5870 - $299

[vengence]

You don't know how much $20 will buy you because

a.) energy costs are different in different parts of the country.
b.) energy costs are different during different hours of the day.

a) I took the average accross the country of 0.11$/kWhr.
b) 90% if not 99% of residental consumers do not vary thier cost on time of day.

Secondly, it's always worth it to conserve. $20 x 12 = $240, a free plane ticket every year. What if someone has more than one computer? That's $480 in savings. What if the machine is on 24/7?

Very few peoples computers pull 750Watts. By your own links, a pair of 295s in SLI is pulling 400W. How many people do that?

Saving $20 a month, at 4% interest compounded monthly will net you $14,000 after thirty years. That would make a nice down payment on a Corvette. Or a second Corvette.

So not gaming from the time you are 20 to the time you are 50, and not using twice the power a compuer uses, isn't even going to buy you a decent car? How on earth can you say that is worth it?

Not to mention the environmental side of things..how much less coal would we burn if everyone reduced their electric bill by $20 per month?

What stops you from using a green electric company if you care so much about the enviroment?

If you reduced the draw of a GTX285 ino half you would only save 75 watts. A difference of 2$ a month. I don't know anyone who has the time to game 8 hours a day 7 days a week who gives a shit about 2$ a month. Furthermore, even if you invented this magical card and assumed it would have a life span of 2 years, unless it cost less than 25$ more it wouldn't be worth it.

 

[panfist]

spoiled brat bullshit

I grew up on a farm. We conserved everything. I was taught that it's rude and wrong to waste anything.

If you want to go through your life splurging just because you can or because it's more convenient for you, go ahead, I'm not going to stop you.

 

[vengence]

I grew up on a farm. We conserved everything. I was taught that it's rude and wrong to waste anything.

If you want to go through your life splurging just because you can or because it's more convenient for you, go ahead, I'm not going to stop you.

2$ a month is "Wasteful"? Wasteful is wasting your life worrying over spending 2$ more a month on your electric bill when you have thousands in the bank. BTW. You might want to watch the name calling, it is against the TOS.

 

[panfist]

2$ a month is "Wasteful"? Wasteful is wasting your life worrying over spending 2$ more a month on your electric bill when you have thousands in the bank. BTW. You might want to watch the name calling, it is against the TOS.

First it's $20 a month, 750W, now it's $2 a month...pick an example and stick to it. I don't care if I save $100 a month or one cent a month...it's the principle of the matter.

Like I said, I'm not going to stop you from doing what you want. I said that I pay attention to performance per watt and you come in here telling me it doesn't matter. I don't care if it doesn't matter to you. I don't think that trying to lead a good life is wasteful.

BTW I have thousands in the bank, too, BTW. Like I said above: principles.

 

[vengence]

First it's $20 a month, 750W, now it's $2 a month...pick an example and stick to it. I don't care if I save $100 a month or one cent a month...it's the principle of the matter.

Like I said, I'm not going to stop you from doing what you want. I said that I pay attention to performance per watt and you come in here telling me it doesn't matter. I don't care if it doesn't matter to you. I don't think that trying to lead a good life is wasteful.

BTW I have thousands in the bank, too, BTW. Like I said above: principles.

/sigh. No body uses 750$ a month, so you can't ever say you could save that much. If you cut your graphics consumption in half it is a savings of 2$ a month.

Are you going to go out and buy a 40,000$ chevy volt? That way you can stop wasting gas! Of course it will take 14,000 miles a year and over 15 years to break even vs a civic hybrid or more vs a prius.

Preformance per watt is a very good measure. It is very important for anything running a battery. But to say lets spend 1000$ on a new computer but then worry about 2$ a month on your electric bill is a joke and is even more wasteful. Which, for the record, is still to high when you compare the avaliable options if you want the preformance of a GTX 285.

You want the real difference between a 4870 and a GTX 260 core 216? Have a look. The maximum is 24Watts (~0.75$/month). Yeah, that's real important.

If you want to be less wasteful, that's great. Do something that might make a difference. Going out to eat with your wife one less time every 4 years will net you the same amount of cash.

 

[psyside]

BTW the topic is about 5870 not about money savings, thank you.

 

[panfist]

/sigh. No body uses 750$ a month, so you can't ever say you could save that much. If you cut your graphics consumption in half it is a savings of 2$ a month.

