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24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

Hi all,

I was recently given an HP A7217A rebadge by someone that wasn’t using it. The monitor was working until they dropped it. Now when I turn it on it makes the power up noise, immediately followed by the “clicking” noise that normally happens when a CRT is turned off. The monitor light turns green when I turn it on, then turns orange after a couple of seconds like normal, but at no point is any image displayed on the screen. Any idea on what I should look into to try to fix it? I disassembled it and other than the front bezel having some broken plastic, it doesn’t look like any electronics or the actual tube broke from the fall, but I can’t tell what’s wrong.

Here’s a video of the monitor when powered on. (The green light turns to orange after about 10 seconds.)
 
Check the cables, one could have been disconnected by the shock, especially the white flat ones.

Regarding the flat cables, when you connect/unconnect them, hold the rigid end between your fingers and push that way, do not push on the top of the rigid part toward the connector. It may seem easier that way but you'll eventually bend the cable and damage tracks after several plugging/unplugging operations.
 
ranch2 said:
I was recently given an HP A7217A rebadge by someone that wasn’t using it. The monitor was working until they dropped it.
Click to expand...
Something inside me died too :(

Removing boards, cleaning dust off and reassembling everything might help. You might also want to use contact cleaner and also look all the boards closely for broken connections and or components. Hopefully just some connection between boards loosened...
There should be no static charge build up since the tube doesn't start but I would suggest using all precautions when dealing with CRT anyway.
Of if you never worked with electronics it might be a good idea to look for someone who can repair CRTs?
 
the sunix arrived, the one bought from the link provided by jka.
it came with the mini DP to Mini DP and USB to micro B for power cables, glad i took precautions and specially ordered the mini DP to DP cable.

so far my test with the sunix have been very limited since right now i dont have a video card with DP output to test, however i quick tested with the DP port integrated in the motherboard to use with the intel HD 4600 cpu integrated graphics and results seems promising: so far i tested with 1920 x 1200 @ 96hz and the image looks just as good and stable as by using the analog VGA port and also latency feels as good too, i had to use the aditional USB power to the sunix, otherwise the FW900 never displayed any image not even at bios boot and the sunix LED just keept flashing.

i had to create that resolution using the intel control panel custom resolution, CRU never worked with this intel HD IGPU, but it also never worked with it even by using the VGA port. nothing important since of course i will not further use the sunix with this crappy IGPU :dead:.

funny though while using the sunix, the monitor was sometime detected as a digital "VMM2300 DEMO" monitor and sometimes as sony FW900 digital monitor, when detected as FW900 was more flexible to create custom resolutions from intel CP, i guess it can be due to how the sunix read the EDID depending on the order of how i boot the PC and sunix, as some users suggessted some time ago here.

the next step is to get this week a borrowed nvidia GTX 760 that has a DP to further and longer tests while i take a decision on getting a modern video card.



EDIT:

after some couple of test with a gtx 760 for about a week, i experienced what some users have reported:


some artifacts at the top of the screen such a thin horizontal line at certain resolutions such 1920 x 1200 90hz that appeared after a while of using it, not distracting fortunately

sometimes the image getting splitted in half. (happened 2 times)

at 2048 x 1536 55hz sometimes the monitor lost signal, first i thought could be due to the refresh ending in "5" but in this case i suspect it could be related to sunix usb power cable, since i started to use the one i bought from amazon basics and this issue never happened again.

other issues however such some times ripplin effect, image split in half, artifact at the top of screen at some resolutions still happend, but not to frequent at certain resolutions, since i tested about 2 hours of gaming at a combination of a high resolution - refresh rate posible such 2560x1600@72hz and it never failed, not artifacted not any issues and the adapter did not get hot, so those random issues seem related to certain resolutions - refreshes as reported by others.


the adapter detected the monitor properly, as a GDM-FW900 as long as i power everything on in the correct secuence, like turn the monitor on while being connected to sunix, then, power the sunix and last the pc and was able to use resolutions created via CRU exactly as i am able via direct VGA connection to the NVIDIA card, otherwise it was detected as VMM2300 DEMO and ignored CRU, however when that happened the workarround was to create the res via NVIDIA control panel and problem solved, (seems AMD users have had more issues with the monitor being correclty detected and use custom resolutions with the sunix than NVIDIA users)

at any case, i always needed to use the power cable for the sunix, it never worked witthout external power
 
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Strat_84 said:
Check the cables, one could have been disconnected by the shock, especially the white flat ones.

