Day-One DLC Files Appear on Mass Effect 3 Discs

CryingGod said:
Due to the shenanigans of the DLC on disk, I am 90% positive ME3 is the last Bioware game I'll purchase.
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But you have bought / will buy it? Yeah, that'll show 'em.

I'm the only person who can decide what a game is "worth" to me, and I absolutely did buy the ME3 DD edition, just like I bought the ME2 CE and all the DLC. ME1 and 2 are two of my all-time favourite games, so why wouldn't I?

I played the From Ashes mission last night, and you know what? It's not crucial to the game like some people want to make believe. Yes, it adds some back-story. Yes, it adds a character, and yes, the core game would still be entirely playable (and enjoyable) without it. So if you're dead-set against DLC, skip it. Skip the whole game for that matter, it makes no difference to me.
 
Litfod said:
But you have bought / will buy it? Yeah, that'll show 'em.

I'm the only person who can decide what a game is "worth" to me, and I absolutely did buy the ME3 DD edition, just like I bought the ME2 CE and all the DLC. ME1 and 2 are two of my all-time favourite games, so why wouldn't I?

I played the From Ashes mission last night, and you know what? It's not crucial to the game like some people want to make believe. Yes, it adds some back-story. Yes, it adds a character, and yes, the core game would still be entirely playable (and enjoyable) without it. So if you're dead-set against DLC, skip it. Skip the whole game for that matter, it makes no difference to me.
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I am skipping, and I'm happy about it. I'll buy it on the super cheap.... after I deal with several other games I own in my queue.
 
Litfod said:
But you have bought / will buy it? Yeah, that'll show 'em.

I'm the only person who can decide what a game is "worth" to me, and I absolutely did buy the ME3 DD edition, just like I bought the ME2 CE and all the DLC. ME1 and 2 are two of my all-time favourite games, so why wouldn't I?

I played the From Ashes mission last night, and you know what? It's not crucial to the game like some people want to make believe. Yes, it adds some back-story. Yes, it adds a character, and yes, the core game would still be entirely playable (and enjoyable) without it. So if you're dead-set against DLC, skip it. Skip the whole game for that matter, it makes no difference to me.
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Rationalize it all you like, Day 1 DLC is a slap in the face to customers.
 
Litfod said:
I played the From Ashes mission last night, and you know what? It's not crucial to the game like some people want to make believe. Yes, it adds some back-story. Yes, it adds a character, and yes, the core game would still be entirely playable (and enjoyable) without it. So if you're dead-set against DLC, skip it. Skip the whole game for that matter, it makes no difference to me.
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bullshit. finish the game then come back and tell us it would have been remotely the same without javik the prothean, he has crucial dialogue and presence that fills in the overall premise. that's the problem, if you skip the dlc you're skipping important parts of the game that should be a part of the main story. tbh if I had played without him the story would have been even more hollow and pointless than it already was, having that insight is really what made it barely tolerable.

people are overthinking this, it has nothing to do with when the planning and development took place or where they choose to store this data. the decision to ship with any version of any game revolves around the question of "how much can we remove and still make it playable", that's it. ALL of this is predetermined in some form or another, they kick around a certain amount of ideas at one point and that's it. those who think that they do all this extra work post production just because it sells well, you're dreaming. and those who think they have any sort of deadline limitations are just naive, if they haven't finished something they wanted to include, it either gets delayed or shipped broken.
 
It's very simple from my POV: I am not spending my money buying this game even though I want to play the game to finish the series. I am tired of supporting PC games that are priced like the scrub console games. I am tired of supporting companies that are blatantly trying to milk the fanbase for every penny. Sorry, I don't give a SHIT that "it's capitalism, deal with it". Fuck you. If I don't like something, me being in a capitalist society, I vote with my wallet and tell them to go fuck themselves. Jesus, and I thought Koticvision was bad and their CoD games. EA together with Biowhore are just as bad. I predicted this was going to happen eventually, and I hate predictability.

