XFX Gets Boot from NVIDIA

[Valset]

I hope XFX doesn't suffer too much from this, I've got 2 cards with their double lifetime warranty. I'd hate to see them go down the same road BFG did.

I doubt they will though, especially with the 6000 series around the corner =)

not likely. in fact I think its more a case of AMD got its first real taste of what a good board partner can do. look at the 5800 launch. how many people were scrambling for a XFX version? how many times is it recommended here? I am sure it hurts them but I doubt they are doing that bad

 

[STR]

Oy, time to sell my nvidia stock this looks bad, real bad. I heard nvidia even gives a whole 3 years compared to the lifetime warranty or double lifetime warranty most cards give... not to mention best buy, yeah this has fail written all over it.

Dude, policy issues aside, you should have sold that stock 18 months ago.

 

[STR]

Dude, policy issues aside, you should have sold that stock 18 months ago.

Just to clarify this comment, I bought and sold NVDA several times in the last few years. I'd buy it at $11-12, ride it up to $20, dump it and rebuy when it dropped back down. They made me a LOT of money, but they stopped rising after the falls. You make no money on a flat-line stock.

 

[jwhited]

Is it safe to assume that Nvidia is butthurt about XFX selling ATI cards?

 

[ShadowStriker]

EVGA tried to get permission to make ATi cards but AMD turn them down.

Link

Addendum 5th August 2008: EVGA has made an official statement about this matter refuting the claim made by AMD that EVGA approached it, instead EVGA claims it to be the other way around:

"AMD Channel Senior Account Manager on West Coast (of USA) had requested me to arrange a meeting with our president and CEO in April 2007, however we declined the request in lieu of our business decision.

We continue to be very satisfied with our business relationship with NVIDIA, and have no plans to build any graphics cards beyond NVIDIA.".

 

[DeathPrincess]

Damnit, does this mean ill have to wait even longer for a new XFX card?

 

[Deleted member 217897]

This is not 3dfx, and those people that think that Nvidia is going the way of 3dfx are complete morons. 3dfx bought STB, which was a company that did all of the Manufacturing of their video cards.

Nvidia in this case has not bought any company. They are getting a 3rd party to make their cards, I believe it was foxconn. Many companies get their cards from companies like foxconn and slap on their tags.

Xfx while I love that company, they made their choice by going to AMD. Nvidia has every right to refuse them. They will make even more profits by selling the cards themselves without a third party. I can't see how this is bad for them. Nvidia has many other AIB partners, nobody is screwing nobody. People keep saying the AIBs are going to be mad as hell, I can't see how that is possible. We've lost BFG and XFX from the Nvidia side and we've gained Nvidia as another seller, for all the AIBs are concerned they are still down 1 seller.

Most of the AIBs don't even sell retail anyway, so what's the big problem.

As for lifetime warranty, it's probably going to go away in the future as many people believe. But people still have options, EVGA, Sparkly and Zotac.

 

[rUmX]

You're looking at old cards, no one cares about those, they are irrelevant. When you look at what is *currently* going on, it is an extremely different story.

I agree. DX11 is where it's at now. As time passes by, having more marketshare of old cards doesn't amount to anything.

If AMD keeps on schedule and Nvidia keeps flip-flopping, I wouldn't be surprised even if 2 years from now maybe AMD will continue to own 80%+ marketshare of DX11 cards. If that happens, NV will be in big trouble. PhysX will become irrelevant because no developer will create new features and effects for 20% of the market. CUDA will also probably die out, or be relegated to the professional sector with Quadro.

The future does not look bright for Nvidia.

 

[demingo]

Might want to double check those numbers. AMD has over 80% of the DX11 market. AMD had the $200 and under range completely owned until just a couple of months ago when the GTX 460 came out, and was unchallenged in the $150 market and under until the fairly recent GTS 450 came out. It's also odd that you talk about the $100 price point, since Nvidia doesn't have a part to compete in that segment at all. And they still don't have anything less than $100 whereas AMD does. AMD has a $40 card ($30 AR), and has for quite a while now.

You're looking at old cards, no one cares about those, they are irrelevant. When you look at what is *currently* going on, it is an extremely different story.

