24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

Discussion in 'Displays' started by mathesar, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    I just wanted to take a peek at it and its chromatic values so I can create FW900 profile for my HP DreamColor ;)

    Gamut correction is so nice it will correct all colors inside what your monitor can display. There will be some clipping if requested color is outside monitor gamut but for videos this should almost never happen as colors are usually more toned down and even if it do happen it is not really noticeable.
    Even if chromatic point of one of three primary colors is shifted slightly eg. green and have different hue and/or saturation then hue of almost all colors (if they have any green in them) will be affected, not only green.

    For FW900 and other Trinitrons the gamut error is small but definitely visible because it is also in green and we are most sensitive to green. Older videos should look fine on Trinitrons but from what I remember it isn't perfect match with Rec. 601 either (will compare it now :) ) and besides video player will detect video type and automatically correct colors so it is pretty automatic.

    I recommend using madVR for video playback. Other than great color correction is the only video renderer that have zero issues with perfect synchronization of videos to display and its upscaling capabilities are awesome. If you have not already give it a try. Many other players also have color correction including MPC-BE with which I use madVR.
     
  2. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    The file I gave you doesn't contain any chromatic information - it's less of a profile and more of instructions to video card.

    I hear you on gamut correction, but given that 601 is so close to 709, I'm not sure it's worth it - and as you say, there would be some clipping when the video calls for pure primaries (although as you say this isn't often, though with animated material it might show up more).

    I just measured my primaries, and interestingly, the red's most off relative to rec 709 (delta E of 5.5) - green was only delta E of 2.1 (blue was 2.6). Maybe i'll experiment with some gamut correction just to see what it's like.

    I do use madVR with MPC HC - hadn't heard of BE, will look into it :)
     
  3. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    BE is newer maintained version of HC with some fancy features. Mostly the same though, which is how I like this program. A little touch Windows 95 in Windows 10 :)
    Red you say... might be, still green was most noticeable.
    I wouldn't worry about clipping in this monitor. I haven't seen any when I used it and I also played games with gamut correction, games have lots of very saturated elements.
     
  4. CRT-Guru

    CRT-Guru n00b

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    I have had the same issue with not having proper VGA capability due to DVI-I going away in newer cards. Although, it's not an FW900, it's an e540 which is still pretty good. I was never lucky enough to get my hands on one. I already tried a displayport-VGA converter and a DVI-D->VGA converter and then came across this forum post with this adapter that recommended: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KLKQN9U/

    I still had the green dot artifacts ashun was having when I used 1280x1024@100hz so I looked into switching to YCbCr 4:4:4 however the option is not available to me. Only two RGB modes.

    I played around with CRU and was able to get 90hz, but still have washed out colors in all resolutions. It is very noticeable when playing darker games and increasing the brightness still leaves a low contrast image. I also discovered with further tinkering, I was able to get 100hz without artifacts by editing "detailed resolutions" and coming out with different sync values that cut the image off the outer bounds on the left hand side of the screen, so maybe it's possible? Any recommendation on timings for 1280x1024@100hz?

    Here are some images illustrating the issues with descriptions under each one: https://imgur.com/a/pq1RHL4

    Any help resolving this would be greatly appreciated.
     
  5. cdoublejj

    cdoublejj Limp Gawd

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    how do i force install drivers for win10 64 bit?
     
  6. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    Dumb question - but does this apply for all software you use, even games?
     
  7. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    I only play quakelive, and it definitely applies there. Also applies to watching movies. I've not found any software it doesn't apply to, but there may be some games or applications out there that reset the LUT.
     
  8. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    It will work for all desktop application and in games as long as you do not go full screen and use windowed mode or use "borderless windowed fullscreen". Games which do not reset LUT settings exists but are very rare... or at least were when I used calibration. I haven't touched this topic recently.
     
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  9. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    I use quakelive with full screen and it respects the LUT. But quakelive is an older game, and it also has console commands that allow you to control whether to respect gamma or not (i think the command is r_ignorehwgamma)
     
  10. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    also, I wonder whether icc profiles are more easily overridden compared to .cal files that are loaded by dispwin (which I think is what displayCal uses as a back end).
     
  11. Ashun

    Ashun n00b

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    CRT-Guru It's a shame you can't use YCbCr on your AMD card 'cause the Benfei works pretty well for how cheap it is... but only in YCbCr.

    I think your monitor is the same as my Dell P1130, and I'm able to lower the pixel clock into a region where the Benfei in RGB doesn't have the green artifacting by reducing the horizontal sync width down to 26.

