Public image is a big thing for corporations, some pay big money to PR firms to spruce up their image. The bad publicity from this public outcry only drags EA further thru the mud and let's other publishers know this type of thing is not acceptable and frowned upon by it's core customers. It has nothing to do with capitalism or socialism, it's just passionate fans unhappy with the unscrupulous money grabs some publishers are trying hard to establish into a status quo and enough is enough. Movie studious are dumbfounded why bootlegging has become so commonplace suddenly, but refuse to blame themselves when the price of movie tickets has gone thru the roof lately and the average blockbuster is so nerfed in order to appeal to the largest audience possible that it ends up insulting it. Many casual gamers are clueless and if this outcry gets loud enough then maybe some will become informed on what is transpiring and boycott this kind of thing before it ruins our hobby like what has happened with the movie and music industry.
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Day-One DLC Files Appear on Mass Effect 3 Discs
- Thread starter piscian18
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TwistedAegis
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You're right, pushing back on Fail's blanket accusations is ridiculous and off-base.
You're right, pushing back on Fail's blanket accusations is ridiculous and off-base.
If that was actually what I had said, this would be a great post.
Shalafi
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Exactly man, as prices have gone up, and developers and publishers continue to dilute their products in order to tax the stupid among us, some less . . . scrupulous souls out there have turned to the criminal practice of piracy in order to get their hands on games and provide a no sale as a protest to the corporate greed.
EA doesn't care if Mass Effect 3 is a good game.
That is correct, EA does NOT care if Mass Effect 3 is a good game .
EA only cares if you will buy into their marketing plan and the hype, and not only scoop up Mass Effect 3, but buy the DLC as well.
Whether or not Mass Effect 3 has a story that improves on the first or second, or both, or whether the voice acting is better, or any features you liked, are better or omitted, all that is secondary. As long as the game is released by the deadline, that's all that matters, and the marketing plan is put in place to take advantage of the release date, and the hype sells the game, the game doesn't sell itself.
Hell, I liked it back in the late 90's when Squaresoft released Final Fantasy 7 in Japan. Wanna know what the cover looked like? It had nothing glitzy, no huge promotional art. It was perfectly clean! Squaresoft knew the game would sell itself.
www.uffsite.net/ff7/images/boxart/ja_front.jpg
You will buy their game, because it has the words Mass Effect in it, and you're a fan of the first and second game.
It's brand loyalty at it's finest. You're not buying a game on the merits of whether the 3rd installation in the series is a good game or not, you're buying it because you're an impatient customer who has to have it now, instead of delaying your gratification buying the game at less than a third of the Day 1 price, which includes the DLC released for it . . .
Again, franchise is a word synonymous with the word exploitation.
Day 1 DLC and Day 1 purchases are a tax on stupid people.
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piscian18
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http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Downloadable_Content
Look at Mass effect Vs mass effect 2 and you can already see where 3 is going. Also, I'm gonna come right out and say it. When you have promotional codes and Tie-in's with Dr. Pepper you're not making a game any more you're making a product. You gain the legitimacy of being associated with a Soda can pretending to be a Doctor.
Look at Mass effect Vs mass effect 2 and you can already see where 3 is going. Also, I'm gonna come right out and say it. When you have promotional codes and Tie-in's with Dr. Pepper you're not making a game any more you're making a product. You gain the legitimacy of being associated with a Soda can pretending to be a Doctor.
Plague_Injected
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Very fucking clear that Bioware are a bunch of lying pricks.
That's the real issue here as I see it.
That's the real issue here as I see it.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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I rarely buy any DLC, but the DLC I've purchased has generally been well worth it. I would never buy this particular day 1 DLC, or any DLC that was internal to the original campaign. I prefer "expansion" style DLC, like they did with New Vegas. If it is part of the main story, I feel it should already be in it.
I got some of the ME2 DLC from some Bioware points I was gifted, but never went back to play them. It's rare when I go back to beat a game I've finished more than once already just to experience a few hours of extra content, unless we are talking GOTY material.
I got some of the ME2 DLC from some Bioware points I was gifted, but never went back to play them. It's rare when I go back to beat a game I've finished more than once already just to experience a few hours of extra content, unless we are talking GOTY material.
It's a real "you vs. the World" mindset you have over there, isn't it? No way anyone else could be thinking the same way as you, not even the OP?
