Aqua Computer or Dtek

[Erasmus354]

You know you don't need to buy an external solution to get the functionality. They make devices that fit a single bay.

Oh boy will this be fun....

Imagine if you didn't have to reach down to your minifrig everytime you wanted to decrease/increase the fan speeds?

If I remember correctly he is using an mCubed to control his fans which is both internal, automatic, and cheaper than an aquaero.

Oh imagine if you COULD overlock your pump via software?

Why do you need that? Your going to find what speed you want to run it at and leave it there. The only pump he would consider getting that would work for that is the DDC....which coincidentally can also be controlled by the mCubed. Or is the Aquastream still the only fully controllable pump with the aqua suite?

Say you want your fans to increase based on sensors such as water temp or other sensors?

Once again, mCubed....or for even cheaper.... motherboard.

Say you want your fans to turn back to silent when the sensors reach a normal (user setting) level?

mCubed, or better yet, motherboard. No need for all that fancy stuff for something like this when the functionality is built into most motherboards (especially ones used for overclocking).

Or have LED's turn colors based on senors or devices?

Most pointless thing ever? I think yes.

Imagine having eight dry contacts for full control via software just say a PLC?

Imagining, are my panties supposed to be in a bunch yet? Because its not getting me very excited.

Maybe you would like to output the data from the devices to say your computer screen for desktop dispay?

Or you could just output your data automatically into XML files?

Admittedly one of the few things I personally might be interested....but thats because I am a sucker for information. Not needed by any means to have a good and balanced watercooling system however.

Or heaven forbid control the device over the internet?

Oh heaven forbid my pump runs too loud while I am in class or on vacation! The horrorz!!! Must adjust speed over intarweb!

Hmm... yeah and have a LCD display showing as much or as little as necessary?

Done through cheaper LCD Displays as well.

And best for those, like yourself, who just have too much money run up to 32 of these devices all at the same time?

32 times the pointlessness = 32 times the non-fun?

Oh yeah, that Rheobus does all of that too?

Actually, pretty much all of it yes. That and all of the other already integrated features of a motherboard, and freeware software.



The aquaero is a nice piece of hardware. It does bundle a lot of things together, whether they serve a purpose or not. For me it doesn't provide a good price/performance because most of its features can be done through cheaper means without all the flash.

 

[Bio-Hazard]

Just got my chuckle for the day. ............

I guess people hve to shot of arms or maybe just to lazy to reach over and turn up/down a fan when they want. They would rather go through all the software to do the same thing. Let me see, $20 bucks for a rheobus and have to move my arm and turn a dial or several hundred for something that takes up more system resourses, and takes just as long to adjust manually. I'll take the cheaper part and put the money towards a better video card or CPU.

 

[Narisatu]

Or heaven forbid control the device over the internet?

Can you say security risk? I dont want any additional possible security holes into my computer, ESPECIALLY NOT my cooling system.

 

[Arcygenical]

I havn't adjusted my pump or rheobus in weeks

 

[Bio-Hazard]

Maybe we should throw a pump adjustment party so everyone can adjust their pumps all at one time..............

 

[JC634]

Well,

If you already have a CFA-631 or CFA-635, you can add automatic fan control for $34.00: http://www.crystalfontz.com/cgi-bin/pricing.pl?product=SCAB. Alot cheaper than the "hundreds" being thrown around here.

As far as external solutions, I recently purchased a tape-duplicator box. Put in some CF displays, MRC-220 reservoir, dual 5-1/4 bay reservoir, D5 pump, Swissflow flow sensor, and other misc junk. Crystalfontz made me a special cable so that my SCAB is in the computer (on the floor) and the display is in my external box.

BTW, the best "silencer" I have ever found is do what I did (put the computer on the floor). Does wonders for creating the silent treatment...

 

[alatalo]

I think the t-balancer has the same internet-functions as ac's software, I seem to recall that it is possible to control it through a network/internet(the t-balancer)

I think it's a bit funny that R1ckCa1ns post more or less is a checklist for the features included in the tbalancer

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Oh boy will this be fun....

LOL... it was fun

The aquaero is a nice piece of hardware. It does bundle a lot of things together, whether they serve a purpose or not. For me it doesn't provide a good price/performance because most of its features can be done through cheaper means without all the flash.

See I would rather buy one device that can do it all than rely on four sub companies to get my task completed. That is the great part of having choice and I am a firm believer you get what you pay for. Three things typically happen to the bargin shopper:

1. Pay less and get less
2. End up paying more to get what they really wanted
3. Complain about price before even understanding what it is

Well,

If you already have a CFA-631 or CFA-635, you can add automatic fan control for $34.00: http://www.crystalfontz.com/cgi-bin/pricing.pl?product=SCAB. Alot cheaper than the "hundreds" being thrown around here.

I owned a crystalfontz product ONCE. Never again......

I think the t-balancer has the same internet-functions as ac's software, I seem to recall that it is possible to control it through a network/internet(the t-balancer)

I think it's a bit funny that R1ckCa1ns post more or less is a checklist for the features included in the tbalancer

Hardly, but keep thinking so. That is a cheap mans rip off of an Aquero.

I havn't adjusted my pump or rheobus in weeks

I know you would if you could~!

Maybe we should throw a pump adjustment party so everyone can adjust their pumps all at one time..............

