Diablo 3 Discussion Thread

Intel_Hydralisk said:
I wouldn't lump everyone who isn't satisfied with the game into the category of 'unrealistic expectations'. I didn't have unrealistic expectations, but I'm certainly not satisfied with the game for other reasons.

I see the upgrades/drop thing quoted a lot. Blizzard explained it best in terms of statistics - but to paraphrase and put it very extremely simply: It really doesn't matter what the drop rate is on items. Conceptually, you can't keep getting upgrades indefinitely. As soon as you get an upgrade, the pool of items that are an upgrade for that slot is now smaller so statistically you will now get less upgrades.

The real issue is with their base itemization and the stat distribution on gear. Drop rates are not low. This is very obvious as Inferno is now a shower of rares. It's the inherent statistical issues with the stat distribution on gear and how reliant gear is on pure stats. Rather than vague generalities, I think it's far more constructive to analyze the issue on a deeper level vs. saying "i don't get upgrades" - since that's not realistic in any game really.

D3 does give you plenty of upgrades as you level if not only by the virtue that you're out leveling your gear, which is essentially what happened in games like Torchlight and Borderlands. People just never farmed those games ad nauseum at end game because no one expected to and that wasn't the point of those games.
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I guess the main thing is that I don't care enough to analyze it on a deeper level. I understand what you're saying. The gear thing makes sense now, but I suppose what I wanted was to be playing and getting upgrades at least every now and then, as opposed to "how long has it been since I got something I can actually use?". Also, I hate to keep bringing it up, but just once more, I REALLY hate the RMAH. I don't want to make real money using the RMAH. I don't want to use the RMAH to look for gear someone ELSE found. I don't want to use it period. Ever. If I wanted to fish for ways to make money, I'd hit the stock market, and I get enough of that to last me a life time.

What other reasons were you unsatisfied with?
 
DJ Big T said:
Not really. I've been leveling some low level characters and going through the AH once I stack at least 10k gold from just running through events, acts, etc a few times and I can say that wow there is a huge jump in hit points, for example, as you level up. Also the damage I do with decent gear as I level up scales well. It's after level 30 that things get kinda redundant, IMO.
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That's what I'm talking about. Hitting level 60 is incredibly quick, after which... :confused:
 
Yup. Up until 99, you were still developing your character further. Obviously Diablo is a game heavy into stats, so I can't justify the removal of a whole layer of character progression.

As it stands now, you don't really gear for builds so much outside of a couple. Generally if a slot item is good for one Monk, it will be good for all Monks (WD, Barb..). It almost negates the need for random loot generation.

If anyone gets bored with D3, try some MedianXL for D2 LoD.
 
TwistedAegis said:
That's what I'm talking about. Hitting level 60 is incredibly quick, after which... :confused:
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Yep. Honestly once you hit 60 with all the different classes of characters that's pretty much it since Act 1-2 inferno is doable, 3-4 is not. I tried the whole buy gear, etc, thing and it is a pain. Not really worth it IMO. Now I just hope to find new friends to exchange gear so I can stay off the AH/RMAH and not spend money. Most of the time now I find gear for my chars by just playing - but it takes a long time.
 
1. Crap story
2. Crap items
3. Game is too short and linear. There is practically no randomization within the game world which leaves players with very little to practically no sense of exploration.
4. No end game, no pvp.

Utter shit and boring game. Playing D3 makes me want to quit playing the genre all together. I was bored out of my mind playing this game. What a piece of garbage. I feel sad for those still playing this. Myself and all my friends have already quit it, weeks ago.
 
DJ Big T said:
Yep. Honestly once you hit 60 with all the different classes of characters that's pretty much it since Act 1-2 inferno is doable, 3-4 is not. I tried the whole buy gear, etc, thing and it is a pain. Not really worth it IMO. Now I just hope to find new friends to exchange gear so I can stay off the AH/RMAH and not spend money. Most of the time now I find gear for my chars by just playing - but it takes a long time.
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Pass. Fuck that shit. I realize it's a game and the combined time of playing other games can be time spent doing the same thing over and over here, it's all relative to what you want to do. But my god.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
As it stands now, you don't really gear for builds so much outside of a couple. Generally if a slot item is good for one Monk, it will be good for all Monks (WD, Barb..). It almost negates the need for random loot generation.
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Exactly. It also removed one of the best itemizations which was skill-specific. A +3/+4 to multiple skills you were using was like the holy grail. An item with +10 more vit/int as a wizard comes along maybe once every 20 runs...hooray... :(
 
havnt played for 3weeks. dont enjoy grinding. couldnt kill diablo on inferno due to lack of gear and patience.

most of my friends has also stopped playing.
 