Maplehamwich
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Exactly. And if sales don't do well, companies adjust. Like I said, it's sad to me that people are willing to pay as much as they are for this stuff.
TwistedAegis
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Value is subjective; I'm not sure why it should make anyone "sad" or cause anyone else to think people buying this are sheeple. I play through the ME games multiple times; thus even a 2 hour DLC for $10 is likely to give me 4-8 hours of enjoyment - well worth $10 for me. Plus, I like supporting a developer that makes good games, which I feel the ME series has been the best series I have played.
This is just the reality of it. I would just advise people to save themselves the energy and rage ranting about it, lower your blood pressure and just enjoy what's available.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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I think half of the issue is that Bioware was a bit dishonest here about the DLC development schedule. The other half being that they are charging extra for what seems to be a fairly integral bit of lore for the universe. Were it just standard DLC, we would be seeing a far more reasonable response.
Another factor is that some of the fanbase grew up with Bioware games; obviously Bioware has had an increasingly different focus in the past few years.
piscian18
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WIP.
fattypants
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Torrent sites have a 500kb unlocker for the on-disc DLC on PC. MIght as well use it since the content is on the disc or in the game files anyway.
TheReproducer
Weaksauce
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Problem with the DLC is that, with ME2 for example, they still haven't released a Gold edition with the game and all DLC included. So although I have ME2 in my acc, to play all the DLC I need to spend like an extra 30 quid or more... absolute bollocks.
This is a pretty good discussion, but at the end of the day the issue is that even people in this thread went out and bought ME3 and probably even the Day 1 DLC even though they are upset about the pricing. They are just not upset enough to not open their wallet.
Me? I am waiting for the $20 ME3 on Steam, and if it never arrives then I will just have to spend my time on other games.
Me? I am waiting for the $20 ME3 on Steam, and if it never arrives then I will just have to spend my time on other games.
Yup. I see people saying the same thing about AssCreed and Ubisoft "Oh fuck Ubisoft and their DRM, never buying anything from them" and then "Oh as much as I hate Ubisoft's DRM I just have to have the new AssCreed game, so I'm buying it." Prioritize however you want I guess, but understand that when you buy a game from Ubisoft or EA they interpret that as a "thumbs up" to all the choices they made with that game. They don't care if you liked it enough to spend money but then complain on the forums; Unless you find a way to force them into a refund, all they care about is being able to get you to buy the game. Complain 'til the cows come home, they don't care as long as you spend your money first.
If you don't like $10 DLC that shouldn't even cost $1, if you don't like overly restrictive DRM, the ONLY way you can let the developers/publishers know this in a meaningful way is to not buy it.
fattypants
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Totally feel the same way.
I can live without any game. I can live without the whole game industry. I'll read, I'll write, I'll go play basketball, or even just screw around on the internet. If someone wants to shake me down for extra money, screw 'em; they're not the only thing in my life.
There are too many people who want everything now and/or go "well, I can afford this so I don't care". They don't even realize that they're encouraging developers and publishers to keep experimenting with how much they can get away with.
The developers that get my money are the ones who give the biggest bang for the buck.
Shalafi
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You sound like the type of person who will be a millionaire one day through frugality, investing your money first, living a scaled down lifestyle in exchange for a good life in your later years thanks to your investment.
I.E. you're not the target audience for game developers like EA or Activision.
They want the impulsive Little Johnnies (immature impulsive adult and actual kids) to buy their games.
That's not really a fair assumption, though I understand what you are getting at.
I was all ready to preorder ME3 but then they dropped the day 1 DLC and a $60 game became a $70 game. Now instead of spending $60 on it I'm going to wait until I can get the full game, including the cut DLC content, for say $30. I love the series and I want to see how it ends, but I'm not going to support shoddy business practices.
Shalafi
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That's how I wish more people would do it.
I have nothing against people buying ME3, I really don't. Fans of the series should go out and buy the game.
However, buy it at a price that reflects it's true worth.
It certainly is not worth $70.
omfg thank you.
edit: I am a huge fan of Mass Effect universe. I bought the last two games, but I didn't buy ME3. I will never buy another Bioware product, nor will I ever buy another EA product. These are not idle threats from a two decade gamer who has seen the massive go under and will be perfectly happy to sit by while it happens once again. I don't think too many people will mourn the loss of Bioware or EA, in the end. We had some good times, but it's turned into an incredibly abusive relationship that personally I decided to stop a long time ago (ME2 DLC and DAO multiple "Complete" editions did it for me). Similar to Ubisoft, whom I've been boycotting for... 4 years. For crimes too numerous to mention. Put your money where your mouth is people. Together we are strong.
