Counter Strike: Global Offensive

Zarathustra[H];1037632462 said:
I usually don't put much faith in what the "competitive crowd" say. Most of them - while great CS players - don't seem to be the technical type, and as such don't know much about computers.

I still remember when I updated my old servers to a new CS version and it included a few new maps. A bunch of the top players on our server who were on pretty well ranked CAL teams started complaining about server lag.

I didn't experience any server lag myself, but I spend several days trouble shooting to try to figure out why they were experiencing lag.

Turns out they just had really sucky video cards, and they were calling their frame-rate drops on the new higher polygon maps "lag".

So, while I have a great amount of respect for the skills of top CS players, quite frankly, I don't think most of them know their hitboxes and netcode from their proverbial assholes.

Well that's why they are top players. It's the same analogy with drivers. They know nothing about mechanics nor do they care. All they need to concentrate on is driving faster and pushing the vehicle to it's limit. Something the mechanic can't do.
 
Well that's why they are top players. It's the same analogy with drivers. They know nothing about mechanics nor do they care. All they need to concentrate on is driving faster and pushing the vehicle to it's limit. Something the mechanic can't do.

I don't think what he said has much merit anyways. I played in CAL-i and there were plenty of people with computer know-how, building their own shuttles and such. Overclocked ti4200s and XP 2500+'s were everywhere.

A bunch of "well ranked CAL players" doesn't mean anything because they could've been ranked in CAL-o.

Of course there were a lot of idiots, but a lot of intelligent people too. Most of the stuff we know about the netcode, hitboxes and the weird engine quirks trickled down from the top players. You never saw random pubbers tweaking their extrapolation in 1.5.
 
That's too bad for the console players.

If they do it right it wont be to bad. Console has auto aim and no recoil, PC has recoil and no auto aim. Still advantage to PC but not as much.

I like it because all of my local friends play console. Now i can finally play with them.

I don't think what he said has much merit anyways. I played in CAL-i and there were plenty of people with computer know-how, building their own shuttles and such. Overclocked ti4200s and XP 2500+'s were everywhere.

A bunch of "well ranked CAL players" doesn't mean anything because they could've been ranked in CAL-o.

Of course there were a lot of idiots, but a lot of intelligent people too. Most of the stuff we know about the netcode, hitboxes and the weird engine quirks trickled down from the top players. You never saw random pubbers tweaking their extrapolation in 1.5.
Exactly
 
If they do it right it wont be to bad. Console has auto aim and no recoil, PC has recoil and no auto aim. Still advantage to PC but not as much.

I like it because all of my local friends play console. Now i can finally play with them.


Exactly

I would refuse to play against a console players uniles auto aim can be forced off, and recoil can be forced on in server configs. Otherwise I'd ahve to try to script somehow to not let console players on the server.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037655969 said:
I would refuse to play against a console players uniles auto aim can be forced off, and recoil can be forced on in server configs. Otherwise I'd ahve to try to script somehow to not let console players on the server.

K, Doesnt matter to me as i know i can still aim better, shoot better, and play better than them.
 
The consoles need auto-aim, but I think they should have recoil. No recoil is stupid.
 
Because Console having No auto aim with recoil with a controller is an equal playing field to PCs with no auto aim and recoil with mouse and keyboard right?

No, but I believe his point is that neither is auto aim + no recoil.

You could argue that it's closer to equal, and I'd agree, but the fact is it will never be equal and that's why the two haven't been mixed up to this point.



K, Doesnt matter to me as i know i can still aim better, shoot better, and play better than them.

No you don't. You'd have to know exactly how auto aim is implemented to know that. Can you aim better and shoot better than someone with an aimbot?
 
The consoles need auto-aim, but I think they should have recoil. No recoil is stupid.

If they do that, they run into a dilemma. Should the auto aim help compensate for recoil or not? :p

IMHO, what they should do is add code to the engine to recognize a mouse and keyboard plugged into the consoles USB ports, and the ability to bind them just like in the source engine on the PC.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037656109 said:
IMHO, what they should do is add code to the engine to recognize a mouse and keyboard plugged into the consoles USB ports, and the ability to bind them just like in the source engine on the PC.

now we're getting somewhere!!!
 
No, but I believe his point is that neither is auto aim + no recoil.