BiH115 said:
I guess the main thing is that I don't care enough to analyze it on a deeper level. I understand what you're saying. The gear thing makes sense now, but I suppose what I wanted was to be playing and getting upgrades at least every now and then, as opposed to "how long has it been since I got something I can actually use?". Also, I hate to keep bringing it up, but just once more, I REALLY hate the RMAH. I don't want to make real money using the RMAH. I don't want to use the RMAH to look for gear someone ELSE found. I don't want to use it period. Ever. If I wanted to fish for ways to make money, I'd hit the stock market, and I get enough of that to last me a life time.

What other reasons were you unsatisfied with?
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I haven't exchanged anything on the RMAH... and never really planned to. Hardcore also does not have a RMAH and I enjoyed that for a little bit. I had a slight itch to start playing HC again after my Wiz died in inferno, but the steam sale hit and that's that. Unless I was running some sort of bot farm, it's not efficient to 'make money' from the RMAH. The adults who have real jobs all know the value of 1 hour of their time.

I think all my opinions about why I don't want to play the game has been said in some collection of posts I've made in this thread, but here are the cliffs:

- The developers have officially disconnected themselves from being actual players. A lot of changes and design decisions reek of the lack of actual gameplay experience and the insight / foresight an actual gamer would have. I can list examples, but I've beaten them to the ground before.

- Inferno was a terrible idea. Its intent, purpose, design, and presentation are a huge mess. 1.03 was an attempt to remedy the most obvious flaws (which I actually pointed out in this thread not too long after the game released), but they simultaneously botched other things in 1.03 that made me simply lose faith in their developers (see first point).

- I already mentioned, but the base itemization system is not ideal. Diablo games are essentially gambling games so the entire gear system can be analyzed mathematically. On the surface, there isn't too much wrong with the itemization / AH system based on sheer statistics. But this also depends on what they had in mind for players. The real issue is how all of this interacts with players - human beings. The end result is a slew of misguided complaints like I've mentioned before. But for those of us who are aware of the statistics involved, it becomes an empirical futility to play into the itemization system at end game. If their real intent was for players to beat inferno, then the game's already done for me. This ties back into point 2, what the heck is the point of Inferno then. They botched that up big time.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
- The developers have officially disconnected themselves from being actual players. A lot of changes and design decisions reek of the lack of actual gameplay experience and the insight / foresight an actual gamer would have. I can list examples, but I've beaten them to the ground before.
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I think this is a great point, and it isn't just D3. It seems to be a symptom of the entire industry right now. We have statistics and raw numbers and everything being done individually in a vacuum - none of it analyzed as a whole to see if the GAME is actually FUN.
 
Q-BZ said:
I'm betting Torchlight 2 is going to cure these Diablo 3 blues.
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I'm sure it will. TL2 is the underdog so it won't have a raving nest of raging ravenous rats religiously ranting about its perceived rough edges.

Hell I don't even think TL2 has to be a good game at this point and at it will get a rather large hand full of people who will buy it out of some sort of misplaced spite towards Diablo 3.


I used to think TL2 did it wrong by not releasing before D3 but now I'm thinking they are playing their cards quite well piggy backing off of D3's success and failures. It will probably release right about when people start to get tired of D3 and have time to move over to TL2.
 
stevedave said:
I'm sure it will. TL2 is the underdog so it won't have a raving nest of raging ravenous rats religiously ranting about its perceived rough edges.
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10 points for alliteration.

Anyway. I think TL2 will do well because it is focused on having fun. Though, I'm willing to bet Grim Dawn will be the best diablo-like to date.
 
I think TL2 is a fundamentally different game despite being in the same genre. Last I heard, there wasn't a closed system. This gives players maximum freedom - but what we're likely to see is something akin to Open Battle.net. That's just a completely different game really.

And just like Open B.net in D2... who would actually grind for their gear? It might challenge the very notion that players actually enjoyed grinding for gear in D2. There's a reason everything was duped / botted yet people simultaneously liked D2.
 
I didn't dupe, bot or buy gear in D2. Still find it fun.

I think you're just compartmentalizing too much I_H.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I didn't dupe, bot or buy gear in D2. Still find it fun.