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DeathPrincess
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You know this was probably all biowares fault. I know people like to blame the big evil people, but seriously.
ME3 isn't on steam, like HL2 isn't on origin, so this is all irrelevant. I'm not even sure what your argument is or is against. It's either:
"I don't buy from this company because they don't pay another company fees to sell stuff"
So you don't buy from amazon as they don't pay sales tax?
"This business, funded by money does things to make money"
Welcome to the western world?
ME3 isn't on steam, like HL2 isn't on origin, so this is all irrelevant. I'm not even sure what your argument is or is against. It's either:
"I don't buy from this company because they don't pay another company fees to sell stuff"
So you don't buy from amazon as they don't pay sales tax?
"This business, funded by money does things to make money"
Welcome to the western world?
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Breath_of_the_Dying
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I hardly buy games day 1. I usually wait for them to go cheaper. But the reason I wait is because my backlog of games is so huge that I'd waste money on games I wont get around to amytime soon. If somehow I had every game I own and wanted to play completed, I'd buy more games day 1 at full price.
To many people, getting games day 1 is totally worth it. There's nothing wrong with that, and they are by no means idiots for paying that much. Companies will charge for whatever maximizes their profits, and even if they charge $100 for it, it wouldn't be unethical. Less people would buy it and they wouldnt make as much money, so they wouldnt do that. However much money they spend on marketing vs development isnt an ethical issue either. It's their money and their investment, they can spend however much they want on whatever they want.
The unfortunate part for us games is that their lies about DLC, as much as we hate it, isnt very unethical in the grand scheme of things. Its not like they lied about building the game on the backs of child sweat shops in Asia or anything. If they lied about what content we paid for, then there's serious ethical and legal issues there.
Not that I like what they're doing, but this is business as usual. Any industry will have companies using methodologies we hate to maximize profits.
To many people, getting games day 1 is totally worth it. There's nothing wrong with that, and they are by no means idiots for paying that much. Companies will charge for whatever maximizes their profits, and even if they charge $100 for it, it wouldn't be unethical. Less people would buy it and they wouldnt make as much money, so they wouldnt do that. However much money they spend on marketing vs development isnt an ethical issue either. It's their money and their investment, they can spend however much they want on whatever they want.
The unfortunate part for us games is that their lies about DLC, as much as we hate it, isnt very unethical in the grand scheme of things. Its not like they lied about building the game on the backs of child sweat shops in Asia or anything. If they lied about what content we paid for, then there's serious ethical and legal issues there.
Not that I like what they're doing, but this is business as usual. Any industry will have companies using methodologies we hate to maximize profits.
It sure is unethical, in fact its pure madness to claim it isn't. They know exactly what the outcry is about and are doing everything in their power to deflect the truth and attempt to maintain that this is the status quo. We reject it. Some of us, anyway. You fools that accept this kind of thing as business as usual should have a lot to look forward to, such as Mass Effect : Chronicles, Mass Effect : Redemption, and Mass Effect IV : The Voyage Home Part 2, Episode VII, Coffee with Liara DLC not included -- AND NOW FEATURING ONE BUTTON INTERFACE!
FFS ME3 wasn't that far off.
FFS ME3 wasn't that far off.
You know this was probably all biowares fault. I know people like to blame the big evil people, but seriously.
ME3 isn't on steam, like HL2 isn't on origin, so this is all irrelevant. I'm not even sure what your argument is or is against. It's either:
"I don't buy from this company because they don't pay another company fees to sell stuff"
So you don't buy from amazon as they don't pay sales tax?
"This business, funded by money does things to make money"
Welcome to the western world?
It's neither, he just pounces on any opportunity to opine and pontificate on Origin. However tenuously related or contrived it may be.
Doesn't mean he is wrong.
I mean honestly I don't know why were still having these debates. We've been discussing this stuff to death for almost 3 years now and it is only getting worse. The same people 3 years ago who were upset with this are still upset with it and the same people who don't mind throwing their money away on whatever they wish still don't mind throwing their money away on whatever they wish.
