Aqua Computer or Dtek

[Narisatu]

Alright, im building a new computer setup for school. Watercooling is on the top of my list of things to do, Im actually going to be buying the case and cooling stuff before the hardware. Now, my problem is, what to go with. I have setup two different systems, pretty much, and cant decide which one to use. Either Aqua Computer (all AC components) or a Dtek CPU+GPU and a chipset cooler of some kind.

Lets get right down to it, here are the common peices

Aquero LT
Multiswitch
a pair of Thermochill 120.3 (two loops, one of each block on each loop)

Im using AC to control things, becuase of the Aquasuite, which, from what i have seen will allow me to control two loops. Ill be using an add-on for my G15 to put the information normally on the Aquero screen on the LCD on the G15

Here is the AC list of components
Cuplex XT or XT DI (need to see performance specs) (probably 2, if Phenom FX is as good as rumor)
twinplex x2 w/swiftechs 8800kit or aquagrafx 8800gtx
twinplex XT for chipsets
2x Aquastreams w/controller

The Dtek List
Dual FuZion cpu
Dual FuZion gpu
Swiftech chipset cooler
2 Laing DDC 2/petra's top

If i go AC, i will probably end up getting 2 aquabays as well, with the mounts for the aqua streams
If Dtek, not sure what im doing for Res yet.

I will be overclocking, mildly, so im not too concerned about top performance
computer specs will be whatever is top in the fall (so probably dual phenom FX with a pair of 8800gtx or 8900gtx if a refresh is released by then. Quad FX also means dual chipsets to cool)

Thanks for the help in advance, feel free to make suggestions on loops, and definatly comment on which you would go with, and why (besides the tubing size difference)

 

[Ranker]

Price alone would warrant the D-tek/Swiftech combo. D-Tek and Swifftech are known to provide excellent support for future motherboards with mounting hardware so they'll provide you with some comfort that you'll be able to resuse your blocks in the future. The same can't be said about the other option.

The XT-DI also looks like a flow killer. It's design is very similar to the Swiftech Storm 2. You'd most likely have to split it into its own loop if you'd want decent performance.

I personally would choose the 2nd option. There's a reason why the hardcore community embraces D-Tek, Swiftech, Ek. They provide excellent performance and excellent support at reasonable prices.

 

[Shoggy]

Price alone would warrant the D-tek/Swiftech combo. D-Tek and Swifftech are known to provide excellent support for future motherboards with mounting hardware so they'll provide you with some comfort that you'll be able to resuse your blocks in the future. The same can't be said about the other option.

Errr...?! AC offers conversion kits for all their blocks.
Even their first cooler (over 5 years old now) can be used on all current sockets.

 

[FatboyHK]

lol, we have a crash of titans here between Swiftech's fanatic (Ranker) and AC's deadhard (Shoggy)

 

[Dark Prodigy]

There's no other watercooling components on the market that offers the level of control Aqua Computer does. Stylish and super functional hardware they have. However, You do not necessarily have to choose between the two - AC & D-tek.

I understand you want consistency with the products, and only want to use like branded components, but you can simply use both. You don't necessarily have to use AC control hardware with AC waterblocks. Fittings are universal, and even the Aquastream comes with G1/4 thread, not to mention you can get the Aquatube with G1/4 thread as well.

If you want hardcore performance with D-Tek blocks and Aqua Computer level control, you can have it. Its your PC, make it how you want.

 

[Ranker]

lol, we have a crash of titans here between Swiftech's fanatic (Ranker) and AC's deadhard (Shoggy)

I'm a fanatic for anything that offers the best performance. Currently D-Tek, Swiftech, EK, Laing, and Thermochill own the performance crowns in their respective areas. You'll never see AC mentioned in the performance arena. They make some pretty blocks, but if I'm going to go with looks, I'll stick with EK blocks that offer looks with a minimal performance hit. You'll notice me bash on Swiftech occasionally as their chrome fittings aren't up to par with D-Tek's or EK's. I really don't root for a specific company as the size of my penis isn't directly tied to any single product.

