CoD: MW2 Lets Player Kill Civilians

I don't get it. You can kill innocent people in most games nowandays. What makes MW2 so special?

Also, where's my new Hitman or Hitman-like game? I wanna strangle a guy for his disguise instead of sedating him for the lulz.
 
Bohica69 said:
For those of you who don't think this is a big deal - you need to step back and look at the bigger picture. The problem is that Joe and Jane Public see this, and freak out, and then you get a huge backlash against ALL FPS games in general. Right or Wrong, that's what's going to happen.
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I think this needed to happen. So a year from now when we have statistically no more random killings from crazy people in public settings than the year prior a lesson can be learned here...
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I murder cities full of innocent civilians all the time in Oblivion.
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They're medieval based and there's no guns involved they don't count.

And before anyone brings up Fallout 3:

They're Post-Apocalyptic based and totally had it coming so they don't count. Also some of them refuse to die and get back up.
 
RumpleForeSkin said:
as a veteran myself i take some issues with you taking issue.
American's have killed civilians. plain and simple.
The bombing campaign in Europe at the end of the second world war killed more civilians than could ever be accounted for. Was it intentional? probably not but it was the only way to ensure victory for our country and our allies.
My Lai Massacre? wiki it (interesting fact on that is that a young Major that was charged with investigating that was a certain Joint Chief named Colin Powell )

I know from speaking to returning veterans of these wars that civilians are being killed by American servicemen. Do they feel good about it? absolutely not but the mission was the mission and that is just how it is in the military.
to take offense to something that is a cold hard fact is just silly. Don't wave your flag in the man's face and use your family's service ( not yours) as an excuse to deny the facts.
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Right, don't forget about Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing too.
 
RumpleForeSkin said:
as a veteran myself i take some issues with you taking issue.
American's have killed civilians. plain and simple.
The bombing campaign in Europe at the end of the second world war killed more civilians than could ever be accounted for. Was it intentional? probably not but it was the only way to ensure victory for our country and our allies.
My Lai Massacre? wiki it (interesting fact on that is that a young Major that was charged with investigating that was a certain Joint Chief named Colin Powell )

I know from speaking to returning veterans of these wars that civilians are being killed by American servicemen. Do they feel good about it? absolutely not but the mission was the mission and that is just how it is in the military.
to take offense to something that is a cold hard fact is just silly. Don't wave your flag in the man's face and use your family's service ( not yours) as an excuse to deny the facts.
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The argument isn't about whether or not civilians are killed in war, it's that some people think that our military just goes in to a country and massacres anyone they see. And I don't need to use my family's service, I'm an Air Force ROTC student at the University of Akron, Ohio. Even though I haven't served yet doesn't mean I can't take offense to people who don't give a damn about our soldiers.
 
panhead said:
The same could be said about multiplayer in MW2.
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SO If I play a 1st person shooter and only run around using my fists and not actually engaging anyone, can I be a conciensous objector or whatever they call it? Don't kill me I'm not a warrior, I'm a civilian trapped in this digital world.

Does anyone make a stink that in all the WW2 games with medics with clearly marked red crosses, that people targeted them? Fuck no.
 
Also, I apologize for opening up the can of worms here. I don't want to get into any political arguments, as these forums really aren't the place for it. My fault.
 
So you expect to play at War and then you get shocked when the game resembles the reality. Some people these days are so alienated and so stupid then don't even realize they're hypocrites.
 
Cschill1290 said:
The argument isn't about whether or not civilians are killed in war, it's that some people think that our military just goes in to a country and massacres anyone they see. And I don't need to use my family's service, I'm an Air Force ROTC student at the University of Akron, Ohio. Even though I haven't served yet doesn't mean I can't take offense to people who don't give a damn about our soldiers.
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The US doesn't intentionally target civilians, with the odd exception. If we did, we wouldn't be having to much trouble in Iraq. It is our unwillingness to target civilians that allows the conflict to continue. I'm not saying we should target Iraqi civilians, just that it would be effective; remember the old Europeans conquered almost the entire globe without any of the technology we have today. If the Britts could keep India or whoever at bay through the selective application of overwhelming violence against civilians, surely we could too. Thank God we don't.
 
