Clair Obscur: Expedition 33

pendragon1 said:
you must LOVE jammin on A ;) all the qte is the only thing im not liking about it but its still good so far(not that far, barely into the island)
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Thankfully you don't "jam" on anything, it's a single timed press per hit of the attack which stays consistent for each type and you don't have to do it to get a successful hit. I generally hate QTEs but the way this is implemented, it doesn't feel like a traditional QTE to me. I also really like the ranged element they added to the combat system.
 
grifter_66 said:
Thankfully you don't "jam" on anything, it's a single timed press per hit of the attack which stays consistent for each type and you don't have to do it to get a successful hit. I generally hate QTEs but the way this is implemented, it doesn't feel like a traditional QTE to me. I also really like the ranged element they added to the combat system.
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The way I see it, you have to be spamming counters, those do much more damage than regular attacks or even skills. But there seems to be some inconsistency with parrying. I can parry with one character but not with another, IDK if it is intentional or not. This makes the game trial and error figuring out which attack can you parry and how to time it.
 
M76 said:
The way I see it, you have to be spamming counters, those do much more damage than regular attacks or even skills. But there seems to be some inconsistency with parrying. I can parry with one character but not with another, IDK if it is intentional or not. This makes the game trial and error figuring out which attack can you parry and how to time it.
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It's just figuring out the timing with each character in regards to the type of attack being used against you, just like any other game with a parry/block/dodge mechanic. Certain enemy attacks are definitely more difficult to counter than others, that's just normal video game stuff.
 
I started playing this a bit. The attack QTE is pretty easy, but I find the block/parry timings to be all over the place and really hard to pull off.
 
grifter_66 said:
It's just figuring out the timing with each character in regards to the type of attack being used against you, just like any other game with a parry/block/dodge mechanic. Certain enemy attacks are definitely more difficult to counter than others, that's just normal video game stuff.
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Trial and error shouldn't be normal video game stuff, it's sad that it has been normalized. I think proper game design is when there are clear cues that you can read without retrying an encounter dozens of times trying out what works and what doesn't.
 
M76 said:
Trial and error shouldn't be normal video game stuff, it's sad that it has been normalized. I think proper game design is when there are clear cues that you can read without retrying an encounter dozens of times trying out what works and what doesn't.
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Yeah, there's basically no indication of the timing on parries or dodging, and it's not like the window is overly generous.
 
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cvinh said:
It's kinda freaky that it's matching AC Shadows all time concurrent.

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I imagine it'll break that record this weekend. Clair is also a day 1 Game Pass too and I doubt its budget is as high as Ass Creed.
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Probably around half of AC Shadow's PC owners have it on Ubisoft Connect. I know I do. Still, given the likely massive budget difference Clair Obscur is doing quite well. I would assume it cost less than half to develop, probably a 3rd. Graphically it looks nice and it shows you what a focused team can do with a comparatively modest budget and development size team.
 
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M76 said:
Trial and error shouldn't be normal video game stuff, it's sad that it has been normalized. I think proper game design is when there are clear cues that you can read without retrying an encounter dozens of times trying out what works and what doesn't.
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There are plenty of clues, just watch the enemy attack animations/frames, it's literally how video games with this mechanic have worked since the 16-bit era. If you want a game that plays itself stick with games like Myst.
 
Flogger23m said:
Probably around half of AC Shadow's PC owners have it on Ubisoft Connect. I know I do. Still, given the likely massive budget difference Clair Obscur is doing quite well. I would assume it cost less than half to develop, probably a 3rd. Graphically it looks nice and it shows you what a focused team can do with a comparatively modest budget and development size team.
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Ubisoft connect has between 4 to 5 million Uplay subscribers compared to Gamepass over 30 million subscribers. So having a game on Gamepass should hurt sales way way more than having it on Ubisoft. Which is why these figured for Clair are so impressive.
 
