AMD ReLive versus NVIDIA ShadowPlay Performance

Discussion in 'Video Cards' started by Kyle_Bennett, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    AMD ReLive versus NVIDIA ShadowPlay Performance

    We take AMD ReLive in the AMD Radeon Software Adrenalin Edition and NVIDIA ShadowPlay as part of GeForce Experience and find out which one is more FPS and CPU-efficient for recording games while gaming. We will compare features, specifications, and find out overall which better suits content creators for recording gameplay on AMD and NVIDIA GPUs.
     
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  2. noko

    noko 2[H]4U

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    Great review! Also nice seeing RTG taking the software side very serious. While I don't use these features much I did like Relive better than ShadowPlay and definitely do not like Geforce Spamming Experience. UI wise I just fine RTG drivers superior over Nvidia.
     
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  3. DarkStryke

    DarkStryke [H]ard|Gawd

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    Shadowplay was great before the forced account bullshit of GFE.
     
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  4. Bahanime

    Bahanime Limp Gawd

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    No mention of the data logging that runs in the background for GFE? Telemetry of gameplay data & habits, sent straight to NVIDIA.

    Under their privacy EULA clause, they are allowed to share all of the collected data with their partners.
     
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  5. Semantics

    Semantics 2[H]4U

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    Nvidia is NVENC
    [​IMG]
    https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-video-codec-sdk
    Still find it baffling that Nvidia doesn't support HEVC for shadowplay, it's built into their chips. Even though no streaming service takes HEVC shadowplay is more than just a streaming program.


    AMD is under VCE 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.4, 4.0 similar to nvidia different gpu generations have different levels of feature support but they don't have a nice little infographic, in fact it's quite difficult to find any hardware specific documentation to copy-pasta. HEVC support was added starting with VCE 3.4
    VCE1.0 ARUBA (Trinity/Richland), CAPE VERDE, PITCAIRN, TAHITI, OLAND
    VCE2.0 KAVERI, KABINI, MULLINS, BONAIRE, HAWAII
    VCE3.0 TONGA, FIJI
    VCE3.1 CARRIZO
    VCE3.4 STONEY, POLARIS10, POLARIS11, POLARIS12
    VCE4.0 VEGA10

    You can get similar performance with w.e features you want out of 3rd party software as long as they're written to work with NVENC and/or AMD AMF(VCE). Each generation btw is known to produce different image quality results at the same bitrate.
     
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  6. Streetguru

    Streetguru n00bie

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    Can you guys test low end cards next RX 560(1024)/1050 ? Perhaps doing dota 2 as it's lighter on the GPU.

    I think it'll be especially prevalent for when the desktop APUs come out.See if you can do good esports streaming on a lower budget and what not.

    Would also like to see a quick revisit in an easy 4k title like dota 2 for the higher end cards, that way it's not just hammered to 24fps


    I also think it's highly important to upload the output video files for each setting to a mega link or something so we can view what the end product looks like
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  7. drzoidberg33

    drzoidberg33 n00bie

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    Could you comment on the quality of the output files too? I recently moved from an AMD card to a 1080Ti and I find the output files from ShadowPlay very difficult to work with (audio sync issues) and they're often corrupt, to a point where I don't even bother using it anymore.
     
  8. geok1ng

    geok1ng [H]ard|Gawd

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  9. Nolan7689

    Nolan7689 Gawd

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  10. Brent_Justice

    Brent_Justice [H] Video Card Managing Editor Staff Member

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  11. ole-m

    ole-m Limp Gawd

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    This may be true and not true, depends on the music, compression, compression method and so on and so on.
    320kbps is where I start to be really happy and confident as I often hear differences, I do not have much insight to how the files were produced but the same source was used.
    I can usually live with 192kbps but if I actively Listen then there's a difference.

    In games 60fps and 120fps and so on may feel the same depending on the engine, many can feel their input being off by decreasing fps as the game engine pulls input and network traffic every frame while others do it outside that loop thus creating different behavior as some games feel sluggish at 60 fps and some feels perfectly fluid.
    As for those games that have it outside the loops or some other method people struggle but in games where it's in the loop they use a mere second or two to identify it.
     
  12. Dave65

    Dave65 Gawd

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    How do these compare with OBS?
     
  13. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's a whole new can of worms waiting to be opended, but I won't go there.

    What I can say is that there is a point in AAC audio streams where increased bit rate won't give you a perceivable better audio quality and its generally accepted that 192kbps is the best audio quality for stereo streams. Anything more and you are just wasting space.
     