I'm not spending $70 for a game, it's bad enough I already got anal raped on that piece of shit SWTOR from EA/Biowhore, not going to give them another penny unless the game is discounted down to reasonable levels. I know it won't ever be on Steam because EA don't want to pony up the % to them, fine. I don't want to pony up money to EA/Biowhore. If they sold this game on Origin for $50 WITH the day one DLC, I would buy it in a heartbeat. But they aren't. So will wait for about 2-3 months when it goes on sale for 40% off somewhere, and then maybe buy it.

And I don't care about the political crap around it either. I don't CARE what it costs the devs to make the game, I don't CARE about this and that and such and such and such, I only CARE about getting a game at a reasonable price. $70 is WAY too much for SP game (I love MP, but the MP doesn't interest me in the slightest). And I, being part of a quasi socialist/capitalist society (if you think America is a pure capitalist society I would like to introduce you to corporate welfare that costed us 8 trillion dollars back in 2008-09), I refuse to open up my wallet to be raided and take it in the ass because "it's part of capitalism". Fuck you.
 
Plague_Injected said:
Former Bioware dev basically tells gamers to know their place.
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Makes a lot of sense actually. The only decision we have to make is whether any given game or DLC is worth our money. Either it is or it isn't, and the only person who can decide that is the individual customer. We have no business telling Bioware or anyone else how to run their company behind the scenes. We either buy their products they offer, or we don't. Regardless of how the game and DLC are packaged and developed, that's still the only decision we have to make. Either the game is good value for money, or it isn't. Either the DLC is good value for money, or it isn't.

All the griping about DLC is really pointless. Gamers have voted with their wallets and the result is: DLC is fine.

People who don't like where the industry is heading have two choices: Find a new hobby, or deal with it.

Telling game companies to make less money will never, ever work.
 
Lol @ people trying to rationalize Day 1 rape to their wallets.

You paid 60 bucks for what is supposed to be the full game. Did you get the full game? No. Pay up 10 more bucks for the missing storyline/plot related Day 1 DLC.

This shit is like Stockholm Syndrome and you guys are all captives and slaves to EA and Activisions DLC schemes.

Its beyond hilarious.
 
Entertainer said:
Forbes isn't happy about it either.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...iowares-mass-effect-3-day-one-dlc-from-ashes/
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That story confirms exactly what I was saying about Day 1 DLC and Day 1 launch prices being a tax on stupid people.

The backlash here is understandable and the lesson is clear: developers need to respect their fans by not assuming that they’re stupid. Ignoring the realities of the internet and social media is a bad idea.
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Stupid people bought this Day 1 DLC.
 
NKDietrich said:
People who don't like where the industry is heading have two choices: Find a new hobby, or deal with it.
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Or just look elsewhere. It's funny how many people bitch about Nintendo's lousy internet support. I on the other hand love it. I pay $50 for a Zelda/Mario game and get a 30-40 hour experience with no tacked on MP, no overpriced DLC, and feature-complete on launch.
 
drako said:
Or just look elsewhere. It's funny how many people bitch about Nintendo's lousy internet support. I on the other hand love it. I pay $50 for a Zelda/Mario game and get a 30-40 hour experience with no tacked on MP, no overpriced DLC, and feature-complete on launch.
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Or you could play handhelds like I do, I enjoy my Nintendo 3DS a lot, and before that, the Nintendo DS and PSP.


All games come feature complete and lack DLC.
 
Fail said:
Lol @ people trying to rationalize Day 1 rape to their wallets.

You paid 60 bucks for what is supposed to be the full game. Did you get the full game? No. Pay up 10 more bucks for the missing storyline/plot related Day 1 DLC.

This shit is like Stockholm Syndrome and you guys are all captives and slaves to EA and Activisions DLC schemes.

Its beyond hilarious.
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Mass Effect 3, without the DLC, provided me with a good 30 hours of excellent gameplay. That's 20 hours more than most $60 titles. Verdict: Good value for money.