Mine is running at 62hz right now, how about yours? Oh yeah you don't know

Can you say security risk? I dont want any additional possible security holes into my computer, ESPECIALLY NOT my cooling system.

Do yourself a favor an unplug your internet connection from your computer as you are a security risk by being connected,,,,,,,, Get the point?

 

[JC634]

I owned a crystalfontz product ONCE. Never again......

So you do not own any AC LCD's, which use CF LCD's? And before you attempt to correct me, yes, the VFD's are made by Noritake. Just ask TN, if you do not believe me.

 

[Narisatu]

Do yourself a favor an unplug your internet connection from your computer as you are a security risk by being connected,,,,,,,, Get the point?

Actually, i didnt say anything about getting rid of risk. I said its yet ANOTHER security risk that doesnt need to be there. I already have enough things to secure without having to worry about someone tampering with thousands of dollars worth of hardware by screwing with my cooling system.

 

[Ranker]

LOL... it was fun



See I would rather buy one device that can do it all than rely on four sub companies to get my task completed. That is the great part of having choice and I am a firm believer you get what you pay for. Three things typically happen to the bargin shopper:

1. Pay less and get less
2. End up paying more to get what they really wanted
3. Complain about price before even understanding what it is

So you like to pay more and expect more for your money. Which is exactly what AC/Koolance/Zalman systems don't provide.

Hardly, but keep thinking so. That is a cheap mans rip off of an Aquero.

You're delusional. AC came out with their product 2 years after mCubed beat them to the market with a product that does the exact same thing. If anyone copied, it's AC.

Mine is running at 62hz right now, how about yours? Oh yeah you don't know

T-balancer/BigNG monitors pumps as well.

Do yourself a favor an unplug your internet connection from your computer as you are a security risk by being connected,,,,,,,, Get the point?

I think the only thing you've proved with your participation in this thread is that you also need a pair of AC pom poms.

Your only redeeming factor is that you choose the D-Tek Fuzion for your CPU block instead of an AC block. So maybe you're just in denial but on the path to recovery.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

I think the only thing you've proved with your participation in this thread is that you also need a pair of AC pom poms.

Actually it is to make sure people with sig files full of e-penis don't over run this forum. You can tell by the incredible detail in your sig you want instant respect based on some text. I would venture to guess you are one of those guys who reads alot, trys very little but have the opinion of a genious (and narrow minded). I would have much more respect if you actually tried 1/8th of the hardware you bash.

Your only redeeming factor is that you choose the D-Tek Fuzion for your CPU block instead of an AC block. So maybe you're just in denial but on the path to recovery.

Nah, I have supported Danny since he moved from Las Vegas years ago. As a matter of fact I have owned each of his blocks dating back to his first Spir@l batch (and have a TC-4 rev2 sitting in my offic). I loved will calling from his garage

Granted the Fuzion works well in my loop considering the 6mm tubing; as a matter of fact so did my Storm block with the same tubing.

 

[Ranker]

Actually it is to make sure people with sig files full of e-penis don't over run this forum. You can tell by the incredible detail in your sig you want instant respect based on some text. I would venture to guess you are one of those guys who reads alot, trys very little but have the opinion of a genious (and narrow minded). I would have much more respect if you actually tried 1/8th of the hardware you bash.

I was a noob once and owned a Koolance Exos and a Zalman Reserator. I've also purchased and helped install a TT bigwater kit which was ultimately returned for a Corsair kit for a friend when we fit jumped into the WC'ing world. So yes, I've had plenty of experience with the companies I no longer support or approve of. After doing more research, I made the jump into custom rigs and never looked back. My personal opinion is that companies like Koolance/Zalman/TT/AC exist only to introduce "noobs" to the world of watercooling. They exploit our insecurities by providing a kit so to speak and overcharge us dearly for those insecurities. However, the majority of those who purchase these products rarely go back. Why pay so much more for so much less performance, built with questionable material and have to deal with external monstrosities?

I have a large waterblock collection that I draw my experiences from. I personally like to test blocks out for myself to corroborate what others have found. Why? Because it's one of my many hobbies that I like to tinker with. In my work den right now I have an Apogee GT, D-Tek FuZion, DD TDX, and EK wave. Some people collect beanie babies, I collect water blocks. So please don't even go there with my so called lack of experience. I think my experience is pretty evident with my assistance I provide others on this forum. Unlike you who wishes to push hardware for personal satisfaction of knowing what he bought is "the shit", I prefer to push the evolution of water cooling for more performance rather than the recent trend of "hey let's make shit pretty and charge people up the ass for it". That does the hobby a disservice.

I don't need or crave "respect" for the hardware I run. Some people fix up cars, some people fix up airplanes, I'm a watercooling enthusiast. Maybe it's a fashion faux pas to list your loop in detail over on [H], but it's quite common for us over on XS and Anandtech forums. Buy hey base your personal attacks on whatever insecurities you may be.

Granted the Fuzion works well in my loop considering the 6mm tubing; as a matter of fact so did my Storm block with the same tubing.

I guess that's where we differ. Maybe its my original degree in engineering, but things are meant to work optimally...just not well. Most people know that Storm blocks and similar designs require a lot of flow and a powerful pump.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Why pay so much more for so much less performance, built with questionable material and have to deal with external monstrosities?