MavericK said:
Yeah, there's basically no indication of the timing on parries or dodging, and it's not like the window is overly generous.
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grifter_66 said:
There are plenty of clues, just watch the enemy attack animations/frames, it's literally how video games with this mechanic have worked since the 16-bit era. If you want a game that plays itself stick with games like Myst.
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i think its the yellow trails that appear as they swing but i still cant get it right....
 
imsirovic5 said:
Ubisoft connect has between 4 to 5 million Uplay subscribers compared to Gamepass over 30 million subscribers. So having a game on Gamepass should hurt sales way way more than having it on Ubisoft. Which is why these figured for Clair are so impressive.
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Ubisoft Connect isn't a subscription, it is a launcher like Steam. When you buy an Ubisoft game you get an Ubisoft Connect key. Exception is Steam, if you purchase on Steam it is tied to your Ubisoft Connect account and I believe still launches Connect when you launch the game. I haven't received an Ubisoft game on Steam in well over a decade, so I am not exactly sure how it works now. All the Ubisoft games I get are for Connect as they're either cheaper than Steam or free/giveaways. I know a lot of people will always want to launch it from Steam even if it means paying more, but I assume a large chunk of people purchase it elsewhere and get it directly on Connect as it is cheaper.

End of the day, you're still launching Connect even if you get it on Steam.
 
pendragon1 said:
its a big number for a small studio, so they are pretty stoked.

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note the lack of colored hair ;)
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Note the stupidity of this statement, as though we should judge a person by the color of their hair rather than the content of their character.

Speaking of stupidity… might want to look a little harder at the photo, dude.

Lack of colored hair?

LOL
 
Hershy said:
Note the stupidity of this statement, as though we should judge a person by the color of their hair rather than the content of their character.

Speaking of stupidity… might want to look a little harder at the photo, dude.

Lack of colored hair?

LOL
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lol its been proven over and over...
get your eyes checked
 
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Can someone explain something to me about the premise? Mild spoilers about the first 30 minutes of the game below...

"Once a year, the Paintress wakes and paints upon her monolith. Paints her cursed number and everyone of that age turns to smoke and fades away."

So in the beginning of the game, she paints 33. That means everyone who is 33 dies, right? So what happens if you're in the 32 age range, let's say 32.5. You wouldn't die when she paints 33 since you're not 33, but you also wouldn't die when she paints 32 since you will have rolled over to 33 by the time that happens. So don't you beat death in that case?

As a software engineer I must know the exact logic to this.
 
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pendragon1 said:
its a big number for a small studio, so they are pretty stoked.

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note the lack of colored hair ;)
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are people talking about developers' hair color now as some of barometer on whether a game will be good lol?...there's a guy in the background in that pic with green highlights in his hair, so there goes that theory :eek: :ROFLMAO:
 
polonyc2 said:
are people talking about developers' hair color now as some of barometer on whether a game will be good lol?...there's a guy in the background in that pic with green highlights in his hair, so there goes that theory :eek: :ROFLMAO:
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its over head lighting you can see it in the guys glasses next to him. and the red head in the bottom right, her hair looks funny because of the window lighting.
and yes, as i already said; its a pretty good indicator.
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:rolleyes:
i deal with at TONNE of coloured hair yahoos in edu....
 
Flogger23m said:
Probably around half of AC Shadow's PC owners have it on Ubisoft Connect. I know I do. Still, given the likely massive budget difference Clair Obscur is doing quite well. I would assume it cost less than half to develop, probably a 3rd. Graphically it looks nice and it shows you what a focused team can do with a comparatively modest budget and development size team.
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This was developed by one studio of less than 100 people. Ac Shadows was made by thousands of people across multiple studios on multiple continents. I think the budget difference is more like 10 to 1 if not even higher. With the games pass deal included they are probably into the black already even "only" at 500k sold.
polonyc2 said:
are people talking about developers' hair color now as some of barometer on whether a game will be good lol?
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It seems to be a pretty good indicator. Esp. in lead designer positions.

grifter_66 said:
There are plenty of clues, just watch the enemy attack animations/frames, it's literally how video games with this mechanic have worked since the 16-bit era. If you want a game that plays itself stick with games like Myst.
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LOL, no. What does watching frames tell you? Nothing! You can't figure out when to dodge or parry, you have to guess the right moment. if you manage to succeed in a few tries, that is luck, not skill. And just because a bad game design has existed for 30+ years, that does not make it good.

