confirmed: AMD's big Navi launch to disrupt 4K gaming

Marees

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AMD CFO Devinder Kumar has confirmed (via PC Gamer) that "Big Navi" will be red team’s “first RDNA 2-based product.”



https://www.thefpsreview.com/2020/0...avi-gpu-will-arrive-before-next-gen-consoles/
AMD CFO Devinder Kumar hyped up Big Navi’s potential at the Bank of America Securities Global Technology Conference in early June, saying:

“big Navi is a halo product;
enthusiasts love to buy the best, and we are certainly working on giving them the best.”
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3561229/why-now-is-a-bad-time-to-buy-a-high-end-graphics-card.html
 

ThreeDee

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What would be a real kick in the pants would be for AMD to go "Bam! ...here you go 5700xt early adopters .. thank you ..here's a BIOS update .. you already have Big Navi!" ..and my card is unlocked trouncing the 2080ti by 33%. (y)
 

IdiotInCharge

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AMD CFO Devinder Kumar hyped up Big Navi’s potential at the Bank of America Securities Global Technology Conference in early June, saying:
A CFO, huh?

Also, that reeks of an 'I got to say something and I have to pimp my employer' more than an actual gloat. No mention of actually beating the competition, let alone beating the competition at something useful ;)


[which is mostly to say, he basically can't say anything else, so nothing he says can be taken as having any unique meaning]
 

Marees

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Rumor about Navi 23 aka the "Nvidia Killer" gpu



https://hardwareleaks.com/2020/05/23/exclusive-future-amd-gpu-stack-navi21-navi10-refresh/

I take it that he is implying that the RX 6700 XT will be $500+ & close to performance of RTX 2080 ti
Another "leak" from _rogame of Hardware Leaks .com

_rogame (@_rogame) Tweeted:
So the full line up is confirmed

NAVI21:gfx1030
NAVI22:gfx1031
NAVI23:gfx1032


VANGOGH:gfx1033
VANGOGHLITE:gfx1040
https://twitter.com/_rogame/status/1273792793144688640?s=20

Ea1rW-yWoAUuw_u.png
 

GoodBoy

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Thread title is misleading. Change "confirmed" to "rumor"

It will be confirmed once there are pricing and reviews out. And still not buying the "disruption" either. You are not a disrupter if you gotta ask "hey, can I come out and play too??"
 

Ready4Dis

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Thread title is misleading. Change "confirmed" to "rumor"

It will be confirmed once there are pricing and reviews out. And still not buying the "disruption" either. You are not a disrupter if you gotta ask "hey, can I come out and play too??"
Meh, disruption can mean many things. It could imply they will be competitive with a 2080 for less money. It doesn't have to mean 3090 Titan TI X killer. So, the statement doesn't have much meaning by itself. I don't buy the highest end cards, I'd gladly take something like a 2070 super for $200 or 2080 super for $350... That would be disruptive, just not in the sense you are implying. Again, it's a statement with no meaning... So it's meaningless to try to dissect it's meaning ;).
 

deruberhanyok

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I sill think all AMD has to do to be "disruptive" is release a high-end part competitive with NVIDIA's high-end in the same generation. There hasn't been competition at the high end since the gtx 1080 released, which is a little over 4 years now. So we've gotten some price creep at the top. If there's competition, those prices could come back down, and that could be disruptive.

May not be disruptive like "omg, one million fps at 8k" but it would definitely disrupt the current marketplace status quo ("mid range, pick AMD or nvidia; if you want high end, only choice is NVIDIA")

[edit] autocorrect somehow changed "current" to "corrupt" which I suppose is kind of accurate, but not really.
 
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fullvietFX

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Excited to do an all AMD build. I've been making new builds for ten years but I only play DOTA so I don't mind if they underperform.
 

Dayaks

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Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the screen just turns black randomly while playing. That would certainly "disrupt" your 4K gaming session.
Or maybe disruptive to AMD’s stock price. ;)

Is there a launch date for this thing? Surprised we’re almost in July and it’s not out...
 

Grimlakin

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Or maybe disruptive to AMD’s stock price. ;)

Is there a launch date for this thing? Surprised we’re almost in July and it’s not out...
It's not like we haven't had a global pandemic that has been disruptive to all kinds of work around the globe or anything. Yeesh.
 

Marees

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Is there a launch date for this thing? Surprised we’re almost in July and it’s not out...
When I started this thread in the beginning of the year, I expected some concrete information to be available by now

But it looks like we will be running on leaks & rumors till end of the year !!!
 

Ready4Dis

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Or maybe disruptive to AMD’s stock price. ;)

Is there a launch date for this thing? Surprised we’re almost in July and it’s not out...
Why would you be surprised? 5700xt launched in July last year, you think their next gen would be out in under a year? I mean, I wish it was out already, but realistically, probably will be announced in July time frame with availability August/September. That's just my wild ass guess though, could be October, who knows. Seems they are containing leaks pretty good so far or there just isn't much to leak yet.
 