How do you quantify "performance"? Have you ran an Aquaduct360 with ANY BLOCK? How can you call it shitty? I quantify it how well allows for my overclocking desires, doesn't require two cases welded together, AND dead silent. Guess what? This thing is DEAD SEXY. Considering I went from a high flow pump, larger tubing, and a "better block" and didn't lose anything, why bother? I guess you would have to try it to understand........ Yes I know that would require thinking out of the box.....

What I do get is the ability to run upwards of 6 blocks in a loop and get what I want. Now if I want outright overclocking performance, phase changing is the only solution as it should be for any user looking for outright overclocking.

We did a poll on this forum recently and the majority of the users wanted silent operations will allows for a modest overclock. So based on EXPERIENCE of running all those configurations it is my duty to make sure [H] members get the full story that there are more options out there. "See first sentence of next response for full explaination"

I think my experience is pretty evident with my assistance I provide others on this forum. Unlike you who wishes to push hardware for personal satisfaction of knowing what he bought is "the shit", I prefer to push the evolution of water cooling for more performance rather than the recent trend of "hey let's make shit pretty and charge people up the ass for it". That does the hobby a disservice.

Except your answer is always the same..... Buy swiftec or Dtek from the same website. What does that say?

You, nor I, will have any affect on the evolution unless one of us ponies up a large amount of cash for R&D to someone with a great design idea. Swiftech and DD are too busy trying to refine each others designs and Cathar is pretty much out of the picture so all we have left is looks (hence the newest attempt by Swiftec).

I guess that's where we differ. Maybe its my original degree in engineering, but things are meant to work optimally...just not well. Most people know that Storm blocks and similar designs require a lot of flow and a powerful pump.

Again, go back to the basics (which is often forgotten), what is watercooling actually achieving and what is the users requirements. You don't need a industrial size pump and garden hoses to acheive great results. Can I loan you my CuplexXT for a trail or are you afraid of the results?

 

[Arcygenical]

Actually it is to make sure people with sig files full of e-penis don't over run this forum. You can tell by the incredible detail in your sig you want instant respect based on some text. I would venture to guess you are one of those guys who reads alot, trys very little but have the opinion of a genious (and narrow minded). I would have much more respect if you actually tried 1/8th of the hardware you bash.

You are equally at fault with the epenis comment R1ck, both you and Ranker speak like your word is absolute, and try to pass off opinion as fact. Stop it.

 

[n00btard]

You are equally at fault with the epenis comment R1ck, both you and Ranker speak like your word is absolute, and try to pass off opinion as fact. Stop it.

Thank you.

 

[Arcygenical]

I'm really tempted to grab a CPU only AC loop, and compare it with my current loop, just to see what the difference really is...

Too bad it's way too much money to import it all

Gotta admit, AC does have the control-crown though. Nothing compares to the Aquaero... It'll probably be my next upgrade if the LCD comes in red. T-balancer is good, but might as well pay 200$ or so for the best solution on the market, it's not THAT expensive. Just so long as it defaults to maximum voltage as a "fail safe" if the software solution ever buggers up, I'd seriously consider it.

But, I think we can ALL agree on one thing. AC parts COST MORE, while performing at least EQUAL (but not better) to big-bore solutions. They look incredible too. So, you're paying for style over absolute performance. If you value STYLE over absolute performance, AC is a great company to go with... If you care about dominating in the temperature department, look elsewhere.

 

[n00btard]

Snoop around on www.aquatuning.de

You'll notice that AC products are sometimes cheaper than products by other manufacturers, sometimes more expensive.

Competitively priced, like Thermochill in the European market.

Import it to North America, however...

Diff. between Thermochill and AC is that Thermochill is an established performance leader, and AC isn't.

 

[Ranker]

How do you quantify "performance"? Have you ran an Aquaduct360 with ANY BLOCK? How can you call it shitty? I quantify it how well allows for my overclocking desires, doesn't require two cases welded together, AND dead silent. Guess what? This thing is DEAD SEXY. Considering I went from a high flow pump, larger tubing, and a "better block" and didn't lose anything, why bother? I guess you would have to try it to understand........ Yes I know that would require thinking out of the box.....

Performance is measured by the temperature drop. That's how I quantify performance. I guess if your preference is for an external product that sits outside your case, then so be it. But for much much less, a person can fit everything inside a case and get better performance. I guess you meant "thinking outside the box" to be taken literally. Amirite?

What I do get is the ability to run upwards of 6 blocks in a loop and get what I want. Now if I want outright overclocking performance, phase changing is the only solution as it should be for any user looking for outright overclocking.

Phase units allow for greater overclocks, but the cost is so steep that many find water to be the only form of mainstream cooling. Phase and LN2 is still basically made for those who want to break the record charts over on Anand and XS. It's primarily for benching and will remain that way until costs can be brought down to reasonable levels for average enthusiast. Most Vapochill units run in the $1k just for barebones. Most WC loops cost only $300 for a full solution. Phase aint exactly a mainstream solution. I'm not even sure why we are bringing this up.

Except your answer is always the same..... Buy swiftec or Dtek from the same website. What does that say?

If AC put out a block that performed better for roughly the same cost, you'll be seeing me sing a completely different tune. The stores I recommend most often (Petrastechshop & Jab-tech) are the most customer oriented stores you can purchase from that offer great prices and tech support. They don't carry crap and won't push crap on you.

