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$2500 5090 I’m out

GamerNerves said:
1.1.2.3.5... You can use any decent AI model to create TLRDs I assume. Haha, AI will likely mess with some discussions on the net due to compressing delicate points into short notes for those who are not in for the read at a given moment. In the picture is Gemini's result for you.

The related post
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Have they fixed their AI not being able to generate white people?
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Has anyone actually seen a reliable leak on price, or are we just randomly speculating here?

I totally expect a price increase over the 4090's MSRP with actual prices on available GPU's being nuts, just like they were when the 4090 launched, but a $2,500 MSRP seems a bit excessive.
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Most supposedly legit rumors peg the RTX-5090 FE launching at $1899 and the board makers like Asus and Gigabyte versions starting a few hundred dollars higher than the FE, so the Asus 5090 will have a MSRP of $2299 or so.

But these prices are irrelevant, as you'll never get one in-stock the first 6 months or so. All the big corporate LLM A.I. companies will snap them up. So if you want a 5090 right away, expect to pay an additional $1,000 to purchase from a scalper off Craigslist or Marketplace. Those will be selling for $3000+

But if you can wait till 2026 then you'll get your $2000 card at MSRP.

I've been buying video cards since the 1990's and have seen this happen. The RTX-3xxx series being the hardest to get at launch, and the RTX-4xxx a little bit easier to get.

I was able to get my RTX-3080 and RTX-3070 couple months after launch at Microcenter, but I had to stalk the store routinely, going in every few days at lunchtime when their deliveries arrived, took me 6 to 8 weeks of doing that to get one at MSRP.

The RTX-4080 FE I got through an alert in my Best Buy account, it alerted me of available stock 2 months after launch, but I had literally like 5 seconds to click purchase, otherwise it was gone.

So you can get one of these cards near launch at regular price, you just need to make it a part-time job hunting for them, just always walking into Microcenter as if you work there, going there 4 or 5 days a week for months, or checking Best Buy site every few hours, every day for months. Doing that you'll definitely get your card.
 
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Zorachus said:
Most supposedly legit rumors peg the RTX-5090 FE launching at $1899 and the board makers like Asus and Gigabyte versions starting a few hundred dollars higher than the FE, so the Asus 5090 will have a MSRP of $2299 or so.

But these prices are irrelevant, as you'll never get one in-stock the first 6 months or so. All the big corporate LLM A.I. companies will snap them up. So if you want a 5090 right away, expect to pay an additional $1,000 to purchase from a scalper off Craigslist or Marketplace. Those will be selling for $3000+

But if you can wait till 2026 then you'll get your $2000 card at MSRP.

I've been buying video cards since the 1990's and have seen this happen. The RTX-3xxx series being the hardest to get at launch, and the RTX-4xxx a little bit easier to get.

I was able to get my RTX-3080 and RTX-3070 couple months after launch at Microcenter, but I had to stalk the store routinely, going in every few days at lunchtime when their deliveries arrived, took me 6 to 8 weeks of doing that to get one at MSRP.

The RTX-4080 FE I got through an alert in my Best Buy account, it alerted me of available stock 2 months after launch, but I had literally like 5 seconds to click purchase, otherwise it was gone.

So you can get one of these cards hear launch at regular price, you just need to make it a part-time job hunting for them.
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If you had to assign a dollar value to the amount of time spent at this "part time job" what would it be? Hypothetically speaking.
 
CookieFactory said:
If you had to assign a dollar value to the amount of time spent at this "part time job" what would it be? Hypothetically speaking.
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It depends how bad you want the shiny new piece of tech.

First world problems LOL

If like me you'd never give a dime to a shady scalper I don't mind walking into my local Microcenter, which is right between my house and work so it's easy for me to do it, doesn't take too much time.

But if you have money burning a hole in your wallet and don't care giving some shady fuck an additional $1000+ and paying $3000 to $3500 for your 5090, then you'll get it right away.

I would guess the scalper market right away, like as soon as the cards are available, will be super high, I'd say $3500 - $4000.
 