    Using CRU's "Automatic - CRT Standard" for 1280x1024 at 100 Hz defaults to a horizontal sync width of 136 (total pixels = 1744) at a 189.6 MHz pixel clock. Dropping the HSW to 26 (total now = 1634) drops the pixel clock to 177.6 MHz. This works for me without any part of the image being cut off.
     
  12. CRT-Guru

    CRT-Guru n00b

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  13. cdoublejj

    cdoublejj Limp Gawd

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    i wonder if using the Sunix adapter will unlock more refresh rates and frequencies or with windows 10 do we have to add or force any resolution and refresh rate we want? it seems every other big update pushes me back to 60 hz.
     
  14. 3dfan

    3dfan [H]Lite

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    with the sunix is posible to achieve things like 2560 x 1600@72hz (max 68hz non sunix, from internal DAC) or 2560 x 1440@80hz (max 75hz non sunix, internal DAC) for example.

    those resolutions and refreshes were created via CRU or NVIDIA control panel, but going further than the FW900 hardware limit of 160hz was not posible from what i have tested with the sunix.

    all those were tested via windows 10 pro version 1709 64bit, havent tested from the latest 1809.....i never thought about the chance of later big update screwing custom resolution ability... hope there will be not restrictions, will have to test later about that properly



    as an additional note, browsing the CRT collective facebook group, seems someone already tested the Sunix with a RTX card (2070) and FW900 and works fine, not without some non critical issues others have experienced as well with other gen cards, Clipboard01.jpg
    i had that issue when tested from a GTX 760 Displayport Sunix, at 1920 x 1200@90hz as well, but was never a big deal issue, not even really distracting
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  15. CRT-Guru

    CRT-Guru n00b

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    Sunix adapter. I find this on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JARARNE Does anybody know if this works? None of them have meaningful specs. Already got bad info here on the benfei so I don't know...
     
  16. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    They are talking about the DPU3000 which has specs up to 2560x1600 at 60 hz supported on each output, fed through DP. It has some kind of Analogix chipset that is what allows it to perform at higher bandwidth. That one you linked is only 1920x1200 out of HDMI so probably only performs like the other known 1080p adapters, but at $12 there is no harm testing it out yourself. There is also a Delock something or other that is supposed to be good. Maybe the "DeLOCK 87685 video splitter" or other model no.

    Edit: DeLOCK 62967 is supposed to be good for 330 mhz. I don't know about the one above. It seems generally if they are said to support 2560x1600 that it is good for something at least. I doubt the Benfei was said to go up to that much.

    Here is a link for you if you did not find it via google shopping: https://www.grooves-inc.com/delock-...se-delock-adapter-cable-pZZa1-2097981290.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  17. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    That driver suite looks a lot newer than the one in the imgur pic you had.
     
  18. CRT-Guru

    CRT-Guru n00b

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    Their drivers are buggy. I used DDU to uninstall the ones that came on the disc and install new ones from the website, but it installed just the driver and none of the crimson/catalyst control panel.


    Also found that delock specs and it's a 270mhz pixel clock, but specifies no refresh rates other than 60hz. https://www.delock.de/produkte/G_62967/merkmale.html?setLanguage=en
     
  19. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    It's like overclocking. It may or may not go faster than specs allow. If it can do 2560x1600 at 60 hz vs 1920x1200 or less supported, well you can decide for yourself. This guy on reddit got 330 mhz at least:
     
  20. 3dfan

    3dfan [H]Lite

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    CRT-Guru, i would like to suggest you to search this thread words such "sunix", "delock" "plugable", etc to get more detailed info about digital to analog adapters that have been tested with the FW900 and other high end CRTs monitor by users and have reported their results and what to
    expect.

    also just emailing DAC adapter manufaturer to ask about specs or reading their specs on their pages does not seem too helpul since those employees seem to have only tested those adapters with VGA proyector or ordinary VGA monitors. so they use to specify specs lower than users here have tested by themselves (i dare to say those employees have never tested those on a FW900 or other high end CRT monitors).

     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  21. CRT-Guru

    CRT-Guru n00b

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    Thank you, 3dfan, for the advice. I will look further into those three brands, although sunix and delock are either very pricey or unavailable (or both). With a 400+ page thread, it's an exhausting read. I was hoping somebody solved this without having to buy an adapter that costs as much as the new video card. I have that regretting feeling I just wasted $200 on something that should have worked out of the box.
     
  22. Derupter

    Derupter Limp Gawd

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    What is the max resolution you use and what videocard do you have?
    USA or Europe market?
     
