Dell U2412M

http://www.digitalversus.com/monitor-review-dell-u2412m-24-1920x1200-ips-display-news-20716.html

latest review

guy talks about 'reverse ghosting' and says don't use this monitor for gaming

comments from owners? you guys seeing this stuff in your gaming?

That review is another crappy digital versus review. They aren't reviews, they are briefings. I ran their stupid little web test with the moving images and it was juddering and jerky so I stopped it. In fact during my pictures that I took, I received the EXACT same image they received, and it was exactly during one of those "juddering jumps" where the image jumped too far across the screen in one frame (for lack of a better description).

Laughable.

A very bad cherry picked test that they justify by saying "whatever looks good in this test, looks good to our eyes".

Very scientific. Maybe just above a CNet review IMO.

I was specifically looking for it the last two nights playing some third person and first person games, doing quick movements and spins and there was no issue.

That review is older but recently translated, and if we wanted to remove over drive reverse ghosting (if we possibly see any), there is a service menu we can access and turn it off.
 
I would like to calibrate my u2412m.

Can anyone suggest a decent tool (software + hardware) I can get to calibrate it? Nothing too fancy but something that works with this monitor and will get the job done.

Thanks!
 
The DataColor Spyder3 and X-Rite I1D2 are probably not good for a W-LED backlit screen currently.

In another thread I suggested trying the X-Rite ColorMunki Display as a potential software/hardware combo for these types of screens.

There is also the new up and coming I1D3 which may be sufficient, but it looks to be more expensive than the ColorMunki Display, so it depends on what you want to spend.
 
http://www.digitalversus.com/monitor-review-dell-u2412m-24-1920x1200-ips-display-news-20716.html

latest review

guy talks about 'reverse ghosting' and says don't use this monitor for gaming

comments from owners? you guys seeing this stuff in your gaming?

as 10e has said, not a terribly reliable review.

Worse still, there's no way to turn it off, so you're stuck with reverse ghosting. We strongly recommend you don't use this screen for gaming, or indeed any other application which features fast-moving objects onscreen.

Although there is some overshoot other website reviews and several users here have said that it is not too severe at all and in fact the response times are very good. DV say you cant turn it off, when in fact you can turn off OD (and eliminate overshoot if it's really a concern to you) via the OSD factory menu :)

and the colour temperature (which is too low, leading to a red tinge).

i believe they are using an i1 Display 2 there which wont read the white point / colour temp properly anyway. other measurements using spectrophotometers have confirmed factory white point is very close to 6500k. it could be they had a dodgy unit though i suppose.
 
The DataColor Spyder3 and X-Rite I1D2 are probably not good for a W-LED backlit screen currently.

In another thread I suggested trying the X-Rite ColorMunki Display as a potential software/hardware combo for these types of screens.

There is also the new up and coming I1D3 which may be sufficient, but it looks to be more expensive than the ColorMunki Display, so it depends on what you want to spend.


The colormunki is around $400+!!! Yikes!

I was thinking along $100-150. It does not have to be absolutely perfectly accurate. I am a hobbyist photographer, so decent calibration will do for me.
 
New Spyder3 are using inorganic (more stable) filters and they are likely the best bet on the lower end of calibration packages.
 
Well, got mine today. Fast shipping!

It's all hooked up. I am using 10e's settings.

I don't see any dead pixels, no yellowish tint.

I would say there is a normal amount of ips glow. Nothing I'm worried about.

There may be a tinge of backlight bleed in the upper, right corner, but I am not certain. My eyes can't tell if it's ips glow or not. When I look at it straight on I think it looks normal.

Anyway, I don't think there's anything dissatisfying to send it back. Then again, I don't think I am quiet the pixel-peeper some of you are.

I used this link for various visual tests.

For the price, my only regret is that I couldn't get a 27-30" for THIS price. Otherwise, happy so far.
 
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Interesting how Prad.de's unit (and mine) had the large gamut error with blue, but tftcentral's was perfect. Maybe there is a panel lottery going on?

Hard to tell what digitalversus chart is saying exactly but it seems their blue and green are significantly off too.