The From Ashes DLC gives a mission with some interesting backstory on the Protheans, a companion who actually has interesting stuff to say, and excellent combat abilities. Worth $10? More like $5. Verdict: Could be worse.

You talk about rationalizing, but the truth is you're the one being irrational. Mass Effect 3, with or without the DLC, is easily in the top 5% of games in terms of value for money. It could be disputed a bit in either direction, and certainly it could pass the threshold of some peoples value-for-money meter since it's partially subjective, but it's not this over-the-top wallet rape you keep emotionally ranting about.

To listen to you, someone would have to be legally insane to buy Mass Effect 3, but the truth of the matter is that it isn't that cut and dried.
 
What it says to me straight up is that they had this content for the game, took it out, and are now charging for it.
 
The best part is that Christina Norman said:
There’s no point in releasing DLC a year after your game comes out when most people have already sold it back to Gamestop three times. So, that means getting it out early. That means day one DLC.
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So ..., how exactly do I resell an Origin-only PC game? I don't use Origin but can you transfer it to another customer?

NKDietrich said:
The From Ashes DLC gives a mission with some interesting backstory on the Protheans, a companion who actually has interesting stuff to say, and excellent combat abilities. Worth $10? More like $5. Verdict: Could be worse.
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I think the biggest complaint is that From Ashes was originally part of the game till they decided that they can jew another $10 our of players if they just make it into a DLC. Then they rationalized a Day 1 DLC with the line that no one wants a DLC a year later so it has to be Day 1.
 
Thuleman said:
The best part is that Christina Norman said:

So ..., how exactly do I resell an Origin-only PC game? I don't use Origin but can you transfer it to another customer?
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The bulk of the ME3 copies sold will be on console, so that's probably what Ms. Norman was talking about.
 
Thuleman said:
The best part is that Christina Norman said:

So ..., how exactly do I resell an Origin-only PC game? I don't use Origin but can you transfer it to another customer?


I think the biggest complaint is that From Ashes was originally part of the game till they decided that they can jew another $10 our of players if they just make it into a DLC. Then they rationalized a Day 1 DLC with the line that no one wants a DLC a year later so it has to be Day 1.
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I don't think that EA or Bioware has to rationalize Day 1 DLC, really, there IS no way you can plausibly rationalize Day 1 DLC when it is ALREADY IN THE GAME FILES . . . .
 
The problem with Ms. Norman's quote to me, and really the attitude of the industry in general is how they think of their customer base. These companies know that their customers average on the young side, and they want all of the advantages with none of the drawbacks of that. It doesn't work that way. On the one hand, they are beautifully taking advantage of the fact that many of their young customers have little concept of the value of hard earned money, and also have little self-control. Thus they can pull things like the day 1 DLC. However, the other consequences of the demographics is that young folks have more ability and less qualms about pirating games. They also do have a larger sense of self-entitlement and will raise a big stink over "small" things like cut content day 1 DLC and do things like 1-vote ratings hits (while most end up buying it regardless).

Companies couldn't get away with these kind of business practices in more adult focused industries. What if Mass Effect 3 was a car? You'd go to the dealer and find out that the new model of a car costs the same as last years model, except this time the default package doesn't come with a radio. The dealer tells you that you can buy the radio for the car for an additional $2000. It's not a big deal because the car is completely functional without the radio - it can get you where you need to go! Also, the radio didn't arrive at the dealership at the same time as the car, so you need to pay for it separately even though both are there now. You argue that you are getting less value than last years model and the dealer tells you that it is the same value because they added a tow hitch to the car. You tell the dealer that makes no sense... it's a car, why would it have a tow hitch!

