AGP... Is it dead?

AGP is only "dying" because of planned obselescence(sp) by motherboard and videocard makers.

there are no technical reasons for not seeing a 7900GTX agp.

In fact, it would bench the same as the PCIe cards. Check out the limited release gainward AGP BLISS based on the 7900gt core... it is every bit as fast as a regular 7900gt.

PCI express is good technology that will scale up, but so far there is nothing that AGP can't handle either (as far as SLI, well... the quote "why buy one when you can buy two at twice the price?" fits with this nicely)

the *only* advantage that PCIe has so far is allowing systems integrators to use integrated video but provide a PCIe slot for future upgrade.
 
CEpeep said:
"Who's AGP? AGP's dead, baby. AGP's dead..."
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Did nobody else notice this glorious Pulp Fiction allusion? "Its not a motorcycle baby, its a chopper!"

Anyways...im yet another AGP baby. Pointless upgrades = no thanks!
 
The only reason they are going to make motherboards with AGP and PCIx-16 is not because people dont want to upgrade there video cards, it is to make it cheaper to upgrade. Well actually not cheaper, but you wont have to buy everything at once, you can get your motherboard now and upgrade the video card later.

AGP is dying, it is losing market shere pretty quickly, sooner or later it will no longer be profitable to make AGP cards and there production will stop. The only reason there are still PCI video cards is because theres still alot of computers that have onboard video and no AGP or PCIX Slots, so the only alternative is getting a PCI card, also there used in high end computers for multimonitor setups, so saying there still around is a sign the AGP will be around for a while is foolish.

Sooner or later everyone will either be forced to upgrade or keep there old systems, it aint going to be around much longer, just how long noone knows!
 
I have a brand new X800 Pro that I got for $166, now my file server is my backup gaming rig. Along with the 3.06Northwood and 2gigs of Kingston Hyper X. BF2 looks really nice.

Dead? No.

Fading away? Yes.
 
Yashu said:
there are no technical reasons for not seeing a 7900GTX agp.
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Not so fast, pci-e delivers 75 watts to the card. AGP might be like 25? Sure, go over the connector, another 50 watts... an x1900XT would def be rough, everything all through the connector. We already have issues with this rail mumbo jumbo. AGP was not meant to deal with 7900GTX's.

On other notes, AGP being dead isn't to diss on current rigs. Some people protesting have say a socket A and a 6800. Ok, your rig is alright. You're not buying another video card likely though. You're holding out for a rig overhaul. Making it effectively dead market. Unless you want to continue paying a premium for less performance. Which begs the question of why not buy a new mobo. For AXP and S478 you really can't. How much premium will you through to keep it? It will only get worse. Still might be some reason to get a 7800GS out there I guess. Certainly effectively widdling you into a niche and a system overhaul. Think anything above mid range market for AGP has a foot in the grave. Rather than dissing all the AGP rigs.
 
Atticus_gamer said:
How can you say that the performance is soo much higher? We still havnt even pushed the 8x agp to its max...the bus isnt even breaking a sweat. so really cant say that pci-x is so much faster since we havnt even pushed it to its limits. Im just putting my 2 cents in so say what you want..
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Well, when i gave out that reason, i got countered by the guy saying that even if 8x hasn't been fully realized, the PCIE improvement over the rest of the motherboard makes the efficiency over AGP pretty significant.

And AGP really is dying. Unlike PCI, which has survived three generations (ISA, AGP, PCIE), there's no plan for AGP becoming standard on a PCIE mobo. There will always be a market for PCI video cards (Transcription companies use PCI+Onboard for dual video output on some of their contracts), but not AGP.
 
texuspete00 said:
Not so fast, pci-e delivers 75 watts to the card. AGP might be like 25? Sure, go over the connector, another 50 watts... an x1900XT would def be rough, everything all through the connector. We already have issues with this rail mumbo jumbo. AGP was not meant to deal with 7900GTX's.

On other notes, AGP being dead isn't to diss on current rigs. Some people protesting have say a socket A and a 6800. Ok, your rig is alright. You're not buying another video card likely though. You're holding out for a rig overhaul. Making it effectively dead market. Unless you want to continue paying a premium for less performance. Which begs the question of why not buy a new mobo. For AXP and S478 you really can't. How much premium will you through to keep it? It will only get worse. Still might be some reason to get a 7800GS out there I guess. Certainly effectively widdling you into a niche and a system overhaul. Think anything above mid range market for AGP has a foot in the grave. Rather than dissing all the AGP rigs.
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Not to long ag I got myself a AGP 78000GS (the Gainward 512 MB 7800GT Core).
It sit in on a s478 2.4Ghz P4a on a AGP4x...It does good.
I upgraded form a 6800GT, and can feel the difference quite easy.
The demand on my PSU isn't that big either...
Just call me a happy gamer on AGP ;)

Now why would a I do a full system upgrade with Conro/G80/R600 on the horizon?