I hate to be a negative nancy but I don't think I could recommend this monitor to anyone unless you were to get one with a good gamut like tftcentral did.
 
Interesting how Prad.de's unit (and mine) had the large gamut error with blue, but tftcentral's was perfect. Maybe there is a panel lottery going on?

Hard to tell what digitalversus chart is saying exactly but it seems their blue and green are significantly off too.

I hate to be a negative nancy but I don't think I could recommend this monitor to anyone unless you were to get one with a good gamut like tftcentral did.

Could you be more specific about this and how to detect it?
 
Interesting how Prad.de's unit (and mine) had the large gamut error with blue, but tftcentral's was perfect. Maybe there is a panel lottery going on?

I would say there is about zero chance of a traditional panel lotto going on. Generally this refers to getting different panel models (usually from different manufacturers). Here I have no doubt everyone is getting the same model LG e-IPS panel. It could just be batch variations.

Though I do find Prads results harder to interpret than a simple Primary Triangle. I didn't notice anything in their translated text that said their blue primary was significantly out of wack, though they were not impressed before calibration, after calibration they didn't seem critical of the results.

Again I am reading Google Translated results so maybe I missed that part.
 
Just curious, is there an official thread somewhere for reviews comparing the U2412M vs.the ZR24w?
 
I didn't notice anything in their translated text that said their blue primary was significantly out of wack, though they were not impressed before calibration, after calibration they didn't seem critical of the results.
Nothing to worry about. Gamut coverage is (also regarding its characteristic) comparable to most other screens without extended color space (example for an IPS screen with CCFL blu (72% NTSC)). There are only a few screens that achieve a better volumetric match regarding sRGB. If that (or more) is necessary one should chosse a screen with WCG-CCFL or RGB-LED blu instead.

Best regards

Denis
 
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Hmmm. I like my panel. Nothing wrong with it.

After reading a little more, I wonder if the ZR24w would be better for digital photo (sRGB) work.

Should I send it back and buy the HP...hmmm....
 
I would also like to add that I tend to be quite sensitive to AG coating but I am having zero problems with the coating on the U2412M. No harsh shimmering/snowflake effect.
 
Hmmm. I like my panel. Nothing wrong with it.

After reading a little more, I wonder if the ZR24w would be better for digital photo (sRGB) work.

Should I send it back and buy the HP...hmmm....

The visual difference between them borders on insignificant and will be more than likely swamped by inter-panel variations (common on LG IPS panels).

I would NOT send either back for the other expecting different performance. If you have no defects in your current one keep it. Exchanging for ZR24w is just more wasted time and the potential to get a defective one. I would say the same thing if you have ZR24w that had no issues.

But if you have time to kill, and shipping monitors is your idea of fun, go for it.
 
The colormunki is around $400+!!! Yikes!

I was thinking along $100-150. It does not have to be absolutely perfectly accurate. I am a hobbyist photographer, so decent calibration will do for me.

ColorMunki Design and Photo are the spectrophotometer versions. The ColorMunki Display is the colorimeter version and runs $200.00 and includes their software.

The Display version looks like a slightly lower end version of their upcoming Eye One Display 3 or Eye One Pro.

Hmmm. I like my panel. Nothing wrong with it.

After reading a little more, I wonder if the ZR24w would be better for digital photo (sRGB) work.

Should I send it back and buy the HP...hmmm....

I doubt it. The ZR24w can have decent color calibration (though results will vary) but if you want higher contrast you blow out the calibration in favor of deeper blacks by cranking contrast.

If you have a good U2412M (by your account) it's likely as usable and good as a "good" ZR24W, if not possibly a little bit better.

I wouldn't recommend it, and I personally believe it would be a time suck to do so, as Snowdog says above.

If you think there is a difference between "full 8-bit" and the 6-bit + A-FRC I can tell you the difference is so little that you would be very hard-pressed to find it.
 