You, nor I, will have any affect on the evolution unless one of us ponies up a large amount of cash for R&D to someone with a great design idea. Swiftech and DD are too busy trying to refine each others designs and Cathar is pretty much out of the picture so all we have left is looks

I think that's an easy cop out. We have purchasing power. When people stop purchasing Koolance units, they'll learn the error in their ways. When we purchase the products of those whom push the hobby to new heights, we encourage innovation. WC'ing has been at a standstill for the past 6 months if not year without any major gains. Buying bling is sending the wrong the signal to the companies responsible for developing new blocks/technology.

Again, go back to the basics (which is often forgotten), what is watercooling actually achieving and what is the users requirements. You don't need a industrial size pump and garden hoses to acheive great results. Can I loan you my CuplexXT for a trail or are you afraid of the results?

I'm sure you don't need industrial size pumps and garden hoses. Swiftech radiators & Laing pumps are cost effective and the best you can get for everyday use. Feel free to come over to my place with the Cuplex XT DI and we'll dissect it's performance. You can even witness my system (and systems) that you've called me a liar over. You'll even get to see my graveyard of waterblocks on my work/hobby bench including my now retired Zalman reserator/etc.

Hell maybe we can even break bread instead of sounding like two bitches who just pissed in each others cheerios. But seriously, the fanboyism of "I bought it and paid a shit ton for it, so it must be the best and I'll defend it at all costs" type of attitude needs to stop. This should be reserved for the kids in the Wii vs 360 vs PS3 forums.

 

[Narisatu]

Ranker, check your PMs.

R1cK, question for you. Why would you enter into watercooling with just whatever companies are trying to push on you, instead of doing research in forums like this, asking other peoples opinions, and then starting your own opinions off of those? Then, once you get into it with good equipment, drawing your own conclusions from your own testing, or use, but all the while building off of the things that other people told you.

I bet the only reason you got into AC was because someone convinced you that AC was 'better' than anything else, and you decide not to test any other solution because you dont want to spend more money on a new setup. I bet if you bought a Laing DDC, some half inch tubing, a PA120.3, and some new barbs for that D-tek, you would stop bitching about high-flow vs low flow.

They each have their place. Low flow is great for passive/silent cooling, High flow is performance oriented (and dont give me BS about how flow doesnt make much of a difference. you know it does, though not much, it does make a difference. and dont make a comment that performance is a relative term either, it isnt. Silence, and looks are relative, to the individual, but performance is not, performance is testable, and thats in how well the blocks take heat away from the parts, and how well the rad/fans take heat away from the water.)

Like ranker said, you two should really stop this pissing match, and stick to the area's your good with. Ranker with high-performance parts, R1cK with the silent/aesthetic parts. Both of you have information to offer everyone, but you two need to stop turning threads into pissing matches, it doesnt help nearly as much as you could.

 

[Halk]

Registered here just to post in this thread

Got to say thanks for the thread, I've been using AquaComputer watercooling for over a couple of years now, and I've never seen it mentioned anywhere.

Can't remember exactly what made me choose AC over anything else, I think it was the built quality/appearance and the reassurance that performance was at least adequate. I like push fit, any time I've done any plumbing around the house I've used it, I much prefer it to compression, and welding is out of my reach - and I'm not aware of anyone welding in watercooling

That's certainly true, no component I've used - and I've been through several upgrades - has shown any sign of wear or tear, and it's all working very well.

I've a few gripes with it though. Every block I've bought I've had to lap until it's flat. Nobody talks about it, so I don't get to hear anything about it. The English section of their forums is a graveyard, questions are almost never answered.

As far as performance is concerned, I have 5 blocks in the system, and everything is kept reasonably cool. CPU idles at room temperature, the radiator disposes of the heat adequately. The whole thing is neat, and I've got faith it won't leak.

One thing I've always found to be lacking is comparitive reviews. Wish there were some around so I can see how the stuff I have compares to what the Americans are using.

Being in the UK the price thing isn't as apparent as it is in the US. It's just as easy/difficult to import from the US as it is from Germany.

But anyway, keep this thread going, nice to see people talking about AC.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

R1cK, question for you. Why would you enter into watercooling with just whatever companies are trying to push on you, instead of doing research in forums like this, asking other peoples opinions, and then starting your own opinions off of those? Then, once you get into it with good equipment, drawing your own conclusions from your own testing, or use, but all the while building off of the things that other people told you.

Because the answers from 90 percent of these people on this forum is one solution which is totally false. Or better yet 99 percent of the users on this forum try and comment on products they have never touched much less tried in their loop. Problem is opinions are like.......

I bet the only reason you got into AC was because someone convinced you that AC was 'better' than anything else, and you decide not to test any other solution because you dont want to spend more money on a new setup. I bet if you bought a Laing DDC, some half inch tubing, a PA120.3, and some new barbs for that D-tek, you would stop bitching about high-flow vs low flow.

I started to buy AC equipment about the same time Cathar was publicly saying watercooling has hit the performance wall a few years ago. Since all of the current blocks and pumps were so boring (and still are) I tried AC equipment. I bought it under the pretense it was something different and nobody else had really tried. What I found is all the mass hype about "buy the biggest pump and use 1/2" tubing" to be all hype. I was and still do achieve the same overclocking results but can run many blocks in the same loop. Doesn't hurt the equipment is second to none IQ wise.

FYI - here is part of my old loop so please don't insult me with your talk of trying a thermochill and pump as I have been running thermochill radiators before anyone on this forum knew of them......