Regarding the flat cables, when you connect/unconnect them, hold the rigid end between your fingers and push that way, do not push on the top of the rigid part toward the connector. It may seem easier that way but you'll eventually bend the cable and damage tracks after several plugging/unplugging operations.
Click to expand...
As a 2nd thought, 2 others things can be easily checked and may fix the issue or help to find out what's wrong:
1°) check that the little card at the neck of the tube is still well plugged (given the weight it's actually more likely than any cable to slightly unplug )
2°) start the monitor and make sure you can see 3 filaments glowing orange in the neck of the tube. If I remember well, glowing another color (blue ?) means air got inside the tube and it is dead.
 
Strat_84 said:
As a 2nd thought, 2 others things can be easily checked and may fix the issue or help to find out what's wrong:
1°) check that the little card at the neck of the tube is still well plugged (given the weight it's actually more likely than any cable to slightly unplug )
2°) start the monitor and make sure you can see 3 filaments glowing orange in the neck of the tube. If I remember well, glowing another color (blue ?) means air got inside the tube and it is dead.
Click to expand...

When I started the monitor I didn’t see the filaments glowing at all at the neck of the tube. I’m gonna unscrew more of the metal casing to get a better look inside this weekend, this is what I’ve seen so far, I can’t seem to find anything that looks unplugged or out of place.


www.imgur.com/a/GfY6NPj
 
No filament glowing -> that means an issue with the heater, possibly no heater voltage provided to the tube. You don't need to dismantle anything else yet.

1°) push a little on the little card on the neck of the tube to make sure it is well plugged. According to the pictures it is, but better be sure of it.
2°) make sure the plug is well connected in connector CN405 on the A board (unplug, replug)

If this doesn't work, check the heater voltage on the appropriate top connector of the G board (putting the probe on the thin bare metal surface corresponding to the right wire, connector CN652). Warning: this has to be done with monitor on, don't touch anything else and don't shake, if you put the probe in contact with 2 of those thin metal surfaces or the one you're measuring and the chassis you'll fry something. Expected voltage: about 5V. If you find this, the heater power supply is OK, if not the culprit is there.
 
Just calibrated the FW900 again after a LONG time. Set the G2 for nice deep blacks, ran through WPB, and then used the following in ArgyllCMS:

dispcal -m -qm -J -F -G2.4 -f0

I also created a profile with G2.2 for stuff that's mastered at a lower gamma.

My goodness, I forgot how beautiful this monitor is. I've shown it to 3 friends who've never seen it before, and they were all very impressed with how much contrast and dynamic range there was. The level of detail is spectacular on well mastered material.
 
@spacediver
After long time of tinkering with this dilemma which gamma to use for which content and reading articles which didn't give straight answers (display gamma should depend on ambient light and for content creation should be lower than for its consumption...) I decided to take Buddha's "middle way" approach and added 2.2 to 2.4 and divided by two =) Since then I have no issues with gamma and it always look better than either 2.2 or 2.4, especially when gamma seems to change between scenes during one video. It always look just rigt.
I recommend you give 2.3 a try :)

Could you upload created profile?
Also do you use gamut correction for videos? Trinitrons compared to reference have slightly different colors, especially on green hues and gamut correction fixes that nicely.
 
Yea I suppose I could create a 2.3 as a compromise.

I can upload a calibration LUT but keep in mind that this will produce quite different results on another tube (both with respect to white point and with respect to gamma).

Can't really do gamut correction with 1D LUTs, and if I'm not mistaken, the trinitron BVM phosphors are not as saturated as rec 709, so even with 3d luts you'd never be able to achieve a proper HD gamut (which is fine, they're very close).
 