Thanks to Dok for posting that blank screen site. Had my monitor 4 days now. Using 10e's settings for now, with brightness at 28. White/Red/Green/Blue look awfully good. Black has a big black oval in the middle and some bleeding in the corners, especially lower right and upper right. Shifting viewing point further away, vertically and to some degree horizontally adjusts it. Does that sound pretty normal of an e-IPS and this monitor?
 
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Did your screens come with a displayport cable or do we need to buy separately?

No displayport cable included annoyingly. VGA and DVI are. The cable you link to would be correct for the monitor end, mini-displayport is a smaller plug. What GPU are you plugging it into though, some have DP some mini-DP? Normal displayport is roughly HDMI port sized for reference. Also, is length enough? (1.5m..)
 
Ah that's a shame. My gpu is a ATI 5850. There's a port next to the hdmi one that's just slighty bigger.
Length should be ok, might get the 2m one to be safe.
 
if you guys need any cables, check out monoprice

i have heard nothing but great things about their cables...and they are dirt cheap...HDMI, display port, DVI dual link, all in stock and ready to go
 
I would NOT send either back for the other expecting different performance. If you have no defects in your current one keep it. Exchanging for ZR24w is just more wasted time and the potential to get a defective one. I would say the same thing if you have ZR24w that had no issues.

But if you have time to kill, and shipping monitors is your idea of fun, go for it.

+1

I received my second replacement (first they accidentaly sent me that U2410) from Dell few days back, and it had more or less the same defects as my original. Actually, a bit more of the backlight bleed, and an odd 'bluish' image that I wasn't able fix to my preference, no matter how I tuned the settings. I had the two screens side by side for comparison. Also the image on my original screen seemed more 'crisp' (sharpness settings were the same and untouched), and it produced much more pleasing image overall. The blacks and dark tones seemed somewhat slightly "washed" on the replacement - a little nitpicking, but that was the case.

The good news came along when I thought to take some photos for comparison. It has been roughly over 2 weeks now that I've used my original U2412M. During that time the backlight bleed on it had decreased so noticeably, that it was now hard to catch on camera. :cool: So they can improve over time, mine just took this long.

So I sent the replacement back. Overall I was pleased with the Dell customer service, they even suggested to send me a new replacement again. But I'm actually good now with my original. :) And I noticed that shipping monitors isn't my idea of fun. :D
 
Though I do find Prads results harder to interpret than a simple Primary Triangle. I didn't notice anything in their translated text that said their blue primary was significantly out of wack, though they were not impressed before calibration, after calibration they didn't seem critical of the results.

Again I am reading Google Translated results so maybe I missed that part.

Their comparison with sRGB is on page 11 of the review where you can see the dE for blue is 6.2. Also Sailor_Moon compared gamut data between mine and theirs, and they were practically identical.

After much discussion with Sailor_Moon on this issue it seems that the error is coming from that fact that it is undersaturated and thus requires a lot more luminance to produce D65 white. Compared to the sRGB blue, its luminance is much higher (+46% on my unit) and of course is undersaturated too.


gamut from icc from tftcentral
gam2412ftf.jpg

^ This blue doesn't seem to match with the CIE diagram in their review:

calibrated_custom.jpg


As you can see the blue is actually very accurate on their unit.
 
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As you can see the blue is actually very accurate on their unit.
This deltaE graph shows only a profile validation. The actual color samples are compared to the accordant transformations of the actual display profile* (btw: it makes no sense to compare these values to a run of a profile validation against a working color space prior to calibration - although this is unfortunately done in many reviews). Our measurement on page 11 is based on a custom solution**. Target was sRGB and the display profile was considered for appropriate transformations including gamut mapping (relative colorimetric rendering intent; samples outside display gamut are mapped to the calculated gamut boundary, all samples within display gamut can theoretically be mapped perfectly, good to see for the measured tertiary colors (red2...yellow2)). But you can find a simple profile validation too on page 10 (bottom).

A dE94 of 6.2 is nothing to worry about?
You will experience comparable undercoverages on most other screens without extended color space. Have a look at the linked test for the NEC SV231 (CCFL blu, 72% NTSC). Much more problematic is the out of the box neutrality (see pre calibration chroma deviations regarding display whitepoint) and gradation characteristic (haven't looked at these results until now).