You could argue that it's closer to equal, and I'd agree, but the fact is it will never be equal and that's why the two haven't been mixed up to this point.

Thats the point i was making.


No you don't. You'd have to know exactly how auto aim is implemented to know that. Can you aim better and shoot better than someone with an aimbot?

Yes i do, Ill be the first person to show you. Someone with a controller will never be able to do things as fast as a keyboard and mouse.

Aim Assist != aimbot. Way to be overdramatic.
 
Thats the point i was making.

What's the point you were making? That it's closer to an equal playing field? I believe everyone acknowledges that point, but still doesn't want to see it because its still NOT an equal playing field. Any argument for that?

Yes i do, Ill be the first person to show you. Someone with a controller will never be able to do things as fast as a keyboard and mouse.

Aim Assist != aimbot. Way to be overdramatic.

It's a very cut down version of aimbot, but the amount that they cut it down is completely up to them, and therefore you do NOT know that you can out aim someone with it. If you insist that you can without knowing the implementation details, I'll just assume you're clueless.

The point I'm trying to make by saying this is the ability for console players to be competitive is dependent on how Valve tunes the auto aim. I'd rather not have a competitive environment based on something like that.
 
Can you aim better and shoot better than someone with an aimbot?

Yes. I have killed countless numbers of aim botters on CS. :) Granted they killed me more, but I have still aimed and shot better than an aimbotter, then i proceeded to "tbag the douche"
 
K, Doesnt matter to me as i know i can still aim better, shoot better, and play better than them.

Autoaim (it's more like aim attraction, not an aimbot) is easily manageable but I think you're underestimating the effect of removing recoil. I'll gladly use a trackball, WACOM tablet or Lenovo nub if you give me an AK that fires like an LG.
 
No you don't. You'd have to know exactly how auto aim is implemented to know that. Can you aim better and shoot better than someone with an aimbot?
Often times, yes, especially when reaction times and walls are involved. But like I said, the recoil is a bigger issue. Even the best aimbots still have to adjust for recoil, which is part of why they're still killable.
 
Autoaim (it's more like aim attraction, not an aimbot) is easily manageable but I think you're underestimating the effect of removing recoil. I'll gladly use a trackball, WACOM tablet or Lenovo nub if you give me an AK that fires like an LG.

I very well could be, i have thought about it and it would be neat if they implemented how GTA4 moves to each person by hitting L1 or R1 on a PS3 controller but you still have to use your analog stick to aim. With recoil added to the mix they would have to learn to control it using the analog stick. Hmm.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037637113 said:
I like most of the gameplay changes. agreed with the nades though. There must be some way to fix nade issues without having them go through players.

Not sure I like the map changes. They seem to want to remove a lot of the immersive elements of the game. Car models, and stuff like that i uneven shapes and forms all add to the experience. A CS with just boxes, and just boxes of a certain height (so you can't see heads?) would be awfully boring.

I'd rather see them go the other way. Increase polygon count, make environments more complex and natural, and yes, let there be little nooks and crannies for campers to hide in. it's not my preferred strategy, but without them, the game is not as real.

I don't want to see CS:S become as dull and simplistic as 1.6

Here would be my perfect CS:S update:
- All gameplay updates from that article, except nades going through player models
- Complete elimination of bunny hopping. (maybe force a half a second to a second delay between jumps or something like that)
- Complete remake of all maps and models to a modern polygon count and graphics level, including items that add more texture, like burning cars, rusty bulldozers, etc. Essentially, make the environments feel more alive.

I don't really care what impact this would have on the competitive crowd. I just want to be able to hop in on a pub, play my favorite game and have fun. any change should have a focus on removing some bugs and bringing some graphical improvements.

As with any game, the focus should be on fun. If its not fun, then what's the point? I really don't care if it's a good tool for some sort of lame video game competition or not.

As I've said all along CS was at its best before the competitive crowd got involved. Back when it was a project for people to just play on their free time and have fun. I ran a popular pub for about 3 years during the height of CAL, and even then I found the competitive players a nuisance. With their trying to arrange scrim's and recruiting on our server. It got so annoying that I eventually started banning people for recruiting.

