LG decided to ship the 48” to Aus finally due to the high demand. First batch is only available through LG at a high premium (can’t blame them for taking advantage of the situation). So maybe in January I can join the ranks of the owners if the price normalises here.
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LG 48CX
- Thread starter gan7114
- Start date
I think you need to maintain ~200-300fps for it to be worth turning off g/vysnc and not have BFI screw things up.
Half-Life 1 and CS 1.6 at 1080p never looked more beautiful thanks to BFI....... after sunset or in a basement
AFAIK the Series X and PS5 are also going to have HDMI 2.1 broken on arrival.
The Denon AV receivers do not have functional HDMI 2.1 yet.
Sorry to be such a debbie downer but I see a lot of people here conflating specs and theory with actual functionality.
And the real controversy here is if all these manufacturers were in cahoots about only doing 40gpbs on HDMI 2.1 why did we have to wait so long to be told by LG that we didn't have 48gpbs.
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As long as you're at 2m or below I think any cable labeled HDMI 2.1 should be a non-issue
What's all this nonsense about HDMI 2.1 cables? More marketing BS to sell new cables. It's LITERALLY the same cable, 19 pins.
The rate is increasing only from 6Gbps to 12Gbps for each of the three existing data wire triplets (two data, one shield).
The new standard re-tasks a wire triplet that had been dedicated to clock signals, as a fourth 12Gbps data conduit. The clock signals will now piggyback as metadata. This is all done in a new arrangement is called a Fixed Rate Link (FRL) and is used for uncompressed data streams.
Literally any high quality HDMI cable of the past (and likely one you already have) that has decent shielding, would work fine with HDMI 2.1 speeds.
The rate is increasing only from 6Gbps to 12Gbps for each of the three existing data wire triplets (two data, one shield).
The new standard re-tasks a wire triplet that had been dedicated to clock signals, as a fourth 12Gbps data conduit. The clock signals will now piggyback as metadata. This is all done in a new arrangement is called a Fixed Rate Link (FRL) and is used for uncompressed data streams.
Literally any high quality HDMI cable of the past (and likely one you already have) that has decent shielding, would work fine with HDMI 2.1 speeds.
mirkendargen
Limp Gawd
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Why on earth would you need 200-300FPS on a 120Hz panel? I don't think you know what G-Sync actually does... What is BFI "screwing up" at 120fps...?
"Has decent shielding" is one of the key factors here. As is the quality of the wires - depending on the length.
I have several low cost junk HDMI cables here that won't even do 1080p60 at 5m+ and one cable that won't even do 4k60 at 2m..
But basically what you say: any decent quality cable should do, especially at 2m or below. If you need a new one anyways I wouldn't skimp on the extra 3$ and get one that claims to do 48gb/s and just return it if it turns out to be junk..
What exactly do you mean by "broken" here? Surely the new Denon series will work just fine with HDMI 2.1? Or are you saying they need firmware updates to enable that functionality and that if you hook them up to a LG CX or C9 you won't get 4K 120 Hz etc?
I've been trying to buy one in Spain for nearly 3 months and nowhere has stock. I knew demand would be high but I never anticipated how low the supply would be
mirkendargen
Limp Gawd
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Just more 40Gbps fearmongering I think.
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If the panels don’t do 12bit anyway I fail to see why this was ever an issue. 
It doesn't even have functional VRR pass-through yet.
Most of the receivers will not have HDMI 2.1 officially enabled for months and it will only be on one of the inputs.
If you even know somebody that has a CX, denon 2020, and ampere card let me know.
Let's say you paid $50 for a gold plated HDMI monster cable even though you knew there wasn't a chance it would make any difference over the $5. Let's then say you found out that the $50 cable doesn't have gold plating and is actually an exact duplicate of the $5 cable. You are saying because there is not real world functional difference you wouldn't be upset in the slightest?
We still have a ways to go until we elucidate all of the consequences of not getting a 48gps C9 quality HDMI 2.1. Obviously in theory, even accounting for improved rounding errors from a 12bit signal, there should not be a real world difference on a 10-bit display. But I'm just saying that right now, our budget HDMI 2.1 ports are beginning to get that shit smell, and I hope I'm wrong and some updates magically fix everything.