AC offers some nice control units which I think is probably the best thing out of all the things they put out. However, my preference points me towards the mCubed line up with the BigNG, MiniNG, and Sensorbus combo. However, in this arena, there really isn't a performance benefit so the difference between the two comes down to personal preference.

 

[Bio-Hazard]

QFT............

 

[Aqua-Pcs]

My vote would have to be Aqua-Computer putting a block side by side AC wins all the way and you get more fuctionality out of the AC products being able to control everything is great

 

[Ranker]

My vote would have to be Aqua-Computer putting a block side by side AC wins all the way and you get more fuctionality out of the AC products being able to control everything is great

Then I hope you'd stop making serious recommendations for water cooling in these forums. There's not one legitimate review site out there that would put the performance of an Aqua-Computer waterblock over that of D-Tek Fuzion or Apogee GTX. I'd suggest we put aside the FUD. AC products look nice and offer nice ACCESSORIES, but they are by no means competitive in the performance sector. You must belong to the Apple Computers method of thinking; "if it's aesthetically pleasing, it must be better!" =P

I'm also not sure where you get "more functionality" from. It's either watercooled or it isn't. It either performs well or it doesn't. I suggest you head over to xtremesystems and make these claims about how AC products top all others.

 

[Aqua-Pcs]

Thanks for your opinion Ranker but im pretty sure I didn't say that the Aqua-Computer blocks performed better then Fusion. What im saying from my experience as a retailer dealing with the blocks in question every day is that if you put a Cuplex XT next to a Fusion the Cuplex stands out more for design and quality. The Fusion will be a degree or two cooler then Cuplex agreed but if you read the first post you would have noticed the following:

I will be overclocking, mildly, so im not too concerned about top performance

AC would also be a good choice in that matter as all the components will integrate with the aquaero and muiltiswitch mentioned whereas the D-tek products will not.

 

[Dark Prodigy]

I suggest you head over to xtremesystems and make these claims about how AC products top all others.

I've read alot of your posts, especially in the 2900xt thread & in this watercooling forum, and you make alot of references to xtremesystems. I like xtremesystems.org, its alot like [H] in many ways, but I can guarantee you that the majority of people here in [H] can really give a damn about what's going on over there or how you guys 'do it'. If you appreciate them and that particular community so much, then why be here?

That said, why not simply be an asset to these forums and offer some personal knowledge and insight (which you have been doing somewhat) and leave xtremesystems.org over in xtremesystems.org. This is not even close to a flame, just some friendly advice.

 

[Ranker]

Thanks for your opinion Ranker but im pretty sure I didn't say that the Aqua-Computer blocks performed better then Fusion. What im saying from my experience as a retailer dealing with the blocks in question every day is that if you put a Cuplex XT next to a Fusion the Cuplex stands out more for design and quality. The Fusion will be a degree or two cooler then Cuplex agreed but if you read the first post you would have noticed the following:



AC would also be a good choice in that matter as all the components will integrate with the aquaero and muiltiswitch mentioned whereas the D-tek products will not.

I don't understand how monitoring hardware and software can be tied to the blocks themselves when they're totally separate components. I think AC makes wonderful accessories with the Aquero, multiswitch and Aquastream. However they're not tied with block performance at all.

A watercooling loop will run perfectly without those products. A similar line of products would be mCubed's BigNG, MiniNG, and Sensorbus. Either of these two lines of accessories can be integrated into D-Tek line of products or AC line of products. They're both no built solely and exclusively for one line. Hence, these accessories have no bearing on what one should buy for a solid, tested, top performing, well reviewed water cooling loop.

I

 

[Ranker]

I've read alot of your posts, especially in the 2900xt thread & in this watercooling forum, and you make alot of references to xtremesystems. I like xtremesystems.org, its alot like [H] in many ways, but I can guarantee you that the majority of people here in [H] can really give a damn about what's going on over there or how you guys 'do it'. If you appreciate them and that particular community so much, then why be here?

That said, why not simply be an asset to these forums and offer some personal knowledge and insight (which you have been doing somewhat) and leave xtremesystems.org over in xtremesystems.org. This is not even close to a flame, just some friendly advice.