  14. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

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    OBS > relive/shadow play if you're a daily streamer.. relive and shadow play are good for casual streamers or just want to quickly stream for friends but OBS does everything relive does plus way more.

    either way i'd rather have the option to set it to what i want vs software deciding what it should be at on it's own.
     
  15. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Considering how much longer NVIDIA has been working on ShadowPlay, I'm impressed that AMD's already not only reached feature parity, but surpassed NVIDIA in many regards. The performance difference is pretty negligible.

    To echo the point another poster made above, I would be interested to see these same comparisons with something like a GTX 1050 or 1060 vs the AMD equivalent - RX 580 or 570? A lot of the streaming community are gamers without big powerful rigs, so that would probably hit a wider audience :)

    Great article. I like this type of content.
     
  16. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well, I agree; but I was just pointing out that there's a point of diminishing returns once you go past a certain bit rate.
     
  17. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's what happens where there's no competition. I mean, nvidia had no incentive to improve shadowplay, but now I'm sure they will intoduce new features and match/surpass ReLive.
     
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  18. Brent_Justice

    Brent_Justice [H] Video Card Managing Editor Staff Member

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    R.E., Audio Bitrate options, Point is, content creators want the highest quality possible, the highest data quality, and then edit down what they need. You can always downward compress audio, but you can't go the other way post-recording.

    I know for a fact microphone quality is of paramount importance.

    There are people who claim they can tell the difference between compressed and lossless audio.

    I'd rather have the option of a custom bitrate, with optional higher bitrate, than not have the option to change it at all. That, puts ReLive, ahead of ShadowPlay, in that department.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  19. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    Are those the same people that claim that Vynil sounds better than lossless digital? :D:D
     
  20. Froozeball

    Froozeball n00bie

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    Agreed!
    The Account BS was a turn off. Better ways to drive people to a membership scheme IMHO.
     
  21. Froozeball

    Froozeball n00bie

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    Frankly most major 'improvements' in the GF UI were a turn off.
    I still use GF 2.0 - anything below 3.0 is best.
    3.0 and above is when Nvidia 'jumped the shark' on me.

    I like the simpler features from earlier versions - items out and easy to find with a more or less cohesive design. Nothing fancy but why did we 'need' it?

    I liked your article - calling out Nvidia's GUI design.
    I had the same feedback for Nvidia awhile back - they're not listening to one person's feedback. Hopefully some competition and HardForums will kick them back into gear.

    For the first time in forever I'd actually choose an AMD GPU over an Nvidia.
     
  22. Streetguru

    Streetguru n00bie

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    You always start as high as you can when creating content preferably at lossless but that's crazy for video, you can always compress it down later if needed.


    That's another point for Brent

    Should do some OBS Nvidia Vs AMD Vs like a 1950X, see how the GPU encoding in OBS compares to each other and to CPUs. I don't think anyone has done testing like that, especially not for 4k.

    Soon as Threadripper Gen 2 is announced I'm probably picking up a system for 4k local recording.
     
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  23. Fleat

    Fleat Gawd

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    I enjoyed the comparison and I am not surprised that the performance difference is more or less negligible as they both use hardware encoding. I am very happy to see that ReLive is really coming along to give Nvidia a helpful shove towards more progress.

    I am surprised that you used PlayerUnknown Battlegrounds as your test title and didn't mention Nvidia ShadowPlay Highlights in the feature comparison. My friends and I have captured way more content using that than anything else in the past. It makes it easy to get a highlight reel without having to do any editing.

    When ShadowPlay first came out, it felt revolutionary to be able to record your last x minutes of gameplay with minimal performance impact. Highlights had that same revolutionary feel when I witnessed it working in PUBG. They recently brought this tech to Fortnite which hopefully means we will see this integrated into a lot of big titles going forward.
     
  24. Streetguru

    Streetguru n00bie

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    Another thing to add to the list of testing

    Would using the highlight features from Shadowplay/ReLive have an impact if you're using an SSD for it? Like would it be constantly writing to the SSD? Or does it allocate some RAM based on how back you want to go?
     
  25. EODetroit

    EODetroit [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have to quibble with this assertion from your writeup:

    "The two most popular recording resolutions, 1080p and 1440p, and 50Mbps is as high as it goes, that’s just not good enough."