Best regards

Denis

*
So the display gamut has absolute no influence on these deviations. You can get a perfect profile validation of a theroretical screen with for example 10% sRGB coverage - target is the display profile itself

**
Unfortunately little to late for the U2412 review we have considerably extended its potential - this would show that the impact of these undercoverages is quite small regarding sRGB as working color space (for the general behaviour in managed applications please see the text in brackets about the rendering intent in the first paragraph above).
 
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+1

I received my second replacement (first they accidentaly sent me that U2410) from Dell few days back, and it had more or less the same defects as my original.

Curious, does Dell typically send NEW replacements or refurbished units for monitors?

Also, do they by chance include a free return shipping label with their monitor replacements?

Being picky is quite tiring and costly sometimes :p. At least from my panel hunting experience so far. Good to see you got a panel you're satisfied with though. It feels like a lottery in most cases.
 
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This deltaE graph shows only a profile validation.

Yes, but look at tftcentral's CIE triangle at blue, it's actually slightly oversaturated, where as on yours and mine it was heavily undersaturated and tinted towards green, which is the cause of the problem (dE94 6.2 with respect to sRGB - a significant error).


So the display gamut has absolute no influence on these deviations.

So then there are never going to be any deviations regardless of how bad the gamut is, in which case what is the point of even plotting them on a chart? This is what I never understood about these "self validation" charts :)

What we should be doing is comparing its performance with sRGB, and in that area the U2412 falls a bit short, unless of course you get one with a gamut like tftcentral did.
 
Yes, but look at tftcentral's CIE triangle at blue
Beside from the problem that the CIE chromaticity diagramm has big problems regarding perceptual uniformity (even Lab isn't perceptual uniform, that's why extended distance formulas like the dE 94 or 2000 were developed) this presentation doesn't reflect the situation. Here is the CIE chromaticity diagramm with the primaries of:

sRGB (black)
your display (green)
tftcentral (red)

All values were taken from the ICC profiles and adapted from D50 to D65*

3130323761666563.jpg


unless of course you get one with a gamut like tftcentral did.
Some more numbers:

- When taking the blue primary out of the tftcentral profile, adapting it to D65 and comparing it with the sRGB reference you get a deltaE 94 of 5.

- deltaL between sRGB blue primary and your blue primary: 6,6

- deltaL between sRGB blue primary and tftecentrals blue primary: 4,46

Absolute luminance deviation (please keep in mind that this is normal for the actual primary positions as we want a linear presentation):

- Your display vs sRGB blue primary @D65 white: +32%

- Tftcentrals display vs sRGB blue primary @D65 white: +24%

So then there are never going to be any deviations regardless of how bad the gamut is
With a simpe profile validation: Yes.

in which case what is the point of even plotting them on a chart?
A profile validation gives hints about how linear and neutral the screen behaves (especially when many samples are measured and a matrix profile is used), if there are any unwanted drifts and when it is time for recalibration/ reprofilation at the latest. But as I said, it is very often misunderstood and misinterpreted.

Best regards

Denis

*
Because I'm so often speaking of D65 here: It is not necessary to work @D65 whitepoint for a correct representation. That's one popular "urban legend" especially in the TV sector.The whitepoint should be perceptual neutral regarding your colour matching/ ambient conditions
 
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Curious, does Dell typically send NEW replacements or refurbished units for monitors?

Also, do they by chance include a free return shipping label with their monitor replacements?

Being picky is quite tiring and costly sometimes :p. At least from my panel hunting experience so far. Good to see you got a panel you're satisfied with though. It feels like a lottery in most cases.

Both that I got seemed new. I think it's mentioned on some other thread that there's usually a green sticker at the back (or bottom) of the screen if it's a refurb. Maybe someone can correct me on this. Neither one that I received had it.

As for the returning policies, I called to Dell techical service for the details. On default you would have to have the defect monitor ready and packed for the swap when the new screen is delivered. But as I asked, they confirmed it was Ok (at least in my case) to tell the courier service to come back and pick up the defect monitor day or two later. These may vary locally, of course.