Like ranker said, you two should really stop this pissing match, and stick to the area's your good with. Ranker with high-performance parts, R1cK with the silent/aesthetic parts. Both of you have information to offer everyone, but you two need to stop turning threads into pissing matches, it doesnt help nearly as much as you could.

If people would only comment on things they have tried all would be just fine. To make a non-informed performance comment is uncalled for and very narrow minded.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Performance is measured by the temperature drop. That's how I quantify performance. I guess if your preference is for an external product that sits outside your case, then so be it. But for much much less, a person can fit everything inside a case and get better performance. I guess you meant "thinking outside the box" to be taken literally. Amirite?

This is were we seem to agree to disagree. I measure performance by overclocking and silence (as most do). Now if loop A gives me 2c better temps but no addition overclocking versus loop B, which one technically gives better performance?

My preference is not an external solution but since AC decided to create such a drop dead sexy peice of equipment I bought one. Doesn't hurt that I use HSPC tech station so it must be external. I replace hardware more than most people brush their teeth so the HSPC is a must. That and I can't find a case I like at this point as they are all so boring. This is my first and most likely last external solution though.

Next up on my agenda is to get a CuplexXT with G1/4 top and run it with 3/8" tubing and high flow pump to see if I can overclock any higher.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

As far as performance is concerned, I have 5 blocks in the system, and everything is kept reasonably cool. CPU idles at room temperature, the radiator disposes of the heat adequately. The whole thing is neat, and I've got faith it won't leak.

Great post, too bad most on this forum will flame it. Your quoted comment is the one that strikes me most as no high flow loop could house that many blocks. Just another reason....

 

[Ranker]

Because the answers from 90 percent of these people on this forum is one solution which is totally false. Or better yet 99 percent of the users on this forum try and comment on products they have never touched much less tried in their loop. Problem is opinions are like.......

I think it's an insult to say those who've researched their products are ignorant or totally wrong in choosing products that have been proven as the best in their class. There are a few things that people ask for when they come to these forums. "What's the best performing loop I can build with this budget" or "What's the best radiator out there?". All you can do is answer quantitatively. "Swiftech MCR QP radiators are the best performance/price radiators on the market." "The best radiators are Thermochill PA radiators."

Silence is qualitative for the most part. What's silent for me might not be silent for you. Silence is not affected by waterblocks at all so I have no idea how you figure an AC build is "quieter" than say another brand of waterblocks. How quiet your watercooling rig is determined by your pump and your fans. Before I dropped a RD-30 in my system, my build was virtually silent (and I'm not part of any punk band that'd blow my ear drums). I use Yate Loon fans and my DDC-2's are quiet stock and even quieter when I use my mCubed BigNG to undervolt them.

I've used most components out there including "noob" ware like Koolance, Zalman, and Corsair when I first started. I moved on and expanded my horizons with lots of thorough research and spending way too much money experimenting with a multitude of equipment and blocks. I've purchased more than what's considered healthy for a hobby. I'll admit I don't own any AC blocks. However, one doesn't have to own an AC block to pass judgment on it. If under the same conditions it doesn't perform as well as another block, how on earth would I be able to recommend it for those seeking the best performance. You can't recommend an AC block for "silence" as the blocks themselves have no bearing on how silent the system is as I stated in the previous paragraph. The only other way to recommend a product that isn't "the best" is one that owns the "price/performance" crown. Unfortunately, AC is over priced in the states and approximately the same price as the best performing blocks over in Europe, so I can't make the recommendation there either. So as a person who's making objective recommendations to others who are going to be spending their money, there's no way I could ethically recommend an AC product.

I bought it under the pretense it was something different and nobody else had really tried.

I really believe that our differences lie with our approach to the situation. You're basically selling a "lifestyle" build, (what I refer to as "the Apple Marketing"). While on the other hand, I'm recommending products based on objective statistics and findings.

If people would only comment on things they have tried all would be just fine. To make a non-informed performance comment is uncalled for and very narrow minded.

How can it be narrow minded when even the makers admit their blocks do not achieve the same results as the products whom own the performance crown in their arena, nor compete on a price/performance level either.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

How can it be narrow minded when even the makers admit their blocks do not achieve the same results as the products whom own the performance crown in their arena, nor compete on a price/performance level either.

Again, define performance........ If you got the same computer performance with an AC loop as your current yet the AC loop as 2-3c higher temps, which one is better? I think you are trying too hard to imply that the lowest temps will result in the best "performance" in a computer which is not the case at all. Now throw in additional blocks without the need of additional pumps and radiators and what solution is a better value?

I will agree if temps are the only gauge of performance, then yes don't buy AC gear.

 

[ikellensbro]

Great post, too bad most on this forum will flame it. Your quoted comment is the one that strikes me most as no high flow loop could house that many blocks. Just another reason....

Sigh...
Please, explain the physics/chemistry to me as to why a "low flow" designed loop (AC,etc.) can house many blocks, while a high flow loop can't? "High flow" blocks are designed with high flow in mind, which means they not only get higher flow, in a lot (most/all?) of cases they still perform better at the same flow rates (which in a real loop wouldn't happen because the high flow block would have higher flow). A high flow loop, using a D5 or DDC instead of a DC 1046/1048, has a lot more flow and pressure. With just a CPU block in a loop, it'll have more flow. With 2 GPUs added, it'll still have higher flow than a 5, 6, 7... block low flow loop. Add an NB, SB, even ram/mosfet blocks, it'll still have more flow, and thus lower temps for each block. See a pattern? A high flow loop can handle more blocks, better than a low flow loop.