I just wanted to take a peek at it and its chromatic values so I can create FW900 profile for my HP DreamColor ;)

Gamut correction is so nice it will correct all colors inside what your monitor can display. There will be some clipping if requested color is outside monitor gamut but for videos this should almost never happen as colors are usually more toned down and even if it do happen it is not really noticeable.
Even if chromatic point of one of three primary colors is shifted slightly eg. green and have different hue and/or saturation then hue of almost all colors (if they have any green in them) will be affected, not only green.

For FW900 and other Trinitrons the gamut error is small but definitely visible because it is also in green and we are most sensitive to green. Older videos should look fine on Trinitrons but from what I remember it isn't perfect match with Rec. 601 either (will compare it now :) ) and besides video player will detect video type and automatically correct colors so it is pretty automatic.

I recommend using madVR for video playback. Other than great color correction is the only video renderer that have zero issues with perfect synchronization of videos to display and its upscaling capabilities are awesome. If you have not already give it a try. Many other players also have color correction including MPC-BE with which I use madVR.
 
The file I gave you doesn't contain any chromatic information - it's less of a profile and more of instructions to video card.

I hear you on gamut correction, but given that 601 is so close to 709, I'm not sure it's worth it - and as you say, there would be some clipping when the video calls for pure primaries (although as you say this isn't often, though with animated material it might show up more).

I just measured my primaries, and interestingly, the red's most off relative to rec 709 (delta E of 5.5) - green was only delta E of 2.1 (blue was 2.6). Maybe i'll experiment with some gamut correction just to see what it's like.

I do use madVR with MPC HC - hadn't heard of BE, will look into it :)
 
BE is newer maintained version of HC with some fancy features. Mostly the same though, which is how I like this program. A little touch Windows 95 in Windows 10 :)
Red you say... might be, still green was most noticeable.
I wouldn't worry about clipping in this monitor. I haven't seen any when I used it and I also played games with gamut correction, games have lots of very saturated elements.
 
CommandoSnake said:
Hi guys,

So I bought this adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KLKQN9U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, and I have to say that it works fairly well on my FW900. There are some bugs with the nvidia control panel in selecting certain resolutions, but it's able to match my direct VGA output from my gtx 660M. I am able to hit 1900 by 1200 @ 95 hz refresh rate through the adapter, which is the same max bandwidth direct VGA is able to reach. What's even more interesting is that I measured the input latency between both of my FW900s, one using this adapter, and the other using direct VGA out, and the input latency is pretty much the same between the two, surprisingly. I can post a ultra slowmo video if anyone is interested.

Since my 1080 Ti only has one HDMI out, does anyone recommend a DisplayPort to VGA active adapter with 0 input latency and high res support (that matches this HDMI to vga adapter)? Random question regarding Windas, does anyone know if I can adjust the geometry (horizontal pin cushion) so that I can make it look as square as possible? As well as the horizontal convergence more than the OSD supports?
Click to expand...

I have had the same issue with not having proper VGA capability due to DVI-I going away in newer cards. Although, it's not an FW900, it's an e540 which is still pretty good. I was never lucky enough to get my hands on one. I already tried a displayport-VGA converter and a DVI-D->VGA converter and then came across this forum post with this adapter that recommended: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KLKQN9U/

I still had the green dot artifacts ashun was having when I used 1280x1024@100hz so I looked into switching to YCbCr 4:4:4 however the option is not available to me. Only two RGB modes.

I played around with CRU and was able to get 90hz, but still have washed out colors in all resolutions. It is very noticeable when playing darker games and increasing the brightness still leaves a low contrast image. I also discovered with further tinkering, I was able to get 100hz without artifacts by editing "detailed resolutions" and coming out with different sync values that cut the image off the outer bounds on the left hand side of the screen, so maybe it's possible? Any recommendation on timings for 1280x1024@100hz?

Here are some images illustrating the issues with descriptions under each one: https://imgur.com/a/pq1RHL4

Any help resolving this would be greatly appreciated.
 