Terra - And PCI-e gives less than 50% of the power today anyways :p
 
I have the Gainward card too 7800GS Bliss. It has two power connectors that must be pluged in to operate the card. Infact they are the same as on a PCI card. I know my card is a rebel and notr the normal type but wonder how much power it uses compaired to a similar PCI type card. I can tell you this card works great and is a beast. lol
 
Brent_Justice said:
a slow performing version of the 7800 series yes, basically it doesn't come close to performing equally with what is available at the same price point on PCIe, it is not a high-end solution by any means
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I think NVidia and ATI are playing a risky game with AGP. There is a whole bunch of people that will not dump their perfectly fine rigs to get a fast video card (the pricing of video cards in general is stupid but that's another story). I considered the rip-off that the 7800 GS AGP is and decided they aren't getting my cash. Got a x1600 instead at a third of the price. I can't play games at 1900x1200 but 1280x800 works fine. Should hold me off for another couple of years...
 
DusanV said:
I think NVidia and ATI are playing a risky game with AGP. There is a whole bunch of people that will not dump their perfectly fine rigs to get a fast video card (the pricing of video cards in general is stupid but that's another story). I considered the rip-off that the 7800 GS AGP is and decided they aren't getting my cash. Got a x1600 instead at a third of the price. I can't play games at 1900x1200 but 1280x800 works fine. Should hold me off for another couple of years...
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Gainward has shown what is still possible on AGP.
A true PCI-E 7800(GT) core on AGP via the brigde chip....not a crippled one.
Hell, they even put a full PCI-E 7900(GT) core on AGP via the brigde chip.

Terra - AGP isn't dead yet...as you can buy lastet gen(G71) for AGP...but it's getting there ;)
 
Like a old corny movie. lol keeps dying forever. "Grasp I am dying. Could some body get me a drink of water?" I am dying could somebody get me a ciggaret? I am dying could somebody go in my wallet and get a picture of my wife out? Uh could you put a pillow under my head?"
 
Maichena said:
It will never truly die. Look at PCI cards. You can still buy PCI video cards today.
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Not even remotely the same, how many different types of cards run off of PCI? Sound cards, video cards, controller cards, modems, blah blah yada yada.
How many things run off an AGP slot? Yeah, exactly.
 
this is like, i have ddr 1 memory still, many people think everybody uses ddr2 now, they're wrong, amd still uses ddr1, p4 6xx still uses ddr1, even the new 975 p4 you will be able to find ddr1 mobos. it's more like, what you find for sale on the net, than what people say. people are always buying new stuff because other people have. imo.
as long as windows supports it, its okay.
 
stopmenow said:
this is like, i have ddr 1 memory still, many people think everybody uses ddr2 now, they're wrong, amd still uses ddr1, p4 6xx still uses ddr1, even the new 975 p4 you will be able to find ddr1 mobos. it's more like, what you find for sale on the net, than what people say. people are always buying new stuff because other people have. imo.
as long as windows supports it, its okay.
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You're going to have to link me to a 975 mobo with DDR1 because I don't believe it. AFAIK, only the 915 had DDR1 support.

And as far as I'm concerned, AGP died for me the day it was cheaper to get a new motherboard AND PCIe video card rather than get the SAME AGP video card (X850XT). Just try and find an X850XT anywhere in AGP for under $200.
 
amazing that a motherboard that has power regulators, memory slots, raid, sound, usb, 1394, etc, etc, etc is like $90 whereas a video card that just does, well, video is $300? As long as they keep practically giving away MB's and the new cards are faster & cheaper than the old cards, we have no choice but to eventually embrace this planned obsolescence. If the manufacturers don't sell lots of new stuff and take our money, then they will not develop the new stuff we crave,...LOL. Is anyone making new boards with AGP still? If not, then it's dead by definition (meaning it will be extinct when the last board dies)..it just doesn't know it yet. Heck, Socket A's been dead for years and 939 will actually be dead, now that AM2 is out, when they stop making 939 boards. Dead but still usable. I have 4 AGP Socket A computers and only 1 PCIe 939 computer, so dead or not, they still works fine...
 
perryinva said:
amazing that a motherboard that has power regulators, memory slots, raid, sound, usb, 1394, etc, etc, etc is like $90 whereas a video card that just does, well, video is $300?
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try to sell a mainboard with a high end CPU and RAM built into and see where you get...