New flash: high flow loops like to have high flow rates. Adding NB/SB/ram/mosfet blocks, which provide debatable OC performance gains, will reduce CPU/GPU blocks' flow. As you like to putout, the High Flow crowd likes to value temperatures above anything else. So yes, "we" are more reluctant to add extra blocks to our loops. If we wanted, we could, and we would still have lower temperatures than a low flow loop.

Again, define performance........ If you got the same computer performance with an AC loop as your current yet the AC loop as 2-3c higher temps, which one is better? I think you are trying too hard to imply that the lowest temps will result in the best "performance" in a computer which is not the case at all. Now throw in additional blocks without the need of additional pumps and radiators and what solution is a better value?

I will agree if temps are the only gauge of performance, then yes don't buy AC gear.

One, an AC loop, by the data we have available to us, will probably be more than 2-3*C hotter, with just the same components cooled as a "normal"/high flow loop. Add in more (restrictive) blocks (and in many cases, needlessly restrictive elbows in addition to undersized tubing), and the AC loop is going to get hotter. As I said before, trying to deny this is like trying to deny the curvature of the Earth.

Yes, different components respond differently to temperature and voltage. Some do nothing, but many are able to hit higher stable OCs with a little more voltage, or a little cooler temperature. An AC loop can, in effect, be cheating you out of the potential for a free performance boost. And in the case a high flow and AC loop do indeed OC to the same levels, then by OC standards, they have the same resulting performance. Value wise, the high flow loop has a little less value than if it had a higher OC, but it most likely was significantly cheaper. $ vs. AC looks is the deciding factor in that case.

Or better yet 99 percent of the users on this forum try and comment on products they have never touched much less tried in their loop.

Yes R1ck, you like AC. No, I don't like AC. But please, use good old logic and reasoning instead of blanket statements. No, I have not personally tried a TDX/Cuplex XT/Whitewater/G4/G5/Cascade/Maze1-4 (cpu), 5002, Apogee, FuZion, TC-4, MP-5, or most other water blocks/pumps/radiators. I don't have the cash lying around to do that. But others have been able to properly test most, if not all of those, and with proper testing conditions, revealed general performance patterns. Cooling the area right above the die is what really matters, not cooling the entire base surface. Winding tube radiators cool a lot worse than heater core style radiators. Bigger tubing = higher flow = lower temperatures, every single time. No, I cannot personally test every component out there. But based on its physical design, there are plenty of similar designs with solid raw numbers to predict and thus have an opinon about real life performance.

 

[Arcygenical]

Or better yet 99 percent of the users on this forum try and comment on products they have never touched much less tried in their loop.

Ever driven a Geo Metro?

/thread.

 

[Erasmus354]

Again, define performance........ If you got the same computer performance with an AC loop as your current yet the AC loop as 2-3c higher temps, which one is better? I think you are trying too hard to imply that the lowest temps will result in the best "performance" in a computer which is not the case at all. Now throw in additional blocks without the need of additional pumps and radiators and what solution is a better value?

I will agree if temps are the only gauge of performance, then yes don't buy AC gear.

Lets turn your whole analogy around.

Have you personally tried every single CPU / Motherboard / RAM out there? Not just brands or parts, but different steppings etc.

As you should know, overclocking is not dependent solely upon the cooling but the components as well. Just because a bit better cooling does not help YOU does not mean it wont help someone else. So then how can you say that the extra cooling wont matter to an overclock? You flat out can't. The only thing to do if you want to cool for overclocking is to get the best cooling you can.

Sure if you are Mr. Money Bags McGee you could buy all the cooling solutions and pay a team of monkeys to test them all for you. Then choose based upon other criteria such as looks. Unfortunately that is not an option for most everybody who comes here asking for advice.

Any more "wise" words? Please keep in mind R1ck, this is *cooling* the metric to measure its performance is *cooling* nothing else.

 

[Halk]

Great post, too bad most on this forum will flame it. Your quoted comment is the one that strikes me most as no high flow loop could house that many blocks. Just another reason....

Frankly they can flame it all the want. Fact is that to go any higher than the overclock I have just now I have to put lots of volts into the CPU, which means a massive amount of heat from the CPU and particularly the mosfets. The AC loop disposes of the heat fine - last night I was testing the new loop under as much heat as I can produce and it copes. However, it heats the damn room up too fast. If I want to go higher I'll have to fit air conditioning, and that's something not very common in Scotland, nor would it be particularly cheap.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Any more "wise" words? Please keep in mind R1ck, this is *cooling* the metric to measure its performance is *cooling* nothing else.

My "wise" word of advice is not to water cool if "cooling" is the only metric as it doesn't cool as much as phase changing.......

Again, nobody wants to adress what loop is "better" if loop A and loop B give the same overclock yet are 2-3c off in temps. It's OK to be stuck on raw cooling but you have to ask yourself what is the point if you get no true performance (meaning processing 0's and 1's any faster) gains.

Sigh...

EXACTLY~!

Yes R1ck, you like AC. No, I don't like AC. But please, use good old logic and reasoning instead of blanket statements.