This is "guess what the developer was thinking when he designed this encounter".

What do you mean plays itself? I prefer games that require skill, not psychic abilities or luck.
 
M76 said:
Trial and error shouldn't be normal video game stuff, it's sad that it has been normalized. I think proper game design is when there are clear cues that you can read without retrying an encounter dozens of times trying out what works and what doesn't.
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This.. Enjoying the game storywise, but yes the block/parry is frustrating at times...not impossible, but still frustrating none the less. Mostly annoyed that when I get to new enemies, I basically die the first/second encounter until I learn there moves and then block/parry enough to survive the fight. I been having way more success with the Lune (second companion) then Gustave for whats its worth with the blocks/parries.
 
Unexpected very solid title. Not something I would ever check out typically but decided to with the quiet hype(and Game Pass helps). Top to bottom well done so far. Only about 3 hours in, great music, atmosphere, animations, story, character development. I usually skip through cutscenes in every game I play because i don't care about story, but this one is different.

It isn't without its flaws/frustrations, but happily dealing.
 
M76 said:
LOL, no. What does watching frames tell you? Nothing! You can't figure out when to dodge or parry, you have to guess the right moment. if you manage to succeed in a few tries, that is luck, not skill. And just because a bad game design has existed for 30+ years, that does not make it good.

This is "guess what the developer was thinking when he designed this encounter".

What do you mean plays itself? I prefer games that require skill, not psychic abilities or luck.
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The ability to read animations is a learned skill. Your innate reaction time will also play a critical role. The animations in this game are telegraphed sufficiently to facilitate reaction based success. Some are more difficult to read and time than others but that's part of the challenge. I'd recommend lowering the difficulty if you're having issues reading and reacting to the attacks. The timing windows are tight so there's no shame. Especially if you don't find the challenge rewarding and view it as more luck based gameplay.

I'll risk an analogy. If you're at all familiar with baseball, then it reminds me of the interaction between a batter and pitcher. The timing window for a 90 mph pitch is about .45 seconds and 50 mph is .65 seconds. In that time, the batter must recognize the pitch, decide whether to commit, and execute the swing. It's a learned skill and not everyone excels at it, even at the MLB level of competition.
 
JavaLava said:
This.. Enjoying the game storywise, but yes the block/parry is frustrating at times...not impossible, but still frustrating none the less. Mostly annoyed that when I get to new enemies, I basically die the first/second encounter until I learn there moves and then block/parry enough to survive the fight. I been having way more success with the Lune (second companion) then Gustave for whats its worth with the blocks/parries.
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I'm the other way around. I could parry with Gustave quite often, but haven't managed it once with Lune, I was actually thinking she might not be able to parry period.
Satarel said:
The ability to read animations is a learned skill. Your innate reaction time will also play a critical role.
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IDK what is there to read? Some of the attack animations are as long as an eternity. There is absolutely nothing that tells me when do I need to press parry during that animation. It's a complete shot in the dark until you accidentally hit the spot. You are mixing up luck with skill. Nothing proves this more than the fact that I happened to find the right timing with one character but not the other. Skill is reproducing it after you already found the timing, but that's easy.
Satarel said:
The animations in this game are telegraphed sufficiently to facilitate reaction based success. Some are more difficult to read and time than others but that's part of the challenge. I'd recommend lowering the difficulty if you're having issues reading and reacting to the attacks. The timing windows are tight so there's no shame. Especially if you don't find the challenge rewarding and view it as more luck based gameplay.
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They are too telegraphed that's the issue. The enemies attack animations are 4-5 seconds long but the window to parry is very short and can be almost anywhere in that time frame. You don't know which part of the animation to react to until you accidentally hit the sweet spot. There is not even clear feedback on whether you were too early or too late.
Satarel said:
I'll risk an analogy. If you're at all familiar with baseball, then it reminds me of the interaction between a batter and pitcher. The timing window for a 90 mph pitch is about .45 seconds and 50 mph is .65 seconds. In that time, the batter must recognize the pitch, decide whether to commit, and execute the swing. It's a learned skill and not everyone excels at it, even at the MLB level of competition.
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The issue is not the length of the window, but that you don't know where is it until you happen to hit it.
 