That shit will cost in excess of $600 with decent components - I cant remember the last time I saw a stick of desktop DDR3 rated for 1.1ns either.

video cards have PWM circuits as well.
 
I think of AGP as more in it's 70s. It aint dead yet, could be around for quite a long time, but it's deffinately over the hill :D

I can see it now, black t-shirts that say "AGP - Over the hill" :p
 
Maichena said:
If you want to get philosophical, every piece of technology that comes out is dying the moment it is released. It's just a matter of when. Now for a more objective view.

Companies do release AGP cards because there is a demand for them. However, new cards are released in PCIe flavor first before it is released as AGP a few months later.

In my opinion, it sounds like companies are testing the market with PCIe first before deciding whether they want to release that model as an AGP.

It will never truly die. Look at PCI cards. You can still buy PCI video cards today.

So to answer the OP, no it won't die, but it will not gain any share of the graphic card market.
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well said, I concur. I use AGP in all the games my son and I play, many recent ones. They all run fine. Maybe sometime in a few years I will go PCI-E. Just gave a friend a computer for his bike shop, runs XP Pro and has a Matrox 4 MB card, PCI for video. You would have a very hard time telling that from a modern card running point of sale apps and other 2 D stuff. Just depends on what you are using a certain card for.
 
really cost... I still think video cards are a rip off..but I keep on buying them, so they must be priced to match market demand!!!....... I think that if a MB maker included an amount of memory comensurate with what is "correct" for that board that allowed OCing, they'd sell like crazy. Like 2 GB for todays high end board.
 
AGP isn't dead, not by a long shot. But it definitely is being dragged kicking and screaming to its grave. It will be clawing at the casket and the dirt covering it until only bloody 32-bit stumps remain.

Sad.

It's a technology that started with 440LX back in 1995. It's served us well for over a decade, and even so, its death was sudden, unanticipated, and IMO, before the time was ripe. It shouldn't have been phased out so rapidly. At least, not when you take into account the amount of people with relatively modern AGP systems. Those people are screwed in terms up upgrading.

Competition isn't always a good thing, because, like in this instance, the death of AGP was brought about by the battle between the video chipset makers, and the anticipated benefits of new products, are offset by the need to replace your other hardware.

But such is life, and the computer industry.
 
It is good to still have AGP cards available when you don't want to replace a whole PC. Last month the MX200 32MB AGP card in my daughter's PC crapped out so I replaced it with a FX5500 128MB AGP.
 
Frank4d said:
It is good to still have AGP cards available when you don't want to replace a whole PC. Last month the MX200 32MB AGP card in my daughter's PC crapped out so I replaced it with a FX5500 128MB AGP.
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That's a good point.
 
I have a HIS x800pro 256mb agp overclocked that can run about anything right now out fine with the anisotropics and antialiasing. running a mobile athlonxp [email protected] with 2GB of ram. Agp isn't dead but its dieing but i would like to see some newer faster cards for it. :)
 
Conker said:
I have a HIS x800pro 256mb agp overclocked that can run about anything right now out fine with the anisotropics and antialiasing. running a mobile athlonxp [email protected] with 2GB of ram. Agp isn't dead but its dieing but i would like to see some newer faster cards for it. :)
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That is almost just like my old system. I had a XP-M 2600 at 2.65Ghz on a ASUS A7N8X-Deluxe 2.0 with my AIW X800XT. The card screams at 589/1200. It really screams now on my new system. I didnt want to drop the cash on a new card that would not be a huge improvement over what I already had, so I went with that ASrock board so I can still use my AGP card and upgrade later on to a PCI-E card. I like to keep my stuff around for a while...
 
AGP is dead and I base this on the amount of AGP cards being released... well... lack of AGP cards, here is is an answer for you, nvidia released the 7800GS to take over the high end AGP market and is leaving it at that, ATI never released an answer... my thoughts are because they believe AGP is a dead market

give it another year and AGP will be very hard to come by, you will have to buy 3 generation old motherboards to support it unless you buy those chipset boards that support PCI-E and AGP but keep in mind that those are NOT performance boards, anyone remember the K7S5A that supported SDRAM and DDR, I remember I bought it because it was cheap, because I had SDRAM but wanted to upgrade to DDR when I got the money, oh how I loved that board! just don't expect to break any 3dmark records with it ;)
 
KompressorV12 said:
give it another year and AGP will be very hard to come by, you will have to buy 3 generation old motherboards to support it unless you buy those chipset boards that support PCI-E and AGP but keep in mind that those are NOT performance boards,
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You do not know what you are talking about.