I am using personal experience, which is better than any simulated AMD XP core. If Danger Den or Swiftec equipment had to be imported from Germany nobody would like the price either......

No, I have not personally tried a TDX/Cuplex XT/Whitewater/G4/G5/Cascade/Maze1-4 (cpu), 5002, Apogee, FuZion, TC-4, MP-5, or most other water blocks/pumps/radiators.

I have and look what I went back too.........

Winding tube radiators cool a lot worse than heater core style radiators. Bigger tubing = higher flow = lower temperatures, every single time. No, I cannot personally test every component out there. But based on its physical design, there are plenty of similar designs with solid raw numbers to predict and thus have an opinon about real life performance.

Who uses winding tube radiators? That is so last year!

 

[Erasmus354]

My "wise" word of advice is not to water cool if "cooling" is the only metric as it doesn't cool as much as phase changing.......

Again, nobody wants to adress what loop is "better" if loop A and loop B give the same overclock yet are 2-3c off in temps. It's OK to be stuck on raw cooling but you have to ask yourself what is the point if you get no true performance (meaning processing 0's and 1's any faster) gains.

You still dont get it do you (or can't read).

You cannot guarantee that the difference in cooling wont make a difference in overclock until you try it. For everyone that is not a feasible option, therefore if you are watercooling for overclock alone, the choice is simple...get that which COOLS BEST. Please stop throwing around 1000$ phase change units (and ridiculous power bills for full time usage) as if it is in competition with watercooling. You might as well offer that putting your computer on the dark side of the moon and running the cables all the way back to your desk would work better.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

You still dont get it do you (or can't read).

How trust me I get it just you, like all the "1/2" is the only way" crew members, can't think outside the box.

You cannot guarantee that the difference in cooling wont make a difference in overclock until you try it.

EXACTLY so how can the "large bore boys" get a free pass to say what they want and anyone who ACTUALLY TRIES to give options gets flamed? It is easy to sit back and read a bunch of review sites all using different testing methods and draw conclusions (not to mention they are all one to three year old tests). I would much rather hear from someone using a current processor and motherboard versus reading data from an AMD XP core simulation......

But hey, continue on your crusade to try and discredit anything that isn't a) low cost and b) have a requirement of 1/2" tubing

 

[Erasmus354]

How trust me I get it just you, like all the "1/2" is the only way" crew members, can't think outside the box.



EXACTLY so how can the "large bore boys" get a free pass to say what they want and anyone who ACTUALLY TRIES to give options gets flamed? It is easy to sit back and read a bunch of review sites all using different testing methods and draw conclusions (not to mention they are all one to three year old tests). I would much rather hear from someone using a current processor and motherboard versus reading data from an AMD XP core simulation......

But hey, continue on your crusade to try and discredit anything that isn't a) low cost and b) have a requirement of 1/2" tubing

I am not discrediting your opinion, or saying that you can't offer up alternative solutions. Merely your delusion that when people are cooling for overclock...that it doesn't matter what kind of cooling you have.

PS. I own a Cuplex XT, in my loop it performed worse than (well equal to cause it was within the margin of error for my crappy sensors) than a crappy TDX. So don't try and pull that "you can't knock it til you try it" crap on me. Oh yeah, I don't use 1/2" tubing either, and the only tubing size I don't like is 6mm because I believe it is a pointless source of needless restriction..... or does my opinion not count for anything?

 

[Ranker]

Again, nobody wants to adress what loop is "better" if loop A and loop B give the same overclock yet are 2-3c off in temps. It's OK to be stuck on raw cooling but you have to ask yourself what is the point if you get no true performance (meaning processing 0's and 1's any faster) gains.

You keep throwing this "2-3C' number around repeatedly. No one believes you that a complete AC build is anywhere within 2-3C of a build consisting of Thermochill radiators, DDC-2 pumps, Swiftech/D-Tek/EK blocks. The number is going to be larger than that, so you can throw that "2-3C" mantra being repeated by the AC fanboys and their marketing people right out the window where it belongs.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

PS. I own a Cuplex XT, in my loop it performed worse than (well equal to cause it was within the margin of error for my crappy sensors) than a crappy TDX.

Loop or computer? Also how many times did you mount the block to ensure you got a good bond? Funny thing is I don't even run a Cuplex XT so what does that say? There is a way to blend parts from several differnt manufactures and get great results. Doesn't mean it has to be 1/2" based....

You keep throwing this "2-3C' number around repeatedly. No one believes you that a complete AC build is anywhere within 2-3C of a build consisting of Thermochill radiators, DDC-2 pumps, Swiftech/D-Tek/EK blocks. The number is going to be larger than that, so you can throw that "2-3C" mantra being repeated by the AC fanboys and their marketing people right out the window where it belongs.

Again, you won't address the question but that is fine. Your like a broken record man... Look at all your posts and they are the same. You just made it to my ignore list so I suggest you do the same, moving forward. I'll keep your sweet post in my sig file so I can remember what you are about.

 

[Aqua-Pcs]

You keep throwing this "2-3C' number around repeatedly. No one believes you that a complete AC build is anywhere within 2-3C of a build consisting of Thermochill radiators, DDC-2 pumps, Swiftech/D-Tek/EK blocks. The number is going to be larger than that, so you can throw that "2-3C" mantra being repeated by the AC fanboys and their marketing people right out the window where it belongs.