Likewise, *WHAT* onboard video? Nvidia's chipset business went down the toilet, they don't have an onboard presence anymore. That is divided between Intel and AMD (not evenly, of course, Intel owns that )

I never suggested Nvidia is in any danger of going under, but it isn't exactly all roses and sunshine for their AIBs (granted most have other products that aren't video cards to still bring in the money even if the video card division isn't doing well)

DX11 is a drop in the bucket compared to the whole market. Remember, we on this forum make up a tiny portion. Those "old" video cards still sell a ton. A simple search on Bestbuy.com came up with 23 different cards from Nvidia priced at $100 or less. 8400s, 240s, 210s. While these may not be what we consider top end cards, they carry plenty of margin for the company and still sell incredibly well. In addition these types of cards are extremely popular with OEMS as they can say they have a dedicated video card with 512mb ram for little extra cost.

On board, I was mainly referring to laptops. Nvidia has a huge presence in that market and simply looking at Dell's or Gateway's website shows a large amount of models with an Nvidia chip. On the desktop end, many small form factor PCs still use Nvidia onboard. I recently bought a small Acer desktop with an Nvidia chip on the board.

We are not the mass market. We are the few. We buy the 5800s of the world. However, most do not. In the general market Nvidia is dominating.

 

[Q-BZ]

These threads have really gone off the deep end with FUD, conspiracy theory, and everything else out of the fanboy toolbox.

I don't know what to make of this. That's the most honest statement I know how to make but I've really had a good laugh at a number of the blatant ATI partisans around here pretty much having a field day while real facts...good or bad...continue to be in stark supply.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I would think the recent actions by Nvidia just confirms they're essentially a software company that can create hardware and have somebody else mass produce them.

Nah, they are a chip R&D company, and they are very good at said chip design. Their software simply supports their chip designs.

They don't do any of their own manufacturing of chips or boards though, and never have. it would be advisable for them to shy away from ever doing any of their own manufacturing, as that will likely sink them.

Nvidia, stick to what you do best.

Ironically, back before 3DFX bought STB, STB tried to sell itself to Nvidia, but they wanted nothing to do ih them. That was a smart move. Hopefully they remember this good decision and the fate of 3DFX. R&D companies usually just aren't good at manufacturing. Luckily for them there are plenty of contract manufacturers.

What I see as the good thing for Nvidia in all of this is that they are using a contract manufacturer to produce the boards they just launched. For them, this implies not much more effort outside of the normal support they have to provide AIBs. There will be some extra work in procurement, contract work and tech support, but I don't think this is enough to distract or derail them from their main focus of designing chips.

If they do this right, it could be ingeniuos. Its bringing their own branded products to the end user market, with very little risk, as they are only paying a contract manufacturer to do it, unlike 3DFX trying to bring it in house.

 

[Topweasel]

Tell me if I am wrong, but several people mention that XFX went AMD and Nvidia dropped them. If I recall correctly XFX scrambled to AMD only after the heads up that some partners were not going to be allocated Fermi stock do to stock limitations.

Can't fault the manufacturer that only produces video cards from making a move to make sure it had video cards to sell. Now they may have made their lack of stock a self fulfilling prophecy, but considering how they treated BFG it was the smart move.

 

[kllrnohj]

Nah, they are a chip R&D company, and they are very good at said chip design. Their software simply supports their chip designs.

They don't do any of their own manufacturing of chips or boards though, and never have. it would be advisable for them to shy away from ever doing any of their own manufacturing, as that will likely sink them.

Nvidia, stick to what you do best.

Ironically, back before 3DFX bought STB, STB tried to sell itself to Nvidia, but they wanted nothing to do ih them. That was a smart move. Hopefully they remember this good decision and the fate of 3DFX. R&D companies usually just aren't good at manufacturing. Luckily for them there are plenty of contract manufacturers.

What I see as the good thing for Nvidia in all of this is that they are using a contract manufacturer to produce the boards they just launched. For them, this implies not much more effort outside of the normal support they have to provide AIBs. There will be some extra work in procurement, contract work and tech support, but I don't think this is enough to distract or derail them from their main focus of designing chips.

If they do this right, it could be ingeniuos. Its bringing their own branded products to the end user market, with very little risk, as they are only paying a contract manufacturer to do it, unlike 3DFX trying to bring it in house.

DX11 is a drop in the bucket compared to the whole market. Remember, we on this forum make up a tiny portion.