  23. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    The problem is that analog outputs do not exist anymore on video cards. That's not a problem anyone can "solve", the feature was simply removed due to the vast majority of people now using LCD screens with digital inputs.

    It's indeed a pity to have to spend 20 to 80€ in a proper VGA adapter but as you certainly discovered yourself, random cheap adapters are just as crappy as they are cheap. ;)
     
  24. CRT-Guru

    CRT-Guru n00b

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    Some are a bit better than others. One, I tried would not relay the EDID correctly when the monitor went to sleep and would either not wake, or show some oddball resolution. I find it odd how difficult it is to find an adapter that isn't trash as 20 years ago, even a cheap video card had a RAMDAC capable of way more than any of these.
     
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  25. crt_modern_user

    crt_modern_user n00b

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    Hi I'm new here. Just joined because some months ago I bought a Dell P1130 that have the over-too-brightness issue. I bought this adapter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-To-RS2...-USB-to-COM-Cable-Adapter-Module/201539573206) first to fit it, but WinDAS throw the "can't connect the monitor, please check bus line and condition". So then later I bought this other one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-MAX32...Module-DB9-Connector-w-cable-N43/172668127854) but I happen the same. Now with the PL2030 I installed diferent driver versions, but always the same result. And for the MAX3232 one, I don't know if I did something wrong with the connection... So please, please help me with this situation. This is getting really frustrating, mostly with the fact that where I live is rally hard to get this adapters.

    FYI, I requested some help on reddit and on The CRT Collective in facebook, but with no results.
     
  26. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    In WinDAS there's an option to configure which COM port to use. You have to select whichever port the adaptor is connected to. WinDAS only supports COM ports 1 through 4, so you have to ensure that the cable is plugged into a USB port that corresponds to one of those four ports. You can check this by connecting the adaptor to a USB port, then going to device manager and looking to see which COM port shows up for that device. You might even be able to remap a USB port to a particular COM port, but not sure - can't remember right now.

    Anyway, try what I suggested and let us know if that helps.
     
  27. Ashun

    Ashun n00b

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    crt_modern_user Check out this post I made on BlurBusters in 2014 about getting WinDAS to work for both an IBM P260 and a Dell P1130:

    https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=504

    Try spacediver's suggestion about the COM port. If that works, great! But I'm worried that your adapter is a knock-off Prolific chip, which was causing all the trouble I had in that post. I switched over to an Adafruit adapter ( https://www.adafruit.com/product/954 ), and everything worked flawlessly. It looks like they've updated the adapter to a SiLabs CP2012 chip since 2016, so I don't know how well that'll behave with WinDAS.
     
  28. crt_modern_user

    crt_modern_user n00b

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    I already had changed the COM port on a old PC both with Windows 2000 SP4 and Windows XP SP3+ (I used to upgrade to that SP4 pack) and only that message appears, no matter wich port I try. I also tried out on a Windows 7 laptop and do the same procidure and the same thing happen, except that when going to conf and just clicking OK, then go to "Save data to file" it "appears to work", but WinDAS crashes. I start WinDAS again, go to save data to file and then nothing happened, just that message.

    Hi Ashun, I had saw that post some time ago before join in to Hard Forum. Well I also suspect that the PL2030 is a knock off... Accordding to the adafruit site, they say that originally they were shipping adapters similar to the one I bought (https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-To-RS2...-USB-to-COM-Cable-Adapter-Module/201539573206), then they changed to this simillar one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-P...load-Cable-for-WIN10-AVR-MCU-ARM/202569618456), and finally to this other one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-C...Download-Cable-For-WIN10-AVR-MCU/312426059276). I guess you are suggesting me the blue one with the PL2030TA chip one, so I wil taking in count.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So that's why I bought this other adapter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-MAX32...Module-DB9-Connector-w-cable-N43/172668127854)(scroll down, the item is there) to see if I can do something, but the same thing happened. Again I don't know if is not being reconized on my PC so maybe I omited a step, or is not the propper adapter, I'm just sayng. Acorrding to The CRT Collective and Wikipedia, the best adapters are the ones that comes with a FTDI chip. The guy of the Trinitron Madness video (https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=xH4fKpKLkBM) used this adapter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/6Pin-USB-2...-CP2102-STC-Replace-Ft232-Module/401092508083), I guess. Which contains a CP chip and worked for him.

    Before I bought the MAX3232 adapter I wanted to buy this 2 other ones: this adapter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/6PIN-FTDI-...Serial-Adapter-Cable-for-Arduino/401650523561) wich the seller claims that is original and have a FTDI chip and this other monster (https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-to-Ser...Converter-Module-FTDI-FT232BM-BL/401707225351), wich also have a FTDI chip and have some other plugs. But I don't have too money and because of my location, I have to pay extra taxes and shipping so I just want to buy the propper adapter.