Just like the 4090 the people who want the top of the stack will pay whatever Nvidia asks. It took a lot of personal justification to dabble in the $6-700 gpu range and I’m not going any higher. It’s fun to keep up with the latest even if I’m not buying though.
 
People get a full rush of blood when benchmarking the best video card for the next two years. I keep a bunch of screenshots of uniengin Superposition Benchmarks back when I still had a 1080ti it's fun seeing the numbers go up If I can get my hands on a 5080 that doesn't look worse than my current card I'll get that.
 
Epyon said:
I’m good with my 4090 and 4080 for my 3-D rendering I’m just gonna set up a Q system and have that shit render while I’m offshore working most of the time I know I make more than $100,000 a year but at $2500 for a 5090 I’m out

More law as dead reporting that’s what the new price is gonna be $2000-$2500 and they’re leaning closer to 2500 and there’s not even any games that really need a 5090 Jesus
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250 k here and I wont go over 1400 for anything. They can pound sand. I would rather spend that on a long range rifle to add to my collection.
 
I'm wondering how it would be possible to get one at launch, since scalpers etc seem to all be using bots.
 
zerogg said:
I'm wondering how it would be possible to get one at launch, since scalpers etc seem to all be using bots.
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Like the old iSheep days, when iPhone nerds would wait in lines blocks long on release day of a new iPhone. You can do that at Microcenter, they always get the new cards right away, but how many cards each store gets, I don't know. Sometimes just 5 or 50 or 100 a week, it all veries.
 
Zorachus said:
It depends how bad you want the shiny new piece of tech.

First world problems LOL

If like me you'd never give a dime to a shady scalper I don't mind walking into my local Microcenter, which is right between my house and work so it's easy for me to do it, doesn't take too much time.

But if you have money burning a hole in your wallet and don't care giving some shady fuck an additional $1000+ and paying $3000 to $3500 for your 5090, then you'll get it right away.

I would guess the scalper market right away, like as soon as the cards are available, will be super high, I'd say $3500 - $4000.
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Scalpers are just the natural consequence of the supply/demand curve. If a product is available for a price that is substantially under-selling it's demand, Scalpers will come in and fill in the gap between the under-priced MSRP and the optimal priced market.

After all, something is worth EXACTLY what someone will pay for it. If Scalpers can sell it for $3500, then it's worth $3500. If it wasn't, scalpers couldn't sell it and would have to lower prices..
 
KazeoHin said:
Scalpers are just the natural consequence of the supply/demand curve. If a product is available for a price that is substantially under-selling it's demand, Scalpers will come in and fill in the gap between the under-priced MSRP and the optimal priced market.

After all, something is worth EXACTLY what someone will pay for it. If Scalpers can sell it for $3500, then it's worth $3500. If it wasn't, scalpers couldn't sell it and would have to lower prices..
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I hear what your saying, but to me a RTX-5090 is worth MSRP and not a dime more. So if the FE is listed for $1899, then that's the price. It's not $3500, even if some fools are willing to pay that.

I was able to get myself an RTX-3080, and 2 RTX-3070's back around November 2020, only like two months after launch at my local Microcenter. And then I was able to get myself a RTX-4080 FE at Best Buy in December 2022, which was only a couple months after launch, and I recall seeing some 4080's on the shelves in Microcenter shortly after launch, but I wanted the FE.

So you can get these cards at local retailers at MSRP standard price. Maybe not the first week they go on sale, but a month or two later with some patience and always checking, you can get one.
 
pendragon1 said:
no theyre not. stop defending fucking scaplers.
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Not defending them, they're mosquitos: a pest that is a consequence of the environment. You don't see people scalping 4060s, Why? because Supply and demand.

ANYONE who has sat in an economics class for 5 minutes will tell you that supply and demand is a FACT not a hypothesis, not an idea, not a funny observation: it's a universal fact of life when looking at the exchange of finite resources.