Are you going to go out and buy a 40,000$ chevy volt? That way you can stop wasting gas! Of course it will take 14,000 miles a year and over 15 years to break even vs a civic hybrid or more vs a prius.

Preformance per watt is a very good measure. It is very important for anything running a battery. But to say lets spend 1000$ on a new computer but then worry about 2$ a month on your electric bill is a joke and is even more wasteful. Which, for the record, is still to high when you compare the avaliable options if you want the preformance of a GTX 285.

You want the real difference between a 4870 and a GTX 260 core 216? Have a look. The maximum is 24Watts (~0.75$/month). Yeah, that's real important.

If you want to be less wasteful, that's great. Do something that might make a difference. Going out to eat with your wife one less time every 4 years will net you the same amount of cash.

It's not just about conserving cash, but conserving resources as well. And not just environmental resources. Once you get yourself in the conservation frame of mind, it becomes an obsession just like trying to get the highest clock speed or highest frame rate.

It's not like I cheat myself out of enjoying life. I still buy fast graphics cards and play video games, and yet the most "conservation-ist" graphics card is no graphics card at all. I chose to patronize, most of the time, the manufacturer with the most efficient components, because I value the highest efficiency more than the highest performance. The performance gap is pretty much just as insignificant as the efficiency gap, so it's hard to argue against one point of view while advocating the other.

As far as the Chevy Volt is concerned...until it comes down in price you're going to get idealists and retards buying it; idealists for whom money is no object, and retards who think they'll save money. It would be nice to have the kind of money laying around where I could buy it just to support it, but I don't have a spare $40,000 laying around...

 

[stiltner]

Wow, a video card thread turns into a arguement about electric and energy savings on a per watt basis in relation to automobiles?


You guys sure do know how to fuck up a good thread don't ya?

 

[Fafeifa]

LOL who cares whats going to happen to the world in 200 yrs is not like we are going to be here to see it so FFS be all wastefull you can while you still alive and make an impression for the future.

 

[Kuromizu]

Was this thread ever about video cards?

 

[retro]

Back on topic, I've got about 380 quid (roughly 600 USD) saved up over the last few days of flogging since us here in the UK are likely to get raped with the prices of the 5870x2 card.

Can't bloody wait!

 

[Mr. K6]

I believe he was agreeing with you.

Oh, and frankly, 20$ will buy you 750 Watts for 8 hours a day 7 days a week for a month. And durring the winter, it's free as you would otherwise spend the same money on your electric heater to heat your house. For some of us, 20$ a month just doesn't matter.

Ah, then let me apologize for that comment to panfist and direct at people like you, who don't understand computing in general. Efficiency is more than just dollars, it defines a higher quality part. Not only do you save money, but you also gain flexibility and overclockability as well as versatility. With a less efficient part, not only do you have to pay for the extra electricity to run it, you have to pay for the extra electricity to cool it down (i.e., keeping the A/C on longer). You also get the benefit of being able to overclock it higher/use less electricity at the same clock and can get an added performance boost, a cooler running machine, or both. You can also add less noise in as well, depending on your cooling solution (it's reciprocal being money saved on excess cooling).

You don't know how much $20 will buy you because

a.) energy costs are different in different parts of the country.
b.) energy costs are different during different hours of the day.

Secondly, it's always worth it to conserve. $20 x 12 = $240, a free plane ticket every year. What if someone has more than one computer? That's $480 in savings. What if the machine is on 24/7?

Saving $20 a month, at 4% interest compounded monthly will net you $14,000 after thirty years, even though you only deposited $7200. That would make a nice down payment on a Corvette. Or a second Corvette.

Not to mention the environmental side of things..how much less coal would we burn if everyone reduced their electric bill by $20 per month?

I grew up on a farm. We conserved everything. I was taught that it's rude and wrong to waste anything.

If you want to go through your life splurging just because you can or because it's more convenient for you, go ahead, I'm not going to stop you.

If I could rep you, I would. A man after my own heart .

For the rest you that find it too difficult to not read posts that don't pertain to your interests, here's a site that might expand your mental capabilities - http://pbskids.org/barney/children/games/colorshapesgame.html

Morons.

 

[psyside]

ROFL!!!!!!!!

 

[Arcygenical]

The prospect of 1 PCIe power cable - and performance slightly better than a GTX285 at stock (with a respectable headroom for overclocking mind you) is very exciting to me.