Because I enjoy certain aspects of the community over here as well. The only difference is that those over on xtremesystems are more likely to run tests and provide results that can back up or disprove claims and theories. Having a large amount of data to work with gives oneself better ground to make educated and substantiated recommendations. In addition, many of the manufacturers and retailers will battle and introduce their products over on those forums. They'll provide testing data and give the users the means towards validating them.

I reference data and user experience to offer a ways of substantiating my own and other people's recommendations. There's nothing more annoying then someone who makes a claim and has no experience, nor actual data to prove his claims.

 

[Narisatu]

To stop the price issue, well, for me, it isnt. I do want the better performance, and looks, the only thing i really want is control, if i can use AC monitoring/control components with Dtek/EK/Swiftec, then thats great, because then I can do what i really want to do, which is a high flow system with complete control.

Now, as to the controlling part.. does either the mcubed products, or the AC products allow for control of two loops, independently?

 

[joecop120]

Stylish and super functional hardware they have.

i think yoda said that too...

 

[Ranker]

To stop the price issue, well, for me, it isnt. I do want the better performance, and looks, the only thing i really want is control, if i can use AC monitoring/control components with Dtek/EK/Swiftec, then thats great, because then I can do what i really want to do, which is a high flow system with complete control.

Now, as to the controlling part.. does either the mcubed products, or the AC products allow for control of two loops, independently?

The BigNG and MiniNG combo will let you control up to 3 pumps and control them independently either through software or hardware (jumpers/potentiometer). You can even set them to either PWN mode or pure analogue mode (best for pumps) independently as well.

Before upgrading to an Iwaki pump, I was running 3 DDC-2's with Petra's top. I have 1 BigNG, 2 miniNG's, and 1 Sensorbus. I dedicated the BigNG to controlling the CPU pump as well as the fans for the case and the radiator dedicated to my CPU. I have it set in software to step up fan speeds as I cross temperature thresholds. Fans are on low speed at 35C and below, medium speed at 40C, and max speed at 50C and above.

One miniNG controls the pump for my GFX loop as well as the fans attached to the radiator for it. I have a similar stepping for temperatures vs fan speed. My other miniNG does the same for my chipset pump/radiator fans.

My sensorbus collects all temperatures and performs and hard shutdown (as in power switch activated) in case any pump dies or the temps cross a certain threshold, which is set independently for each temp gauge (CPU = 75C, GPU = 80C, GPU 2= 80C, NB = 70C, SB = 70C). The good thing about a hard shutdown is that sometimes windows can lock up and prevent a software initiated shutdown. It gives me piece of mind in case a pump dies or there's a leak resulting in less flow.

 

[FatboyHK]

abit OT, i am quite interest to see your 3-loop setup, any photo to share?

I have only learn about T-balancer's product recently. But not before I have already ordered a full set of Aquaero kit... What I will miss?

 

[Ranker]

abit OT, i am quite interest to see your 3-loop setup, any photo to share?

I have only learn about T-balancer's product recently. But not before I have already ordered a full set of Aquaero kit... What I will miss?

I'm not sure what you'll miss with the Aquaero kit as I only know of a few people that have one. I imagine it does something similar. I explored both but I fell in love with the software control offered by the mCubed line. As an engineer grad, being able to manipulate power/temp curves with monitoring software really sold me. While the Aquaero kit comes built in with an LCD, the mCubed line will work with most of the LCD's out on the market giving YOU the option of what LCD you want. It works with the following plugins: iMON VFD, LCDC, and JaLCD. A lot of people have coupled it with the Matrix Orbital LCD's. In the end, I think its just a matter of preference. mCubed is an Austrian company I believe. Here's their website: http://www.t-balancer.com/english/index.htm and their store: http://www.mcubed-store.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1. Their entire line is also carried by Performance-pcs.com.
A review can be found here: http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=1&artpage=2229&articID=533

I'll get photos up shortly once I'm satisfied with my complete my current rebuild. I'm dissembling my loop once again to put back in my EK FC blocks and a new set of EK NF4 1.1 and EK evga 680i blocks. I'm also trying to figure out a way to work in a few new waterblocks I just purchased for my HD's. I just bought the following waterblocks just today:
2x http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ucts_id=4569:28a4fb812697faf408509b304a0ebaf4

1x http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ucts_id=4520:8f15f6961770c1566839f2893ab55ef1

1x http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ucts_id=3656:acfb54d031d316ad968d79844643c7c0

I'll probably end up returning one of the 5-1/4" bay ones. Depending on whether I can make all of that fit.