By broken I mean I highly doubt the consoles will be fully HDMI 2.1 ready at launch. We shall see.
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mirkendargen
Limp Gawd
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Serious question. Why would anyone try to passthru a VRR signal on a HDMI 2.1 receiver when eARC is a thing (and there aren't any HDMI 2.1 receivers that don't also support eARC)? Even if everything works perfectly you're adding latency to the signal you don't need to.
I hate to answer a question with a question but what's the point of getting a HDMI 2.1 receiver if you are just going to use eARC. We got into this because I said HDMI 2.1 isn't functional yet on Denon, I didn't say I recommend using it. To more directly answer your question there's issues with eARC on CX like DTS support etc.
mirkendargen
Limp Gawd
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Because eARC and HDMI 2.1 were introduced the same year on most receivers...so if you get an eARC receiver you have an HDMI 2.1 receiver and vice versa. I highly doubt anyone that has one of the few eARC receivers that doesn't support HDMI 2.1 is going out and buying an HDMI 2.1 receiver, they shouldn't. And I thought the CX "DTS issue" purely related to the built in apps and not external sources, so not relevant to eARC vs. passthru.
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Everything you just said is wrong in the universe that I exist in (except for that people shouldn't go buy a 2.1 if they have eARC).
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The EDID on the CX exposes only Stereo and not 7.1. I'm not sure if modding the EDID will let it successfully passthrough 7.1 via eARC. It won't passthrough DTS via eARC even with an EDID mod.
A HDMI 2.1 AVR with VRR passthrough is the only option. If G-SYNC / FreeSync falls back to standard VRR through the AVR, we may be forced back to using extended desktop with a second HDMI cable for audio, in which case HDMI 2.0 is sufficient.
mirkendargen
Limp Gawd
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Interesting, I haven't tested (no eARC receiver) but some people on AVS say otherwise. Are there any reasonably common DTS external sources that can't just decode to LPCM on their own?
Makeroflostsouls
2[H]4U
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Not sure why people want eARC so bad. It’s still crap lol. Still no proper bitstream for all audio formats. Fine for stereo or something but not if you want the best sound from games or blu-ray. I can still hear a difference on just Netflix let alone from my Plex server with full bit rate blu-ray and 4k rips.
mirkendargen
Limp Gawd
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Because I (and I assume others) want my audio receiver to stay the hell away from video, lol.
The *potential* issue was that older NVIDIA drivers only supported 8-bit and 12-bit over HDMI, so there was a possibility 40Gbps ports would have been limited to 4k120 8-bit output. A bunch of us raised a stink on the NVIDIA forums, and they eventually added 10-bit over HDMI making things a non-issue.If the panels don’t do 12bit anyway I fail to see why this was ever an issue.
Ok, just wall mounted my new 48CX... This thing is perfect for seating distance of 4' (which is a bit shorter than the recommended distance of 4.8' by THX)
Happy to report that my unit passed all tests with flying colors: no dead pixels and no noticeable uniformity issue (banding, vignetting, blotches, etc.).
This is my 3rd OLED and is the cleanest. My 2017 55" had banding and my 2019 65" had some vignetting... nothing of the sort here... This is in line with the fact that larger OLED (65", 77") are more prone to uniformity issues than their smaller siblings.
Now, just need to find a 3080 to unlock the full potential of this beast.
Happy to report that my unit passed all tests with flying colors: no dead pixels and no noticeable uniformity issue (banding, vignetting, blotches, etc.).
This is my 3rd OLED and is the cleanest. My 2017 55" had banding and my 2019 65" had some vignetting... nothing of the sort here... This is in line with the fact that larger OLED (65", 77") are more prone to uniformity issues than their smaller siblings.
Now, just need to find a 3080 to unlock the full potential of this beast.
This is not correct. I have 5.1 Dolby Surround to my Denon right now through eArc.
EDIT: I made a few posts about this earlier in the thread with a picture here.
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And you've only accomplished this while using Tidal and still have to reset it every time you boot? Also what specific receiver are you using?