Heat is becoming a major concern for me... I can dissipate around 900w of heat with ease - but I'd fry my nuts off in a tiny apartment doing so.

 

[MorgothPl]

I wonder what will be with the noise levels, and I really hope they will make a decent cooling system, which will be efficient and not sound like vacuum cleaner. Might wait tho to see HiS or Sapphire doing their respective cooling systems like Vapor-X or iCoolerx4.

 

[Zachstar]

5870 rumors put it at 399 now. A big HELL NO thank you ATI from me.

AMD set to lose even more share with these prices.

 

[phide]

You guys sure do know how to fuck up a good thread don't ya?

I'm better at it. This is an amateur thread derailment

5870 rumors put it at 399 now.

People will buy it at $399, though I would expect prices would fall fairly rapidly after the first month or two.

 

[cannondale06]

I'm better at it. This is an amateur thread derailment


People will buy it at $399, though I would expect prices would fall fairly rapidly after the first month or two.

if its only 60%faster(rumor) than the 4870 then $399 will be hard to swallow with 4890 cards being half that price. $399 just doesnt make sense for that level of card not to mention the price of the 5870x2 would likely be around $699-$749 if that single 5870 price is true.

 

[Zorachus]

if its only 60%faster(rumor) than the 4870 then $399 will be hard to swallow with 4890 cards being half that price.

That's why I think the rumors of $299 sound right on. 60% faster than the 4870 1gb is what they are saying. So that makes it like maybe 50% faster than the 4890, and approx 40% faster than a GTX-285.

If that is true for $299, and running cooler and more efficient, and better for Crossfire, that would be a fair deal. I might buy two if all this is correct, and Crossfire them on my X48 motherboard

 

[Wazooty]

Indeed. the $400 price point has me hoping it's closer to a 4870x2 in terms of performance.

Or (gasp) the fabled 295.

 

[vengence]

Ah, then let me apologize for that comment to panfist and direct at people like you, who don't understand computing in general. Efficiency is more than just dollars, it defines a higher quality part.

So a prius is a higher quality car than a Ferrari because it gets better gas milage?

Not only do you save money

You don't save money. The 4870vs260 in the worse case the difference over a year was less than 10$. That is lost in the noise between the cost of the grahpics cards. Buying one card for 10$ less than the other and you've saved money.

but you also gain flexibility and overclockability as well as versatility.

No. Sometimes the more power hungry part overclocks better when you are talking different architectures.

With a less efficient part, not only do you have to pay for the extra electricity to run it, you have to pay for the extra electricity to cool it down (i.e., keeping the A/C on longer).

Or if you live in the north it helps keep your house warm durring the winter costing you nothing.

You also get the benefit of being able to overclock it higher/use less electricity at the same clock and can get an added performance boost, a cooler running machine, or both.

I'm going to guess at what you meant here, because this is a clusterfuck of a sentance. If you want to overclock it, then you really aren't concerened with electricity usage now are you? If you want a cooler running machine try water cooling as the tempeture of your chip has much more to do with the cooling solution. If you want less heat dumped into your room, perhaps you should dial down your graphical requirements and undervolt your chip.

You can also add less noise in as well, depending on your cooling solution (it's reciprocal being money saved on excess cooling).

Unless you're adding an aftermarket cooler, the cost of both running the cooler and the cooler its self has already been included in the numbers mentioned above. You can't count it twice.

Morons.

I'd advise you to not call people names. It is against the TOS and the admins/mods don't have much tollerance for it.

 

[Wazooty]

lol wat

 

[sculelos]

Back on topic. Sounds like this card is a good deal to me. I've been running a 4850 and it still works fine in most of my games but the 5870 should make everything liquid smooth. I'll probably wait until I can get it for 250$ then probably upgrade.

 

[Mr. K6]

So a prius is a higher quality car than a Ferrari because it gets better gas milage?

So I was right; you don't understand computers so much that you can't even understand an analogy about them. Why do I bother?

You don't save money. The 4870vs260 in the worse case the difference over a year was less than 10$. That is lost in the noise between the cost of the grahpics cards. Buying one card for 10$ less than the other and you've saved money.

Who was talking about the GTX260 vs. 4870 ever and when? You know what's cool, nectarines are on sale this week and they also saved me money.

No. Sometimes the more power hungry part overclocks better when you are talking different architectures.

The term "better" is subjective. Use your words to come up with a "better" instance.

Or if you live in the north it helps keep your house warm durring the winter costing you nothing.