Dayaks

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Why would you be surprised? 5700xt launched in July last year, you think their next gen would be out in under a year? I mean, I wish it was out already, but realistically, probably will be announced in July time frame with availability August/September. That's just my wild ass guess though, could be October, who knows. Seems they are containing leaks pretty good so far or there just isn't much to leak yet.
It’s been a long time since they had a high end card / ray tracing has been a thing. 5700XT was a small jump compared to what nVidia’s been doing. Basically got them to Pascal levels iirc.

Perhaps surprised wasn’t the right word. I am not surprised at all. Launching a 2080ti killer while the 3080ti launches would be par for the course. All comes down to performance/features per dollar...
 

Ready4Dis

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It’s been a long time since they had a high end card / ray tracing has been a thing. 5700XT was a small jump compared to what nVidia’s been doing. Basically got them to Pascal levels iirc.

Perhaps surprised wasn’t the right word. I am not surprised at all. Launching a 2080ti killer while the 3080ti launches would be par for the course. All comes down to performance/features per dollar...
Yah, I think disappointed would be a better term. Realistically, it'll probably launch around the same time as nvidias next gen while competing against current gen. I'm ok with that if priced right; personally I don't/won't spend $1k on my GPU anyways. Either way, looking forward to what they both come out with along with some benchmarks.
 

Ready4Dis

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This is AMD we're talking about: 50 / 50 that's still only as fast as the equivalently priced Nvidia card...
If only you were wrong, lol. My guess is they'll be competing against current gen cards rather than ampere. Get a small reprieve on prices from current and then we'll all be waiting again. They do seem to be making some progress, the 5700xt did/does well in it's price range. Hopefully this next gen will close the gap just a bit more and eventually they will get there. Unlike Intel, Nvidia has actually been a moving target.
 

ManofGod

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If only you were wrong, lol. My guess is they'll be competing against current gen cards rather than ampere. Get a small reprieve on prices from current and then we'll all be waiting again. They do seem to be making some progress, the 5700xt did/does well in it's price range. Hopefully this next gen will close the gap just a bit more and eventually they will get there. Unlike Intel, Nvidia has actually been a moving target.
Considering where they were just 3 years ago, I would say they are making significant progress. Also, "no leaks are good leaks" or, it appears they are running a tight ship there now. :) Personally, I could not care less if Nvidia becomes faster than what they have now, since I am not going to pay over $1000 for something I would not use enough to justify it.
 

deruberhanyok

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Yeah. They’re providing good options in their price range, but they seem to be a generation behind NVIDIA for top end performance since Pascal. (Arguably since Maxwell, but iirc the Fury X and 980ti launched around the same time and were fairly competitive with each other).

If NVIDIA had plateaued at Maxwell and we were calling the 3000 series “Maxwell+++” it might be a different story, but as it is, at least they’re kind of keeping up.

I thought they had said somewhere that a lot of the efficiency work that went into the design of the tiny Vega in Zen2 APUs also benefited RDNA2? So this next generation catching up to RTX performance seems reasonable, even if it’s just adding a few features and increasing clock speeds.

I have been wondering if they are intentionally waiting to release details to avoid a paper launch, and with supply chain slowdowns worldwide it’s just making everything take longer.
 

Ready4Dis

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Yeah. They’re providing good options in their price range, but they seem to be a generation behind NVIDIA for top end performance since Pascal. (Arguably since Maxwell, but iirc the Fury X and 980ti launched around the same time and were fairly competitive with each other).

If NVIDIA had plateaued at Maxwell and we were calling the 3000 series “Maxwell+++” it might be a different story, but as it is, at least they’re kind of keeping up.

I thought they had said somewhere that a lot of the efficiency work that went into the design of the tiny Vega in Zen2 APUs also benefited RDNA2? So this next generation catching up to RTX performance seems reasonable, even if it’s just adding a few features and increasing clock speeds.

I have been wondering if they are intentionally waiting to release details to avoid a paper launch, and with supply chain slowdowns worldwide it’s just making everything take longer.
They did mention something along those lines, but we'll have to wait and see what it amounts to.
 

polonyc2

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so if the rumors of Big Navi being at most 15% percent faster then a 2080Ti they will still be lagging behind Ampere...it seems AMD is always competing against the last gen of cards from Nvidia versus being able to compete in a straight up duel of current cards...why can't their GPU division catch up to their CPU division?
 

IdiotInCharge

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so if the rumors of Big Navi being at most 15% percent faster then a 2080Ti they will still be lagging behind Ampere...it seems AMD is always competing against the last gen of cards from Nvidia versus being able to compete in a straight up duel of current cards...why can't their GPU division catch up to their CPU division?
AMDs CPU division caught up with Intel's of five years ago; Intel got stuck on fab technology, whereas Nvidia uses the same ones as AMD. AMD is unlikely to catch up with Nvidia unless Nvidia stumbles first.
 