Denon AVR X3400H
However, I just ran the Dolby channel check movie and it is sending 2.1 to the center and surround speakers so maybe it isn't working. I has been awhile since I tested this.
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The CX EDID doesn't report 5.1 / 7.1 channel PCM so it simply doesn't appear as a selectable speaker configuration in Windows. Are you sure it's sending multi-channel LPCM and not bitstreaming a Dolby format?
Maybe the EDID changes when the TV is connected to an eARC AVR.
I tried eARC again with my x4700h....still garbage. lol
It's possible to make it kinda work sometimes but just now I played an Atmos movie through Kodi for a few minutes(it was fine) then played a couple games for about an hour(still fine) but then sitting here on the desktop with no sound playing it started bugging out with the tv flipping between TV Speaker and ARC. If I remember correctly from when I first bought this, I can probably shut things down and restart and be ok again for some period of time.....sometimes a couple hours and sometimes 5 minutes.
I bought a displayport to hdmi adapter a long time ago and never looked back. eARC just doesn't work with the CX. That said, I think I had regular ARC working just fine in the past but I paid too much money for all this stuff to have lesser audio.
I certainly WISH I could try all this with a 3090...maybe next year when I finally find one in stock I'll try eARC again.
It's possible to make it kinda work sometimes but just now I played an Atmos movie through Kodi for a few minutes(it was fine) then played a couple games for about an hour(still fine) but then sitting here on the desktop with no sound playing it started bugging out with the tv flipping between TV Speaker and ARC. If I remember correctly from when I first bought this, I can probably shut things down and restart and be ok again for some period of time.....sometimes a couple hours and sometimes 5 minutes.
I bought a displayport to hdmi adapter a long time ago and never looked back. eARC just doesn't work with the CX. That said, I think I had regular ARC working just fine in the past but I paid too much money for all this stuff to have lesser audio.
I certainly WISH I could try all this with a 3090...maybe next year when I finally find one in stock I'll try eARC again.
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It would really suck if they can't this working properly on the LG CX TVs. Theoretically eARC tech should work as I outlined below so I hope they get it fixed eventually.
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I agree that passing video through a receiver is a bad idea. It will always add input lag. Receivers even have lipsync delay timing settings as an option for worst case scenarios which should tell you something. I can't imagine a 4k hdmi 2.1 receiver handling video signals without input lag and handling 120hz VRR and all of the other features seamlessly.
You should theoretically be able to pass a digital audio signal via HDMI 2.1 through an eARC capable TV and out of the TV's eARC hdmi port to an eARC capable receiver... as if the receiver was just a DAC and amp receiving an audio line out that processes and amplifies it to your speakers.
Where DTS isn't supported, you should be able transcode DTS video on the fly in plex to uncompressed PCM before you send it to the TV. You can probably also convert DTS videos to PCM on the fly using mpc-hc in windows if not using plex. You could probably transcode those movies or streaming services from other hardware sources too, for example using a nvidia shield set to transcode to PCM on a home theater tv in scenarios such as where you have a CX in your living room with a surround system and no PC connected to it.
For PC gaming, most games are probably PCM in the end after their audio API.
PC Gaming Surround Sound Roundup (updated October 2020)
Anything in a modern surround format it would probably be dolby formats up to dolby atmos~TrueHD rather than DTS. The only problem with converting to PCM is that it probably strips the atmos ceiling speaker data from Atmos data that was added to TrueHD. If you had a legit atmos ceiling speaker setup you could just turn off the transcoding for that movie though anyway since it would only be needed to pass audio from "legacy" dts sound only titles. (I doubt most people using these TVs as a pc gaming monitor would have or pay extra for ceiling speakers and an atmos surround receiver over a 5.1 or 7.1 non-atmos setup anyway).
Those uncompressed hdmi audio tracks are mostly for movies with dolby TrueHD tracks or Atmos (which is TrueHD + extra ceiling speaker data added) though there are some games listed below (and perhaps others) that have atmos~TrueHD support now.
https://www.pocket-lint.com/games/n...r-gaming-what-is-it-and-what-games-support-it
Beyond that, using your TV as your input switching allows you to keep OSD settings per input which is cleaner and more handy in my opinion. That is, providing you have enough inputs on your TV. Another big factor is that you can get a ~ $400 + tax eARC capable audio capable receiver that doesn't do all of the 4k hdmi 2.1 video processing stuff found in receivers that cost $1200 - $1500.