I think you're just compartmentalizing too much I_H.
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But the global economy was affected by the fact that tons of stuff was duped / botted.

Out of all the people that enjoyed D2, how many people farmed a boss thousands of times (manually, no bot) for a drop they wanted?
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
But the global economy was affected by the fact that tons of stuff was duped / botted.

Out of all the people that enjoyed D2, how many people farmed a boss thousands of times (manually, no bot) for a drop they wanted?
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I know I did. Plenty of Pindleskin and meph runs. Also that trash before Baal...and baal himself.

I at least went threw 7 mice in my d2 days
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
But the global economy was affected by the fact that tons of stuff was duped / botted.

Out of all the people that enjoyed D2, how many people farmed a boss thousands of times (manually, no bot) for a drop they wanted?
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Yes, the global economy was affected. That's true. However, that's not something you had to participate in, and the game was still fun anyway, even SP.

I farmed it pretty heavily and never exploited the game in that way. I was usually farming for set gear and a few uniques. I never did get a Zod or anything, just partials.
 
MavericK96 said:
If you played primarily SP/co-op, you didn't give two shits about the global economy, though.
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You didn't really have to give a shit about gear in general if you just wanted to kill stuff. Which goes back to how Blizzard botched the way they presented Inferno. It's only natural to assume it's the natural progression past hell. No one would be content repeating Hell content when Inferno exists. Oops.

I know I did. Plenty of Pindleskin and meph runs. Also that trash before Baal...and baal himself.

I at least went threw 7 mice in my d2 days
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Do you enjoy farming in D3? If not, what made D2 farming more enjoyable?
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
You didn't really have to give a shit about gear in general if you just wanted to kill stuff. Which goes back to how Blizzard botched the way they presented Inferno. It's only natural to assume it's the natural progression past hell. No one would be content repeating Hell content when Inferno exists. Oops.
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Yeah, true. I'm not disagreeing with you in any way about D3, just pointing out that it seems several people in this thread (maybe not you) keep arguing against D2's system because it was hacked/duped a lot. Which, unless you played exclusively Battle.net games, didn't really matter to you. Plus there was no RMAH, nor any AH of any kind, so even if the "economy" was "messed up", who is that really hurting? PvPer's who want to buy gear on grey-market sites, I guess?
 
After close to 400 hours or so on D3 i still quite enjoy it, busy leveling a wizard after abandoning my barb in ACT3 inferno for now. Was playing on the European servers and they seem to just suck compared to US ones - also auction house is far more active on US then European and ping is way better.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Do you enjoy farming in D3? If not, what made D2 farming more enjoyable?
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For me, farming in D2 was more fun because gear had more interesting mods, was more plentiful, and either augmented a build or was the basis for a build.

One thing that struck me as stupid in D3 was that lower level set gear makes absolutely no sense to have in game. You can't farm an entire set out at level 30. You probably will never see even 2 items from a single set drop, let alone see them drop before you've outleveled them. The only viable option is twinking or AH.
 
Farming differences to me are like this.

Diablo 2 ---- Faster runs, less Items to pick up, better Good items percentages, A working Teleport, Runes, better Set Items drops.

Diablo 3 ---- Slower runs, More Items to pick up resulting in worse percentages, Legendary weapons blow, better party system even though its limited to 4 players.

the feeling I get while farming both games is the same. Tedious but still fun and rewarding when something is found. I normally farm with friends while watching a movie so the tedium is drastically reduced and I enjoy myself very much.
 
DXHHH18 said:
The AH/RMAH directly affects the quality of gear you see ingame (as in drop chances) and its ruined the game for me.
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I guess I don't get what you are saying. The AH has nothing to do with drop rates.

Even with all the dupes going on there was an extensive 3rd party market for D2 items. Now they just put that market into the game. It could have been implemented better especially since they have multiple years of experience with the WOW AH but the AH itself doesn't ruin anything, neither does the RMAH.

I bought D3, played a barbarian till I had about 50k gold on Saturday, and today I am up to 500k gold strictly by AH trading. I sold my first item on the RMAH and made a couple bucks after Blizzard tax. I have no intention of leveling a character to 60 or run the content over and over. My goal for D3 is to make $300/mo purely by reselling without to invest more than 10 hours into those $300. As of now I see it as totally doable. In fact I see much higher income potential once Blizz nerfs the gear swap.
 
Thuleman said:
I guess I don't get what you are saying. The AH has nothing to do with drop rates.