When supply stays static, but demand goes up, the price will rise this is not the MSRP, this is not the general opinion of what the price should be, The. Price. The price is what the product actually trades hands for.

You saw it with Covid toilet paper. Are people scalping Toilet paper now? No. because demand went down. the MSRP matches The Price. But when demand went up, The Price of toilet paper went WAY up. The local grocery store could have raised prices to meet that demand, but they didn't, so magically everyone could afford it and nobody had any issues getting it, right!? Nope: instead, scalpers swooped in.

If the asking price of an item is well below The Price of the item, then the asking price will rise. Somewhere in the chain, the asking price will rise. you can't stop it. someone will raise their price. This is not a moral issue, this is not a political issue, this is a fact of life.

if the manufacturer does not raise their price, than the distributor will.

if the distributor doesn't raise their price, then the retailer will.

if the retailer does not raise their price, then someone will insert themselves into the chain to fill the price gap.

This is just FACT. It can't be avoided. You can make it illegal, but then you create black markets and make scalpers even MORE wealthy by bumping up demand even more due to lack of legal outlet.

The only way to eliminate scalpers is to ask an MSRP that is reflective of the product's supply/demand curve. Nvidia controls the supply, and we, the consumers, control the demand.
 
scalpers disrupt the supply and demand and all that is more rationalizing on how to defend them
 
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pendragon1 said:
scalper disrupt the supply and demand and all that is more rationalizing on how to defend them
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That would be lovely, but if scalpers couldn't sell their cards, (and we've seen bag-holding scalpers multiple times throughout history, even recently with post-mining cards) then they lower their prices, many times to the point of losing money overall.

What does that mean? That means Scalpers don't have some sort of evil magic ability to make things more expensive. they're merely a consequence of asking prices not reflecting the actual price of an item. I don't like them. I wouldn't be one myself, but I also don't try to blame them for Nvidia's purposeful supply constraints.
 
GoldenTiger said:
That looks like it says 1800 euro, not 2k? Not that anyone actually knows yet.
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and usually the USD price of electronic things is cheaper than the conversion rate.

PS5 pro for example
700 usd, 700 pound, 800 euro I think at launch. $1800 euro could mean $1699 USD easily and that would be a less than usual price gap I think.
 
KazeoHin said:
That would be lovely, but if scalpers couldn't sell their cards, (and we've seen bag-holding scalpers multiple times throughout history, even recently with post-mining cards) then they lower their prices, many times to the point of losing money overall.

What does that mean? That means Scalpers don't have some sort of evil magic ability to make things more expensive. they're merely a consequence of asking prices not reflecting the actual price of an item. I don't like them. I wouldn't be one myself, but I also don't try to blame them for Nvidia's purposeful supply constraints.
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You must be a dad....well said.
 
KazeoHin said:
That would be lovely, but if scalpers couldn't sell their cards, (and we've seen bag-holding scalpers multiple times throughout history, even recently with post-mining cards) then they lower their prices, many times to the point of losing money overall.

What does that mean? That means Scalpers don't have some sort of evil magic ability to make things more expensive. they're merely a consequence of asking prices not reflecting the actual price of an item. I don't like them. I wouldn't be one myself, but I also don't try to blame them for Nvidia's purposeful supply constraints.
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It's both though. While yes, part of scalpers are simply trying to match the supply curve to the demand curve, that isn't the whole story and they DO have an effect on prices. They impose an additional supply constraint, buying more than there is a demand for just so they can mark things up. In the same way empty houses contribute to a housing shortage, so do scalpers contribute to a GPU supply shortage. They DO make things worse, and they provide no value, so it is no surprise people don't like them.
 
KazeoHin said:
Not defending them, they're mosquitos: a pest that is a consequence of the environment. You don't see people scalping 4060s, Why? because Supply and demand.

ANYONE who has sat in an economics class for 5 minutes will tell you that supply and demand is a FACT not a hypothesis, not an idea, not a funny observation: it's a universal fact of life when looking at the exchange of finite resources.