CS is best when it belongs to the pubbers. Any game is that, a game. It is not serious. it is a fun distraction from every day life. Something you do after work when you don't want to deal with anything or anyone else. Taking it, and trying to make it serious, and building leagues, and competitions really just ruins it.

Actually, I just thought of another very important fix that really should be in any future version of CS.

In addition to doing more to eliminate the bunnyhopping exploit, they should do whatever they can to get rid of quick switching.

I would love to see the "l337 clanb0i" try to play the game the way it was intended instead of resorting to all these scripted exploits.
 
Tried looking up quick switching because I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't played in quite awhile and I was never competitive. The only thing I can find is a script used to switch from the awp instantly after firing, so that if you go back to the awp it will be reloaded faster than if you let the awp reload animation play out. If that's what you're talking about, I'd definitely want it removed too, though I have no idea why you think the competitive community (that's how I translate "l337 clanb0i") will be significantly worse at the game because of that.

I'd also like to see bunny hopping removed.

I do hope they give the maps enough interesting details so that they don't look like bland arenas. I hope the game looks great. I do think they should value the opinions of the competitive community. Hopefully they'll be able to keep both sides happy.
 
Tried looking up quick switching because I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't played in quite awhile and I was never competitive. The only thing I can find is a script used to switch from the awp instantly after firing, so that if you go back to the awp it will be reloaded faster than if you let the awp reload animation play out. If that's what you're talking about, I'd definitely want it removed too, though I have no idea why you think the competitive community (that's how I translate "l337 clanb0i") will be significantly worse at the game because of that.

That's exactly what it is, the most used combo was always AWP/Deagle, IIRC you could do it with a scout also. Not nearly as well though. If people were good, well used to doing it I guess, quick switching with last weapon used key and switching back.
 
Tried looking up quick switching because I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't played in quite awhile and I was never competitive. The only thing I can find is a script used to switch from the awp instantly after firing, so that if you go back to the awp it will be reloaded faster than if you let the awp reload animation play out. If that's what you're talking about, I'd definitely want it removed too, though I have no idea why you think the competitive community (that's how I translate "l337 clanb0i") will be significantly worse at the game because of that.

Completely wrong. People did that to unscope after they shot, otherwise you would scope back in after every shot. It actually made you fire slower.
 
This thread has went from a decent discussion to shit. Its just like any thread on the steam forums.

/unsubscribed.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037658595 said:
Actually, I just thought of another very important fix that really should be in any future version of CS.

In addition to doing more to eliminate the bunnyhopping exploit, they should do whatever they can to get rid of quick switching.

I would love to see the "l337 clanb0i" try to play the game the way it was intended instead of resorting to all these scripted exploits.

Oh my god, you're fucking killer_koala.

You're the reason 1.6 and CSS have become piles of shit. Please play BF3, instead.

EDIT: There was never any script to switch between awp and deagle faster. People just spammed slot 1 and slot 2 or last weapon. There was an animation bug so that it looked like it happened quicker, but the shot speed was the exact same as if you never switched weapons at all. Killer_koala went on a crusade on Steam forums to get this "exploit" changed and Valve, being the ESPORTS loving company that they are, listened to the terrible player and added in a further delay. There was never any exploit, it was just an animation glitch.

I realize this is not the type of forum where a discussion on how to balance games will end well, but seriously, don't balance games for terrible players. Especially when Valve is finally catering to competitive players with a 5v5 mode. I don't see how you can complain about games being dumbed down for consolers when PC gamers still make up a huge % of casual gamers.
 
Last edited:
Oh my god, you're fucking killer_koala.

You're the reason 1.6 and CSS have become piles of shit. Please play BF3, instead.

EDIT: There was never any script to switch between awp and deagle faster. People just spammed slot 1 and slot 2 or last weapon. There was an animation bug so that it looked like it happened quicker, but the shot speed was the exact same as if you never switched weapons at all. Killer_koala went on a crusade on Steam forums to get this "exploit" changed and Valve, being the ESPORTS loving company that they are, listened to the terrible player and added in a further delay. There was never any exploit, it was just an animation glitch.