I can be picky time to time and although I'm quite satisfied with the one I got, it's not as perfect as couple I've seen posted here (judging from the photos). But I see the frequent swapping (and the concept of 'panel lottery') somewhat frustrating, at least now, when the defects on my original unit appears to have diminished under reasonable amount.
 
Thanks to Dok for posting that blank screen site. Had my monitor 4 days now. Using 10e's settings for now, with brightness at 28. White/Red/Green/Blue look awfully good. Black has a big black oval in the middle and some bleeding in the corners, especially lower right and upper right. Shifting viewing point further away, vertically and to some degree horizontally adjusts it. Does that sound pretty normal of an e-IPS and this monitor?

If you look at it from a few feet back, does that big black oval with the creeping white corners of white "mirrorish" haze disappear or get much bigger? If it does, that is IPS glow and nothing to worry about. Backlight bleed will show up when viewed straight-on from a few feet back.

Again as Dok has also noticed, it's good to wait a few days to let the construction tension loosen before wanting a replacement.

+1

...

The good news came along when I thought to take some photos for comparison. It has been roughly over 2 weeks now that I've used my original U2412M. During that time the backlight bleed on it had decreased so noticeably, that it was now hard to catch on camera. :cool: So they can improve over time, mine just took this long.

So I sent the replacement back. Overall I was pleased with the Dell customer service, they even suggested to send me a new replacement again. But I'm actually good now with my original. :) And I noticed that shipping monitors isn't my idea of fun. :D

LOL, it's never fun shipping stuff back and forth, but at least the U2412M box is a normal size and weight. Imagine a 30" !

I don't know why this happens, as it happened on my unit too. My small amount went away after about a week (give or take)
 
I just used my ancient Spyder2Pro to calibrate to sRGB and ended up with these settings:

Brightness: 40
Contrast: 76

R: 97
G: 92
B: 86

(Nearly identical to 10e's settings.)
 
Returning my old U2412M has proven to be quite a hassle, as the first time around the phone agent made a new order rather than arrange a replacement. Not sure if he did that to boost his sales or just out of ignorance. Either way, hasn't been as easy as I remember Dell SB being.

Also, the screen has a very cold tone to it, which I attribute to the LEDs. The whites are blue/purple and colors that I used to see as blue on my 2007WFP and 2007FP are a little purplish, such as the blue XP taskbar. I might look into the ZR24w as a replacement.
 
I ordered one U2412M for myself, but it hasnt arrived yet. Meanwhile I thought to ask, that is my graphics card, which is MSI radeon 4650 (if I recall correctly) good enough for using a U2412M? I don't really know, if this kinda new monitor has any serious requirements when it comes to the graphics cards. Does my card for example show the colors as well as a newer card would, or perhaps there's not any difference in that regard?
 
I ordered one U2412M for myself, but it hasnt arrived yet. Meanwhile I thought to ask, that is my graphics card, which is MSI radeon 4650 (if I recall correctly) good enough for using a U2412M? I don't really know, if this kinda new monitor has any serious requirements when it comes to the graphics cards. Does my card for example show the colors as well as a newer card would, or perhaps there's not any difference in that regard?

I am running a 4850. Your card is fine in terms of 2D/desktop rendering. No worries. Just make sure you can output DVI, VGA, or DisplayPort.
 
Here is the CIE chromaticity diagramm with the primaries of:

sRGB (black)
your display (green)
tftcentral (red)

3130323761666563.jpg

Compared with the chart on their review page, it's not the same blue:

calibrated_custom.jpg


You can see it is actually oversaturated blue on that graph.


Absolute luminance deviation (please keep in mind that this is normal for the actual primary positions as we want a linear presentation):

- Your display vs sRGB blue primary @D65 white: +32%

Actually it's +46% compared to the luminance of sRGB blue.

But yes, it does need to be higher luminance to account for our sensitivity to the longer wavelength :)

Eyesensitivity.png
 
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