Ranker - do us all a favour get Sharka on the phone and buy an AC kit, then actually have some experience of it and test your self.

Then come back to the thread an offer your experiences, test results and pros and cons.

Also if we are "Fan Boys" (and Girls ) I suppose that makes you a "Size Queen" then. Im pretty sure you don’t like the idea of being called that so stop calling anyone who show the smallest interest in AC a "Fan Boy"

Another thing is that if AC is sooooooooo bad, expensive etc why do so many people buy it? If you want to know the facts we are the largest buyer of EK blocks in the UK and we have still sold more Aqua-Computer 8800GTX's then EK 8800GTX's and that is a FACT. Another FACT is these companies are still here because people like and buy there products so no amount of kicking and screaming by you is going to stop the blocks selling and this is the same with all the ½” – please just deal with it

If you would like to show more of a mature interest in getting some real feed back / test results you will be glad to know that Aqua-Pc's is in the process of sending one of every water cooling kit we stock including AC, D-tek, EK, Flow ETC for a feature in a national magazine and review on an international review website to prove what kit is better for what purpose.

</FLAME>

 

[Ranker]

Loop or computer? Also how many times did you mount the block to ensure you got a good bond? Funny thing is I don't even run a Cuplex XT so what does that say? There is a way to blend parts from several differnt manufactures and get great results. Doesn't mean it has to be 1/2" based....



Again, you won't address the question but that is fine. Your like a broken record man... Look at all your posts and they are the same. You just made it to my ignore list so I suggest you do the same, moving forward. I'll keep your sweet post in my sig file so I can remember what you are about.

I'm addressing a claim you're making based upon this critically, fundamentally flawed assumption. If your assumption is grossly flawed, then your whole argument bears no merit. Even if you're misguided assumption were to be correct, Erasmus, ikellensbro, Arcygenical and others have addressed it and proven your claim to be wrong.

I guess it's better to dig one's head in the sand and ignore the voices of reason in this thread than to face the facts that many here have presented.

We all have a brain fart here and there and like I mentioned subsequently in that very thread, I was making a post about graphics cards while switching between this forum. I'm even man enough to not go back and edit it as I found it humorous myself. Keep that "sweet post" of mine if it makes you feel better about yourself. I won't need a post to remember how severely misguided you are and your fanboyism.

 

[Ranker]

Ranker - do us all a favour get Sharka on the phone and buy an AC kit, then actually have some experience of it and test your self.

Then come back to the thread an offer your experiences, test results and pros and cons.

I believe Erasmus and Ikellensbro succinctly answered the "you never bought it, so you can't say anything about it" mantra that's being repeated over and over again. From available data, user experience, and even company representatives stating that AC products will not achieve the same temps as a PA/Laing/D-Tek combo. Therefore one can't recommend those products based upon performance alone nor in the price/performance category.

Also if we are "Fan Boys" (and Girls ) I suppose that makes you a "Size Queen" then. Im pretty sure you don&#8217;t like the idea of being called that so stop calling anyone who show the smallest interest in AC a "Fan Boy"

Call me a size queen if you wish, but you don't see me pushing 1/2" tubing anywhere in this thread. My personal reasoning for not being able to recommend AC products has less to do with the size tubing used, but more so with its overpriced nature, it's use of Alu on some its blocks, and the lack of performance when compared to something that can be purchased for less money.

Another thing is that if AC is sooooooooo bad, expensive etc why do so many people buy it? If you want to know the facts we are the largest buyer of EK blocks in the UK and we have still sold more Aqua-Computer 8800GTX's then EK 8800GTX's and that is a FACT. Another FACT is these companies are still here because people like and buy there products so no amount of kicking and screaming by you is going to stop the blocks selling and this is the same with all the ½&#8221; &#8211; please just deal with it

That may be true for you. But over here in the states, you can't even find any in stock at all because they sell out within a day or two. Even bulk orders of 50 EK FC blocks sent to various stores like Petras or Jab-tech will sell out immediately. Eddie has even admitted publicly towards having difficulty keeping stock of his blocks at US resellers as they sell out so quickly. It's come to the point where you prey on those desperate enough over on XS forums to pay that extra "surcharge" you like to tack on to ship over to the US. 40 pound quote to ship to the US and you can only say it will get there in 1-2 weeks?

I have no problems with people buying AC blocks. I do have a problem with the fanboyism that states AC is the best, "2-3C doesn't matter", using ALU is ok, etc and using such FUD to recommend it to others who are seeking objective advice.

If you would like to show more of a mature interest in getting some real feed back / test results you will be glad to know that Aqua-Pc's is in the process of sending one of every water cooling kit we stock including AC, D-tek, EK, Flow ETC for a feature in a national magazine and review on an international review website to prove what kit is better for what purpose.

</FLAME>

I'm sure that there will be no bias for the reviewer given the points that you're supplying them products for free of charge and that you admit towards pushing AC products as your main source of livelihood.

 

[Top Nurse]

You keep throwing this "2-3C' number around repeatedly. No one believes you that a complete AC build is anywhere within 2-3C of a build consisting of Thermochill radiators, DDC-2 pumps, Swiftech/D-Tek/EK blocks. The number is going to be larger than that, so you can throw that "2-3C" mantra being repeated by the AC fanboys and their marketing people right out the window where it belongs.

Tag team time

I believe...

Let the flames begin.