Year of the Desktop VR? How many more iterations will it take before VR is flawless?

Aegir

Limp Gawd
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And what defines a "flawless" experience?
Visuals? Hand controls? Foot controls? Tactile force-feedback?

What will be the breaking point of when VR becomes better than reality?

What features would you like to see improved, besides visual clarity?
And what features don't exist yet that should be introduced?
 

MaZa

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When it gets into the level of Ready Player One.

Ok, maybe we will never get there but we can get damn close. Visuals are obviously important but what will really seal the deal are the haptics. Not just gloves but whole gear preferably. The ability to touch and feel your surroundings, wether you touch them yourself or something in the VR world touches you (get your mind out of the gutter, I'm not talking about VR porn... 😅) are just as important to the immersion as the visuals.

Treadmills are nice in theory but from what people have tested them so far they can be a bit awkward. And this is not even nearly as important as you might think as far as immersion goes. You do not need waggle your legs to feel like you are moving. But for touching things alternatives are quite few, simple rumble can only take you so far.

However VR will always be virtual. To quote Ready Player One novel "Reality is the only place where you can find a decent meal". VR cannot be a substitute for reality, it can only complement it.
 

Cerulean

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I would like to have productive VR-AR hybrid. I have come to find that a 43" 4K monitor has the sweet spot, but the next step is VR-AR hybrid, but it has to be able to exceed the value of a 43" 4K monitor for productivity in usability, resolution, and sense.
 

gsilver

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It became good enough to use with the Vive, and since then, they've made significant improvements in the controllers (specifically the Valve Index ones, though Oculus's Touch controllers aren't bad) wireless (via the Quest and the Vive wireless adapter) and increased FOV and resolution.

Though "flawless" is a kind of pointness and impossible benchmark. It can always get "better"
The biggest thing right now, IMO, is the form factor of the headset. They're still bulky and heavy, and the experience of wearing one can still be cumbersome. But, they're working on it:

https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-folded-holographic-optics-thinnest-vr-display-glasses/

The article states that it's probably 10 years away, but it could be really cool if/when it comes to the consumer market.

Haptics may be even further away, and we'll need something better than just throwing more free space at it for locomotion.

//Though I totally want to bring my Quest to the running track in town some evening, turn the Guardian grid off, and run through a few teleportation-free levels. And that's something you can do right now.
Dunno how far it'll let me go, though. The Guardian barrier only supports 25' x 25' even if you have more space.
 

Hagrid

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I do not think VR/AR is the problem, but being able to run the HMD's with a powerful enough GPU is the problem.
The technology exists for 4K+ lenses and 120hz+, but no power to run them.
 

Ready4Dis

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I do not think VR/AR is the problem, but being able to run the HMD's with a powerful enough GPU is the problem.
The technology exists for 4K+ lenses and 120hz+, but no power to run them.
I disagree, maybe it's personal preference or w/e. I don't have any issues with lower resolution HMD's. 1080p + freesync between 60-90hz is fine by me. My issues is it's just not realistic. The hand grips are odd, most games you have no body, there is no leg tracking, movement is completely unnatural, the headset is still heavy and awkward with cables (most headsets use cables, there are a few wireless options finally). You are still very much limited even at "room scale". I have a 10x15 area I use, but it still feels very small. Lots of inconsistencies in games and the way things are handled. Switching back and forth between uses of varying height can confuse some games or even worse be difficult to play due to your physical height and chosen height of object in game (especially noticeable when my 6 y/o daughter wants to try/play). So to me, it's VR/AR that is the problem (well, at least with the current limitations), not the HMD's.

ps. Even with all these complaints, it's still pretty fun and can be decent. Unfortunately, good games are still difficult to come by with the market saturated by crappy stuff.
 

Hagrid

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I disagree, maybe it's personal preference or w/e. I don't have any issues with lower resolution HMD's. 1080p + freesync between 60-90hz is fine by me. My issues is it's just not realistic. The hand grips are odd, most games you have no body, there is no leg tracking, movement is completely unnatural, the headset is still heavy and awkward with cables (most headsets use cables, there are a few wireless options finally). You are still very much limited even at "room scale". I have a 10x15 area I use, but it still feels very small. Lots of inconsistencies in games and the way things are handled. Switching back and forth between uses of varying height can confuse some games or even worse be difficult to play due to your physical height and chosen height of object in game (especially noticeable when my 6 y/o daughter wants to try/play). So to me, it's VR/AR that is the problem (well, at least with the current limitations), not the HMD's.

ps. Even with all these complaints, it's still pretty fun and can be decent. Unfortunately, good games are still difficult to come by with the market saturated by crappy stuff.
I took the thread to mean where do you see it being super not it just works. Do you still use 640k of ram? Green monitor?

VR is still very new so it will need time to mature.

Realistic? Compared to a 2D flat screen? That is crazy, but your opinion.

I want VR to keep getting better not stuck at low res and refresh.
 

Ready4Dis

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I took the thread to mean where do you see it being super not it just works. Do you still use 640k of ram? Green monitor?

VR is still very new so it will need time to mature.

Realistic? Compared to a 2D flat screen? That is crazy, but your opinion.

