper12

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I'm sorry that argument is even worse. You argue that an experience cannot be significantly better if the input devices are the same. That's nonsense. If being able to look around isn't a huge advantage in plane flying why does the government pay over $400,000 for a helmet to let fighter pilots virtually look through the solid parts of their plane (https://www.wired.com/2016/06/course-f-35-comes-400000-augmented-reality-helmet/). Being able to look around is everything when doing dogfighting. According to you, being a drone pilot via a flat screen is the same experience as actually flying the plane because the controls are the same. Hint: Its not. If flat screen and VR are the same experience, why is the military moving to VR for flight training and getting better results compared with their previous simulator trainers using flat screens (https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/air-force-vr-pilot-training). Its been demonstrated in the real world that the experience with VR flight sims and flat sims are very different experiences... I don't know why you insist on arguing otherwise.


Your claim that VR input can't be better than "traditional controls" isn't even true. It's already possible with an add on IR kit (PointCTRL) to be able to be able to virtually reach out and press buttons. The Oculus quest can already do hand tracking and its only a matter of time before you can put a board in front of you and use VR to touch virtual buttons in the cockpit without anything other than the cameras on a VR headset. Try making a physical cockpit that matches every plane you want to fly... not practical at all.


P.S. That's ignoring the fact that you used "traditional controls" in a previous post to refer to M/KB or controllers when talking about HL Alyx. Don't write something ambiguous and expect people to read your mind and then complain about "horrible reading comprehension".
Bravo, great post.

But, you are wasting your time. He is a Troll and clueless about VR. As you can see by his latest post.
 

bobzdar

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Having tried a bunch of headsets starting with the old dk1, if I had to choose one headset it'd be the quest.
 

GreenOrbs

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Having tried a bunch of headsets starting with the old dk1, if I had to choose one headset it'd be the quest.
I'm really looking forward to the next gen quest as well. I've owned the following: Samsung Gear, Google Daydream, Lenovo Explorer, Oculus GO, Oculus Rift, Samsung Odyssey+, and now in the last few weeks the Quest as well. Loving the wire free experience with Virtual Desktop streaming. Thinking about upgrading to an Index/Quest combo. I think the quest is a good starting point to see if VR is worth it for a new user.
 

Hagrid

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I'm really looking forward to the next gen quest as well. I've owned the following: Samsung Gear, Google Daydream, Lenovo Explorer, Oculus GO, Oculus Rift, Samsung Odyssey+, and now in the last few weeks the Quest as well. Loving the wire free experience with Virtual Desktop streaming. Thinking about upgrading to an Index/Quest combo. I think the quest is a good starting point to see if VR is worth it for a new user.
Yeah, I would love to try a Index. I will wait and see what is coming out next. I hope they have more with the lighthouses and a version with more need for power instead of catering to the low as well.
 

Hakaba

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Would recommend giving House of the Dying Sun a try in VR, feels fun for a quick combat space shooter.
 
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