As far as I know the only input lag free and receiver processing avoiding ways to get full uncompressed audio formats are
...using eARC OUT to a capable receiver's eARC IN
...using a SHARC off of the TV's eARC OUT to a non-arc receiver's HDMI IN
or
... using the "fake" monitor trick off of another hdmi output (or displayport to hdmi adapter) on your pc. This method drops the "fake" monitor out of the array every time you turn the receiver off so it will screw up window positions and window position management software every time you turn the receiver on or off. To me that is a very clunky work-around and not valid for my purposes. Nvidia could probably fix this by allowing for a screenless/pixel free audio device off of one of the video outputs but they have never bothered to.
...EDIT: Perhaps in the long run I can swap out one of my 43" side monitors to a hdmi 2.1 eARC capable one if such gets released someday.. (one that actually has working eARC passthrough and perhaps even including dts passthrough) - using that display as the audio device essentially. that way I wouldn't have to make an "invisible" monitor that disappears every time I turn off my reciever.
Overall the pass through method of eARC out from the TV is theoretically the cleanest way to do audio out that is not incapable of doing uncompressed HDMI audio formats like spdif/optical is. It is the cleanest from the processing standpoint and also regarding managing sources and inputs, for storing or "loading" the optimal OSD settings relevant to each source. Once you set up your source input's settings on the tv the first time, you'd usually just switch inputs on the tv any time after that where the source would have the settings stored - rather than having to swap OSD settings on the TV after every time you swap the receiver to a different source (e.g. PC and a console). eARC can also control the receiver's volume if set up properly so it eliminates having to use the receiver remote for the most part.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that passing video through a receiver is a bad idea. It will always add input lag. Receivers even have lipsync delay timing settings as an option for worst case scenarios which should tell you something. I can't imagine a 4k hdmi 2.1 receiver handling video signals without input lag and handling 120hz VRR and all of the other features seamlessly.
You should theoretically be able to pass a digital audio signal via HDMI 2.1 through an eARC capable TV and out of the TV's eARC hdmi port to an eARC capable receiver... as if the receiver was just a DAC and amp receiving an audio line out that processes and amplifies it to your speakers.
Where DTS isn't supported, you should be able transcode DTS video on the fly in plex to uncompressed PCM before you send it to the TV. You can probably also convert DTS videos to PCM on the fly using mpc-hc in windows if not using plex. You could probably transcode those movies or streaming services from other hardware sources too, for example using a nvidia shield set to transcode to PCM on a home theater tv in scenarios such as where you have a CX in your living room with a surround system and no PC connected to it.
For PC gaming, most games are probably PCM in the end after their audio API.
PC Gaming Surround Sound Roundup (updated October 2020)
Anything in a modern surround format it would probably be dolby formats up to dolby atmos~TrueHD rather than DTS. The only problem with converting to PCM is that it probably strips the atmos ceiling speaker data from Atmos data that was added to TrueHD. If you had a legit atmos ceiling speaker setup you could just turn off the transcoding for that movie though anyway since it would only be needed to pass audio from "legacy" dts sound only titles. (I doubt most people using these TVs as a pc gaming monitor would have or pay extra for ceiling speakers and an atmos surround receiver over a 5.1 or 7.1 non-atmos setup anyway).
Those uncompressed hdmi audio tracks are mostly for movies with dolby TrueHD tracks or Atmos (which is TrueHD + extra ceiling speaker data added) though there are some games listed below (and perhaps others) that have atmos~TrueHD support now.
https://www.pocket-lint.com/games/n...r-gaming-what-is-it-and-what-games-support-it
Beyond that, using your TV as your input switching allows you to keep OSD settings per input which is cleaner and more handy in my opinion. That is, providing you have enough inputs on your TV. Another big factor is that you can get a ~ $400 + tax eARC capable audio capable receiver that doesn't do all of the 4k hdmi 2.1 video processing stuff found in receivers that cost $1200 - $1500.