When supply stays static, but demand goes up, the price will rise this is not the MSRP, this is not the general opinion of what the price should be, The. Price. The price is what the product actually trades hands for.

You saw it with Covid toilet paper. Are people scalping Toilet paper now? No. because demand went down. the MSRP matches The Price. But when demand went up, The Price of toilet paper went WAY up. The local grocery store could have raised prices to meet that demand, but they didn't, so magically everyone could afford it and nobody had any issues getting it, right!? Nope: instead, scalpers swooped in.

If the asking price of an item is well below The Price of the item, then the asking price will rise. Somewhere in the chain, the asking price will rise. you can't stop it. someone will raise their price. This is not a moral issue, this is not a political issue, this is a fact of life.

if the manufacturer does not raise their price, than the distributor will.

if the distributor doesn't raise their price, then the retailer will.

if the retailer does not raise their price, then someone will insert themselves into the chain to fill the price gap.

This is just FACT. It can't be avoided. You can make it illegal, but then you create black markets and make scalpers even MORE wealthy by bumping up demand even more due to lack of legal outlet.

The only way to eliminate scalpers is to ask an MSRP that is reflective of the product's supply/demand curve. Nvidia controls the supply, and we, the consumers, control the demand.
Click to expand...
It is perhaps worth noting that a lot of things are implicitly based on scalpers. Special or collector edition versions are intentionally limited production, limited supply with the idea that the collector will pay over standard MSRP to take advantage of the limited supply. Trading cards, if anyone has ever sold a trading card over msrp, they are scalpers. Hell, you could make the argument that buying stocks at IPO and then selling for profit is scalping. It is basically our entire market economy.

Like you KazoenHin, I am not a scalper because it is a lot of work, a decent amount of risk, and limited profit unless you have good volumes. But I don't hate scalpers, I do sometimes hate the game.
 
Sycraft said:
They impose an additional supply constraint, buying more than there is a demand for just so they can mark things up
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They are rarely have significant volume and do not have the capacity to coordinate (unlike say some diamond industry or the opep, those group can restraint volume to rise price without anyone breaking ranks), scalping is a very open game or many small players and they hold on supply that will only lose price and fast (or it is a good guess that it will) so they usually try to sales everything they get (sometime before they actually get possession of the items) really fast and if they move things fast enough they change nothing on the total offer volume.
 
Sycraft said:
It's both though. While yes, part of scalpers are simply trying to match the supply curve to the demand curve, that isn't the whole story and they DO have an effect on prices. They impose an additional supply constraint, buying more than there is a demand for just so they can mark things up. In the same way empty houses contribute to a housing shortage, so do scalpers contribute to a GPU supply shortage. They DO make things worse, and they provide no value, so it is no surprise people don't like them.
Click to expand...

I don't like them! But I also don't like mosquitoes, herpes, floods and other things that are simply facts of life.

As for an impact on the supply chain, once again, it requires significant investment into a business model to completely buy-out an entire product line, and the only reason someone would do that is if they could see the supply/demand disparity. And if they're wrong, they'll end up losing money, as we've seen in the past.

I've mentioned it before, but "Scalpers" aren't one big organization. They're individuals, maybe 4-person teams at the largest. So every inflated listing is competing with every other. So truth be told, they don't really have the convenience of "charging whatever they want". If they charge too much, a competing scalper can offer the same product for less and still make a profit. Not to mention, they have to eat, pay bills, and sell the product before demand dies down. Also, these are luxury products. You can live without a 5090. buying one is entirely optional, and how much you're willing to pay for one has an effect on how much they sell for. So you'll find that often times, the free-market of scalpers selling their wares is VERY indicative of the real market price.

Does that justify them? No more than our tasty blood justifies mosquitoes.

Once again, the real killer here is Nvidia, purposefully limiting supply to maximise their AI revenue.
 
1.1.2.3.5... said:
Can you blame them?
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I mean, this is why I wouldn't make a good CEO: I wouldn't be able to make decisions as if my own profit was the meaning of life when those decisions effect the outcomes of thousands of workers, hundreds of industries and millions of customers.