 

[FatboyHK]

is software required as a bridge for the integration between T-Balnacer and those LCD Display?

 

[Ranker]

is software required as a bridge for the integration between T-Balnacer and those LCD Display?

Yes, the LCD software has a plugin that will interact with the mCubed software.

 

[FatboyHK]

then at least Aquaero has an advantage of being a self-contained device that all of it functions, even its display, requires no software

But indeed, only the emergency shutdown feature requires a pure hardware implementation. all other feature can be implemented in software with virtually no drawback. As I see T-Balancer's emergency shutdown is done with hardware, so there is no issue (pls correct me if I am wrong)

 

[Ranker]

then at least Aquaero has an advantage of being a self-contained device that all of it functions, even its display, requires no software

But indeed, only the emergency shutdown feature requires a pure hardware implementation. all other feature can be implemented in software with virtually no drawback. As I see T-Balancer's emergency shutdown is done with hardware, so there is no issue (pls correct me if I am wrong)

I'm not sure what the disadvantage is other than possibly the lack of an integrated LCD. With jumpers and the potentiometer you can set your system to run in hardware mode as well as or instead of software mode. I have my system setup so that it boots in hardware mode, once windows boots up, the software takes over, and then in the event of software malfunctions, the hardware takes over. If you choose, you could have it run strictly from hardware through jumper/potentiometer settings.

I've owned a few LCD's but I've found them to be blingy but useless. I'll never be staring at my computer as it's in the corner. Unless you keep your computer on the top of your desk where the LCD is eye level, it's usefulness is severely limited. It's nice to have software and widgets that can be accessed on screen. I have the mini widget on my 2ndary monitor so I can always see what's going on: everything from RPM curves, temperature curves, temp listings and so on. But this is a preference, so too each their own. =)

The shutdown feature is implemented in software and hardware. The mCubed software will trigger a shutdown or whatever action you please if whatever variable you're choosing is met/exceeded. If my temps get too high, I have it play the wave file of the hip-hop song "It's getting hot in hea'" and send me an email/SMS to my phone. After a certain threshold, it will perform a windows shutdown. The hardware sensors will perform a hardware shutdown if the settings exceed whatever constant is stored for a given variable. You'll have two layers of protection: 1) a Windows action or shutdown, giving you the opportunity to perform a clean shutdown without loss of data and 2) a hardware shutdown in case windows hangs or the software fails.

Btw, there's nothing that stipulates both can't coexist with each other. If you like some of the features, I suggest you purchase it as well.

 

[Narisatu]

I was looking around at FC blocks for 8800s anyone know if the Alphacool block is any good? It is small enough to be able to use the PCI slots beside it, but so is the dangerden, and i havent heard much good about that block. Also, anyone know if the AC part for the 8800 will allow the use of the pci slot next to it.

and last question, in comparison, which pump is better, and Ehiem 1046, or a DDC w/Alphacool or petra's top?

 

[Ranker]

Both the DD and the EK block won't let you use the PCI slot underneath it. However, they'll let you use the one above. I've never owned the Alphacool one, but out of the two FC blocks I own, the EK is far superior. It also seems to be the hottest selling GPU block atm as well. You can't find it in stock anywhere.

 

[FatboyHK]

alphacool's new 8800 block is the thinnest of them all, and yes you can use the PCI slot next to it. But I am not sure about it performance....

 

[Top Nurse]

Then I hope you'd stop making serious recommendations for water cooling in these forums. There's not one legitimate review site out there...

Legitimate? How do you define legitimate? Only if it applies to your own ethnocentric parameters?

 

[Top Nurse]

First of all why are we discussing the issues of a LCD here? The OP said he was planning on using an Aquaero LT. The LT version does not come with a LCD...

As far as the Aquaero goes a picture is worth a thousand words. So here are the pics for the Aquaero. Please not that not all Aquaero screens are shown due to brevity.

Where are the pics for the other mentioned controllers?