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spacediver said:
Just calibrated the FW900 again after a LONG time. Set the G2 for nice deep blacks, ran through WPB, and then used the following in ArgyllCMS:

dispcal -m -qm -J -F -G2.4 -f0

I also created a profile with G2.2 for stuff that's mastered at a lower gamma.

My goodness, I forgot how beautiful this monitor is. I've shown it to 3 friends who've never seen it before, and they were all very impressed with how much contrast and dynamic range there was. The level of detail is spectacular on well mastered material.
Click to expand...

Dumb question - but does this apply for all software you use, even games?
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Dumb question - but does this apply for all software you use, even games?
Click to expand...

I only play quakelive, and it definitely applies there. Also applies to watching movies. I've not found any software it doesn't apply to, but there may be some games or applications out there that reset the LUT.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Dumb question - but does this apply for all software you use, even games?
Click to expand...
It will work for all desktop application and in games as long as you do not go full screen and use windowed mode or use "borderless windowed fullscreen". Games which do not reset LUT settings exists but are very rare... or at least were when I used calibration. I haven't touched this topic recently.
 
I use quakelive with full screen and it respects the LUT. But quakelive is an older game, and it also has console commands that allow you to control whether to respect gamma or not (i think the command is r_ignorehwgamma)
 
also, I wonder whether icc profiles are more easily overridden compared to .cal files that are loaded by dispwin (which I think is what displayCal uses as a back end).
 
CRT-Guru It's a shame you can't use YCbCr on your AMD card 'cause the Benfei works pretty well for how cheap it is... but only in YCbCr.

I think your monitor is the same as my Dell P1130, and I'm able to lower the pixel clock into a region where the Benfei in RGB doesn't have the green artifacting by reducing the horizontal sync width down to 26.

Using CRU's "Automatic - CRT Standard" for 1280x1024 at 100 Hz defaults to a horizontal sync width of 136 (total pixels = 1744) at a 189.6 MHz pixel clock. Dropping the HSW to 26 (total now = 1634) drops the pixel clock to 177.6 MHz. This works for me without any part of the image being cut off.
 
i wonder if using the Sunix adapter will unlock more refresh rates and frequencies or with windows 10 do we have to add or force any resolution and refresh rate we want? it seems every other big update pushes me back to 60 hz.
 
with the sunix is posible to achieve things like 2560 x 1600@72hz (max 68hz non sunix, from internal DAC) or 2560 x 1440@80hz (max 75hz non sunix, internal DAC) for example.

those resolutions and refreshes were created via CRU or NVIDIA control panel, but going further than the FW900 hardware limit of 160hz was not posible from what i have tested with the sunix.

all those were tested via windows 10 pro version 1709 64bit, havent tested from the latest 1809.....i never thought about the chance of later big update screwing custom resolution ability... hope there will be not restrictions, will have to test later about that properly



as an additional note, browsing the CRT collective facebook group, seems someone already tested the Sunix with a RTX card (2070) and FW900 and works fine, not without some non critical issues others have experienced as well with other gen cards,
Clipboard01.jpg

i had that issue when tested from a GTX 760 Displayport Sunix, at 1920 x 1200@90hz as well, but was never a big deal issue, not even really distracting
 
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CRT-Guru said:
Sunix adapter. I find this on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JARARNE Does anybody know if this works? None of them have meaningful specs. Already got bad info here on the benfei so I don't know...
Click to expand...
They are talking about the DPU3000 which has specs up to 2560x1600 at 60 hz supported on each output, fed through DP. It has some kind of Analogix chipset that is what allows it to perform at higher bandwidth. That one you linked is only 1920x1200 out of HDMI so probably only performs like the other known 1080p adapters, but at $12 there is no harm testing it out yourself. There is also a Delock something or other that is supposed to be good. Maybe the "DeLOCK 87685 video splitter" or other model no.

Edit: DeLOCK 62967 is supposed to be good for 330 mhz. I don't know about the one above. It seems generally if they are said to support 2560x1600 that it is good for something at least. I doubt the Benfei was said to go up to that much.