As far as I know the only input lag free and receiver processing avoiding ways to get full uncompressed audio formats are
...using eARC OUT to a capable receiver's eARC IN
...using a SHARC off of the TV's eARC OUT to a non-arc receiver's HDMI IN
or
... using the "fake" monitor trick off of another hdmi output (or displayport to hdmi adapter) on your pc. This method drops the "fake" monitor out of the array every time you turn the receiver off so it will screw up window positions and window position management software every time you turn the receiver on or off. To me that is a very clunky work-around and not valid for my purposes. Nvidia could probably fix this by allowing for a screenless/pixel free audio device off of one of the video outputs but they have never bothered to.
...EDIT: Perhaps in the long run I can swap out one of my 43" side monitors to a hdmi 2.1 eARC capable one if such gets released someday.. (one that actually has working eARC passthrough and perhaps even including dts passthrough) - using that display as the audio device essentially. that way I wouldn't have to make an "invisible" monitor that disappears every time I turn off my reciever.
Overall the pass through method of eARC out from the TV is theoretically the cleanest way to do audio out that is not incapable of doing uncompressed HDMI audio formats like spdif/optical is. It is the cleanest from the processing standpoint and also regarding managing sources and inputs, for storing or "loading" the optimal OSD settings relevant to each source. Once you set up your source input's settings on the tv the first time, you'd usually just switch inputs on the tv any time after that where the source would have the settings stored - rather than having to swap OSD settings on the TV after every time you swap the receiver to a different source (e.g. PC and a console). eARC can also control the receiver's volume if set up properly so it eliminates having to use the receiver remote for the most part.
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It's more like you thought you were getting 24 carat gold plating but only got 20 carat while Monster advertised neither.
Not having full HDMI 2.1 bandwidth has so far caused no issues. There has been all kinds of speculation that has turned out to be simply bugs with CX series firmware. With more devices coming to market that only support 40 Gbps there is unlikely to be anything on the market that makes good use of it. By the time there is a need for the full 48 Gbps there better be native 12-bit panels, content that uses it (Dolby Vision can but will actual content be made with that support?) etc. I fully expect that nobody but the most anal users will notice a difference vs 10-bit either.
By the time there is a need for the full bandwidth we are talking about 4K 240 Hz displays and probably Nvidia 50 series GPUs to be able to make any use of that refresh rate.
It's just not plain worth worrying about with what we have now.
I also expect that MS and Sony are testing the HDMI 2.1 capabilities and that they will work just fine. It might take time for games to catch up and make any good use of them though as most console games are still using things like fixed framerates.
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- 5,781
Hoping it is all just firmware issues and not hardware limitations. If the C9 had the same issues that would seem to indicate that is not related to a difference in cutting corners along with the hdmi bandwidth hardware.
As it stands now the remaining issues seem to be (unless I am forgetting something):
... 120hz 4k 444 10bit's VRR range has stuttering
....eARC 5.1/7.1 performance: reliability/stability are not solid at all (dropping to or only capable of stereo, connection not remaining solid requiring reconnects or restarts).
....slight raising of black depth in areas with near-blacks or some near-black flashing with VRR active.
....slight raising of blacks with Dolby Vision hdr
As it stands now the remaining issues seem to be (unless I am forgetting something):
... 120hz 4k 444 10bit's VRR range has stuttering
....eARC 5.1/7.1 performance: reliability/stability are not solid at all (dropping to or only capable of stereo, connection not remaining solid requiring reconnects or restarts).
....slight raising of black depth in areas with near-blacks or some near-black flashing with VRR active.
....slight raising of blacks with Dolby Vision hdr
These are my selectable speaker configurations:
I changed it to Stereo and then back to 5.1 but now the AVR won't allow Dolby to be selected as a sound mode. ugh
Do you know if the raised blacks appear in Dolby Vision HDR or any HDR mode?
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- 5,781
From what I've heard from hdtvtest and avsforum raised blacks happen in dolby vision hdr and there was mention of raised near black in hdr-10.