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2524&p=9

Looks like the ULi board is matching up wether it's running an AGP card or a PCI-E card. It even beats the DFI Lanparty NF4 board in some tests.
 
I just bought a Saphire X800GTO in AGP flavor 2 months ago. It was an upgrade from a 9800Pro, and a very worthwhile investment. I think I have extended the life of my current rig by about a year. I really wasn't willing to spend $$$ for a new video card, as well as a new MOBO, and CPU. This will give me time to save up so I can build another ass kicker, rather than just something to get me into the socket 939 state of mind.


http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1036180
 
i figure finding a AGP high end card in a few years will be like trying to find a High end VLB card today.
 
Conker said:
I have a HIS x800pro 256mb agp overclocked that can run about anything right now out fine with the anisotropics and antialiasing. running a mobile athlonxp [email protected] with 2GB of ram. Agp isn't dead but its dieing but i would like to see some newer faster cards for it. :)
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The ICEQ2 X800 pro? I have the same card, and it's a screamer when overclocked (I get 590/610).

You will benefit a LOT by going S939 and getting a cheap A64 (maybe a winnie 3200+ or Opty 144) and overclocking it. You can even keep your DDR. Your XP is doing very well at 2.6GHz, but you will be amazed at the difference the A64 will make. It should even (oddly) allow you to run higher AA/AF quality settings.
 
Well, for me a new build wasn't in the cards, so I dropped $225 on ebay for a new 7800 GS AGP and just extended my system life for at least another year or so. Given that good deal, the upgrade made sense to keep it on life support a little longer. It's tough spending any money on an aging system, but this gives me good gaming at native res on my VX2025WM.

Dead? Not yet for me. Dying? Not yet there either. Is the end in sight? Sure it is, but I've got a lot of dollar's worth out of this system and will have years of gaming goodness out of it before it's over.
 
I agree it's near dead....

I plan on upgrading my desktop (#2), but just can't see doing it right now since I
have my shuttle to fill the gap for a while.

My theory is to build a new system taking care of Vista requirements and the latest
PCI-E cards that are out at that time (next year). There will also be new drivers and hardare to consider.

I prefer the all in one approach and I'm very patient. Between my two systems I can run most things anyways.
 
I heard a good quote the other day..

"Agp is far from dead.. its just a very expensive old habit."
 
I think it depends on what CPU you have actually. If you're running socket A or 478, AGP is pretty much a given seeing as 478 PCIe boards are cost prohibitive (if you can find one). But if you have a s754/s939/LGA775 CPU, often it is cheaper to get a new mobo and the PCIe equivalent to whatever AGP card you're looking for.

Case in point...X850XT's for $140 at newegg in PCIe (refurbed was cheaper actually). Try and find an AGP version for anywhere near that.
 
If my memory serves me right, I heard about the AGP 4x being saturated and having an extreme "bottleneck" at high res gaming making zero difference between a mid-end card and a high range card. My old PC was an integrated graphic but still can play the good games. So I decided to wait up. I was seriously considering upgrading my PC when I heard systems with the AGP8x is out thinking hey this got to be the best time. Fortunately, at that time I was very busy at work leaving me no time to game. So, I decided not to upgrade for a while and hoping the price would go down later...and then about 6 months?? later BOOM! the PCI-E x16 standard comes out and hits the PC industry by storm. Its like a madrush to the mainstream once it came out so AGP faces an accelerated death. Still, systems with AGP 8x is fairly new and should perform better than any low-end PCI-E cards. But the PCI-E x16 bandwidth is extreme lol, more so with the release of GeForce 7950GX2, with 2 of everything in one PCI-E bus.
 
silz said:
If my memory serves me right, I heard about the AGP 4x being saturated and having an extreme "bottleneck" at high res gaming making zero difference between a mid-end card and a high range card.
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You heard wrong. The x850XT PE/6800Ultra era of cards was barely saturating the AGP 4x bus, and the AGP 8x bus was never used to its full capacity.
 
I just did the same I upgraded from a 9800pro to a X800XL huge difference. I have had my setup for 2 1/2 yrs and I plan on keeping it for another year. That's 3 1/2 yrs I got out of it Defenitely got my money's worth. I am going to wait for quad core Vista DX10 etc I think it's worth it to wait.
 
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