Here is a link for you if you did not find it via google shopping: https://www.grooves-inc.com/delock-...se-delock-adapter-cable-pZZa1-2097981290.html
 
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CRT-Guru said:
Their drivers are buggy. I used DDU to uninstall the ones that came on the disc and install new ones from the website, but it installed just the driver and none of the crimson/catalyst control panel.


Also found that delock specs and it's a 270mhz pixel clock, but specifies no refresh rates other than 60hz. https://www.delock.de/produkte/G_62967/merkmale.html?setLanguage=en
Click to expand...
It's like overclocking. It may or may not go faster than specs allow. If it can do 2560x1600 at 60 hz vs 1920x1200 or less supported, well you can decide for yourself. This guy on reddit got 330 mhz at least:
 
CRT-Guru, i would like to suggest you to search this thread words such "sunix", "delock" "plugable", etc to get more detailed info about digital to analog adapters that have been tested with the FW900 and other high end CRTs monitor by users and have reported their results and what to
expect.

also just emailing DAC adapter manufaturer to ask about specs or reading their specs on their pages does not seem too helpul since those employees seem to have only tested those adapters with VGA proyector or ordinary VGA monitors. so they use to specify specs lower than users here have tested by themselves (i dare to say those employees have never tested those on a FW900 or other high end CRT monitors).

 
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Thank you, 3dfan, for the advice. I will look further into those three brands, although sunix and delock are either very pricey or unavailable (or both). With a 400+ page thread, it's an exhausting read. I was hoping somebody solved this without having to buy an adapter that costs as much as the new video card. I have that regretting feeling I just wasted $200 on something that should have worked out of the box.
 
CRT-Guru said:
Thank you, 3dfan, for the advice. I will look further into those three brands, although sunix and delock are either very pricey or unavailable (or both). With a 400+ page thread, it's an exhausting read. I was hoping somebody solved this without having to buy an adapter that costs as much as the new video card. I have that regretting feeling I just wasted $200 on something that should have worked out of the box.
Click to expand...

What is the max resolution you use and what videocard do you have?
USA or Europe market?
 
CRT-Guru said:
Thank you, 3dfan, for the advice. I will look further into those three brands, although sunix and delock are either very pricey or unavailable (or both). With a 400+ page thread, it's an exhausting read. I was hoping somebody solved this without having to buy an adapter that costs as much as the new video card. I have that regretting feeling I just wasted $200 on something that should have worked out of the box.
Click to expand...
The problem is that analog outputs do not exist anymore on video cards. That's not a problem anyone can "solve", the feature was simply removed due to the vast majority of people now using LCD screens with digital inputs.

It's indeed a pity to have to spend 20 to 80€ in a proper VGA adapter but as you certainly discovered yourself, random cheap adapters are just as crappy as they are cheap. ;)
 
Strat_84 said:
The problem is that analog outputs do not exist anymore on video cards. That's not a problem anyone can "solve", the feature was simply removed due to the vast majority of people now using LCD screens with digital inputs.

It's indeed a pity to have to spend 20 to 80€ in a proper VGA adapter but as you certainly discovered yourself, random cheap adapters are just as crappy as they are cheap. ;)
Click to expand...

Some are a bit better than others. One, I tried would not relay the EDID correctly when the monitor went to sleep and would either not wake, or show some oddball resolution. I find it odd how difficult it is to find an adapter that isn't trash as 20 years ago, even a cheap video card had a RAMDAC capable of way more than any of these.
 
Hi I'm new here. Just joined because some months ago I bought a Dell P1130 that have the over-too-brightness issue. I bought this adapter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-To-RS2...-USB-to-COM-Cable-Adapter-Module/201539573206) first to fit it, but WinDAS throw the "can't connect the monitor, please check bus line and condition". So then later I bought this other one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-MAX32...Module-DB9-Connector-w-cable-N43/172668127854) but I happen the same. Now with the PL2030 I installed diferent driver versions, but always the same result. And for the MAX3232 one, I don't know if I did something wrong with the connection... So please, please help me with this situation. This is getting really frustrating, mostly with the fact that where I live is rally hard to get this adapters.

FYI, I requested some help on reddit and on The CRT Collective in facebook, but with no results.
 
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