Even with all the dupes going on there was an extensive 3rd party market for D2 items. Now they just put that market into the game. It could have been implemented better especially since they have multiple years of experience with the WOW AH but the AH itself doesn't ruin anything, neither does the RMAH.
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Well, friction/ease of access does have an effect. With the AH/RMAH officially sanctioned and in the game with 0 risk, the amount of people taking part in it will increase drastically, thus drop rates need to be lower (well not the rate, but the quality of each drop). The WOW AH is significantly different because the majority of the best gear will be BOP/BOE/BOA and the gear is a known quantity - it isn't randomly generated loot.

At this point honestly I'd rather have them decrease the amount of rares you get with NV stacks and increase the quality. A flood of shit-tastic rares just cheapens the experience. I'd rather have an actual "ooooh!" moment when a rare drops instead of, "Meh, I have to ID this POS then sell it."
 
How many times does damage reflect bounce? If my barb had overpower with damage reflect, would it reflect damage from an elite with reflect damage?

That'd be pretty fun if it was infinite. One swipe, you're dead because the mob has you beat on hp by a few million.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
How many times does damage reflect bounce? If my barb had overpower with damage reflect, would it reflect damage from an elite with reflect damage?

That'd be pretty fun if it was infinite. One swipe, you're dead because the mob has you beat on hp by a few million.
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Hilarious if it worked that way, but I don't think it does as I think reflect damage from enemies has a limit. When my Wizard goes Akon mode on a group of Illusionist+reflect damage Hordes he should die instantly but I think the reflect damage is capped.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
How many times does damage reflect bounce? If my barb had overpower with damage reflect, would it reflect damage from an elite with reflect damage?

That'd be pretty fun if it was infinite. One swipe, you're dead because the mob has you beat on hp by a few million.
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reflect damage has never been a problem with my barb(melee characters in general). In fact it is a joke and one of the best effects a elite pack can have. Means one less annoying affix.
 
You guys should know that Unidentified item stats are being revealed without being identified

ones most affected by this are those buying/gambling on unidentified items
 
Suprfire said:
You guys should know that Unidentified item stats are being revealed without being identified

ones most affected by this are those buying/gambling on unidentified items
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Holy shit that sucks, it's all over the forums. I was making good money selling my unids. I think that legit unid trading should be allowed, but now my steady income is gone :(
 
Wow that's hilarious. From what I see on reddit there are programs where you can input the item code and it will give you a rough guess on what the stats are.
 
Unids didn't really make any sense in D3, or in D2 for that matter. The process of IDing was lame in either game from a game mechanics perspective. From a buy/sell perspective it was something that essentially added gambling to the system much on the level of crafting an item. Unclear why they felt the need to remove unid'ed trading.
 
TwistedAegis said:
Well, friction/ease of access does have an effect. With the AH/RMAH officially sanctioned and in the game with 0 risk, the amount of people taking part in it will increase drastically, thus drop rates need to be lower (well not the rate, but the quality of each drop). The WOW AH is significantly different because the majority of the best gear will be BOP/BOE/BOA and the gear is a known quantity - it isn't randomly generated loot.

At this point honestly I'd rather have them decrease the amount of rares you get with NV stacks and increase the quality. A flood of shit-tastic rares just cheapens the experience. I'd rather have an actual "ooooh!" moment when a rare drops instead of, "Meh, I have to ID this POS then sell it."
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I had a legendary drop in an act 1 farm run inferno mode. It was a level 50ish 2 handed sword with 350ish dps. WOOT WOOT. Fantastic loot. I'd much rather get 1 drop off a boss/rare/elite and have it be a good to awesome level 60 item, then the level 50-55 shit & blues that I keep getting


Diablo 2 was also better because at high levels in hell mode I felt that grouping actually benefitted me. In Diablo 3 I feel like grouping just makes it harder.

I'm also getting stuck in a2 inferno. I'm on the quest where you go to find zultans blood but I'm running into rare mobs that are just so rough. I can't say I enjoy the constant vortex/wall/jailer mobs as a DH, think I may need some more resistance or something.
 
Suprfire said:
You guys should know that Unidentified item stats are being revealed without being identified

ones most affected by this are those buying/gambling on unidentified items
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This f'ing sucks. I'm thinking about giving up on D3. None of my friends play anymore and I'm the only one left. Soloing gets old nowadays.
 
I can honestly say Im only still playing because Im making $100-$200 dollars a week off the RMAH. Otherwise Id be gone..
 
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