I realize this is not the type of forum where a discussion on how to balance games will end well, but seriously, don't balance games for terrible players. Especially when Valve is finally catering to competitive players with a 5v5 mode. I don't see how you can complain about games being dumbed down for consolers when PC gamers still make up a huge % of casual gamers.

qft,

The only time I remember quickswitching back and forth made a difference was a loooong time ago in 1.4-earlier 1.5 cs, which was fixed loooooooong ago. Since then its only use has been to unscope after each shot, and/or habit. (im guilty of habit)

edit: sole reason I stopped playing was when silent running/crouch running whatever you want to call it was found out, pretty much was the final nail in the coffin for me.

edit2: Also, source blows :p had to put that out there. whoever said clans 'recruiting' and/or arranging scrims on their server... haha, I guarentee you those 'teams' were pubstars. league players dont go into pugs looking for scrims or to recruit, thats bottom of the barrel players who hardly deserve to be called a clan.
zara, where you find fun in pubs, many others find their fun being competetive. Im a competetive person, so the fun in the game was to play in leagues. pubs were extremely boring to me, but what made CS so great is its customizability and tweaking available on the server side, it catered to both crowds, and to remove one or the other would be stupid.[/
 
Last edited:
Completely wrong. People did that to unscope after they shot, otherwise you would scope back in after every shot. It actually made you fire slower.

Ya, I know about switching to stop the rescope, but he was talking about scripts and something that gave people a significant advantage. I still don't think he was talking about preventing rescoping, not that it really matters.
 
Oh my god, you're fucking killer_koala.

You're the reason 1.6 and CSS have become piles of shit. Please play BF3, instead.

EDIT: There was never any script to switch between awp and deagle faster. People just spammed slot 1 and slot 2 or last weapon. There was an animation bug so that it looked like it happened quicker, but the shot speed was the exact same as if you never switched weapons at all. Killer_koala went on a crusade on Steam forums to get this "exploit" changed and Valve, being the ESPORTS loving company that they are, listened to the terrible player and added in a further delay. There was never any exploit, it was just an animation glitch.

I realize this is not the type of forum where a discussion on how to balance games will end well, but seriously, don't balance games for terrible players. Especially when Valve is finally catering to competitive players with a 5v5 mode. I don't see how you can complain about games being dumbed down for consolers when PC gamers still make up a huge % of casual gamers.

...and by automatically kicking you out to deagle it gives you a huge advantage...

Here is how I would solve the problem.

Code the engine such that after freezetime ends until the end of the round only key binds that issue a single command are accepted from clients. This would completely remove any scripting during the round and would be a huge improvement to the game play.
 
Ya, I know about switching to stop the rescope, but he was talking about scripts and something that gave people a significant advantage. I still don't think he was talking about preventing rescoping, not that it really matters.

Then just copy and paste the same script and get the same "advantage" they have? I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make you shoot faster than never has.
 
I want the vehicles from 1.5 and 1.6 back. There was the APC in cs_seige and also there were some beta maps with buggy jeeps. So much fun.
 
I think there are a few people here who underestimate how good some console gamers are with gamepads...
 
Then just copy and paste the same script and get the same "advantage" they have? I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make you shoot faster than never has.

Don't argue with me. That was his argument. I was just trying to clarify what he meant.

I will say though, that if there is a significant advantage that can only be accessed through a script, somethings been done wrong.
 
Don't argue with me. That was his argument. I was just trying to clarify what he meant.

I will say though, that if there is a significant advantage that can only be accessed through a script, somethings been done wrong.

But there was never any advantage to switching weapons aside from unscoping, which made you fire slower.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037659661 said:
...and by automatically kicking you out to deagle it gives you a huge advantage...

Here is how I would solve the problem.

Code the engine such that after freezetime ends until the end of the round only key binds that issue a single command are accepted from clients. This would completely remove any scripting during the round and would be a huge improvement to the game play.

There was no scripting. You just pull out a pistol. It takes the same amount of time as normally pulling out a pistol. Why is that a problem?
 
Zarathustra[H];1037659661 said:
...and by automatically kicking you out to deagle it gives you a huge advantage...

Here is how I would solve the problem.

Code the engine such that after freezetime ends until the end of the round only key binds that issue a single command are accepted from clients. This would completely remove any scripting during the round and would be a huge improvement to the game play.

Scripting :confused: you just press last inv to switch to deagle and then again to switch back to primary, there is no scripting so please stop saying there is.
 
Back
Top