I just couldn't do it. At some point, enough money is enough, and I'd no longer want to squeeze every last drop of profit out of every corner of every option.
 
KazeoHin said:
I mean, this is why I wouldn't make a good CEO: I wouldn't be able to make decisions as if my own profit was the meaning of life when those decisions effect the outcomes of thousands of workers, hundreds of industries and millions of customers.

I just couldn't do it. At some point, enough money is enough, and I'd no longer want to squeeze every last drop of profit out of every corner of every option.
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Well, CEOs have an obligation to their shareholders. But, I would say the long term health of the company and a diversified product portfolio mitigates some risk. Therefore, Nvidia should sell to gamers, but maybe at a lower priority.
 
1.1.2.3.5... said:
Well, CEOs have an obligation to their shareholders. But, I would say the long term health of the company and a diversified product portfolio mitigates some risk. Therefore, Nvidia should sell to gamers, but maybe at a lower priority.
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That obligation to shareholders is exactly why I couldn't do it.

Shareholders are interested in perpetual exponential gains, no exceptions. They don't believe in the company, they believe in the money that company can make, usually in the short term. A publicly traded company does not serve it's customers, it serves its shareholders, and the customers are instead the product.

If I ever have a company, it will not be publicly traded.
 
KazeoHin said:
Snip.

Once again, the real killer here is Nvidia, purposefully limiting supply to maximise their AI revenue.
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This is just another tip of the hat to NV since they are doing the right thing for their business. Any company that wouldn't do the same would die eventually.

AMD does the same thing with their lower tier stuff. They need to sell high margin CPU's over their low tier GPU's.

Supply always goes to the high margin/higher demand products over lower margin/lower demand products.

I'm not seeing the issue here. Not a killer thing at all.
 
KazeoHin said:
Shareholders are interested in perpetual exponential gains, no exceptions. They don't believe in the company, they believe in the money that company can make, usually in the short term. A publicly traded company does not serve it's customers, it serves its shareholders, and the customers are instead the product.
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Perpetual exponential gain is not really the expression people think, 1% annual gain are perpetual exponential gains, private equity (or just not dying from inflation) is not less ruthless than that if you go that road.

And that sound to me to be a completely false view of stockholder, specially about the short term, giant amount of stock are own by very long horizon stockholder, vanguard, blackrock, statesttreet, fidelity, berkshire do not keep stock months, very often decades.

In fact every week you can find people that will complain about Tesla being worth more than Toyota-Ford-GM-Volks-Honda together beside selling less cars, because stockholder speculate too much on the future and not focused enough just on next month profits... or how much something was worth before making its first dollar and so on.

The nuance between believing in all of a company future profit actualized in today dollars (what stockholder believe in) and believing in a company is extremely small, it is quite aligned, same for serving your shareholders versus customer, it does not make the customer the product (not sure I get here), the product is the product they need to sales the customer who are the customer, serving the shareholders (i.e. making products that make profit) is very well aligned with serving the customer (or they will not buy it), it is again very well align and why that system created in the last 200 years so vast giant amount of value for the customer (and the shareholders), because it is almost 100% aligned, that what the system do, turning making money into delivering value to people and vice versa, making people with zero virtue or desire to help, helping other, taking advantage of human nature to work very hard helping perfect strangers you will never see in person.

If we look at the top 10 biggest stockholder of Nvidia in 2014 versus 2024 (or take any other company) lot of the names will be the same, look how the market react company getting into AI, it is not like those are for short term profit (usually mean lesser profit than not going into it the next quarter, it is a mid to long play for the saving to be higher than the spending and a long shot to turn out to be true)

1.1.2.3.5... said:
If you were profitable, you would either be forced to sell to private equity or lose to them.
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Does that describe Mars, Starlink, Koch, Cargill, Stripe, Valve, experience ? They are the lucky of the lucky.
 
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