 

[Arcygenical]

My god I want one of those

 

[Shoggy]

Top Nurse, it seems that you are using an older version

The current version looks like this:

 

[Top Nurse]

My god I want one of those

If you want to go bigger is better tubing you can also get the 3rd party T's and water sensors for just about any size you might contemplate. Also the fan headers can take a maximum of 5 watts each. I have three Papst 120mm fans (.71 Watt/fan) wired in parallel on Feeding Frenzy Interlude. One header uses one fan's RPM sensor to control the whole array. Thus you don't need a lot of fan headers to get the job done. If you want you can also convert the #4 fan header into a second flow meter header.

 

[Top Nurse]

Top Nurse, it seems that you are using an older version

So where do I get the newer version? BTW, what is the best version of .net framework to be using?

 

[Ranker]

Where are the pics for the other mentioned controllers?

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=3&artpage=2232&articID=533

Provides plenty of pics although not all the tabs. Once I get my machine reassembled and back up I'll provide my own personal pics of how it looks on my desktop, the mini gadgets (for those of us who prefer not having to look at an entire screen), as well as all the other tabs not shown on that review.

Legitimate? How do you define legitimate? Only if it applies to your own ethnocentric parameters?

Find me a few well known review site that has the D-Tek FuZion or Apogee GTX being beaten by any AC cpu block.

 

[Shoggy]

So where do I get the newer version?

click

Ranker, your pics show only a "don't steal message"

 

[Ranker]

click

Ranker, your pics show only a "don't steal message"

Click on the link for the review to see the pics then.

 

[Top Nurse]

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=3&artpage=2232&articID=533

Provides plenty of pics although not all the tabs. Once I get my machine reassembled and back up I'll provide my own personal pics of how it looks on my desktop, the mini gadgets (for those of us who prefer not having to look at an entire screen), as well as all the other tabs not shown on that review.

Notice you get to set individual pump/fan speed based upon a temperature threshold (or any other variable) for any given sensor.

Interesting that you would choose a review site for the T-Balancer that is directly similar to what you decry about Aqua Computer reviewed sites.

P.S. It's not nice to steal bandwidth...

 

[Ranker]

Interesting that you would choose a review site for the T-Balancer that is directly similar to what you decry about Aqua Computer reviewed sites.

P.S. It's not nice to steal bandwidth...

It's nice to know that the size of your penis is directly affected by a specific line of products. Give it a rest already. It seems a small minority here are fanboys of AC products and the call to arms is sounded whenever anything is recommended besides their product.

This has nothing to do with AC rather than providing pictures and reviews to someone who asked about the Mcubed product. So please, feel reassured that your manhood was not meant to be threatened. So can we be finished with the cock waving? The last thing the OP needs is a "who can piss further contest".

It's about time we get back to discussing things relevant to the OP. My challenge remains the same, find a well established review site that conducts objective testing for performance that puts the AC cpu block ahead of either the D-Tek Fuzion or the Apogee GTX.

 

[Bio-Hazard]

It's nice to know that the size of your penis is directly affected by a specific line of products. Give it a rest already. It seems a small minority here are fanboys of AC products and the call to arms is sounded whenever anything is recommended besides their product.

This has nothing to do with AC rather than providing pictures and reviews to someone who asked about the Mcubed product. So please, feel reassured that your manhood was not meant to be threatened. So can we be finished with the cock waving? The last thing the OP needs is a "who can piss further contest".

It's about time we get back to discussing things relevant to the OP. My challenge remains the same, find a well established review site that conducts objective testing for performance that puts the AC cpu block ahead of either the D-Tek Fuzion or the Apogee GTX.

He is a she and a die hard AC fan girl ......... It doesn't pay to argue with her even if she can't compete................

 

[Top Nurse]

It's nice to know that the size of your penis is directly affected by a specific line of products. Give it a rest already. It seems a small minority here are fanboys of AC products and the call to arms is sounded whenever anything is recommended besides their product.

This has nothing to do with AC rather than providing pictures and reviews to someone who asked about the Mcubed product. So please, feel reassured that your manhood was not meant to be threatened. So can we be finished with the cock waving? The last thing the OP needs is a "who can piss further contest".