No rational person would shop at that dealership after that. But the gamer audience is a younger crowd who, quite frankly, have little backbone when it comes to things like boycotts. The pubs know this and take advantage of it. So they need to stop complaining about the other "undesirable" qualities of their customers.
 
drako said:
What if Mass Effect 3 was a car?.
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Putting aside whether I agree or not, it's not really that great of an analogy. Cars are notorious for their equivalent of "DLC" actually, and they still sell, primarily to adults. Most cars have a huge list of "extras" that you can buy, or not buy, even though the car was designed from the beginning with those extras in mind.
 
Thuleman said:
The best part is that Christina Norman said:

So ..., how exactly do I resell an Origin-only PC game? I don't use Origin but can you transfer it to another customer?
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That comment shows a complete lack of confidence to me, and as such reinforces my decision not to buy ME3. If the developer doesn't think I'll hold on to the game for more than a couple of months, how good could it be? I still play Sim City 4 after ten years, and she's saying she doubts I'll be interested in ME3 for longer than a few months? Must not be worth playing then.
 
NKDietrich said:
Mass Effect 3, without the DLC, provided me with a good 30 hours of excellent gameplay. That's 20 hours more than most $60 titles. Verdict: Good value for money.
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You think 60 dollars for 10 hours of gameplay is reasonable value for money? Fuck me we live in a depressing world these days.

And where did you find this "gameplay" in Mass Effect 3? I was under the impression, after playing it for 6 hours, that it's one long barely-interactive movie cutscene titled "Hollywood Blockbuster Cliches -- The Last 20 Years".
 
NKDietrich said:
Putting aside whether I agree or not, it's not really that great of an analogy. Cars are notorious for their equivalent of "DLC" actually, and they still sell, primarily to adults. Most cars have a huge list of "extras" that you can buy, or not buy, even though the car was designed from the beginning with those extras in mind.
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Ahhh, but that is why I chose cars and that is why I chose radios. The two industries are surprisingly analogous is you look at it closely.

Indeed, cars can have accessories which they are in fact designed to accommodate. This really isn't any different than content you can buy in say an MMO or TF2's manconomy. But in this case, I am talking about base content, for which the buyer has an expectation to be complete, in fact not being complete. I have no expectation that if I buy the base model of a car that I will get a sunroof, but I do expect that it will have a functioning radio. Similarly, I have no expectation that by buying the base version of a game I will get "accessories" such as the dog, hoodie, and soundtrack that one gets if they buy the collector's edition of ME3. On the other hand, I do expect to get a content complete version of the singleplayer experience because that is what precedent has told me through years of buying games.

To argue that the Prothean is not integral to that campaign is like arguing that a radio is not integral to the base model of a car. Sure, the product may function as expected, but the experience has been degraded in a deliberate way in order to extract more cash out of the buyer, much as a shady dealer would do by removing the radio from an otherwise feature complete base model of a car. Such a dealer would not last long.
 
Spewn said:
If the developer doesn't think I'll hold on to the game for more than a couple of months, how good could it be? I still play Sim City 4 after ten years, and she's saying she doubts I'll be interested in ME3 for longer than a few months? Must not be worth playing then.
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Developers in fact don't want you holding on to games for more than a couple months. If you occupy your time with an older game the chances are lower you will buy as many new games. That's part of the motivation for killing mod support, aside from the obvious competition it presents to dev provided DLC.
 
Rizen said:
DLC is fully contained in the core game, changing one line of code unlocks it even if you do not have From Ashes installed.
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Already been posted, and incorrect. The character can be unlocked, his mission is a 600MB download.
 
NKDietrich said:
Already been posted, and incorrect. The character can be unlocked, his mission is a 600MB download.
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Thanks. My mistake. They did state that all of the content was developed after the core game, though - clearly at least the character was not.
 
Fail said:
I don't think that EA or Bioware has to rationalize Day 1 DLC, really, there IS no way you can plausibly rationalize Day 1 DLC when it is ALREADY IN THE GAME FILES . . . .
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You totally misunderstand the whole situation. This applies to all companies and any decision they make. They aren't the government or your communes leadership. It's a business. They can do whatever the fuck they want with it. They can legally sell the game with the guy standing in a black room and sell the content on 52040 DVDs strapped to packets of cereal. They could burn the HDDs containing the "extra" game data while rubbing peanut butter on each other and still not have to "rationalize" anything. Thats the way they want to do stuff, so they can do it.