People also forget that War is about destruction and breaking your enemy morelae. WTF did you expect ? Roses and pinpoint accuracy everytime? That's the reason why this Country is so screwed up in the first place So much fucking hypocrisy is disgusting..
 
I'm surprised this is even an issue. If I remember, in COD:World at War you gun down unarmed German soldiers in one mission. But I guess that part was optional.

Anyway, this brought back memories of a Syndicate and Syndicate Wars. Not that I'd purposely mow em down or anything.. but there would many times be... "excess collateral damage".
 
Yeah, we''' do precision daylight CARPET bombing! :p

The soviets had something nice, like the Katyusha (iirc) for this, too.

The chinese, during the Korean war, used human shields.

The Nazis, brutally killed anyone in their way, even while being pounded by the soviets in the later years of the war.


While it was poor taste to leave this in there, it's IW's decision, not ours.

If we wanted to vent, it should of been done in GenMay, not here.
 
RumpleForeSkin said:
there was a great skit on the simpsons or family guy (can't remember which) that joked about a girl dying in a bus crash.. once it was determined it wasn't a white girl the reporters lost interest.

Terrorists are people too, yeah crazy notion huh? living breathing human beings that have a different opinion as to how to live their life than you do. So it's fine and dandy to smoke them in a videogame but when the smoking comes the other way? HOLY SHIT BREAK OUT THE BIBLES IT's TIME FOR A LYNCHING!

A terrorist by nature is a civilian. They are not representing another nation as a uniformed soldier. nobody will bitch about killing them but when the shoe is on the other foot it's a freakin outrage.

this is my message to America:
YOU ARE NOT A PRECIOUS LITTLE SNOWFLAKE, NEITHER IS YOUR KID. you really need to stop with this nanny-state bullshit and deal with REAL problems, not whether an imaginary terrorist killed an imaginary civilian in an imaginary world.

I've been playing violent video games for 30 years now. I haven't assaulted anyone. murdered anyone or shut the power off to a hospital. I served my country, raised a son on my own and have been a reasonably productive member of society, the issues isn't the games, it is YOU.


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There's one simple detail with that: TERRORISTS DO NOT THINK LIKE YOU. Actually they absolutely think the opposite and YOU my dear friend along with all of us must be GONE/DEAD according to them.
And how you plan to cope with that? By throwing roses at them?
It's just a matter of switching to MTV/VH1 and the terrorists will think this Country is the Devil. Like in every single person in this country is the same and thinks the same as any example they put in there.

In everything else I agree with you. Reacting to something like that game just displays something: lack of character.
 
Two things - I find it good that Infinity Ward chose to continue stick to their guns when it comes to the artistic nature of what they put out (freedom of speech). I highly doubt this went unnoticed among the pencil-pushers.

Unfortunately, this will most likely be "patched out" once the heat gets put on. The next kid to shoot up a school who just happened to have played MW2 at his brothers cousins house will create a media and political lynch mob.
 
Lebowski said:
SO If I play a 1st person shooter and only run around using my fists and not actually engaging anyone, can I be a conciensous objector or whatever they call it? Don't kill me I'm not a warrior, I'm a civilian trapped in this digital world.
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My multiplayer comment was refering to Steve's comment "Why even include it in the game." since multiplayer has been castrated on the PC.
 
I've seen a video of this level being played-it's actually pretty disturbing. Basically you roll through an airport terminal just mowing people down. In some instances there are people crawling, injured, and you shoot them as well. It's not the somewhat lighthearted GTA type of killing, it's much more realistic and a bit scary.

That said, it is just a game. However, I really don't think IW needed to include it. Most likely going for the shock factor.
 
ClariorHincHonos said:
I've seen a video of this level being played-it's actually pretty disturbing. Basically you roll through an airport terminal just mowing people down. In some instances there are people crawling, injured, and you shoot them as well. It's not the somewhat lighthearted GTA type of killing, it's much more realistic and a bit scary.