No, DX11 is what is *currently* selling. Again, you are looking at cards that sold one, two, three, or even four years ago as if that matters. It doesn't. DX11 is a drop in the bucket of the current user base, but it makes up a *huge* chunk of the market of cards that are *currently* selling.

Those "old" video cards still sell a ton. A simple search on Bestbuy.com came up with 23 different cards from Nvidia priced at $100 or less. 8400s, 240s, 210s. While these may not be what we consider top end cards, they carry plenty of margin for the company and still sell incredibly well. In addition these types of cards are extremely popular with OEMS as they can say they have a dedicated video card with 512mb ram for little extra cost.

Those cards aren't being made anymore. They aren't selling a ton of those, those are leftover from a year or two ago. That just shows how little of those are sold at Bestbuy.

On board, I was mainly referring to laptops. Nvidia has a huge presence in that market and simply looking at Dell's or Gateway's website shows a large amount of models with an Nvidia chip. On the desktop end, many small form factor PCs still use Nvidia onboard. I recently bought a small Acer desktop with an Nvidia chip on the board.

Just so we're clear, how does that have anything to do with the current topic? (Which, if you need a refresher, would be XFX getting the boot from Nvidia and what it means for other AIBs).

Also, Intel owns that market.

We are not the mass market. We are the few. We buy the 5800s of the world. However, most do not. In the general market Nvidia is dominating.

In the market that plays games (hey, you brought up the steam numbers), AMD is whooping Nvidia's ass. That is the market that matters to AIBs.

 

[kllrnohj]

Stupid lack of edit...

Nah, they are a chip R&D company, and they are very good at said chip design. Their software simply supports their chip designs.

They don't do any of their own manufacturing of chips or boards though, and never have. it would be advisable for them to shy away from ever doing any of their own manufacturing, as that will likely sink them.

Nvidia, stick to what you do best.

Actually, I think Nvidia has a lot more software engineers than hardware ones. They really are a software company.

Also, the CEO of Nvidia has said the same thing, that they are a software company: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20091023135737_Nvidia_CEO_We_Are_Software_Company.html (not that that means much, just saying )

 

[bmorg003]

I just don't see how competing with your AIB partners is a "good/smart" move, whether you buy your own manufacturing like 3DFX did, or contract it out like Nvidia is doing. Leveraging the AIBs and focusing on R&D is what really helped Nvidia beat 3DFX, why move into retail and piss-off your AIB partners now? As the GPU gets integrated, the AIBs already see tough times ahead. Why not leverage PhysX and TWIMTBP (The Way It's Meant To Be Played) Program and move into add-in PhysX accelerator boards (that work with AMD/Intel GPUs) with AIBs, or Partner with VIA to integrate a graphics core in their CPUs as the low-end market is absorbed into the CPU, or push Tegra into the retail slate (iPad) market (if you can't find an AIB/Manufacturing Partner). I just don't see this as a smart move, it doesn't expand their product-line/market share, it only allows them to possibly reap more profits from their existing product base (at the expense of their AIBs) while adding more complexity to the management/support structure (retail sales) and possibly taking resources from R&D. While this is not exactly the same circumstances as 3DFX, there are some very "scarily" similar parallels that can be drawn, hopefully (for Nvidia) it won't play out the same way it did for 3DFX.

 

[MrLonghair]

Either I'm mistaking XFX for other formerly Nvidia card partners that got screwed by them or it went like this:

1) XFX decided to roll out (then) ATI cards
2) Time passes and allocation-screwing happens
3) XFX gets the boot

 

[MrLonghair]

hopefully (for Nvidia) it won't play out the same way it did for 3DFX.

Nvidia would need to buy themselves and commit crimes like Creative Labs did to the Aureal3D folks in order to die like 3DFX did.

 

[Semantics]

Would anyone even really but XFX 4xx cards, most people end up buying ones with better coolers from gigabyte or msi or with non reference pbc's. Esp dealing with the 460 release in which nvidia allowed board partners the freedom to use 3rd party pbc's right away instead of holding them for awhile like usual. Double lifetime warranty is only nice when i wanted to ditch the card on ebay else just need a 3-4 year warranty when most cards would break down anyways to cover my bases. Step up program is nice but i thought XFX ditched theirs long time ago and it still leaves us with Evga

 

[burpnrun]

I've bought XFX cards for quite a while now, for personal use. They replaced 3 x Nvidia 8600/8800 "bumpgate" cards without question, and promptly. Contrast this with other firms that just give you the run around, even after being forced to 'fess up to the Nvidia problem. Ever try to get a return authorization from Asus?