Except that electrical heating is one of the most inefficient forms of household heating available, so you'd want to minimize that. And you've also wasted the money on the electricity for this "glorified" electric heater, so it did cost you something. Or does your computer run on pixie dust? Mine runs on electricity.

I'm going to guess at what you meant here, because this is a clusterfuck of a sentance. If you want to overclock it, then you really aren't concerened with electricity usage now are you? If you want a cooler running machine try water cooling as the tempeture of your chip has much more to do with the cooling solution. If you want less heat dumped into your room, perhaps you should dial down your graphical requirements and undervolt your chip.

It's ironic that you think you know something about grammar, but can't even spell "sentence" correctly. That sentence is grammatically correct, go back to middle school and try harder. Having a more efficient chip can allow one to A) overclock higher using the same cooling solution / (the slash means and-or, maybe that's what tripped you up on that doozy of a complex sentence) B) run at a similar overclock using less power. One of the many trade-offs of overclocking is power efficiency: "If I apply 0.xxxV and overclock to 36XX, I can get XX% more performance for only a minimal increase in power usage." Like I said, you lack a fundamental understanding of computer hardware.

Unless you're adding an aftermarket cooler, the cost of both running the cooler and the cooler its self has already been included in the numbers mentioned above. You can't count it twice.

That's funny, I wasn't aware it was impossible to control the speed of stock fans

I'd advise you to not call people names. It is against the TOS and the admins/mods don't have much tollerance for it.

That's funny, because Kyle visited this thread and I'm guessing didn't care. You know what's also funny? You're not a moderator. And it's spelled "tolerance."

Next time you get your feelings hurt, try to formulate a somewhat sensible "smug reply" so your attempt at retribution doesn't look so foolish. That said, I'm not wasting any more time on this digression.

 

[Wazooty]

So, there's a reason this topic is about the pricing of the HD 5870

And that is that it's not about 2 people arguing about the cost of power.

Amazing.

And please, call us morons for using the topic for its intended purpose, please.

 

[vengence]

So, there's a reason this topic is about the pricing of the HD 5870

And that is that it's not about 2 people arguing about the cost of power.

Amazing.

And please, call us morons for using the topic for its intended purpose, please.

You are right. I got sucked into a troll. My mistake.

 

[edifyingkarma]

Ive been noticing that 70% of conversation that occurs here [H]ardforum consists of bickering a non constructive point. FUN!

 

[TechBoy]

Ive been noticing that 70% of conversation that occurs here [H]ardforum consists of bickering a non constructive point. FUN!

lol, thats because we are too [H]ard to stay on track.

 

[Copyright]

This may have been posted already. I hope these prices are not true.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2009/9/2/ati-radeon-58502c-58702c-5870x2-pricing-revealed.aspx

 

[Zorachus]

This may have been posted already. I hope these prices are not true.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2009/9/2/ati-radeon-58502c-58702c-5870x2-pricing-revealed.aspx

Well that sucks So much for me going Crossfire on 2 5870's. That would run me like $800 at those prices, no thanks.

But then if the 5870 is really $399, that is saying it should be a strong competitor, and really will be the beast all the rumors are saying it will be. Like at least 60% faster than the 4890, that makes it approx 50% faster than a GTX-285, which would be pretty bad ass in my book.

Now I might actually wait until the nVidia cards come out for two reasons before I purchase. nVidia might have the faster/better cards for the same price at release, and once the GTX-380 is out the ATI 5800 series will come down in price for sure. At $400 for the single 5870, that does NOT make me want to jump on one right away, that is a bit higher than I care to spend for an upgrade to my GTX-280, unless the 5870 is a freaking monster card like 100% faster than my 280, but I doubt it.

 

[panfist]

This may have been posted already. I hope these prices are not true.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2009/9/2/ati-radeon-58502c-58702c-5870x2-pricing-revealed.aspx

Well, you know how this business works...they launch it at a high price because they know that a bunch of early adopters are going to bite basically no matter how much it costs, and within a couple months the price will be 10% less, then 20%, etc...

The sooner nvidia comes out with a new product, the sooner the price will drop.

Unless you have like a last-gen mid-range card or worse, or you game at 2560x1600, or Crysis is your favorite game (anyone fall into this category?), I don't see who would be in a hurry to upgrade.