    That's Bullshit, at least for 1080p. At 1080p60, no one will be able to tell the difference between video captured at 50Mbps and half of that. To suggest that you need even more bitrate to capture 1080p video, more than 50Mbps, is simply untrue. 50Mbps for 1080p60 is already overkill. It would probably be useful for 1440p, but it isn't for 1080p.
     
  26. Streetguru

    Streetguru n00bie

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    Depending on the encoding settings 50K may not be enough

    here's CoD WW2 Ultrafast in OBS, 10K vs 100K, 100K still isn't enough for native with those settings. Higher CPU usage settings can get you more quality with a lower bit rate.


     
  27. EODetroit

    EODetroit [H]ard|Gawd

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    What your wrote makes no sense. First of all, how can you say that 100Mbps (I'm going to assume you meant M instead of K throughout your post) might not be enough when your comparison is against 10Mbps instead of against a transparent copy of the original? Its apples to oranges, at best lemons to limes. Not a correct comparison. You can't prove your point by comparing against 10Mbps, which is far too low and no one is talking about it anyways. Second of all, the CPU isn't being used, Shadowplay encodes on the GPU. Thirdly, in video compression CPU or GPU usage is in all practicality a constant between test cases where bitrate is the only variable. The only reasonable conclusion given all these mistakes is that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

    My assertion is that at 1080p60, 50Mbps already provides a transparent copy of the original using the Shadowplay encoder. Moving it to 100Mbps won't improve it. Transparency is already achieved somewhere a bit over 30Mbps for fast action video. The 50Mbps Shadowplay uses is already a bit of a waste.
     
  28. Streetguru

    Streetguru n00bie

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    Because it's comparing 2 different settings, neither of which are native like quality

    Depending on how much processing shadowplay/ReLive are doing 50K might be enough or it might not be, as I showed there by using really light processing with a 100K Mbps bitrate, the K is just thousands.
     
  29. ZiggyDeath

    ZiggyDeath Limp Gawd

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    100,000,000,000 bits per second...

    12.5 gigabytes per second, man I wish I had a storage drive that can do that in write.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  30. Sojoe

    Sojoe n00bie

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    So, 100,000 Mbps... that is quite high... ;)

    Sound is most often denoted in kilo bits pr. second (1000 bits pr. second).
    Video require much higher bandwidth so its denoted with mega bits pr. second (1,000,000 bits pr. second).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_rate_units
     
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  31. Streetguru

    Streetguru n00bie

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    I take it OBS is measured in Kbps and not Mbps. So ya 100 Mbps just about there.

    In any event, how much encoding are the GPU recordings doing for the footage? Is it equivalent to Ultra Fast for CPUs in OBS, or is it Very Fast or better?
     

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  32. EODetroit

    EODetroit [H]ard|Gawd

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    Less CPU hit than UltraFast. The feature set is mish-mash of stuff found between SuperFast and Faster in x264, but the quality per bitrate is around SuperFast or so. Not that it matters at those bitrates. The easiest way to improve quality with video compression isn't by spending more processing time, its by throwing more bits at it. The preset has nearly no significance when the bitrate is this high.
     
  33. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

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    You could add an OBS column as well if you want to do the full gamut. A lot of people are using this (myself included) for their streaming needs. Would be interesting to see the numbers behind the performance costs vs the vanilla vendor app.
     
  34. Streetguru

    Streetguru n00bie

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    Having more processing time before hand can get you a nicer image though, and it will let you get more for your bitrate, like if you had a limited upload speed for streaming but still wanted high quality, you'd have to get your processing as high as you could since your bitrate is limited

    Isn't twitch limited to 6k bitrate?
     
  35. Batboy88

    Batboy88 Limp Gawd

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    Man we are gonna hunt down the miners with Pitchforks man I swear.
     
  36. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    what?!
     
  37. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

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    twitch is limited to 3mbit for non partnered and 6mbit for partnered while high view count streams have a higher limit but i can't remember what it is, might be 10mbit... vast majority of streamers stream in the 3-5mbit range though. i have no clue what youtubes limits are since i don't watch streams there other than spaceX.
     
  38. Sgraffite

    Sgraffite 2[H]4U

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    Are these specifically limited to 16:9 resolutions? Just asking because that is all that is mentioned and very specifically mentioned at that.
     
  39. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Just remember folks, watching your recorded gaming moments isn't that exciting.

    So don't go to too much effort.
     
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  40. JustReason

    JustReason razor1 is my Lover

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    Lol!! Yeah, I didn't install relive because I don't need proof how bad I suck at gaming, even if that is all I do.
     
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