You are no part of this process, have 0 invested in it. They don't have to answer to you. There is no law that states "when the game is launched all content created by this period must be included". It is not a charity or government handout scheme. You are "entitled" to 0 other than what was stated to be contained. Which is what you would receive.

You can pay for it or you can not, thats the limit of your decision making power. I don't buy ubisoft games if they contain stupid DRM, that is my decision. When they remove said restrictions then I purchase if I wish to. But you don't buy EA games for some weird unstated reason, so I guess you have no power whatsoever. :p
 
Plague_Injected said:
NKDietrich, WabeWalker would be so proud of you.

40% of Mass Effect 3 purchasers are stupid.
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I'm not sure who WabeWalker is, but thanks for the link. 40% buy-in on a day 1 DLC is pretty successful. Just goes to show that the people getting upset and threatening boycotts are pretty much threatening to hold their breath, because EA and BioWare give zero fucks. They are still making all the money they want, and the people complaining matter to the amount of zero.

And frankly, that's how a business should be run, especially one that makes entertainment products. Make what YOU want to make. Sell how YOU want to sell it. If that leads to success, you're doing it right.

Game development isn't a democratic process. The game developers are the ones fronting all the money and investing all the hours into making a game. They can do whatever the fuck they want and you have no say. Like DeathPrincess said, you can either buy it, or not.

But it seems to me EA and BioWare neither want nor need your money, so...
 
NKDietrich said:
Game development isn't a democratic process. The game developers are the ones fronting all the money and investing all the hours into making a game. They can do whatever the fuck they want and you have no say. Like DeathPrincess said, you can either buy it, or not.

But it seems to me EA and BioWare neither want nor need your money, so...
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Absolutely. As the consumer, you only directly have power over your own money.

Still, it's within everyone's right here to lament trends they don't like. The number of honest, reputable developers is dwindling.
 
drako said:
Absolutely. As the consumer, you only directly have power over your own money.

Still, it's within everyone's right here to lament trends they don't like. The number of honest, reputable developers is dwindling.
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Dwindling cause EA or Activision buys them up and then uses them up for all they are worth then closes them after sales die down.
 
NKDietrich said:
I'm not sure who WabeWalker is, but thanks for the link. 40% buy-in on a day 1 DLC is pretty successful. Just goes to show that the people getting upset and threatening boycotts are pretty much threatening to hold their breath, because EA and BioWare give zero fucks. They are still making all the money they want, and the people complaining matter to the amount of zero.

And frankly, that's how a business should be run, especially one that makes entertainment products. Make what YOU want to make. Sell how YOU want to sell it. If that leads to success, you're doing it right.

Game development isn't a democratic process. The game developers are the ones fronting all the money and investing all the hours into making a game. They can do whatever the fuck they want and you have no say. Like DeathPrincess said, you can either buy it, or not.

But it seems to me EA and BioWare neither want nor need your money, so...
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You confuse what can be done with what should be done. It's easy to do if you lack any kind of moral reasoning, or just reasoning in general.
 
Fail said:
Dwindling cause EA or Activision buys them up and then uses them up for all they are worth then closes them after sales die down.
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Your privately owned company cannot be purchased by an outside company unless you are willing to sell. Blame the developers who are looking to cash out of the business, or cash in to a bigger deal, not the company who happens to be the one who takes them up on the offer.
 
I will buy the GOTY edition when it is $20 or less.

Edit: I was going to buy it next week but this DLC thing really ticks me off.
 
darkstarcow said:
I will buy the GOTY edition when it is $20 or less.

Edit: I was going to buy it next week but this DLC thing really ticks me off.
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The people waiting for the ME2 Game of the Year edition are still waiting 2 years later.
 
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