That said, it is just a game. However, I really don't think IW needed to include it. Most likely going for the shock factor.
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At least people will know the reality of a war.
 
How is this any worse than a violent movie? As long as its rated properly who cares.
 
Poor in taste, indeed. But its not surprising that this is happening, given the demand for more realism in games over the years. We've had our sex scenes, and now we have innocent civilians becoming targets. In my eyes it was only a matter of time before game developers finally went outside the generally accepted comfort zone of realism, due to the demand. And in all honesty, I don't see the pace of that stopping. I mean, look at the track record:

Remember Golgo 13 for the NES? Implied sex scene when you met up with the chick in the subway.
Counter-Strike had terrorists you could play that could actually win.
GTA San Andreas with the Hot Coffee ordeal.
GTA series as whole, the whole hookers ordeal, plus killing people on the street. And in GTA4, you could go at it with whatever steady girlfriend you picked up.
God of War had brief nudity.
Mass Effect had a sex scene (ZOMG BLUE HAND!) and honestly, some of the dialogue/character choices you could make in the game, I'm not surprised there wasn't news blasting all over THOSE.

I'm not saying that I'm in favor of this or that this should be the way things go from now on. I'm just saying, in my eyes, it was only a matter of time before something like this would happen and it wouldn't be well received, and I don't see it getting any better.
 
Enduring_Warrior said:
There's one simple detail with that: TERRORISTS DO NOT THINK LIKE YOU. Actually they absolutely think the opposite and YOU my dear friend along with all of us must be GONE/DEAD according to them.
And how you plan to cope with that? By throwing roses at them?
It's just a matter of switching to MTV/VH1 and the terrorists will think this Country is the Devil. Like in every single person in this country is the same and thinks the same as any example they put in there.

In everything else I agree with you. Reacting to something like that game just displays something: lack of character.
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understanding them does not make me agree with them
You say lack of character? i'm pretty sure if you read my earlier posts you will see that character is not something i lack.
The difference between a patriot and a terrorist is what side of the fence you stand on. I'm pretty sure if the American revolution was happening today the Brits would have labeled us as terrorists.
you are looking at this with fox-news blinders. open your eyes, there is more than one way to look at a situation. what we call a terrorist they call a freedom-fighter. what we call an insurgency they call a movement.

KNOW THINE ENEMY. if you pulled the flag from your eyes you might actually get somewhere and make some sense.
 
RumpleForeSkin said:
understanding them does not make me agree with them
You say lack of character? i'm pretty sure if you read my earlier posts you will see that character is not something i lack.
The difference between a patriot and a terrorist is what side of the fence you stand on. I'm pretty sure if the American revolution was happening today the Brits would have labeled us as terrorists.
you are looking at this with fox-news blinders. open your eyes, there is more than one way to look at a situation. what we call a terrorist they call a freedom-fighter. what we call an insurgency they call a movement.

KNOW THINE ENEMY. if you pulled the flag from your eyes you might actually get somewhere and make some sense.
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hehe..."fox-news blinders".... Cause that is the only biased media outlet...
 
it don't bother me, wow innocents killed, that happens every day around the world and the news has no trouble profiting on ratings showing that, people die in thousands in some countries due to massive violence and the world lets it happen, but woe is me let it happen in a video game? hell no, digital boobies and sex thats bad to, but watch all the prons u want. so why is this any different. Maybe people want to play the bad guy, villains sometimes are more popular than the good guys. Could it perhaps be in bad taste, sure, but i am not a fan of censorship, if something is offensive don't buy it or watch it, play it etc. Let others make that choice for themselves.
 
ClariorHincHonos said:
I've seen a video of this level being played-it's actually pretty disturbing. Basically you roll through an airport terminal just mowing people down. In some instances there are people crawling, injured, and you shoot them as well. It's not the somewhat lighthearted GTA type of killing, it's much more realistic and a bit scary.