It's about time we get back to discussing things relevant to the OP. My challenge remains the same, find a well established review site that conducts objective testing that puts the AC cpu block ahead of either the D-Tek Fuzion or the Apogee GTX.

Sorry, but this girl has no need for a penis except for making fun (and of).

I'm sure there is no such site available because the "Double Impact" Cuplex XT or the Cuplex XT G 1/4 hasn't finished production yet. My inference was that all those "Big is Better" fan boys always point out that the AC reviews are bunk because they are written in either a foreign language or on another continent. Thus my ethnocentric remark.

So as I have pointed out you are bashing AC products with no real experience with them. Get some experience and then come back and tell us all about it. The M-Cubed design looks okay to me, but it doesn't fit my hardware profile or future profile. I intend to run both an Aquastream and DDC pumps in the same box and be able to utilize the same Aquasuite software to control it all. That also means the ability to under or over clock the pumps.

 

[Ranker]

He is a she and a die hard AC fan girl ......... It doesn't pay to argue with her even if she can't compete................

That's the problem. Being a fanboy/fangirl is nothing to be proud of. It just reeks of ignorance. People are asking for legitimate advice and instead of providing them with what is proven, a personal preference is pushed upon them. I have a preference for GPU only blocks, RD-30 pumps, and Thermochill radiators. However, you'll see me recommend FC blocks, DDC-2/D5/Aquaextreme pumps, and Swiftech radiators as well. This "AC or BUST" mentality being propagated by a certain few reminds me starkly of Apple's brainwashing campaign. No performance results are provided yet claims are made "it's better" or "it's better because it looks different!".

I'm sure there is no such site available because the "Double Impact" Cuplex XT or the Cuplex XT G 1/4 hasn't finished production yet. My inference was that all those "Big is Better" fan boys always point out that the AC reviews are bunk because they are written in either a foreign language or on another continent. Thus my ethnocentric remark.

Then why are you even trying to compare something that hasn't been finished and is hence useless to this conversation then? There's no problem with reviews of different languages, as long as the reviews are done objectively by a reputable site within the watercooling community. As of current time, AC does not have a CPU block that is competitive with those made by D-Tek or Swiftech.

The M-Cubed design looks okay to me, but it doesn't fit my hardware profile or future profile. I intend to run both an Aquastream and DDC pumps in the same box and be able to utilize the same Aquasuite software to control it all. That also means the ability to under or over clock the pumps.

And you assume that the mCubed line can't do the same in terms of pump control?

I suggest you put the pom-poms down and be more objective. If someone asks for pure aesthetics, then there'd be no problems with recommending AC products, EK products, etc.

 

[Top Nurse]

That's the problem. Being a fanboy/fangirl is nothing to be proud of. It just reeks of ignorance. People are asking for legitimate advice and instead of providing them with what is proven, a personal preference is pushed upon them. I have a preference for GPU only blocks, RD-30 pumps, and Thermochill radiators. However, you'll see me recommend FC blocks, DDC-2/D5/Aquaextreme pumps, and Swiftech radiators as well. This "AC or BUST" mentality being propagated by a certain few reminds me starkly of Apple's brainwashing campaign. No performance results are provided yet claims are made "it's better" or "it's better because it looks different!".

I have never said I was a Fan Girl and in fact I'm building a new rig (for a nephew) that encompasses Swiftech, EK, and Laing products at his request. AC generally recommends their full cover blocks, but I generally go for GPU only blocks. BTW, a lot of my family have Apple computers and while they take a little getting used to they have a lot less problems than PC's.

Then why are you even trying to compare something that hasn't been finished and is hence useless to this conversation then?

Because the OP mentioned they were thinking about them.

And you assume that the mCubed line can't do the same in terms of pump control?

Can the M-Cubed line control and OC both AC and DC pumps? The Aquastream is an AC pump that can have it's output changed by changing the hertz of the AC power.

I suggest you put the pom-poms down and be more objective. If someone asks for pure aesthetics, then there'd be no problems with recommending AC products, EK products, etc.

Sorry, but no pom-poms either. When all my friends were doing that kind of stuff I was doing mad scientist work in the science lab.