Companies such as EA, Ubisoft, and Activision are going to do whatever they can to make money via our expense. If people wish to support their business models so beit, but in 5 years we'll still be having this very same debate. I'm just glad my gaming days are almost over. Games are becoming bored, trite, rehashes of older titles with just fancier graphics. My Steam backlog is still well over 30 games and the last year or two I've bought more indie titles than I have "mainstream AAA" titles.
For many PC gaming veterans the big mainstream titles suck anyways. Stories are crap, plot and pacing are forced, and the value of style over substance is greater than it has never been before. We've seen good story telling in games, we've seen well executed plots, and very few games today can say they value those points over pretty graphics. If people find this enjoyable then so be it; however, don't be surprised when you get the "when I was growing up games were such and such, and studios gave a damn about gamers stories."
DooKey
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I'll buy the GOTY version when it hits $19.99 by Christmas or next spring.
piscian18
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Having been in the argument for a while now. I ultimately side with EA in that it's their right to have origin, but I think they're going about it in the most pigheaded way possible. They've done nothing to make me to do anything other than hide Origin on my desktop and link everything to steam. No sales, no community initiatives, nothing. People say gamers just bitch but DoubleFine proved that to be completely false. EA as a whole loves gaming. They reach out and help people like Tim schafer and A. Mcgee. They just need to be more cohesive about it. In the Indie article I linked most devs that are leaving EA and Activision just feel like the corporation culture has taken over and its not fun to make games anymore.
On topic, I think we should look at the plus side of this. Everyone whos leaving is going to go out and make great games that might not have been feasible under the big publisher blanket. We may not see eye to eye with Bioware anymore, but with any luck we can expect great changes in and out to come from the light being shown on this issue.
Fail has ZERO fucking credibility when it comes to this argument. He plays the shit out of League of Legends...a game under the disguise of F2P is the most money driven pay to win game out there...release champion who is broke as fuck...everyone pays real money for it...then when the other people have saved enough a week later to unlock nerf..rinse repeat.
Just stop talking about economics...you have no clue...if you don't think the gaming market will reject things when they are tired of it...Guitar Hero would like to have a word with you.
Oh and LOL at the poors on this thread... $60 for a 60 hour or so game is nothing....thats $1 an hour of entertainment....please point me to a cheaper alternative.
Oh and who the fuck still plays these single player interactive movies...
Just stop talking about economics...you have no clue...if you don't think the gaming market will reject things when they are tired of it...Guitar Hero would like to have a word with you.
Oh and LOL at the poors on this thread... $60 for a 60 hour or so game is nothing....thats $1 an hour of entertainment....please point me to a cheaper alternative.
Oh and who the fuck still plays these single player interactive movies...
Who still plays whiny achievement fest multiplayer slogs? The people who like them. The people who don't want to deal with folks like you who think they can prove a point by throwing in as many fucks as possible into a sentence, they play these "singleplayer interactive movies."
LstBrunnenG
Supreme [H]ardness
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I suppose there's no such thing as unfinished content anymore? Since developers ALWAYS scrap ALL the code and assets from missions or settings or characters that get cut, right? There's never orphaned code or assets that never appear in the game. People have never discovered these things poking around in game files before.
What if the squad member was done when the game was ready to go gold, but the missions weren't? Bioware has 3 choices:
1. Push the release back AGAIN.
2. Cut the content, release later as DLC.
3. Cut the content, never release.
Also, there's the fact that the installation of From Ashes was a fairly sizeable download. Bandwidth is money, so you'd think that if EA could just activate existing files on the disc, they would. Instead several hundred megabytes got downloaded when I installed the DLC (very slowly I might add, screw you Origin). Is anyone here seriously suggesting that they sent me a file full of zeroes or redundant information just because they were afraid of a backlash?
I'm not saying this because I think that EA is some kind of paragon of game publishing. There some lame things happening in gaming lately, and EA isn't the only one doing it. DX:HR, a game which everyone here loves and is considered as a paragon of PC gaming by many here, included all the retailer-exclusive DLCs on the disc. I know this because someone released a dev menu that, among other things, lets you equip all the exclusive weapons. This is content proven to be already installed on your computer but only unlocks if Eidos says it's okay. So when Eidos does it, where is the outrage? Yet there's the slightest hint that EA has done it, and everyone is grabbing their pitchforks.