That said, it is just a game. However, I really don't think IW needed to include it. Most likely going for the shock factor.
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So kind of like the opening of "The Kingdom" but in an airport?
 
how can people not have a problem with this
this is like making a game where you can be a nazi prison camp and get to exterminate jews, just completely uncalled for
 
They let you kill civilians yet don't include dedicated servers? I'm dumbfounded. :D
 
Ravenous said:
More people should try that, imagine how much better our country would be without the "blinders".
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the thing is that we've been raising kids for the past couple of generation that it's cool to be dumb. Lord knows that it was the king dumbasses in the 80's that reigned supreme. The idea of thinking for yourself was basically eliminated in the last administration where to question what was going on was considered unpatriotic.
I am generally dismissed as a "liberal" somehow that is considered an insult these days, apparently considering the human cost of things in just not in synch with the great drive for capitalism so since i'm not with them i must be against them. heh if only our founding fathers could see us now.. if only...


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. :D

back to the topic though i don't see the issue with this scene. War games have always been biased. If i remember correctly there was a game by an Egyptian developer that basically played out like any of our western shooters but took the side of a Jihadist, of course it was tore up in our media as being an abomination unto the eyes of the lord or some bs like that.

We Americans have no problem insulting the rest of the world but if it's turned back in our direction it turns into a shit-storm.

it's just sickening to think of the world's opinion of this country now. We were the envy of the planet and something all free societies were desperately trying to emulate. Now we are the but of the joke.. sad really sad
 
wtf? Who cares? It's just a freaking game. I mean, unless they are personally identifiable as real living people that the developers don't like or something, how's that an issue?

I hate not being able to blow away some of those really annoying kids in Little Lamplight in Fallout 3 as it is.. Let me at least kill civilians in games, dammit! :D
 
Chombo said:
This isn't art. Infinity Ward isn't creating this game out of some need to share a story with us. Its being created to make money, hand over fist. This is just for publicity and shock value.
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Spot on... they gimp the PC version back to the early '90s, overprice it by 20%, and act oblivious to everyone's concerns regarding a product they were planning on purchasing (or had already pre-ordered and now must cancel due to a drastic feature omission). Sure, the goal of a business is to make money, but this isn't art, let's be clear on that: it's a cash grab.
 
[H]Robertsonian;1034833121 said:
The ultimate troll bait:

Originally Posted by jroe52
Our government kills innocent civilians weekly in Afghanistan and we are ok with that. Heaven forbid we kill fake white people in a videogame.

You bring up war, terrorism, killing civilians, killing white people, racism, videogames, and indirectly, God, all in two sentences.

Woah.
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Amazing trollbait... I'm amazed.
 
RumpleForeSkin said:
there was a great skit on the simpsons or family guy (can't remember which) that joked about a girl dying in a bus crash.. once it was determined it wasn't a white girl the reporters lost interest.

Terrorists are people too, yeah crazy notion huh? living breathing human beings that have a different opinion as to how to live their life than you do. So it's fine and dandy to smoke them in a videogame but when the smoking comes the other way? HOLY SHIT BREAK OUT THE BIBLES IT's TIME FOR A LYNCHING!

A terrorist by nature is a civilian. They are not representing another nation as a uniformed soldier. nobody will bitch about killing them but when the shoe is on the other foot it's a freakin outrage.

this is my message to America:
YOU ARE NOT A PRECIOUS LITTLE SNOWFLAKE, NEITHER IS YOUR KID. you really need to stop with this nanny-state bullshit and deal with REAL problems, not whether an imaginary terrorist killed an imaginary civilian in an imaginary world.

I've been playing violent video games for 30 years now. I haven't assaulted anyone. murdered anyone or shut the power off to a hospital. I served my country, raised a son on my own and have been a reasonably productive member of society, the issues isn't the games, it is YOU.


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ExperTroll Rating: 3/10, spelling is decent and grammatical structure is intuitive with an eye for stringing the reader along.

Just one thing to respond with even though I know this is simply troll-bait: America *IS* a "precious little snowflake"... name one other nation that's accomplished what we have in known history. Wait, you can't... :p .
 
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