    Anayway, what do you think about those ones, and also what about the MAX3232 one that I bought? Is the propper one, or those dosen't work with WinDAS?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  29. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    I remember that blurbusters post Ashun - and wow it's been 5 years!
     
  30. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    The Ebay reviews say to use an older driver for the fake/outdated chip.
     
  31. crt_modern_user

    crt_modern_user n00b

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    I tried your suggestion, but nothing... I have tried diferent versions, one of 2007 (your suggestion, i guess: http://www.totalcardiagnostics.com/...serial-fix-official-solution-to-code-10-error) other ones from 2009 (http://wp.brodzinski.net/wp-content...3_Drivers-Generic_Windows_PL2303_Prolific.zip) and of 2013(http://www.prolific.com.tw/UserFiles/files/PL2303_Prolific_DriverInstaller_v1_8_0.zip), finally one from 2018 directly from the Prolific webpage.

    Againg the problem is the adapter, 'cause I also had tested several version of WinDAS and with the same result...
     
  32. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    Did you connect the adapter properly in the first place ? The TXD pin on the monitor needs to be connected to the RXD one on the adapter and RXD on the monitor to TXD on the adapter.

    Regarding the adapter I use this one:
    https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B00AFRXKFU

    Chip Silabs CP2102, that was the first one I tried and it worked with the drivers provided by the chip manufacturer. Mine are from 2015 for Windows 7.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  33. crt_modern_user

    crt_modern_user n00b

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    Sure, I also tried switching he cables several times and nothing... I bought that adapter after I saw this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= 34AP-6I_ti8).

    Also another thing that I want to report is the fact that recently, my P1130 is having some slow starts, so I just hope the problem is not that deep...
     
  34. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    Probably should save your time and money and get one that is not from the original seller who sold you the junk adapter, unless they are willing to give you a replacement.
     
  35. crt_modern_user

    crt_modern_user n00b

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    Well, I'm using his eBay store stock just for a reference only :), but the seller said to me that if I buy an item from him again, give a reminder for a replacement. Also the MAX3232 that I bought were from another seller.
     
  36. cdoublejj

    cdoublejj Limp Gawd

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    It seems to reset shit after big updates. i'm also contemplating a move to a linux, i think it lets you just specify what the hell ever and tries to actually push the change with real check. i'll be happy to run over 80hz @ 2304 x 1440. has anyone tried higher than 80hz @ 2304 x 1440? Soundsl iek it could maybe manage a smidge more @ 2304 vs 2560. also why 2560? isn't the aspect ratio changed a bit @ 2560?
     
  37. CommandoSnake

    CommandoSnake n00b

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    What Samsung model was it? The PG279Q handles ULMB mode well, though it isn't as bright as it is with ULMB off.
     
  38. 3dfan

    3dfan [H]Lite

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    dont think its posible to get higher than 80hz @ 2304 x 1440 (progresive of course), 120.6 KHZ is reported on my FW900 at that res and the the limit of the horizontal frequency is around 121 KHZ max from what i know, and going to 81HZ goes out of range with a horizontal frecuency of 122.2 KHZ, even when the pixel clock is 388 MHZ, below the max 400 MHZ limit of a integrated DAC, so not even a sunix adapter around 500 pixel clock would seem to help in that case.

    as for why 2560, 2560x1440, in my case, since it is a 16:9 aspect ratio res, i would prefer to use it and other 16:9 resolutions for some modern games that no longer support 16:10 aspect ratio properly and would create a large letter box when using that, against a 16:9 res which for those games creates a less notable letterbox on the FW900.

    also i like to play some of those 16:9 only games stretched and the stretching wont be as much notable to my likes that would be using a 16:10 aspect ratio resolutions on those.
     
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  39. Flybye

    Flybye Limp Gawd

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    So what options do we have now that the DPU3000-D3 is no longer available?

    I have enjoyed my FW900 at 2304x1440 @ 80hz for a very long time, but I will not be able to keep buying a 980Ti for ever!

    Has anyone even considered going to an LCD that comes close to the FW900?
     
  40. crt_modern_user

    crt_modern_user n00b

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    Little question: I should plug the +5V cable of the usb to ttl adapter on the back to the monitor? I mean, this guy (https://youtu.be/ xH4fKpKLkBM?t=582) didn't connected to his monitor and it seems to works fine.