M76 said:
They are too telegraphed that's the issue. The enemies attack animations are 4-5 seconds long but the window to parry is very short and can be almost anywhere in that time frame. You don't know which part of the animation to react to until you accidentally hit the sweet spot. There is not even clear feedback on whether you were too early or too late.
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yup, thats where i have the issue. i know what to look for but not the time to press it.
 
I agree that a little trial and error is necessary here. I don't see that as a bad thing though. It's a bit of a reward when you find the sweet spot.

I also don't think you should be going for parry on your first encounter with a new enemy type. Start with dodge. It has a much more generous window. You can also use it as a tool to find the parry sweet spot. Perfect dodge = Parry window. So work on finding the perfect dodge and getting consistent with it, then switch over to parry. Remember you can skip your turn so you can practice dodging as long as you'd like.
 
Studio with 20 or so employees unequivocally owning AAA slop factories powered by 10s of thousands of employees, really makes you think. It is now one of the highest user rated games of all time on Metacritic.....I think I am going to push this ahead of other games in my backlog.

And despite being on Game Pass, it's Steam stats are destroying Avowed and Slop Creed Shadows.

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I hope they make some other games. I guess they are ex: UBI workers must of been their overseas division.
 
M76 said:
https://x.com/expedition33/status/1916409440011444331

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it's nice that they made a point of saying that Game Pass players were not included...all studios should release sales numbers this way...otherwise Game Pass, Ubisoft+ etc skews the overall numbers and can make it look better then it actually is...not to say that Game Pass doesn't mean anything because it does but they need to separate actual sales from people who paid for the game versus cheap subscription services

* then again they would also have to exclude people who buy game codes for cheap from Nvidia/AMD bundles or people buying from gray market key sellers
 
This has got to have one of the strongest openings in gaming history. I don't think I've ever been so engrossed in the first 30 minutes of a game before. Like wow... They cooked up something special here.

They'd better make a movie out of this. The premise is way too fascinating not to.
 
polonyc2 said:
then again they would also have to exclude people who buy game codes for cheap from Nvidia/AMD bundles or people buying from gray market key sellers
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Why would you exclude those? Those are all retail copies paid for by the company bundling them, or the key seller who is reselling them. Or do you think those keys are just given out for free?

On the other hand MS pays an undisclosed sum up front for including it on games pass, how many people actually end up playing on games pass does not change how much the developer gets.
 
TwistedMetalGear said:
I agree that a little trial and error is necessary here. I don't see that as a bad thing though. It's a bit of a reward when you find the sweet spot.

I also don't think you should be going for parry on your first encounter with a new enemy type. Start with dodge. It has a much more generous window. You can also use it as a tool to find the parry sweet spot. Perfect dodge = Parry window. So work on finding the perfect dodge and getting consistent with it, then switch over to parry. Remember you can skip your turn so you can practice dodging as long as you'd like.
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The problem for me is, even if you can try to get the timing down, usually the enemy animations just pause for some indeterminate amount of time and then attack, making it hard to dodge or parry consistently. Even when I know what the enemy attack pattern is, without any sort of indication of timing it makes it really frustrating sometimes.
 
I went and bought Oblivion Remaster then saw some more coverage of this game, bought it, playing it, forgot about Oblivion.

Really enjoying it and it is so welcoming to play a new type of game. I felt myself not getting into Oblivion, maybe for another time.

I hope Sandfall remains an independent studio and doesn't get eaten up and spit out by Microsoft. They need to lock their doors and mark Phil Spencer as "persona non grata."
 
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