 

[Copyright]

Well, you know how this business works...they launch it at a high price because they know that a bunch of early adopters are going to bite basically no matter how much it costs, and within a couple months the price will be 10% less, then 20%, etc...

The sooner nvidia comes out with a new product, the sooner the price will drop.

Unless you have like a last-gen mid-range card or worse, or you game at 2560x1600, or Crysis is your favorite game (anyone fall into this category?), I don't see who would be in a hurry to upgrade.

Very true... I dont NEED the upgrade.... but i sure WANT it

 

[panfist]

Very true... I dont NEED the upgrade.... but i sure WANT it

I NEED to upgrade from my 4870 1GB @ 1920x1080 so I can enable higher AA in more games. My wife disagrees

 

[Zorachus]

Only reason I am hot to upgrade from my GTX-280 to a 5870 was for triple screen gaming. The 5800 series will not need the Matrox TH2G device anymore from what I have read ?

I would love to play WoW on 3 - 22" LCD's, and they can be had cheap now, for like $150 ea. Or I wonder if the 5800 series can handle 2 different resolutions ? Like keep my Dell 27" 1920x1200 in the center, and just buy 2 - 20" 1600x1200 LCD's and put on either side. That would be cool if that worked ? I know for sure the Matrox box only does 1680res max X 3, and all three have to be same res, so hopefully this new AMD card can do higher res ?

 

[cnick79]

I NEED to upgrade from my 4870 1GB @ 1920x1080 so I can enable higher AA in more games. My wife disagrees

So she believes bigger is not better?

Would it be worth it to crossfire two 4870's or buy a single 5870?

 

[panfist]

So she believes bigger is not better?

Would it be worth it to crossfire two 4870's or buy a single 5870?

That depends on how low the price goes on the 4870.

I would have to buy another 4870 and a PSU, because I'm not sure if my 600W PSU could handle an overclocked i7 and two overclocked 4870s. On the other hand, just because it only came with 2x PCIE connectors does not mean that it's really incapable of supplying the power. I think I would rather be safe than sorry.

 

[phide]

$399 doesn't seem like too terrible a price for a card that's in all likelihood ~40-50% faster than a GTX 285. Considering the 5870 is a single-GPU solution, that's not a bad deal at all, in my opinion.

The $299 price did seem a bit unrealistic given the rumoured performance.

 

[cannondale06]

$399 doesn't seem like too terrible a price for a card that's in all likelihood ~40-50% faster than a GTX 285. Considering the 5870 is a single-GPU solution, that's not a bad deal at all, in my opinion.

The $299 price did seem a bit unrealistic given the rumoured performance.

your comment is completely illogical. $399 would be entirely too much for a card of that level. its the next gen card so of course it should be much faster but its still a card that is only half as fast as the 5870x2 will be. if its only 60% faster than a 4870 then that makes it just 50% faster then a current 4890 which is half that price. also directly comparing it to the gtx285 is silly because thats Nvidias current gen so in 2-3 months its an irrelevant comparison anyway.

 

[Raap]

The price is certainly high, but this does raise my expectations for the performance of the new cards.

 

[Mr. K6]

your comment is completely illogical. $399 would be entirely too much for a card of that level. its the next gen card so of course it should be much faster but its still a card that is only half as fast as the 5870x2 will be. if its only 60% faster than a 4870 then that makes it just 50% faster then a current 4890 which is half that price. also directly comparing it to the gtx285 is silly because thats Nvidias current gen so in 2-3 months its an irrelevant comparison anyway.

The GTX295 launched at $500 while the GTX 285 was launched at the same time at an MSRP of $400. The GTX 295 is MUCH faster than a GTX285 - however, being the fastest single GPU graphics card carries a price premium (that seemingly many are willing to pay). The ball is in AMD's court right now, they can decide what they want to do with it. If they charge $300, they could move a ton of units and really dig into market share. They could also do this in the hope to grab more market share since they're first out the door - not many people who buy a 5870 are going to consider buying the GT300 part 3 months later (therefore killing NVIDIA's sales). However, this might not be as profitable as AMD wants (or needs). They could sell at $400 and will still probably make some decent sales (I'm almost guaranteed to get one still), as well as a higher profit. This could also help out if supply issues weren't solved as completely as it would seem. They then could drop the price of the 5870 a few months later when the 5870X2 debuts (and, if necessary, supply increases), further helping their sales and hurting NVIDIA's. These are just some scenarios to ponder, but like I said, the ball's in AMD's court this time.