/dev/null

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so if the rumors of Big Navi being at most 15% percent faster then a 2080Ti they will still be lagging behind Ampere...it seems AMD is always competing against the last gen of cards from Nvidia versus being able to compete in a straight up duel of current cards...why can't their GPU division catch up to their CPU division?
If Big Navi is only 15% ahead of 2080Ti & costs $499, I'm in at launch (if linux drivers are available)
 

deruberhanyok

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If linux is your intended OS, my experience with the last several generations of running AMD cards at release on linux has been - wait for the next Ubuntu LTS release, then get one. Or be prepared to jump through a lot of hoops. Radeon 5700 was difficult at best to get working well on 18.04 and didn't even work on 19.10 without having to manually update the linux-firmware package. 20.04, though, it runs like a dream on a fresh install.

So get RDNA2 card in/around April/May 2022. :)
 

IdiotInCharge

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If linux is your intended OS, my experience with the last several generations of running AMD cards at release on linux has been - wait for the next Ubuntu LTS release, then get one. Or be prepared to jump through a lot of hoops. Radeon 5700 was difficult at best to get working well on 18.04 and didn't even work on 19.10 without having to manually update the linux-firmware package. 20.04, though, it runs like a dream on a fresh install.

So get RDNA2 card in/around April/May 2022. :)
Yeah... AMD is good about eventually supporting open-source in their drivers, which is more than Nvidia is doing on the FOSS side, but AMD is no Intel when it comes to driver support in Linux.
 

deruberhanyok

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Yeah, I can agree with that, though I think it’s important to note that they’re not as far behind as they used to be. I had the impression their Linux driver team wasn’t very big, but proper support for the 5700 cards came in kernel 5.3 that released in September, three months after the cards released. If the Ubuntu 19.10 release had come a little later and had a few more updated packages in it, they’d have worked “out of the box”.

ideally they’d have gotten support into 5.2, which released in July, or even 5.1, prior to the card launch.

anyways, I’m assuming it will be largely the same for RDNA2 cards, so if the first ones do come out this year, decent support for them might land in time for inclusion in Ubuntu 21.04, but I think it’s just easier for compatibility to wait for the next LTS and upgrade after. Easier on the wallet too. :)
 

IdiotInCharge

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Mostly, they need to get 'base' support into the kernel before release. Get everything working that a desktop needs, and then patch in support for the rest. At least get that far, and set the user up to download a driver package if need be, with those ready upon retail availability.
 

kirbyrj

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so if the rumors of Big Navi being at most 15% percent faster then a 2080Ti they will still be lagging behind Ampere...it seems AMD is always competing against the last gen of cards from Nvidia versus being able to compete in a straight up duel of current cards...why can't their GPU division catch up to their CPU division?
Even if it performs at or just above the 2080Ti, as long as the price is right, I still think it's a win for AMD. The big lose for AMD is if Nvidia prices Ampere less than Turing (say $1000 for the high end card). You'll have a flood of used 2080Ti's on the market for $699 and you'll be trying to sell the card for $799-899.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Even if it performs at or just above the 2080Ti, as long as the price is right, I still think it's a win for AMD. The big lose for AMD is if Nvidia prices Ampere less than Turing (say $1000 for the high end card). You'll have a flood of used 2080Ti's on the market for $699 and you'll be trying to sell the card for $799-899.
I want to attempt to summarize the argument against AMD pricing lower, open for criticism:

Basically, if AMD prices lower enough, Nvidia will simply lower their own prices to keep AMD in check. From a business standpoint, Nvidia can afford to do this more than AMD can, and is more likely to be willing to do it. So AMD is best off pricing just under Nvidia on the outset and getting better margins.
 

Snowdog

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I want to attempt to summarize the argument against AMD pricing lower, open for criticism:

Basically, if AMD prices lower enough, Nvidia will simply lower their own prices to keep AMD in check. From a business standpoint, Nvidia can afford to do this more than AMD can, and is more likely to be willing to do it. So AMD is best off pricing just under Nvidia on the outset and getting better margins.
I agree with that. Basically you have a duopoly for discrete GPUs, it's not in either members best interest to get in a price war, which will just eat valuable margins they both want.
 

Aegir

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Nvidia can play tech war and price war.
But AMD is only able to fight on the price front.

Unless AMD has something impressive planned for RDNA2. Something surprising.
 

odditory

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I want to attempt to summarize the argument against AMD pricing lower, open for criticism:

Basically, if AMD prices lower enough, Nvidia will simply lower their own prices to keep AMD in check. From a business standpoint, Nvidia can afford to do this more than AMD can, and is more likely to be willing to do it. So AMD is best off pricing just under Nvidia on the outset and getting better margins.
All AMD would be doing in a hypothetical of lowering price is giving away margin to retailers and gougers - the market will continue to pay the same for an AMD GPU in terms of dollars-per-performance to a comparable Nvidia GPU.

People dreaming of a mythical $499 2080Ti-killer are just not understanding that the world has changed, and it's probably going to require more years before the benefit of enough hindsight for it to click and be obvious.
 

IdiotInCharge

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All AMD would be doing in a hypothetical of lowering price is giving away margin to retailers and gougers - the market will continue to pay the same in terms of dollars-per-performance.
At least until their supply of GPUs exceeds demand, and then they'll just be losing margins. Better to let Nvidia have higher margins too than undercut their own revenue.
 
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