The last two cards I purchased from XFX were ATI/AMD 4770 and 5770 models. I gladly pay a slight premium to get that type of insurance.

I also will NOT buy any more Nvidia cards. Period. Forever. Can't stand the liars. And this includes my firm, that used to buy maybe 2-3 Quattro-line cards a year. No more. Nvidia is forbidden to be on our list of acceptable vendors.

Personally, I think this is just the early stages of Nvidia flushing itself down the toilet or, at best, morphing into a small niche player. Hubris and despicable treatment of customers (retail and AIBs) catches up to you sooner or later.

 

[stealthy123]

who the hell does Nvidia think they are, Intel?

 

[Runningflame570]

In the general market Nvidia is dominating.

Like hell they are. They've been bleeding marketshare all over the place and AMD and Intel are benefiting at their expense.

Fermi has been a fricking disaster for them and will continue to be so in the long-term as you can't just turn around and roll out an entirely new architecture overnight. These things take time and while Nvidia can probably afford it, they would have been much happier if they didn't have to endure all of this.

 

[Meeho]

Posts like this make me laugh. Nvidia is the largest graphics chip supplier in the world.

No, Intel is.

The partners have far more to lose than Nvidia.

No, they don't. They have much to lose, but at least have another option to go to.

Just look at the latest steam survey. Nvidia powers almost 60% of all machines compared to 33% for AMD.

As others have said, current sales are somewhat different.

Losing Nvidia is a big loss for XFX.

Yeah, those damn 5xxx series cards are so unprofitable...oh, wait!

Also, the bulk of profits doesn't come from the high end cards we all love here. The money is in the midrange/lowend/onboard video. Nvidia dominates here. Their $100 ranged videocards sell like hotcakes to those who bought a $400 pc with an Intel video chip.

Low and midrange is exactly where Nvidia failed big time. GTX460 changed that slightly, but only for consumers. It is still a terrible card for Nvidia, as many have stated. They are hardly making money from it, if at all. Their low end is still terrible.

Comparing this to 3DFX isn't fair either. 3DFX didn't have a robust line like Nvidia. All the company had to go on was it's enthusiast segment. Nvidia is has a much larger product line and many more channels to sell through. 3dfx didn't even offer an onboard solution. They were 100% addin.

3dfx analogy makes sense. There are many similarities.

 

[chrisTian]

How much XFX did sell in the US out of all nV partners in recent years ? What presence does XFX hold outside US ? Let the numbers talk & not your emotions.
This decision affects only US buyers, loyal to XFX & nVidia. For the rest of the world has little impact, since the XFX presence is not considerable.
Also this is a gesture of force out of nV part to punish one of their resellers who ditched them in sore times. XFX watched their back during wavy times, so when Fermi started paying off, the payback came for their move. Maybe if XFX would have paid some royalties to nV before going the ATi way, this wouldn't have happened. We'll have to wait & see what happens to other AIBs, whether their strategies change regarding selling nV cards.

 

[DeathPrincess]

How much XFX did sell in the US out of all nV partners in recent years ? What presence does XFX hold outside US ? Let the numbers talk & not your emotions.
This decision affects only US buyers, loyal to XFX & nVidia. For the rest of the world has little impact, since the XFX presence is not considerable.
Also this is a gesture of force out of nV part to punish one of their resellers who ditched them in sore times. XFX watched their back during wavy times, so when Fermi started paying off, the payback came for their move. Maybe if XFX would have paid some royalties to nV before going the ATi way, this wouldn't have happened. We'll have to wait & see what happens to other AIBs, whether their strategies change regarding selling nV cards.

I'm in europe and theres loads of XFX branded cards sold here. The 260s I have are all XFX.

 

[Falling Anvil]

I'm in europe and theres loads of XFX branded cards sold here. The 260s I have are all XFX.

Yeah what Chris said is not true at all, XFX was huge in places like Singapore as late as a bit over a year ago(I helped around with a Singaporean friend on some computer stuff back then). In fact XFX is pretty big in Asia all around, this are based in Hong Kong after all.