I think there's no reason for Bioware to lie. They say it was worked on between RTM and launch day, and I see no evidence to suggest that they are lying. If EA is as evil as everyone thinks they are, they'd just come out and admit it, reactions be damned. They've made their money. What do they care?
What if the squad member was done when the game was ready to go gold, but the missions weren't? Bioware has 3 choices:
1. Push the release back AGAIN.
2. Cut the content, release later as DLC.
3. Cut the content, never release.
Also, there's the fact that the installation of From Ashes was a fairly sizeable download. Bandwidth is money, so you'd think that if EA could just activate existing files on the disc, they would. Instead several hundred megabytes got downloaded when I installed the DLC (very slowly I might add, screw you Origin). Is anyone here seriously suggesting that they sent me a file full of zeroes or redundant information just because they were afraid of a backlash?
I'm not saying this because I think that EA is some kind of paragon of game publishing. There some lame things happening in gaming lately, and EA isn't the only one doing it. DX:HR, a game which everyone here loves and is considered as a paragon of PC gaming by many here, included all the retailer-exclusive DLCs on the disc. I know this because someone released a dev menu that, among other things, lets you equip all the exclusive weapons. This is content proven to be already installed on your computer but only unlocks if Eidos says it's okay. So when Eidos does it, where is the outrage? Yet there's the slightest hint that EA has done it, and everyone is grabbing their pitchforks.
I think there's no reason for Bioware to lie. They say it was worked on between RTM and launch day, and I see no evidence to suggest that they are lying. If EA is as evil as everyone thinks they are, they'd just come out and admit it, reactions be damned. They've made their money. What do they care?
First off, I agree with that it is likely that not all of the content was done by the time the game went off to print. I believe that. On the other hand, the amount of content sounds very paltry, while the significance of it is large to the lore. I do believe it was consciously decided to leave this bit out knowing people would need to buy it if they cared at all about the story and then they could make a quick $10 on release day by putting out this rather mandatory yet skimpy content addon. Not to mention the fact that they couldn't get this bit of the SP done but they added multiplayer which, whether it is good or not, nobody really asked for.
Also, I can't speak for others, but the reason I don't care about the DE:HR thing is because it wasn't story/mission content. It was weapons and stuff like that.. honestly couldn't care less about that. Bioware could make all of the weapon day 1 DLC they wanted and it wouldn't bother me... but the loss of important story details is very annoying. I'm certainly not boycotting the game, but I am going to wait for it to drop in price because I just don't like the way that BW is being run in general right now.
RealityCrunch
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Intriguing.
Shalafi
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EA and Bioware are the modern day Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves. They steal from the stupid people who pay 60 dollars for what is ostensibly the full game and leave out important pieces of the game, which were stripped to be sold as DLC.
I find it stupid and abhorrent that people are willing to act like Pavlov's dogs at the thought of getting a game on Day 1 that they are willing to pay FULL price for an incomplete game. How does that make any kind of sense?
Basically you are paying 60 bucks for EA and Bioware to deliver a crotch shot to you and steal your money, hard earned on your part or otherwise.
I find it stupid and abhorrent that people are willing to act like Pavlov's dogs at the thought of getting a game on Day 1 that they are willing to pay FULL price for an incomplete game. How does that make any kind of sense?
Basically you are paying 60 bucks for EA and Bioware to deliver a crotch shot to you and steal your money, hard earned on your part or otherwise.
Since I brought up the "Let me know when it hits $20 on Steam" issue. It's not really about Steam vs. Origin, it's about that Valve/Steam has a multi-year history of offering quality games at deep discounts. Does Origin have such a track record? I don't know since I don't use it, but I haven't heard anything to that effect.
Valve has a loyal customer in me because from where I am looking their are treating me right which includes offering AAA titles at $20, $10, and even $5 at some point within a couple years of release.
I loved ME1 and ME2 and I will buy ME3 when it arrives at $20 or less. I'll probably look for it at the Walmart bargain bin since there seems to be a real advantage in buying the physical disc over the DD version.
Valve has a loyal customer in me because from where I am looking their are treating me right which includes offering AAA titles at $20, $10, and even $5 at some point within a couple years of release.
I loved ME1 and ME2 and I will buy ME3 when it arrives at $20 or less. I'll probably look for it at the Walmart bargain bin since there seems to be a real advantage in buying the physical disc over the DD version.