Here are a few examples from the video below showing the raised blacks in dolby vision vs non-dolby vision:
There are also reports that slight (1 notch on a "can you see this" contrast setting adjustment in games) raised blacks happen in/adjacent to near black areas when VRR is active. Since the latest firmware update a few people have reported that near blacks have been flashing or flickering on their CX too. I think the flashing was from a 3000 series gpu if I'm not mistaken.
Apparently some time ago when the C9 was the latest, there was a firmware fix applied to address near blacks flashing by dithering the near blacks (even if the rest of the screen was not dithered I think). However this was what must have been an aggressive dithering because it was resulting in a loss of detail - so LG changed this in a later firmware to a flattening of blacks as a work-around. According to what I've read and listened to online, when VRR is active (on both the C9 and the CX) that black-flattening "near black fix" workaround is being bypassed. This reportedly results in slightly raised blacks where near black areas are. Since it sounds like it is not the whole screen but rather just the near-black areas of the screen throughout scenes, changing the overall gamma or other settings would alter the rest of the image too so just making the whole screen darker isn't a perfect fix either. However the difference is not overtly noticeable by everyone, especially those not viewing in dark rooms so it doesn't seem to be getting a lot of attention so far and probably isn't a huge deal to everyone. Still it would be nice if it were fixed.
The Dolby vision raised (or "elevated") blacks apparently affect the whole of the screen/scenes. Vincent reported on this again and also made mention of raised near blacks in HDR10
at this timestamp back on firmware 03.10.20 in august 2020:
Here are a few examples from the video below showing the raised blacks in dolby vision vs non-dolby vision:
There are also reports that slight (1 notch on a "can you see this" contrast setting adjustment in games) raised blacks happen in/adjacent to near black areas when VRR is active. Since the latest firmware update a few people have reported that near blacks have been flashing or flickering on their CX too. I think the flashing was from a 3000 series gpu if I'm not mistaken.
Apparently some time ago when the C9 was the latest, there was a firmware fix applied to address near blacks flashing by dithering the near blacks (even if the rest of the screen was not dithered I think). However this was what must have been an aggressive dithering because it was resulting in a loss of detail - so LG changed this in a later firmware to a flattening of blacks as a work-around. According to what I've read and listened to online, when VRR is active (on both the C9 and the CX) that black-flattening "near black fix" workaround is being bypassed. This reportedly results in slightly raised blacks where near black areas are. Since it sounds like it is not the whole screen but rather just the near-black areas of the screen throughout scenes, changing the overall gamma or other settings would alter the rest of the image too so just making the whole screen darker isn't a perfect fix either. However the difference is not overtly noticeable by everyone, especially those not viewing in dark rooms so it doesn't seem to be getting a lot of attention so far and probably isn't a huge deal to everyone. Still it would be nice if it were fixed.
The Dolby vision raised (or "elevated") blacks apparently affect the whole of the screen/scenes. Vincent reported on this again and also made mention of raised near blacks in HDR10
at this timestamp back on firmware 03.10.20 in august 2020:
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I think this is a glitch with the "instant game response" mode not triggering properly sometimes, turning it off/on again fixes these issues for me, i need to do it sometimes when turning the tv on, but not always.
Definitely perfectly smooth in the 100-120 fps range.
Turning off instant game response also glitches, as it says it has been launched..
(cx 55)
Edit: in hdr g-sync seems to not work at all? only tried in destiny2. In destiny2 it doesn't work in sdr either. In wow and wow beta it works fine once enabled/stable.
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In my opinion, you can not say that it "has so far caused no issues" until you can actually test it.
I have already resigned myself to HTPC dual 2.1 out to CX and ghost screen AVR, ps5/X series 2.1 to TV then eARC to AVR. Unfortunately still cant buy anything.
l88bastard
2[H]4U
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- Oct 25, 2009
- Messages
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What was the remote code we enter over picture mode settings to get into that mini service menu?
EDIT: Oh snap found it 1113111
https://itigic.com/access-hidden-menu-on-lg-tv-advanced-image-settings/
EDIT: Oh snap found it 1113111
https://itigic.com/access-hidden-menu-on-lg-tv-advanced-image-settings/