I want VR to keep getting better not stuck at low res and refresh.
I understand, my point was there are many more hangups keeping it from mainstream besides just 4k 120hz. There are many things that aren't going to be fixed anytime soon. If you give me VR that was real-time raytraced at 4k with crappy controls and even worse gameplay, it's still not going to be mainstream. I'm not saying more graphics power won't help with immersion, but there are many other obstacles that can't be fixed by just throwing faster hardware at it. Haptic touch/feedback gloves, foot tracking, a better method of locomotion (point and click to move isn't exactly immersive in VR, neither is using WASD). As I said, I actually do like VR I was just responding to your assertion that ar/vr isn't the problem it just needed more graphics power. I don't agree, I think ar/vr is at least as much of the problem if not more so than the low res screens. Sure I'd love higher res and faster frame times, but they aren't responsible for the crappy 1/2 a$$ed games and crappy controls we have to work with. It's a double edged sword (catch 22)... there aren't to many great games for people to spend $500 on VR... but there aren't enough VR users to blow a huge budget on making a good VR game. Sure, if you took that I still run on 640k from my statement that VR has issues that aren't related to the GPU, then you completely missed the point.
 

Hagrid

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I understand, my point was there are many more hangups keeping it from mainstream besides just 4k 120hz. There are many things that aren't going to be fixed anytime soon. If you give me VR that was real-time raytraced at 4k with crappy controls and even worse gameplay, it's still not going to be mainstream. I'm not saying more graphics power won't help with immersion, but there are many other obstacles that can't be fixed by just throwing faster hardware at it. Haptic touch/feedback gloves, foot tracking, a better method of locomotion (point and click to move isn't exactly immersive in VR, neither is using WASD). As I said, I actually do like VR I was just responding to your assertion that ar/vr isn't the problem it just needed more graphics power. I don't agree, I think ar/vr is at least as much of the problem if not more so than the low res screens. Sure I'd love higher res and faster frame times, but they aren't responsible for the crappy 1/2 a$$ed games and crappy controls we have to work with. It's a double edged sword (catch 22)... there aren't to many great games for people to spend $500 on VR... but there aren't enough VR users to blow a huge budget on making a good VR game. Sure, if you took that I still run on 640k from my statement that VR has issues that aren't related to the GPU, then you completely missed the point.
One step at a time.
 

Ready4Dis

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Y
One step at a time.
Yeah, I don't feel it's going to be that good until they figure out better controls and bit better quality games/demo's. But, it's still fun to play on my Oculus for now. I'm sure once they can make lighter wireless headsets it'll get a bit more traction. Maybe go to something like Microsoft Kinect for full body tracking would be a step in the right direction, but without.feedback it's be a bit awkward.
 

MavericK

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Wireless headsets that are much smaller/lighter would be a big step.

I'd also like to see some sort of haptic gloves, where you can feel objects in the virtual world and manipulate them 1:1 with your hands versus holding a controller.
 

MaZa

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I'd also like to see some sort of haptic gloves, where you can feel objects in the virtual world and manipulate them 1:1 with your hands versus holding a controller.
The technology is ready. Not for consumer use but it is just a matter of time.

 

CraptacularOne

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Perfect? Better than reality? Well that's all subjective really.

In my ideal world I'd like VR to be as simple as putting on a pair of glasses and be as light and easy. Full body and finger tracking for no real controllers needed and have visual fidelity and audio of a AAA blockbuster comparable to a big box movie theater.
 

Hagrid

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Perfect? Better than reality? Well that's all subjective really.

In my ideal world I'd like VR to be as simple as putting on a pair of glasses and be as light and easy. Full body and finger tracking for no real controllers needed and have visual fidelity and audio of a AAA blockbuster comparable to a big box movie theater.
The tech will continue to grow and get better. It won't happen overnight.
 

zombielando

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Rift/Vive quality just isn't there, and in my honest opinion, we are two full generations away in VR hardware until we get true, acceptable quality. What I mean by that the VR displays will have zero screen door effect, tracking to be fully integrated (so you don't need a room full of trackers and could just have a backpack laptop as your driver and your good to go), and minimum 90fps~ to minimize motion sickness.
 
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odditory

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Rift/Vive quality just isn't there, and in my honest opinion, we are two full generations away in VR hardware until we get true, acceptable quality. What I mean by that the VR displays will have zero screen door effect, tracking to be fully integrated (so you don't need a room full of trackers and could just have a backpack laptop as your driver and your good to go), and minimum 90fps~ to minimize motion sickness.
We're closer to the brink than people realize, it doesn't necessarily need two more generations. Reverb G1 with 2160x2160 per eye is like looking at a 1080p monitor, text is sharp, there's no more blur. Reverb G2 in a couple months will improve it further (bigger sweet spot, better lenses and screen).

I've actually been experimenting with part of my workday in VR looking at virtual screens as a replacement for having 5 desktop monitors, and my G1 is the first HMD that made me not want to exit after 5 min, because the text quality is finally good enough. VR games are cool, but VR based workflow and productivity are even more interesting.
 

zombielando

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We're closer to the brink than people realize, it doesn't necessarily need two more generations. Reverb G1 with 2160x2160 per eye is like looking at a 1080p monitor, text is sharp, there's no more blur. Reverb G2 in a couple months will improve it further (bigger sweet spot, better lenses and screen).

I've actually been experimenting with part of my workday in VR looking at virtual screens as a replacement for having 5 desktop monitors, and my G1 is the first HMD that made me not want to exit after 5 min, because the text quality is finally good enough. VR games are cool, but VR based workflow and productivity are even more interesting.
I have not got to try the G1 yet, the text quality with the Vive and Rift were what was holding back the desktop replacement for me. Text quality was pretty bad. I loved using Virtual Desktop overall though, and it showed me that we are SO close overall to being able to just pop on a VR headset and not have to have 3-5 screens for that same level of productivity.
 

quiktake

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4k 90fps, fully wireless and less than $300. You can get 75inch TVs for the price they are asking for new headsets.

They will also need ways to allow people to see there local environment.
 

Hagrid

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4k 90fps, fully wireless and less than $300. You can get 75inch TVs for the price they are asking for new headsets.

They will also need ways to allow people to see there local environment.
Easy, I just lift my HMD off a bit if i really need to see anything.
 
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